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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOgSOXSjthE When someone thinks it for real...
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Mar 17, 2021 17:32
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 18:46 |
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Siivola posted:Oh yeah that’s the tournament where they specifically and explicitly wrote the rules to test the participants' throws, and then this guy got thrown and hurt and made a huge deal about it on facebook. Well,there's throwing and then there's driving the guy into the ground. The last bit of it was a total jerk move. (Not to mention throwing his sword into the crowd).
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Mar 17, 2021 17:52
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Well, it's one of the issues I think HEMA has: It wants to be realistic, but it also wants to be a sport...but it really hard to be both Olympic fencing has totally surrendered to being a sport, kendo has become a stylized martial art, with a strong philosophical aspect + a sports die, but it's really obscure to outsiders.
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Mar 18, 2021 22:41
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So, having now fenced Epee for more than 3 months, I'm now obviously an expert on all matters olympic fencing, but...the current state of sabre fencing just seems like complete nonsense to me. I can largely understand (and recognize) the RoW in foil, but in sabre, it is soo marginal that it's largely unwatchable. You go back to say, the 2012 Olympics and it's largely watchable, but the current stuff?. I think that technology has evolved enough that they should try accelerometers in the weapons again and make them actually 'cut', rather than just touch...which would probably also mean they would need stiffer blades. (in order to reliably read the deceleration)... Or at the very least, move them further away from eachother, rather than the 1-step-attack that they have now.
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Apr 7, 2021 21:00
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Wouldn't a shorter lockout time be a better solution? Or am I just not understanding it well enough. Shorter lockout would make parry-ripose more effective, no?.
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Apr 8, 2021 02:14
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It took me a while to understand. I somehow thought the lockout time, was the time in which both lights would go on. So yes, increase lock-out time and then also stiffer blades  It was my intention when I started fencing that I would move on to saber, but I have my doubts now. Also, by far the majority of adults do epee and in many ways it's also the closest to my kendo background...OTOH, I'm also short, especialy by epee standards (5'8"), but I'm also not planning on entering the olympics any time soon.
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Apr 8, 2021 06:54
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BirdOfPlay posted:Serious Q: kendo is a snap decision kinda sport right? Like, lots of slow set up to build towards an exchange that lasts all of a quarter of a second, if that? If so, that sounds like epee. Yes, it's quite similar. A popular expression is "win, then strike". On the other hand, scoring is subjective...Well, it's not supposed to be but you need: - To have created the opportunity (not just randomly hitting). - Strike with the correct part of the shinai (top 3rd and with the 'cutting' side) and sufficient force. - Strike the correct part of the opponents armor. - With the mind and body as one. - With correct awareness after the strike. The last 2 are the hardest for outsiders to understand and for me to explain, but roughly translates to hitting with a coordinated and intentionally executed attack, with full commitment and awareness. The quality of all this will vary depending on the experience of the practitioner, so what will get you a point in the lower grade divisions, will be ignored at the higher levels. This also means that the referees needs to be more experienced than the people they're judging. This isn't always the case, but with 3 referees and at least 2 of those would have to agree, it mostly works out....(except for major competitions, where they do have very experienced referees, who for some reason *always* perform terribly. The world championships can be terrible because of that.) Anyway..that was a long way of saying, that epee scoring is infinitely more simple. Kendo is also, in general, far more attack-oriented. There is, in principle, no such thing as defending* and it's primarily based on putting pressure on the opponent and creating an opportunity to attack. * You will never be taught parry on it's own. It will always be part of a compound deflect/riposte action. On a similar note, there is, in theory, no simultanous attacks. One side will always hit before the other and in close calls, you wil usually look at who created the opportunity. so in some sense, there *is* a RoW . Confused yet?
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Apr 8, 2021 07:46
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Liquid Communism posted:Part of that awareness is meant to be being prepared for a strike from a 'dying' opponent, is it not? That's something I wish HEMA scoring was better about, a lot of the tourney bouts you can watch should end in doubles because so many throw away all pretense of defense. MmmMmmm, sortof. As with most Japanese martial arts, kendo has a philosophical side as well. Wikipedia actually describes it well: quote:In the context of kendō, zanshin is the continued state of spirit, mental alertness and physical readiness to meet the situation (such as an opposing attack) that must be maintained when one returns to kamae after attacking. It is one of the essential elements that define a good attack So, you can be hit after the attack, but if you maintain correct posture and awareness...it wont count...whereas if your posture/focus relaxes and the opponent follows up and strikes you, then you initial attack will be ignored/waved off.
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Apr 8, 2021 23:39
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Crazy Achmed posted:
Mmm, not a lot. Andy Fisher got some 'analysis' videos, but they have a lot of kendo terminology, which may make them a little hard to digest. Quick guide: You have 4 targets: 3 cuts: 'Men' (top of the head), 'Kote' (right* forearm), 'Do' (side of the torso) and 'Tsuki' thrust to the throat. Competitions are best of 3 points, ties go to OT. 'Seme' roughly translates to 'preparation'. 'Oji-waza' = counter techniques. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXoyFsd3bM4 This is for a promotional exam and points aren't counted. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVVT_UB1-68&t=124s From All Japan Championships. *In any other stance than 'middle stance', left forearm also becomes a valid target.
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Apr 13, 2021 05:51
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Ataxerxes posted:Also (at least here in Finland) pushing your opponent out of the ring is both permissible and gives you a point. Not quite, it'll give you a 'penalty point' of which you need two before before the oppponent gets a point. Also the 'pushing' has to be part of an attacking action, otherwise the pusher will get a penalty point.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:22
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Fencing has only been 'closed' for the last set of restrictions. Before that, it ran with limited capacity. The last 5 weeks, it's been juniors and high performance (national level) only and private lessons. It should open up to almost normal next week. Been working with 2 coaches. One, more traditional drills., the other on 'how to fight', so mostly working on prep. Epee is very similar to kendo in that regard. Kendo did a soft restart last week. Drills only, no contact. I *think* we might go back to regular practice next week, if not then on July 1st (Depending on infection rates, but it's looking good at the moment).
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Jun 9, 2021 17:59
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Kendo is now back to normal. Masks still required, but it's ok. We might even fit in a tournament or two this year. I'd also forgotten just how much physically harder kendo is (than fencing). Fencing is also back to normal. Was really weird going back to fencing peers again. Having mostly fenced coaches over the last 2-3 months, where I ended up attacking most of the time, I had a hard time adjusting to people attacking *me*!. How dare they!. To compensate, I bought a fancy Harut epee grip. I'm sure that will make my fencing much better.
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Jul 3, 2021 06:05
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For Epee, Heinzer from Switzerland is probably the most entertaining to watch, although I'm much more a fan of Yannick Borrel.
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Jul 23, 2021 02:25
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Listen to your mom.
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Oct 10, 2021 05:07
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If there was a larger adult contingent doing foil, I wouldn't mind trying it...but virtually all adults/vets are doing Epee, so I'll stick with that. (Also now having invested in fancy grips/blades, I'd better stick with it!)
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Oct 11, 2021 06:53
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 Umanov handling it as gracefully as I would expect. (Good riddance).
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Mar 1, 2022 19:09
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In my experience (5th dan, 25 years or so), fencers pick it up faster than your average person. The squared off stance takes a bit of time, but they'll have more body awareness in general and understand distance and timing. Mind you, the relatively small sample have all been Epeeist, which is in my experience much closer to kendo in terms of how you fight. Sabreurs, I wouldn't touch them with a long stick . (Just about everything saber does is different).I also picked up fencing/epee about 18 months ago and have found the transition relatively easy. By far the biggest issue is extending the arm before moving, Timing and opportunity in Epee is very very similar to kendo. The mechanics are way more delicate and it's very hard to progress without private lessons with the coach.
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May 20, 2022 02:58
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Crazy Achmed posted:
I'd argue it's the other way around. The RoW makes foil/sabre very different concepts than kendo. Sure, obviously you need to hit correctly, with correct posture etc, but everything up to that is extremely similar to epee. The way I set up attacks in epee is very similar to what I do in kendo and I have largely been able to apply my kendo timing to epee. kiminewt posted:
Fumikomi refers to the stomping action of the front foot. Fumikiri is the pushing action with the rear foot and is a better comparable to the lunge in fencing.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:18
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Ok, let me put it in a different way: The actions of the opponent are largely irrelevant when it comes to judging points in kendo. If you hit first (with sufficient quality), it's your point. So, yes, there's quality requirements, but the actions of the opponent aren't a major issue.* *There's a bunch of caveats to this, but not really relevant to the concepts of this topic.
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Jun 3, 2022 18:39
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Crazy Achmed posted:I think you're both right in different ways, the setup and timing seems very epee. And you're saying in the case of both kendoka having good form etc it's hit first rather than start the attack first? Yes. A very common type of attack is what we call 'debana', which is essentially the counter-attack of kendo. Essentially there's 3 timings in kendo: - Just before the opponent start to move. - Just as they're starting the attack (counter) - Middle of the attack (parry-riposte) It's simplifying the concepts a fair bit. Now at higher levels, there's an argument that even if you do a debana attack (or counter technique), it's because you set it up and as such *you* started the attack. quote:On the other hand, yeah, having to signal your target and the concept of unity also seems very RoW. Just to make clear: You don't have to signal the target beforehand. ImplicitAssembler fucked around with this message at 02:46 on Jun 4, 2022 |
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Jun 4, 2022 02:35
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But if you intentionally force an opponent to attack, so that you can counter it, who is really attacking first? 
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Jun 4, 2022 06:17
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kiminewt posted:I'm aware, but they're usually bunched together, at least here (Europe). I don't think I've heard people refer to fumikiri as something separate except in videos and books. Right, but you can do fumikomi on the spot (oji-waza) or going backwards (hiki-waza) and sometimes you don't need to do it at all. Fumikomi , as a part of the basic tobikomi-men is a byproduct of A: trying to achieve kikentai and B: continuing the forward momentum. It's certainly a separate concept here (Vancouver and I believe on the West Coast in general) and I've heard it several times in Japan as well. quote:On a personal note, I has a tournament last weekend that ended in disappointment, after having trained for it for a long time. Two loses, one draw and a win - plus my team lost in the pools. Usually these kinda loses give a lot of motivation (my coach gave me a long list of things to work on) but because I'm injured and can't work on them right away I've withdrawn to a bit of a malajse. I assume this was the Europeans?. The new rules has made it far more enjoyable to watch. Both the EKC and WKC used to be dreadful with uber-defensive play and hours spent in tsubazeriai. Rukas, the runner-up used to be one of 'my' students many moons ago. Despite being older and slower I still compete and will hopefully continue to do so, although I my travel limit is now 3 hours driving. You have to ask yourself what you want out of it. Sure, we all want to win, but most people that isn't a realistic outcome. I've long know that I was decent, but never had the talent to compete with the top. A good draw would maybe get me to the semis, most likely quarters, before I ran into a 'name'. (We never have any pools here, it's straight to elimination). So, my primary objective is now to perform to best of my ability. Win/lose is kinda secondary, but my point is that if you performed to a large extent, with your own kendo, on your own terms, then you should be, if not happy, then at least content with the outcome. My last EKC (Helsinki 2008?) was dreadful and I very much let the situation get to me and tried *way* too hard. Even the 'easy' opponent in my group, which I would have walked all over on a regular day was a giant battle to get a single scrappy point. I was sooo pissed of with myself. All that training and preparation thrown out the window. I had in advance signed up to do my 4th dan exam the same afternoon and my initial reaction was to skip it, but since I've already paid for it, I went 'gently caress it'. Left my bokuto behind, because I surely wouldn't need them...and I absolutely murdered my opponents and had to sprint back to get my bokuto for the kata. Anyway! Heal up. Don't stop competing, but at least for now, approach them with a "I just want to do my kendo" mindset and you'll find it far more beneficial in the long run rather than focusing on 'winning' and probably also a lot more enjoyable. If you then later, find that you still have one more major tournament left in you then change gears and put in the hours, etc.
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Jun 4, 2022 07:37
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Ravenfood posted:The person who attacks first is attacking first. Just because it was an ill-advised attack provoked by an action doesn't make it less of an attack. It's semantics, mostly..however, at higher grades it becomes very important to be able (and understand how) to control the opponent in such a manner. At higher level examinations (for a higher rank), hitting first is less important than creating and controlling the opportunity, similarly as striking just purely based on speed, without reason, will result in a failure. As for simultaneous hit, they don't officially exist. Someone always hits first. However, in very close call, the person who appeared to initiate the attack will likely get the call. Finally, yes a hit has to be an obvious attack. It has be be carried out with correct technique and intention (and to some extent, reason). A lot of this is what makes kendo quite inapprehensible for the outsider...and frankly, that's just fine. The philosophical aspect of kendo is what makes it attractive to most of it's practioners
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Jun 6, 2022 22:00
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I should clarify that: Most people start because the gear looks cool and you can pretend to be a samurai: People who stay, still thinks the gear looks cool (and pretends to be samurai) but stick with it because of the individual growth that it offers. Even as your physical abilities start to decline, the mental side of it will continue to grow and you'll still be able to practice (and beat) younger/faster people. My previous teacher passed away at 76 and practiced up until a few weeks before his death and I still couldn't touch him. His understand of how to make people move/react along with a complete lack of fear of being hit made him near impossible to hit.
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Jun 6, 2022 22:26
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This is fairly interesting video about the history of kendo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AP_NwitaquM
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Jun 13, 2022 05:37
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I really want to like sabre, but it's just too silly. And often you can ask 4 different referees and get 4 different opinions.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:26
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Very cool. I've moved to a fencing wasteland and nearest club is 450kms away, with another 2-300km for an Epee club :/. (Kendo is also 450km and I get about 1 session per month now).
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Dec 17, 2022 00:12
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Cessna posted:Saw this grip at a tournament last weekend. It's 3d printed titanium: Do you need to add a large weight to balance it? Or is that less of an issue with pistol grips?
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Feb 23, 2023 19:23
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Yeah, I saw that and I'm not surprised. When you can ask 3 different referees about a fairly basic judgement and get 3 different answers that are all legitimate, you got a problem and it was the biggest reason I didn't pick up saber. Love the dynamics of it, but the margins in scoring are just too small. Things I would like to see (Which may or may not be practical) - Cutting edge/point only. - Accelerometers as well as contact. - stiffer blades
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Jan 15, 2024 18:33
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Right, so the idea with my suggestions was to make it slightly harder to actually make contact, which would (?) make the attacks (and/or parries) more obvious. I'm not a sabreur, though, just a meddling epeeist and not-so-meddling kendo-ist.
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Jan 17, 2024 00:16
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| # ¿ May 11, 2024 18:46 |
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There's always Sports Chanbara: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zjIopjGzJeM
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Jan 31, 2024 04:58
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