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Jack B Nimble posted:I bought one of these when covid hit: Compared to NSA wasters Purpleheart's stuff has heavier blade presence (SG further from the cross) but cost/durability wise is pretty on par.
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May 4, 2022 20:26
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Wasn't sure whether to post in this thread or the martial arts one, but here goes: I do kendo, a Japanese fencing martial art using a bamboo sword called a "shinai". Been doing it for about 17 years (with a ~3 year stop in the middle), currently hold a 4th dan and I've competed in international competitions including the European and world championships. If anyone has anything they might be wondering about kendo, I'll be more than happy to answer. This is a nice video about fencers trying kendo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8YW4M0Csfo Seems like there quite a bit that's the same (mostly in the more general sense which also applies to martial arts or even fighting videogames, but also things regarding distance etc.), but all the while there's quite a bit that's very different. I've taught some people who came over from fencing and there's quite a few habits that are hard to break.
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May 19, 2022 13:19
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kiminewt posted:I've taught some people who came over from fencing and there's quite a few habits that are hard to break. Like what?
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May 19, 2022 15:43
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Cessna posted:Like what? Particularly the footwork and the fact that it's very important to be head-on towards your opponents in kendo, rather than standing with one side closer to the opponent. Being a bit more two-dimensional with your movement also takes some getting used to. That said, I never taught people who did sabre so that might be more similar.
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May 19, 2022 18:50
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In my experience (5th dan, 25 years or so), fencers pick it up faster than your average person. The squared off stance takes a bit of time, but they'll have more body awareness in general and understand distance and timing. Mind you, the relatively small sample have all been Epeeist, which is in my experience much closer to kendo in terms of how you fight. Sabreurs, I wouldn't touch them with a long stick  . (Just about everything saber does is different).I also picked up fencing/epee about 18 months ago and have found the transition relatively easy. By far the biggest issue is extending the arm before moving, Timing and opportunity in Epee is very very similar to kendo. The mechanics are way more delicate and it's very hard to progress without private lessons with the coach.
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May 20, 2022 02:58
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That's interesting. None of the fencers I taught ever really lasted too long, so it didn't reach the point where things like timing or tactics really come into play. In general people (at least adults) who do other sports inevitably pick up things faster, especially compared to the usual batch of anime/sword nerds we get.
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May 20, 2022 06:03
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Do you find that new trainees take a while to get used to the idea of hitting someone with their shinai? One of the things I find more difficult to teach a new fencer is to confidently hit their opponent, it feels like it takes some people a long time to realise that it won't hurt and to stop pulling their attacks.
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May 20, 2022 11:21
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Generally - no. Some might take a week or two, but for the most part they get used to it quick. They hit and see us get hit hundreds of time, though I guess that's the same in fencing. There are some rare cases of this lingering further, but even in those it passes in a month or two. There is a separate issue with beginners hitting way too hard, before they know the proper way to hit. Usually you'd shrug it off because you wouldn't want to cause the situation as above, and just teach them the proper way promptly.
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May 20, 2022 16:58
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Sabreurs, I wouldn't touch them with a long stick I don't think it's THAT different. I do sabre and foil - the same principles of distance, footwork, and timing apply. Sure, there are differences, but it's not like comparing football and swimming.
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May 21, 2022 18:48
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kiminewt posted:Wasn't sure whether to post in this thread or the martial arts one, but here goes: I'm watching the video and want to try kendo now. The structure and instructors are really nice in explaining the sport well. Do you get mad calluses on your feet from the sliding motion? Is there an equivalent to the fencing lunge, i.e. a finishing body motion that gives you more distance in a single action than a step, but at the cost of needing to recover posture to regain normal mobility afterwards? I do feel like they missed the mark a bit in choosing 3 epeeists for the piece, since a lot of epee is about stabbing rather than cutting and has no priority. The concept as they explain it of unity in mind, body and sword to make a scoring hit resonates with me as a foilist because it feels a lot like our concept of priority - I'd be really interested to see what would happen if they had used sabreurs instead. Slashing weapon, really fast footwork, and winning or losing the point often depends on announcing to the ref (and your opponent) through posture, action and timing that you are indeed planning to make a hit. Plenty of yelling too of course  I think I had to explain isoku itto to a newbie the other week, and the concept of breaking the middle also feels familiar. But how good does your form need to be to score - is the threshold affected by your opponent or your own skill level? [edit] Now I'm watching the other one where they swap roles - I don't know how much practise was edited out, but the kendoka are picking up good fencing form impressively quickly. Crazy Achmed fucked around with this message at 12:42 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 12:25
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Yeah you get pretty rough skin. When I teach beginners they complain about it a lot but it's forgotten within a month. There are two major footwork "types" in kendo, the first is suriashi which is the sliding footwork, mostly used for moving around (adjusting distance, the "zanshin" movement after a strike..) and rarely for some strikes. The other is fumikomi, which is similar to the lunge you describe. The back foot pushes and you jump forward with the forward foot, though you immediately bring the back foot in front as soon as the front one lands. Whether you "break" your posture when lunging kinda depends on how you were taught, but generally yes - to varying degrees. This is how 99% of strikes are made (with the characteristic "stomping" sound) . Regarding the scoring, generally if the levels of the two competitors aren't equal you would judge by the highest one (or at least the level that the tournament is supposed to be in, but this is at the discretion of the judges - there are usually three in a match). This could be confusing for beginners as points that would count against one opponent won't count against another, but this quickly goes away once you reach the Dan levels (black belt) so it's really mostly a beginner concern. kiminewt fucked around with this message at 14:55 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 14:49
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Crazy Achmed posted:
I'd argue it's the other way around. The RoW makes foil/sabre very different concepts than kendo. Sure, obviously you need to hit correctly, with correct posture etc, but everything up to that is extremely similar to epee. The way I set up attacks in epee is very similar to what I do in kendo and I have largely been able to apply my kendo timing to epee. kiminewt posted:
Fumikomi refers to the stomping action of the front foot. Fumikiri is the pushing action with the rear foot and is a better comparable to the lunge in fencing.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:18
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ImplicitAssembler posted:I'd argue it's the other way around. The RoW makes foil/sabre very different concepts than kendo. Sure, obviously you need to hit correctly, with correct posture etc, but everything up to that is extremely similar to epee. The way I set up attacks in epee is very similar to what I do in kendo and I have largely been able to apply my kendo timing to epee. E: but I havent done kendo and you have, so I won't argue there. Just commenting from the outside. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:34 on Jun 3, 2022 |
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Jun 3, 2022 18:28
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Ok, let me put it in a different way: The actions of the opponent are largely irrelevant when it comes to judging points in kendo. If you hit first (with sufficient quality), it's your point. So, yes, there's quality requirements, but the actions of the opponent aren't a major issue.* *There's a bunch of caveats to this, but not really relevant to the concepts of this topic.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:39
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I dunno, I get told all the drat time "your attack didn't really look like an attack, their point" in sabre.
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Jun 3, 2022 20:44
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I think you're both right in different ways, the setup and timing seems very epee. And you're saying in the case of both kendoka having good form etc it's hit first rather than start the attack first? On the other hand, yeah, having to signal your target and the concept of unity also seems very RoW. I guess I'll have to try it out and feel it for myself
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Jun 3, 2022 23:48
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Crazy Achmed posted:I think you're both right in different ways, the setup and timing seems very epee. And you're saying in the case of both kendoka having good form etc it's hit first rather than start the attack first? Yes. A very common type of attack is what we call 'debana', which is essentially the counter-attack of kendo. Essentially there's 3 timings in kendo: - Just before the opponent start to move. - Just as they're starting the attack (counter) - Middle of the attack (parry-riposte) It's simplifying the concepts a fair bit. Now at higher levels, there's an argument that even if you do a debana attack (or counter technique), it's because you set it up and as such *you* started the attack. quote:On the other hand, yeah, having to signal your target and the concept of unity also seems very RoW. Just to make clear: You don't have to signal the target beforehand. ImplicitAssembler fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 02:35
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Huh, yeah, that's a very interesting question - is it initiation to set up a counter-attack? Or is the setup preparation? I think I would say no since a counter is by definition not an attack, but i also think that the timing makes it clear that the counter was successful and your opponent's attack failed.
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Jun 4, 2022 05:11
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But if you intentionally force an opponent to attack, so that you can counter it, who is really attacking first?
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Jun 4, 2022 06:17
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Fumikomi refers to the stomping action of the front foot. Fumikiri is the pushing action with the rear foot and is a better comparable to the lunge in fencing. I'm aware, but they're usually bunched together, at least here (Europe). I don't think I've heard people refer to fumikiri as something separate except in videos and books. As for your discussion, yeah in higher levels there aren't many attacks (be they counter-, debana, whatever) that aren't (in the greater context of the fight) initiated by the attacker. But it's not a necessity. I've had a few matches where the opponent immediately did Men once hajime was called, and I instinctively did kaeshi do. The extra distance gives you sufficient response time. In those cases it was definitely not initiated by me. Heck, most of the time I had no idea what happened when I saw the flags go up, it was an automatic blur. On a personal note, I has a tournament last weekend that ended in disappointment, after having trained for it for a long time. Two loses, one draw and a win - plus my team lost in the pools. Usually these kinda loses give a lot of motivation (my coach gave me a long list of things to work on) but because I'm injured and can't work on them right away I've withdrawn to a bit of a malajse.
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Jun 4, 2022 06:28
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I mean I'll take it as a judging method over so many of the HEMA longsword rulesets that reward suicidal neglect of defense and constant doubles.
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Jun 4, 2022 06:42
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kiminewt posted:I'm aware, but they're usually bunched together, at least here (Europe). I don't think I've heard people refer to fumikiri as something separate except in videos and books. Right, but you can do fumikomi on the spot (oji-waza) or going backwards (hiki-waza) and sometimes you don't need to do it at all. Fumikomi , as a part of the basic tobikomi-men is a byproduct of A: trying to achieve kikentai and B: continuing the forward momentum. It's certainly a separate concept here (Vancouver and I believe on the West Coast in general) and I've heard it several times in Japan as well. quote:On a personal note, I has a tournament last weekend that ended in disappointment, after having trained for it for a long time. Two loses, one draw and a win - plus my team lost in the pools. Usually these kinda loses give a lot of motivation (my coach gave me a long list of things to work on) but because I'm injured and can't work on them right away I've withdrawn to a bit of a malajse. I assume this was the Europeans?. The new rules has made it far more enjoyable to watch. Both the EKC and WKC used to be dreadful with uber-defensive play and hours spent in tsubazeriai. Rukas, the runner-up used to be one of 'my' students many moons ago. Despite being older and slower I still compete and will hopefully continue to do so, although I my travel limit is now 3 hours driving. You have to ask yourself what you want out of it. Sure, we all want to win, but most people that isn't a realistic outcome. I've long know that I was decent, but never had the talent to compete with the top. A good draw would maybe get me to the semis, most likely quarters, before I ran into a 'name'. (We never have any pools here, it's straight to elimination). So, my primary objective is now to perform to best of my ability. Win/lose is kinda secondary, but my point is that if you performed to a large extent, with your own kendo, on your own terms, then you should be, if not happy, then at least content with the outcome. My last EKC (Helsinki 2008?) was dreadful and I very much let the situation get to me and tried *way* too hard. Even the 'easy' opponent in my group, which I would have walked all over on a regular day was a giant battle to get a single scrappy point. I was sooo pissed of with myself. All that training and preparation thrown out the window. I had in advance signed up to do my 4th dan exam the same afternoon and my initial reaction was to skip it, but since I've already paid for it, I went 'gently caress it'. Left my bokuto behind, because I surely wouldn't need them...and I absolutely murdered my opponents and had to sprint back to get my bokuto for the kata. Anyway! Heal up. Don't stop competing, but at least for now, approach them with a "I just want to do my kendo" mindset and you'll find it far more beneficial in the long run rather than focusing on 'winning' and probably also a lot more enjoyable. If you then later, find that you still have one more major tournament left in you then change gears and put in the hours, etc.
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Jun 4, 2022 07:37
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Regarding fumikomi, you're right. Most of the time it is bunched together though, and even if they emphasise the jump rather than the landing part they still call it "fumikomi", so I think it's just a semantic thing. I agree, the new rules makes the matches a lot more fun to watch (past three tournaments I was in were like that) and it seems like they will keep it around in some form. It also makes matches much more tiring. To those unfamiliar with kendo, the new rules basically stipulate that you cannot stay in "tsuba-zeriai", which is a position where you are in very close quarters with your opponents, for more than "one breathe". Basically you have to either act or separate. In past high-level tournaments people would stick to eachother either to allow themselves to rest or to waste time (kendo matches are timed so if you are leading 1-0 you could win just by wasting the rest of the time). This made for some unsportsman-like behaviour and also just plain boring matches, especially when the stakes are high. As for the competition - I have zero intentions of stopping to compete. For one thing, it is my favourite thing in the whole world (even if it hurts sometimes), and I feel like even though I'm quite old (29) I still have a ways to go with my competitive kendo and especially with my team. This particular competition was just a bit of a shock because I prepared fairly well for it, and had to work extra hard because of a string of debilitating injuries - only to get worse results than last time. So I'm taking a week's rest which I haven't done in a very long time, and letting my injuries fully heal. I have no delusions about being able to win the Europeans. I've practised with the current champion and I know the gulf between our abilities, and the age difference means that I am past my peak while many incredibly strong people are reaching theirs. So, like you I just want to perform at my best and see how far I can go. I do have a ways to go until the sting of a loss isn't wholly depressing, and I'm working on that - but usually it only serves to motivate me to work harder.
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Jun 4, 2022 10:39
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ImplicitAssembler posted:But if you intentionally force an opponent to attack, so that you can counter it, who is really attacking first? Sort of! The way I've been told to interpret it for fencing refereeing, though, is that in that moment, you are not attacking *yet* but instead making a provocation or invitation for your opponent to launch a (predictable) attack. Just because you might be in control of the mental game doesn't make their attack any less of an attack because if they hit you through your counter, then your counter wasn't much good. The logic here is dependent on that last part, i.e. assuming that a good counterattack must not be a double/simultaneous hit. Do you have the same idea in kendo, and how much leeway/time between strikes is allowed to call simultaneous? I'm always having my rear end handed to me in epee and sabre once my opponent realises that I'm very used to foil's 300ms.
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Jun 5, 2022 14:09
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ImplicitAssembler posted:But if you intentionally force an opponent to attack, so that you can counter it, who is really attacking first? The person who attacks first is attacking first. Just because it was an ill-advised attack provoked by an action doesn't make it less of an attack. But also that is a meaningless question in epee. E: an attack by second intention is slightly different, in that I can attack trying to provoke a specific action, which I can then counter. I am still attacking, however. I would not call, for instance, a nonthreatening move into range or opening my guard an attack, even if my intent is to provoke a response that I intend to take advantage of. That is merely positioning and distance control. E2: though yes, that timing issue does make it seem that at least kendo shares some of that timing with epee. What is the window to call for simultaneous hits? Or what is my obligation to defend? Hypothetically, if I provoke an attack and land a hit prior to my opponent's hit, how much earlier do I have to land it to be my provocation via "debana" (hopefully using that right) and not just a simultaneous attack and suicidal neglect of defense? Or is that referee discretion? E3: and just making sure, but "hit" in this case always has the caveat of "hit in a way that the referee interprets it as an attack",right? If A provokes an attack, B attacks, and then A flails around in a way that lands a hit on B first but doesnt have sufficient intention/criteria to be an attack, and B hits A late but with that criteria met, it is B's point, yes? Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 14:34 on Jun 5, 2022 |
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Jun 5, 2022 14:16
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Yeah, I think it comes down to the definition of "attack". We use a narrow one where it's simply an attempt to bring the blade to the target, but I get the idea that someone might want to use a wider definition where it also includes control of the situation to facilitate bringing the blade correctly to target. Yeah it's probably just a matter of semantics, but enjoying good-natured discussion around this is one of the things i like about fencing and related sword activities.
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Jun 6, 2022 12:14
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I also had the realization that I'm largely objecting to a referee saying "this attack was sufficient to be an attack" as being similar to epee, but there IS such a judge in epee: the electric weapon mechanism. A touch is insufficient: it must be a touch from angles appropriate to trigger the light, as well as with enough force to do so, and for long enough. But yes, even outside of that, I dont think a deliberate action to invite an expected action is an attack.
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Jun 6, 2022 12:36
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guess whos back on his bull poo poo after a broken back + covid re row similarities to kendo and hema, i think that fencing as a sport is past the point where we can consider the term "attack" as an abstraction of what it was when it was an actual martial art meant for combat. the definition of what an attack is in foil, for example, hasn't changed much rules-wise over time, but referee consensus + FIE electronic timing changes (read the 2004 changes) really changed the way fencing is done. ofc this goes back to those folks online that call olympic fencing "fake" and "not real". it's a sport you nerds! we need all these stupid rules because it's an organized sport. i still feel that HEMA is trying to reinvent the wheel in this regard. if the community wants to move on and make it become an actual sport, they will have to make concessions because the last thing you want in a sport is a bunch of dead or maimed people or waste more than 10 seconds explaining an action in a tournament because nobody really understands the rules - I'M LOOKING AT YOU, SABRE PRE 1988
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Jun 6, 2022 21:31
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Ravenfood posted:The person who attacks first is attacking first. Just because it was an ill-advised attack provoked by an action doesn't make it less of an attack. It's semantics, mostly..however, at higher grades it becomes very important to be able (and understand how) to control the opponent in such a manner. At higher level examinations (for a higher rank), hitting first is less important than creating and controlling the opportunity, similarly as striking just purely based on speed, without reason, will result in a failure. As for simultaneous hit, they don't officially exist. Someone always hits first. However, in very close call, the person who appeared to initiate the attack will likely get the call. Finally, yes a hit has to be an obvious attack. It has be be carried out with correct technique and intention (and to some extent, reason). A lot of this is what makes kendo quite inapprehensible for the outsider...and frankly, that's just fine. The philosophical aspect of kendo is what makes it attractive to most of it's practioners
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Jun 6, 2022 22:00
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ImplicitAssembler posted:The philosophical aspect of kendo is what makes it attractive to most of it's practioners i was thinking about this after hitting the reply button. traditional eastern martial arts are heavily influenced by buddhism, which is SUPER COOL, but translating that to a sport and then an organized tournament format can be quite difficult
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Jun 6, 2022 22:15
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Future Days posted:i was thinking about this after hitting the reply button. traditional eastern martial arts are heavily influenced by buddhism, which is SUPER COOL, but translating that to a sport and then an organized tournament format can be quite difficult This is Daoism erasure, sir. Edit cause I should be less flip : this is like saying that HEMA is influenced by Christianity in that it's simultaneously trivially true and also an absolutely bonkers statement. Obviously there are many effects and influences between a given martial art and a major religion it grew up around, but if you try and say that it's a causative explanation full stop you're at best over-simplifying to the point of being wrong and at worst you're on the way to saying something super racist. Also, Buddhism isn't the only traditional East Asian religion and arguably not even that influential compared to some others, e.g. Daoism. Xiahou Dun fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jun 6, 2022 |
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Jun 6, 2022 22:17
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I should clarify that: Most people start because the gear looks cool and you can pretend to be a samurai: People who stay, still thinks the gear looks cool (and pretends to be samurai) but stick with it because of the individual growth that it offers. Even as your physical abilities start to decline, the mental side of it will continue to grow and you'll still be able to practice (and beat) younger/faster people. My previous teacher passed away at 76 and practiced up until a few weeks before his death and I still couldn't touch him. His understand of how to make people move/react along with a complete lack of fear of being hit made him near impossible to hit.
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Jun 6, 2022 22:26
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ImplicitAssembler posted:It's semantics, mostly..however, at higher grades it becomes very important to be able (and understand how) to control the opponent in such a manner. At higher level examinations (for a higher rank), hitting first is less important than creating and controlling the opportunity, similarly as striking just purely based on speed, without reason, will result in a failure. But the way you're describing it, it sounds like a judge can say "you didnt control the distance enough so no point" rather than making the success or failure of that element part and parcel of being able to land a point without being hit in return.
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Jun 6, 2022 23:24
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Future Days posted:guess whos back on his bull poo poo after a broken back + covid Different creatures entirely. Oly sport fencing is abstracted from actual martial swordplay by both its rules and its gear. Nothing wrong with that, it's a sport and a drat good one. HEMA is looking to recreate martial arts from periods where weapons were used in earnest. Very different motivations, gear, and methodology. Rulesets for fencing competitively within that paradigm are necessarily more difficult to formulate without creating situations where playing to the rules warps the art, and nobody reliably agrees on which direction it's okay to bend in beyond 'nobody gets killed'.
Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 08:08 on Jun 7, 2022 |
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Jun 7, 2022 07:52
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This is fairly interesting video about the history of kendo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP_NwitaquM
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Jun 13, 2022 05:37
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Hi thread, I took a French/Sport Fencing 101 class like 5-7 years ago. It was fun and I quickly bought my whole kit, but didn't stick with the hobby very long after that. Since then my lame, glove, mask and foil have sat in their bag in my closet and hasn't seen the light of day. Then about 2 months ago a coworker who does HEMA got me to sign up for their Longsword 101 class and it's been pretty fun. Fortunately I'm able to recycle my old mask, but the lame & glove aren't strong enough, and obviously the foil isn't applicable. The coach at the HEMA club said they don't have any use for my old blade, so I'm not sure what to do with it. I reached out to my old fencing club this morning asking if I could donate it but haven't heard back yet -- they haven't been active on social media since last July, I don't even know if they're still in business. To my untrained eye I would say it's in very rough shape:  All 4 sides on the lower ~quarter of the blade are about that rusty, but the upper 3/4 aren't nearly as bad. Maybe someone who knows how to care for it could "fix" it, I have no idea. Couldn't guess if I paid $50, $100, $150 for it and can't find the receipt in my email, but I assume I bought it from Absolute Fencing as that's the brand of the bag & mask I own. Assuming the fencing club is both still in business and doesn't want it, anyone know what I can do with it? I'm in the US and would gladily give it to a goon [you pay shipping]. The HEMA coach said I could use it for their side-sword class, but at this point I have little desire to branch out from longsword just because learning 1 weapon is challenging enough
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Jul 8, 2022 15:25
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Sab669 posted:To my untrained eye I would say it's in very rough shape: Foils are finicky little assholes compared to the noble sabre; they require a lot more upkeep and malfunction more often. A sabre is just a metal stick - touch your opponent's shiny parts with it and it completes the circuit easily. In contrast the foil has that little button on the end that is held in with impossibly tiny little screws, sitting a tiny well that accumulates filth and sweat and must be swabbed out with alcohol and q-tips in order to work properly. The end needs taped and re-taped, and the skinny little wire that connects the thing seems to break whenever the foil flexes, and it flexes on every single touch. I think I spent my first year doing foil bothered by weapons that failed until I broke down and spent too much money on decent blades - which still need cleaned, taped, and talked to in a gentle voice in order to work properly. If you aren't worried about using that blade for anything other than practice, I'd scrub the rust off with some fine-grain steel wool and WD40. But, seriously, you probably should consider just ditching it. Blades can and do snap; a modern blade is made with a process (maraging) so that it won't snap into a jagged edge that can go through FIE gear and hurt someone, but - well, with an older blade and non-FIE gear, you might end up with a stab wound and a trip to a hospital. Once you've cleaned it, look at the base of the blade for a stamp. It SHOULD be stamped with a mark from the manufacturer, country of origin, what type of socket/connector it has, and year it was produced - and the year it was made. If it's pre-2000 and has a "bayonet plug" - an old "square" connector - don't bother, you can't use those anymore (edit: except in small villages in the UK, apparently). Also, the blade is going to be unsafe due to age and different manufacturing. And if it's pre-1982 (your blade probably isn't that old, but for anyone else reading this) - just destroy the drat thing. In tl;dr terms in 1982 a Soviet athlete named Vladimir Smirnov was killed when a then-legal steel blade snapped; since then those old blades have been aggressively banned. If you're looking to get back into the sport, check out thefencingpost.com to order gear. I buy pretty much all of my stuff from them. I recommend All Star/Uhlmann stuff - they're the same company (the Uhlmann stuff is cut a bit differently) and they're a good midpoint between "cheap/beginner crap" and "extremely expensive pro- level stuff." Fencing Post sells good new All Star foils for under $100: https://thefencingpost.com/foil-complete-electric-allstar-ecostar-all-allstar-parts/ Linea blades are a bit less, but don't last as long - they're good for beginner practice: https://thefencingpost.com/foil-complete-electric-stm-colored-blade/ Cessna fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:31
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I appreciate the effort post but you definitely misread it  I am looking to get it out of my house, but I didn't want to just chuck it in the garbage.It's not an electric one you'd be able to use in tournaments, just a regular old practice one. e; although re-reading mine I can see how it could've been worded more clearly in a few spots Sab669 fucked around with this message at 18:44 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:41
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Sab669 posted:I appreciate the effort post but you definitely misread it Okay, cool - so it's an older (practice) foil with a blunt tip? In that case most of that advice still applies. Clean it with fine steel wool and WD-40 to get the rust off, and check to see if there's a stamp on the base/near the grip to see if it's too old to use safely. Cessna fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:51
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Liquid Communism posted:I mean I'll take it as a judging method over so many of the HEMA longsword rulesets that reward suicidal neglect of defense and constant doubles. Token HEMAist here. I went to Fight Camp and fought under a ruleset which didn't result in that. And that was with any weapon. I don't do longsword, but I loved using a katana with everything I know and messing with people. I probably convinced a few longsword experts that a katana is better than a longsword. It's not, it's just different and most HEMAists have never fought a curved two-handed sword like that. I don't do longsword, I mostly look at different styles of Sabre and Broadsword. Xiahou Dun posted:This is Daoism erasure, sir. Something I've tried to explain to people is HEMA is influenced by Christianity in the same way as Eastern Martial Arts are influenced by Buddhism and other religions, but most HEMAists have also grown up in at least moderately-Christian cultures and finding the links is difficult for anything more complex than "It is un-Christian to kill somebody in a duel" and even then, that was one opinion of one guy living in England while Italy has a thriving duelling culture. I suspect that this was written in response to the Italian Duelling Culture being brought to England, but I don't have enough evidence to prove it. Liquid Communism posted:Different creatures entirely. Oly sport fencing is abstracted from actual martial swordplay by both its rules and its gear. Nothing wrong with that, it's a sport and a drat good one. From speaking to people who know about the transition from "real and deadly martial art" (scare quotes because it was never just that) to what we see in MOF now, it basically comes from an attempt to standardise the rulesets, then the emphasis on MOF as a game to train people for sword fights changed as people stopped carrying swords stopped as people stopped carrying swords. Now it is a sport, with some of the same key skills being useful for martial arts, depending exactly on the martial art. One of the best fencers of my club, who's unfortunately now quit, started at my club while also doing MOF at least once a week. M beat the entire club in King of the Hill twice. He was fighting in a way we weren't used to, as well as a much better sense of distance, timing and just how to move faster than anyone else in the club. M never managed to repeat this, because we got used to the weird bits of what he did. Then he started to learn our methods and got even better, but doesn't see the same success because he's playing the same game as everyone in the club. M had a great sense of the universals of fighting, I would assume he would have quickly picked up Kendo, or any other martial art. But it was especially fast with my club because we do broadsword. This tradition became Napoleonic era Sabre, then 19th Century British Sabre fencing, then eventually MOF. I can see MOFers doing some of the same things I do, including stuff in the manuals which most HEMAists don't do.  Look at the hand being thrown out behind the right fencer. That is in manuals, I don't have a source to hand, this was removed from the style before we get lots of images. But this is something in my manuals, seen lots of the best fencers do, both HEMA and MOF, so there's probably something to it. So I'm trying it more. To get back to the initial topic, tournaments You will never get universal agreement that the rules are good. I like the Fight Camp rules they had this year, but I see tournaments as an experience to help you learn. I'm not fighting in tournaments to win the medal, I'm doing it because it has judged fights and very good fencers. I don't exactly remember the ruleset, but here's what I remember 5 points if you hit the head, or thrust the body 4 points if you cut the body, or hit an arm 3 points if you hit the leg. If you hit someone and they manage to hit you within "one tempo" which is broadly, whatever everyone agrees that the afterblow was close enough, the subtract two from the points scored. This upset a lot of people, but we needed a ruleset that encourages "hit your opponent" and "Don't get hit" The whole point is we don't standardise the rules, because then we have rules we can game like MOF. Instead you learn the hypothetical "good fencing". We are aware of how many assumptions are built into this. Hazzard fucked around with this message at 09:31 on Aug 27, 2022 |
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Aug 27, 2022 08:22
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