Thrusting my long, elegant weapon over and over again: ask me about fencing

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Thrusting my long, elegant weapon over and over again: ask me about fencing

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dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Hey, a fencing thread! Just as I was starting to think "I wonder if I could start a fencing thread...". How much do we make fun of the fencing.net forums here?

# ¿ Apr 22, 2015 23:25

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 19:08

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

The fencing.net forums, looking to find solutions to non-existent problems since 1999.

I'm not dealing with nationals this year, but from what I've heard it's a tangled mess if you're one of those people out there fencing nationally (NACs, ROCs, RYCs, etc). I think one of the coaches at my club ended up making a flow chart to help guide parents through it.

Crazy Achmed posted:

What do you mean by incomplete 512?

There were too many people for a 256-fencer round, but fewer than 512, so there were something like 222 (?) byes in the first round.

# ¿ Apr 23, 2015 13:44

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I have wondered why they cut at 80%, and not to fit the biggest 2^N. Though it would suck to be in an event of 2^N+1, and be the +1 after the cut.

Crazy Achmed posted:

A 50% chance of automatically making it to the second round of DEs sounds fair
Isn't this what poules are for?

This was after the post-poule cut.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2015 13:42

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

Is there an actual good reason for using a single tiny wire instead of a proper sheathed multi-strand cable? I've always wondered this. Then again, bayonet plugs still exist.

Bayonet master race 4 lyfe.

Do sheathed cables 1/3 the diameter of the cables we're already using exist? Really, sounds like more complexity and cost for what's a fairly minor (if annoying) problem.

# ¿ Apr 30, 2015 13:56

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

For whatever reason that's a fairly common saber break, where the tang breaks in the grip and the whole weapon tumbles apart, leaving an empty guard in your hand.

# ¿ May 3, 2015 14:39

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If there's one thing I regret about not fencing saber, it's being able to spend just $30 to replace a broken blade.

# ¿ May 4, 2015 13:48

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

We want our blades to bend. Even the best-made steel will eventually fail from fatigue when it's thin and you double it over dozens of times a week. YMMV, but I usually get 12-18 months out of a good foil blade. Saber blades are pretty much expendable. I imagine epees are pretty stout, but that's probably because epeeists are doing anything most of the time.

Edit: I'm presuming non-sport blades are made stiff like real weapons, don't have any actual experience with them.

dupersaurus fucked around with this message at 14:19 on May 4, 2015

# ¿ May 4, 2015 14:15

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

DandyLion posted:

I'm incredibly impressed with how precise and accurate high level sport fencers can be with blades essentially unstable/whippy compared to their historic martial counterparts. Any amount of wobble/flex inherintley adds another factor to account for when aiming the point onto target, and the fact that sport fencers accomplish precise target control with an implement that is essentially flexing like an arrow being shot from a bow as they travel to the target in some ways seems even more impressive than if they had a stiff rod-like blade.

And then you lose a touch because your wiggling tip bounced off of the target before the box registered it.

# ¿ May 7, 2015 20:05

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Gadamer posted:

Gotta love the guys who wear chest protectors.

Oh, I'm quite capable of doing it without the help of a chest protector.

# ¿ May 8, 2015 14:13

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

It might feel better without protection, but is it worth the risk?

serioustalk: maybe try pronating/supinating more if you're attacking to the sides of target? Or begin your attack/extension from slightly further away.

It's just the tip!

Starting too close is a problem, but in these cases it's more finishing too hard with the hand (oh god they keep multiplying)

# ¿ May 9, 2015 13:31

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Foil. And, yeah, I know what needs to be done; I'm climbing out of that gap between knowing and executing, but I've been making good strides on it. I tend to finish marching attacks a tempo or two later than I should (which causes all sorts of fun problems), and getting my brain to accept that I'm long enough to hit from out there has been an exercise. Sure makes life easier, though.

# ¿ May 13, 2015 14:02

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I knew a guy that could only coach since he screwed up his knee when fencing young, but that was for his national team so probably an edge case. I've had a few injuries since I picked up fencing, but all from other sports. If you are worried about your knee, at the very least pick a club with a good sprung floor, not straight concrete. And learn to lunge properly (knee never goes further than the ankle)

Crazy Achmed posted:

Hey, the reason I'm saying that is because I'm all too familiar with getting it wrong myself... Landing flat on someone's quarte because my distance was hosed-up is my speciality.

Oddly enough I don't have much of a going flat problem, just the bounce. I'm starting to get the footwork and the distance right, though, and it's really throwing people off.

# ¿ May 15, 2015 13:58

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

My club just started hosting a longsword class, and it's mostly attended by saber fencers. In the first class I heard the instructor say that they all have very good lunges, but should take it down a few notches.

BirdOfPlay posted:

Maybe, but this is still a sport, being able to push yourself beyond "safe" is a part of the game. Sometimes it's that extra 5% that scores that touch. I've heard of foil coaches that expect your back-foot to slide at least a foot during a lunge, or else, you're simply not lunging, period.

Sliding the back foot isn't terrible, and once you get to a certain level of power it pretty much happens on its own, especially combined with the momentum of a bout. Just have to make sure not to roll your ankle the wrong way on the recovery. But you wouldn't want to be doing that for every lunge since your opponent will just start adjusting to that length, and now you can't get to them without more preparatory footwork.

The real danger is lunging with your knee ahead of your ankle. From what I've been told, that's a great way to screw your knee up, and I don't know if it really even gets you all that much extra. So don't do that.

# ¿ May 20, 2015 15:45

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

That's why you lunge by kicking your front heel forward then landing on it. That initial impact will absorb a lot of the force (which is why the Nike Ballestras are padded to hell there) before you even have to engage your knee.

# ¿ May 20, 2015 18:01

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

As my coach says when people ask him what he'd do in a real swordfight: "bring a gun"

# ¿ Jun 13, 2015 03:04

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

thewireguy posted:

I got a blood blister on my big toe.I guess I am not steeping and dragging my feet.I less sore on the quads, but both big toes and balls of feet are rubbed raw

My feet used to rub sore all the time, but I started wearing these socks a couple of years ago and haven't had any problems since.

# ¿ Jun 21, 2015 14:36

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

It wasn't a function of calluses (I've got plenty), just little bits of wiggle and pressure against the shoe. This way it's the socks rubbing against the socks, not your skin. Even better than taping everything up.

# ¿ Jun 22, 2015 02:02

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

EmmyOk posted:

I'm fairly certain I can put an Uhlmann barrel+tip on an LP foil blade. What about the wires though? Can any wire go with any barrel?

I think you want a German wire for the barrel. Uhlmann might have their own branded wire, or just get the generic German from Absolute.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2015 13:50

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

One of these days I'm going to qualify for Nats then spend hundreds of dollars to have my rear end stomped in Div2 'cause that's what we do. Either that or my coach will finally convince me to start reffing nationally, and I'll shoot myself on the floor somewhere around day five in Div3 women's epee.

# ¿ Jun 27, 2015 21:43

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

BirdOfPlay posted:

Do it! Especially if you're afraid you won't get a drinking problem, because the best ref mentoring occurs at the bar.

Seriously, if you enjoy the sport and have a knack for reffing, do it. It's fun, challenging, and, sometimes, you get paid to do it! Yankees can gently caress off in regards to being paid.

I do it quite a bit around the division, but all the stories I hear about doing it on the national scene... But nothing is worse than reffing epee.

Crazy Achmed posted:

I just watched the women's sabre final from that US Challenge event (it was the only recent video up at the time) and two things stuck out - the constant cheering and clapping, and nobody getting warned for having their hair out. Spotting the first threaten after the bout is started must be a bastard, too.

To be fair it's not as huge of a deal with saber since there's so much to hit and to hit with. And you're not really aiming to his middle of the back.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2015 03:04

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Ravenfood posted:

Its loving boring as poo poo and as soon as you stop concentrating, someone will go for a toe touch right next to the edge of the piste (or its ungrounded) while the other person is stepping off the side and then you have to make the only call of the match that's actually interesting and you blew it because even as a pretty decent epee fencer a day of reffing it sounds like hell. Especially if the quality of the bout is lower.

e: Like, I'll watch high-level epee bouts for fun and the idea of reffing epee all day makes me cringe.

Not to mention the whole "end of the third period, the bout is to my left, 5-4." Priority is simple and makes things interesting.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2015 14:39

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Verisimilidude posted:

What do y'all do to train in your free time? I'm hitting a bit of a plateau this week and I want to improve or add to my personal training.

Any sort of cross-training. My club hosts a guy that does boot camps which I do once a week, and when the weather's good I'm out on my bike a few times a week. Leg and core is always good, and arm work doesn't hurt either.

# ¿ Jun 29, 2015 15:23

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

I'm not a HEMAer, but I'm going to propose that asking to spar "to work out my frustrations" is probably not a healthy way to go about the sport.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2015 19:26

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

A local HEMA group did a few weeks of a longsword class at my club recently and for most of it they were doing drills with plastic blades, against dummies and people, with and without protection. The instructors brought out metal weapons for the last class. Seemed like a pretty good way to go about it.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2015 21:45

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If we're talking Olympic fencing, then it's actually a rule that she has to wear one.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2015 17:30

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Verisimilidude posted:

A typical fencing glove may stop you from getting cut or bruised from a foil, saber, or epee hit (though I imagine the guard on the weapon is what really keeps you safe)

Really they're about penetration protection, and even then they're sketchy. Bruising happens.

# ¿ Jul 5, 2015 19:16

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Learning to yawn with your eyes open is a requirement to ref epee

# ¿ Jul 5, 2015 23:21

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Nektu posted:

I fully appreciate that us historical fencers can learn a LOT about speed from sport fencers, but could you leave his area of influence after you scored your hit before he can smack you back with a long and deep lunge like that one going for his armpit?

You're planning to do it so that they end up at a distance where they're too close to get to you (say, charging big at you and, whoops, his target is done and he's tripping over you). But we're working with scoring boxes that won't register a second hit after a handful of milliseconds, so, y'know.

# ¿ Jul 8, 2015 17:02

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

My dearly loved neon yellow Balestras have finally bit the dust. I'd get another pair, but do any of you guys have experience with cheaper options? I'm particularly looking at the cheaper Nikes. Adidas historically run too narrow for me, and I'm not sure I have faith in the AF shoes.

ScratchAndSniff posted:

Sport fencers do this too. It's frowned upon in tournaments, though.

I've had to red card this one guy multiple times for grabbing his opponent's foil with his off-hand.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2015 03:04

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

Jesucristo you ref an awful sport

No, he's just a moron.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2015 13:55

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

They say the problem with "do X exercise" as a consequence for losing is that you're turning stuff they should be doing anyways into a punishment. Not that anyone likes doing them in the first place, and it's not like there's much other leverage for a coach. Instead of punishing losing, you might want to punish specific actions (like a bad habit they have), with the punishment being something silly. One of my past coaches had been known to mandate the chicken dance if someone tried to parry in a no-parry drill.

Or maybe the club needs some cleaning?

# ¿ Jul 21, 2015 14:39

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Gadamer posted:

On the other hand, you can make people really good at planks/pushups/burpees/running laps.

That's why you start class with everyone doing those!

# ¿ Jul 21, 2015 18:19

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

10 Beers posted:

And on the topic of regular fencing, is a $500 annual membership fee and $150 a month for 2 weekly classes around the norm for pricing?

I pay $180/month for three classes a week and unlimited open bouting, no extra fees. But I may be in a cheaper area to live in.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2015 17:02

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Two classes a week isn't really a competitive track. Two nights a week is me just barely clinging to my C. The competitive track is probably more like three classes plus one or two private lessons a week.

# ¿ Jul 31, 2015 17:49

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Squat until your legs are crying for mercy, then do ten more.

# ¿ Aug 13, 2015 03:04

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

So what do you guys like to do against absence-of-blade attacks? I really hate those.

Sweeping parries, check steps, accordion distance. Get them to commit when you want them to, and kill them with distance. Counterattack if they're too close and too hidey (he says with a knowing nod).

# ¿ Aug 18, 2015 13:58

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

ScratchAndSniff posted:

This could describe a ton of different things. Maybe try describing the attack in more detail, along with weapon you are using.

We call it hiding the blade around my parts, hold the blade out of the way so your opponent can't easily parry, but keep the distance so you have time to finish. Standard foil stuff.

# ¿ Aug 19, 2015 01:28

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Crazy Achmed posted:

Oh, sorry, hadn't checked the thread in a couple of days. Yeah, I was just talking about marchy stuff in foil (and to a lesser extent epee), usually flicky stuff or those weirdos who like to prepare by advancing with their tip way down. Unless I know what to expect from my opponent it's pretty intimidating to just counter or attack into the preparation... I know that carefully controlling my distance to draw the attack, then parry/riposte is the textbook approach, but I'm interested to see if anyone has any specific things they like to do.

Probably because I'm worse at epee and sabre I actually feel a bit more confident to just try something off-the-wall... counter thrust to the knee/foot and duck/counter-cut to the wrist are so satisfying when they go to plan.

My experience with broken time / counter time is more or less limited to doing odd footwork (usually half steps and/or accelerating lunges) to try and use someone's rhythm against them, or deliberately countering after getting parried. I'm usually not quick enough for the bladework, but sometimes I get the footwork OK... as an aside, it sometimes works really well (but only once!) against people who are in the habit of taking two steps forward at the start of a bout and only then actually beginning to fence.

Any sort of counter or AiP is not going to work if the attacker has any of: keeping good distance, keeping good speed, or killer point control. If it's foil, crushing counter attacks can work good if you get the timing right and their blade is too hidden or they're coming in too strong. My coach also advocates pulling out of distance entirely and let them catch back up (hopefully too quickly). But you can't just retreat, you also have to throw some flak out there (like searching parries) too keep them on their toes; even if you can't reach the parry, it forces them to have to deal with your blade, and helps with the whole "it looks like a good time but really isn't" thing.

# ¿ Aug 23, 2015 17:36

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

If a guy with a handlebar mustache comes to the club with a fixie, I'm going to assume he fences epee.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 16:05

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 19:08

dupersaurus: Aug 1, 2012; Futurism was an art movement where dudes were all 'CARS ARE COOL AND THE PAST IS FOR CHUMPS. LET'S DRAW SOME CARS.'

Black carding all epee fencers: great idea or best idea ever?

# ¿ Oct 25, 2015 03:04

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Thrusting my long, elegant weapon over and over again: ask me about fencing

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