|
Anyone know why two of the Div1 NACs next season are in the DC/VA area and stacked pretty close both location and time-wise to ROCs in the region? Or is this just an artifact of it being the first time I've ever really looked at the NAC schedule? e: vvv That's really cool. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Apr 16, 2015 |
#
¿
Apr 16, 2015 17:43
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 01:27 |
|
|
IM_DA_DECIDER posted:That link about the duel led me to this: On another note, mensur is insane.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 25, 2015 06:19
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:I'm curious, but why are fencing blades so easily breakable? Speaking with people who fence smallsword, rapier, or french foil, their weapons don't seem to break anywhere near as often as sport fencers. I mean, they're paying between $200 to $300, so there's that. Longswords can break from time to time, but it's mostly due to defect, problems with heat treatment, or using way too much force to begin with.
|
|
#
¿
May 4, 2015 16:24
|
|
|
I need those uhlmann tips oh my god.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 9, 2015 20:39
|
|
|
Do you not have any epeeists where you are or something? Barefoot toe touches seem ugly.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 24, 2015 10:01
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:What's so bad about reffing epee? I'd have thought that fretting over the minutiae of priority rules would be worse. e: Like, I'll watch high-level epee bouts for fun and the idea of reffing epee all day makes me cringe.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2015 04:56
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 29, 2015 19:42
|
|
|
Also, her partners need to suck it up and fence her normally regardless.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 5, 2015 17:41
|
|
|
10 Beers posted:I have, yeah. There are 3 in my area. One practices in a large park's baseball diamond on Sundays, one literally practices in the grassy area in one of the member's apartment complex, and one is called the Arcane Combat Society and they do large re-enactments.
|
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2015 16:51
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:Two classes a week isn't really a competitive track. Two nights a week is me just barely clinging to my C. The competitive track is probably more like three classes plus one or two private lessons a week. e: vvv  I hope 1/week and decent cross-training/home footwork is enough.
Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jul 31, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Jul 31, 2015 17:58
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:That sounds pretty expensive to me, but I guess it depends on what level you're wanting to take it to, and the quality of training you're paying for.  We also got to borrow jackets, lames, masks, and weapons from the club I guess, and had 2-3 working electric strips.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 1, 2015 01:11
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 18, 2015 13:28
|
|
|
BirdOfPlay posted:Does any of this involve bouncing? I have it on good authority bouncing is bad. And toe touches are really iffy for me against absence fencers because they're often posting and are all-in on the counter. You're really likely to get tagged on the way in, IMO. And I love toe touches. E: and yeah, I was describing epee advice, sorry if I wasn't clear. E2: you could also bait the counter and take the blade, probably into a fleche. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Aug 19, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Aug 19, 2015 23:27
|
|
|
From my very brief longsword ages ago, I used to do a 16 (?) cut drill that included a one-handed leaping attack where you basically let the sword slide out and grab it again near the pommel before the moment of impact. IIRC, it was called "springen" but a quick look through Google isn't turning up where that came from. It's been a while, and there weren't that many resources.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 22, 2015 18:31
|
|
|
Hit him in the air a lot until he figures out that that's not helping him. Or just retreat out of distance constantly with tells like that.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 18, 2015 03:07
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:Black carding all epee fencers: great idea or best idea ever? Black card half the field at random so NACs stop fencing rounds of 256 after the cutoff.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 25, 2015 05:34
|
|
|
I did not. Uh. Huh. Well, that's dumb as gently caress.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 25, 2015 17:11
|
|
|
I'm bad at preregistration deadlines. Got the NAC, missed the ROC in the same city and I'm sure as hell not paying $225 for an A2 ROC.  And yeah, going straight to the priority minute is far better than black cards. Anything is better than black cards.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 27, 2015 06:09
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:There's nothing wrong with epee So yeah, there's nothing wrong with epee! t  t
|
|
#
¿
Nov 10, 2015 21:36
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:Seriously though, aren't there some relatively catch-all clauses in the rules about refusal to fence your opponent and general unsportsmanlike behaviour? Or are they too strictly interpreted to apply in this sort of case? The IOC doesn't bitch about soccer matches spending 90 minutes to end 1-0, and its because there are chances in there. The same thing applies to epee.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2015 06:45
|
|
|
Epee is saved! The spectre of non-combativity can loom over us for a few more years at least! Sabreurs get some weirdass test changes to start lines though, plus 170ms lockouts up from 120s. Efb, and with more info to boot. I'm calling it a simul and awarding no points because I screamed louder while posting. : 
Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Nov 23, 2015 |
|
#
¿
Nov 23, 2015 18:09
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:Yeah I can't see myself calling that without judges or replay. If she's flinching a lot, have another student practice lunging at her repeatedly. Being hit with a foil is a pretty benign experience and being repeatedly lunged at might get her used to it.
|
|
#
¿
Mar 8, 2016 05:26
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:If you're gonna run a demo, have your best fighters fight. People with at least good posture and well-kept gear.
|
|
#
¿
Apr 27, 2016 03:07
|
|
|
Hazzard posted:Right now we only have broadswords and quarterstaves, so mixed weapon fighting doesn't work. An experienced spearman will beat a swordsman, at least in our club, every time. Getting past the point is not easy. As soon as the spearman knows that thrusting with one hand is a bad idea, they've won.
|
|
#
¿
May 16, 2016 16:32
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:I think the idea is that it makes the call simpler and less controversial; it's easier for the ref to make a call about someone not off the line quick enough than to call someone for a small "mistake" in their preparation. Thus makes the "go for simul, hope for an error" tactic less appealing. I suppose it could also make slow/no attacks off the line more viable since you won't be conceding an advance or two of momentum to your opponent.
|
|
#
¿
May 19, 2016 22:23
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:This is essentially a distance problem. Digging in and taking the parry isn't a problem in itself, the problem is that you're letting your opponent get close enough so that when they attack all you can do is panic parry and hope that they screw up. Keep the distance longer from the start, and do lots and lots of drills where parrying isn't an option so you have to beat the attack by distance alone. One drill that comes to mind (and there are many) is the advance lunge drill: two fencers, each with a weapon (bonus points for having pool noodles), no parrying, and you can only hit with an advance lunge. Repeat until your legs fall off then bump it up to double advance lunge.
|
|
#
¿
May 31, 2016 19:11
|
|
|
IM_DA_DECIDER posted:That doesn't really make sense to me unless you're talking about real life swordfights. In the latter case, either my opponent fearlessly attacks me and gets parry riposted, which is good, or he doesn't attack me at all, which is also good because nobody is getting stabbed. Also I can probably run faster than some dude carrying a sword.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 7, 2016 02:03
|
|
|
curious lump posted:It's certainly more about distance than anything else, but I'm going to 'fear' someone with a strong parry and riposte more than someone with strong blade control or lunges, because when you attack into someone, regardless of whether or not you are controlling distance or setting up for a second attack, you are exposing yourself dangerously by leaving your position of strength and losing your leverage and measure to bring yourself into an enemy. The second someone can control your incoming blade and counter attack, you are most likely hosed without recovering extremely quickly. (which you won't if you were trying to bring your blade into a second attack) If you're controlling distance, you're not exposing yourself because you, by definition, have the distance and the timing because you're the one choosing to initiate the action. You control both. Can you still be parried? Of course, but that's your mistake for attacking when you did. Set up your attack better. And since your opponent is focusing so much on the parry, you should be able to set it up well.
|
|
#
¿
Jun 8, 2016 02:12
|
|
|
Crazy Achmed posted:Foil is the obvious choice for pro-tier play, gotta keep your equip weight down so you can get that fast roll
|
|
#
¿
Jul 16, 2016 01:23
|
|
|
Siivola posted:I should point out that in kendo, an important part of a quality hit is running away from your opponent while screaming as hard as you can. If that's missing, the actual touch doesn't matter.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 6, 2016 10:20
|
|
|
Siivola posted:I think what draws a lot of people to HEMA is the promise of "real swordfighting" and for some reason we tend to take that to mean "killing dudes". And then we look at sabre fencing and post "this so wouldn't work on the street E:. Have fun with the foil! It's great.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 26, 2016 14:52
|
|
" in comments all over the internet while writing articles about how HEMA peeps should dress ~professionally~ because we're all sick of getting confused with SCA nerds. 
|
Ok. FIrst. Sport fencing is "real" fencing, so Easton can gently caress off with that. Second, if Easton want to turn epee into literally nothing but wrist-touches and the most defensive fencing you've ever seen, then we should implement the afterblow rule. It may be interesting to fence as a practice exercise or for fun, but it would be much less interesting to watch, not more. Every bout, especially those that added the "doubles = point lost" penalty, would end 1-0. Every one. Third. Epee is already the easiest to watch and understand as a spectator, and doubles are pretty rare at the higher level until one fencer is using them tactically because they're significantly up, and that's a very easy concept to show and explain to casual viewers. (The reason that making afterblows a penalty is loving stupid is that the fencer that is down would use them tactically to bring the score down to 0-0, btw). Fifth, you and Easton are basically describing how confusing sabre and foil are to newcomers (and they are) and then using it to suggest a change to epee, which is weird. Sixth, if we're going for "realism" as if its, for some reason better, why even put a time or score limit? gently caress it, first person to get a touch wins. If there's an afterblow, the competitors are both eliminated from the tournament. Finally, why did we even decide that the point is to emulate the very rare duels to the death? Like, poo poo, why is this even assumed to be a good goal? Are we trying to make it more interesting to watch? Then afterblow in epee would be a horrendous failure. What are we trying to do here? Because if you want to make a sport that will somehow produce duels like people see on TV, I don't see it ending well at all. Here's video of one of the last duels. Its boring as poo poo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e68nuAcSuWQ Here's video from the 1960 Olympic epee, so roughly contemporary. Its irritatingly edited, but it personally looks more interesting to watch than the above. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYNNxYZ8tT8 I know I've heard of there being a comparison video showing the same person doing sport fencing and duel fencing at a very high level, but I can't find it. I'll let you know. edit: Went and made it clear when I'm talking about Easton. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 27, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2016 01:04
|
|
|
KyloWinter posted:I never said it wasn't. What works in a duel, what works in practice for a duel, and what works in practice are different things. (See immediately how the sport fencers in the thread thought about how they'd abuse the "afterblows penalize both fencers rule" in a bout, because while I see where he's coming from, that rule doesn't work in the context of sport). Oh, and by the way, what works in a duel to first blood and what works in a duel to the death are different things too, and Matt Easton somehow keeps conflating those two, too. And I'm sure there were people sneering at people dueling to first blood about how that wasn't real, either. So epee can't be an effective training tool for duelists, because the emphasis on "first touch" means that a sport epeeist will happily flick to the wrist while diving chest-first onto a point because they'll win-by-lockout-timer. In a duel, that's, uh, dumb. And in practice, same thing: the consequences aren't there as much, so things like "there's a sword point in my face" aren't actually scary because its practice. Incidentally, this is why Point-in-Line gives you priority in foil and sabre: because if your opponent puts a sword tip in your face, you should probably do something about it. So, in summary. Sport fencing arose because trying to safely practice for duels results in strange quirks because practice isn't "real", and then people decided the practice itself was cool so sportified that. See it? Duel to death with smallswords needs practice and everyone keeps mutually killing each other => lets emphasize a practice ruleset that forces you to deal with danger => hey this is fun => modern foil, eventually. Duels to first blood need to be practiced, so people practiced going to first blood, which was fun, so sport epee happened. Sabre, really briefly, had a similar progression to foil in that it went cavalry weapon > practice > sportified practice. I think. Sabre is weird. If you've done HEMA, you've got to know that a newbie flailing away with no thought for defending themselves is going to have a pretty good chance at hitting you. People do that a lot in beginning sport fencing, too. Epee's a mess low-level, because defending is harder than attacking. Watch two new fencers in epee: they'll basically always counter-attack into an oncoming attack without even trying to close the line and a lot of bouts are decided based on who misses fewer of those simultaneous attacks. The most common action in a bout between two fencers of ~1 year is probably "attack with a disengage" with the other fencer "circle parries into a counter-attack without waiting to see if they picked up the blade on their parry". In effect, this looks like two fencers swirling their blades around each other once and then both attacking to the near shoulder/chest. So, if you want people to not do that, you put them on foil, which forces them to practice defending themselves rather than using defense-by-offense. Like, sure, at this point foil's morphed a lot from that because what constitutes a parry doesn't actually require you to effectively keep your opponent's line closed, but that's okay too: that means your opponent has to always be practicing "what happens if I am parried and will shortly be stabbed in the chest". Which is why foilists are much faster on the recovery and much, much less interested in remising that epeeists. In practice, I've set artificial rules to try to encourage behavior that will be beneficial for winning bouts as skill improves, even if the optimal behavior for winning now won't be changed. One of my favorite practice bout rulesets for epee is to let my opponent ban a certain type of action (either for both of us or for one of us, I change my mind on this) every few touches. That is, lets say I get three touches on my opponent. He can now say "alright, you're not allowed to score points off of a fleche". For the rest of the bout, any lights I get off of a fleche are ignored (yes, this does mean that I can halt the action with a fleche if I time him out, for the sport-fencers immediately looking to game the system). So then I get three more touches, and now I am not allowed to get points off of wrist touches or a fleche. The idea here is to force yourself to practice using techniques you aren't good at. For example: I'm pretty drat good at foot touches. Its epee, so they can't be used regularly or they'll get punished, but they are 100% my go-to for momentum-changing. If I've lost or gained a few points in quick succession, I'm going to seriously think about setting up a foot touch. So, what do I do against someone who I know is absolutely fantastic at punishing foot touches? Hell if I know, but a drill like the one I described lets me practice not having a tool available to me, which is a good skill to practice. As I hinted at, if you turned this drill into a sport, the rule that works for a drill would immediately be abused in a sport context, just like priority is so divorced from its original intent of "don't get killed because you're too dumb to parry Tybalt's attack." If you wanted to make a sport be more like an "actual" duel to first blood, I'd say you should do something like give a point for a touch anywhere on the body. Three points win the bout, but a fencer can withdraw from a bout early voluntarily, which enters them into some kind of repechage round, maybe double-elimination. Use epees with foil lockout timers. A touch on foil target area eliminates you from the tournament directly, as does losing a bout outright. I'm not sure what the penalty for hitting your opponent on the torso should be, but there should be one, because its kind of rude to kill your opponent in a duel to first blood. And, if we're trying to sportify duels to the death, why are we starting from fencing instead of something else in the first place? And on that note: HEMA folks who want to make HEMA a sport. Any rule you make will get stretched to the breaking point, and the more you make it a sport, and the more you practice trying to win in that sport, the less you'll be trying to study historical martial arts. You'll be practicing to win the sport based on historical martial arts, and this will necessarily be reflected in your technique. And you know what? That's cool. There's nothing wrong with that. But you will never, ever be able to make a sport that will result in identical techniques as described by Fiore or Lichtenauer or whichever text you're looking at. You might be able to get close, but my impression is that the closer your ruleset gets to that, the more it will rely on judges. Which is okay, but then you have all the bias of "well, I think my attack was executed with full intent and was controlled enough to count as a hit, but the judge disagreed, this is bullshit" (see BirdOfPlay getting grumpy at people not understanding that the rules of priority are very well defined and are very consistent across the world). Now that I have talked way too much, what are you saying? Because its apparently "well, think about this rule I am not suggesting be implemented, but you should think about it for reasons I won't say." This thread talks about HEMA more than sport fencing, most of the time. It might be a little more skewed towards sport because, well, the Olympics just happened. You've got a weird chip on your shoulder about this, but if it makes you feel better, I'll go back and clarify when I'm responding to you, KyloWinter, specifically, and when I'm responding to Matt Easton said in the video that you, KyloWinter, linked. And, if you're wondering why sometimes there's antagonism, well, just keep reading, because this guy basically shows up and starts preaching that sport fencing isn't fencing and isn't real. Which is kind of condescending and kind of pointless, respectively. As was your attitude. Also, I never mentioned HEMA either, you brought it up in your response to me. I was responding to you posting a video about a guy who decided he didn't like my sport and wanted to change it for reasons that he assumed were self-evident and they are not. I like most of the HEMA guys at my club, like I said earlier. I like HEMA. poo poo, I used to do HEMA before I really got into epee, and if there's no epee happening I've suited up for rapier and dagger with them because its fun and they're not condescendingly sneering about how I'm just "playing a game, not like us 'real' fencers". And I don't tell them how they should change their sport to suit what I think real fencing is because they're just silly nerds playing with swords unlike me, the real athlete. Unlike, say, this guy below. Verisimilidude posted:I disagree with your statement that all fencing is artificial. Tournaments are artificial. Fencing for points is artificial. Training isn't, and what you train for isn't, unless you are training specifically to get points or to win tournaments. Otherwise the same argument could be made that all martial arts are artificial unless you are in the middle of a street fight. Verisimilidude posted:As for hitting each other in the hands...what makes that boring? poo poo, make getting a hit in the face or torso worth more than a hit to the hands/legs. That would be rad. I personally find sport fencing to be incredibly boring to watch. I think it's mainly in the way it's presented, but even when it's explained to me it looks like flailing and then both fencers get hit and someone gets the point. At the bar recently while watching the olympics, patrons were straight up asking "wait, why did that person get the point when the other person hit him". Some really cool stuff happens from time to time, but the majority of what happens looks indecipherable. The sport has already become artificial, so why not add more artificiality in a direction of verisimilitude? Are we trying to go back to some platonic ideal? Maybe you should define it first instead of believing that we all agree with you. Are we trying to make it look cool to a complete layman? Should a fencer get bonus points based on how much like Errol Flynn or a Jedi they can look like? What do you even want? And with that. 
Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 15:24 on Aug 27, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2016 14:56
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:I wasn't making the argument that because it's boring to watch it should be changed. You or someone else made the point that it would look boring if the rules were changed, all I was saying is it already does look boring. Why don't you define what "real" fencing is, then, since you're apparently using a different definition from the rest of the world. edit: Guys, marathon runners aren't real marathon runners because we didn't make all the participants fight a battle against spear-carrying Persians first, and when they cross the finish line they don't have to yell "nenikekamen" before dying. I'm just saying that so-called "marathon" runners should accept that they've divorced from their roots and are just doing a "sport". Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Aug 27, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2016 15:52
|
|
|
Verisimilidude posted:I never said anything about "sword fighting". I'm sorry so many HEMA people have tried to make that argument against you and sport fencing. Your definition is either so broad as to include Olympic fencing and sport fencing as "fencing", or you're making assumptions about other words, or you haven't defined it enough. "Weapon" for instance. Olypmpic blades certainly aren't weapons, because I'm not trying to hurt someone with them, nor are they designed for it, though I could. Which means if I and another person decided to take epees and try to actually kill/hurt each other with them, we'd be fencing I guess? Using feders, similarly, probably mean that you're not "fencing", because they are not designed to injure. Guns are, but I don't think you're trying to say that two people shooting each other are "fencing," even though they are both defending themselves with weapons, trying to hit the other, and trying not to get hit. Two people smashing each other with clubs is fencing? Are fists "weapons?" Intent "plays a part", but what is it when one person trying to kill the other, the other person trying to count coup before running? What if one person is trying to kill the other, and the second person is desperately trying not to hit their opponent? Fencing or not? Could you describe a time you have "fenced" under your definition? Can we justdescribe your personal definition of fencing as "artisanal fencing" from here on out, maybe? edit: HEY GAL posted:we may not fight like they fought, but what's preventing you from training like they trained? that's what hema is, in my opinion Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Aug 27, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2016 16:39
|
|
|
KyloWinter posted:Maybe because I didn't link it.
|
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2016 17:00
|
|
|
Neat. Is that why the longsword seems to focus on unarmored combat? e: vvvv Yeah, I meant most of the fechtbuch stuff I remember looking at ages ago. Ravenfood fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Aug 27, 2016 |
|
#
¿
Aug 27, 2016 20:42
|
|
|
dupersaurus posted:Out of town for the week, so went to stab the locals. Bunch of epeeists, but it was still fun. If you find yourself in Nashville and want to fence, Music City FC is a good visit. Good epee in Nashville? Sweet! I might be going to school that direction soon.
|
|
#
¿
Sep 16, 2016 05:37
|
|
|
BirdOfPlay posted:"Attack arrives, touch left."
|
|
#
¿
Sep 26, 2016 19:36
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 15, 2024 01:27 |
|
|
Afaik, 5 is still a completely pointless guard in modern foil. It closes nothing better than any guard and is worse in various ways. What advantages does he claim he gets from starting in it?
|
|
#
¿
Oct 3, 2016 23:33
|
|