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I'm more into the "sport" aspect anyway; I don't feel any sort of need to train with heavy swords in preparation for a real swordfight. I'm also a bit older (I'm in the Vet category) so it's not like there's some sort of scholarship on the line here, it's more of a matter of what I want to do for fun. I've done sabre for about a year and a half and foil on the side for about six months, so this is a reasonably informed decision.
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Feb 2, 2021 17:45
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Ravenfood posted:Probably a long shot, but does anyone know anything about the Olympic clubs in the Columbus, OH area? My son went to Junior Olympics for fencing in Columbus just before the quarantine started, I got the impression that there was a decent fencing presence in the town. There were a few local clubs present who helped with hosting, they all seemed nice.
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Mar 3, 2021 19:03
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Olympic fencing has totally surrendered to being a sport, I'm okay with this. The odds of me being involved in a real sabre duel are quite slim; I'm just out to have fun with it.
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Mar 19, 2021 04:19
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Xiahou Dun posted:And there's absolutely nothing wrong with that, and everyone should get to have their own fun. I think the point is that HEMA is at this weird point where it needs to pick a lane. I firmly am on the side of trying to recreate historical techniques as best we can (even though it's not exactly a skill I'm ever gonna need or use), but the people who want tournaments are more than happy to enjoy them. I know Olympic-style fencing is a sport, not real dueling combat, but I don't think it's completely devoid of use of historical techniques. Here's a 258 year old fencing manual, for example:   Sure, yes, it's a sport. But it's a very old, traditional sport. You can go on Youtube and see old films of people fencing a century ago. A lot of the footwork and techniques have changed, but a lot just haven't. As such - well, I have to admit, I just don't get HEMA. I think you're right - are they out to compete or recreate? Cessna fucked around with this message at 18:51 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 17:35
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Xiahou Dun posted:O yeah, I feel you and I weren't knocking Olympic fencing at all. (I did foil and epee for years and years once upon a time.) It definitely has some core things based off of real sword-fighting techniques. It's just like boxing or whatever whereby the nature of making it a sport (which, again, isn't bad) means that it side-steps from the "real" techniques, e.g. boxers can use their hands differently because they're wearing gently caress-off huge gloves or epee-fencers doing itty-bitty whippy taps to someone's big toe or whatever. These aren't problems, it's the nature of the beast when you take a combat thing and you want to make it a fun and safe(ish) sport. Absolutely, I think we're on the same page here.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:23
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ImplicitAssembler posted:I can largely understand (and recognize) the RoW in foil, but in sabre, it is soo marginal that it's largely unwatchable. That's the thing I dislike the most about sabre. There are too many simultaneous, in-the-box points that are just too close to call. I really enjoy sabre, but scoring and ref-ing is frustrating as hell.
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Apr 7, 2021 22:13
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dupersaurus posted:saber barbarian New user name plz.
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Apr 7, 2021 22:16
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ImplicitAssembler posted:It was my intention when I started fencing that I would move on to saber, but I have my doubts now. Also, by far the majority of adults do epee and in many ways it's also the closest to my kendo background...OTOH, I'm also short, especialy by epee standards (5'8"), but I'm also not planning on entering the olympics any time soon. That's about how I look at it. I'm too old for the Olympics, I'm just there for a workout and a chance to do something fun that my kid also enjoys. Sabre is silly and frustratingly arbitrary, but I like the sabre group at my club best, so that's what I do.
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Apr 8, 2021 16:03
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ulmont posted:Anyone have a link to a fencing dictionary or something similar? Trying to visualize the parries in carte, in seconde and in low prime from the book I’m reading (Swords and Deviltry).  Carte = Quarte, Parry 4.
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Apr 13, 2021 17:43
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I don't know, it's a pretty straightforward parry. Move your hand up, keep the point towards the opponent. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8jMvm2LlwQ
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Apr 15, 2021 16:03
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Anyone else's clubs opening back up? We can get in and fence if we show a vaccine card.
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Jun 8, 2021 23:03
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My son qualified for Junior Olympics again, so it looks like we're going to Philadelphia next month. There's also the Vet's NAC (Old guy's matches) that I qualify for, so I'll go fence as well. I doubt I'll make it past the first round, but it should still be fun, a chance to fence some top athletes.
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Jun 9, 2021 18:38
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Kestral posted:Are there any interesting storylines or competitors going into this Olympics? I'm wondering if Oh will get gold, I hope he does. He's got a very dynamic style that's fun to watch. He's up against Szilagyi, who is an tough competitor who is more "classic" and has already has won golds in 2012 and 2016. We could see a changing of the guard in men's sabre. I'm also rooting for Zagunis. She's a four-time Olympian, and I'd love to see her do well. She'll be up against Kharlan, whose technique is very impressive.
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Jul 22, 2021 22:39
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Xiahou Dun posted:I would also like any additional info on the contestants themselves! I know little or nothing about their personal lives. Also, this is all men's sabre, I know very little about foil and absolutely nothing about epee. I'm also talking individuals, not teams. And I am not an expert; I'm relatively new to sabre - most of this info is from my coaches telling me who to watch and why. Oh is South Korean. The phrase that I've heard that describes him best is "no one that big should be that fast." He's also amazingly flexible, so he can stretch a lunge attack out to distances that no human being should be able to reach. Picture a 6'4" man stretching out like a gymnast. Here's a brief video of some of his work: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6CoxbvaxjU Next is Szilagyi, from Hungary. He's just - precise. Watching him fence is like watching a textbook come to life. If you have a coach, they want you to fence like Szilagyi - smooth, balanced, quick, controlled: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXNgl_7sRXw The contrast between the two of them is really cool. You've got this big amazingly athletic guy from a country that's relatively new to fencing who spends eight hours a day doing footwork, versus the absolute textbook classic Fencing Academy precision style practitioner from an old-school sabre country. Another athlete to watch is Darryl Homer. He's from New York City, a guy from the Bronx who won a silver medal in 2016. (This is the best the USA has ever done in sabre.) Everyone I know from my school - the old school coaches who have been in the sport for decades who know everyone - who has met him says he's the nicest guy in the world. Homer is the master of acceleration. You think he's starting his march attack and before you know it he's wooshed across the strip, closed, and got the point while you were setting up a parry. He's also known for his flunge. Flunge is "flying lunge." Back in the old days sabre had charge attacks, where opponents would just run at each other, making matches predictable and boring and encouraging poor technique. To prevent this they made a rule whereby you can't bring your back foot in front of your front foot, to make you make a deliberate advance. Homer's response is to just defy gravity and fly. Here's a video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0DVD5ig2NU Homer is great, but - well, I hate to say this, but I think he surprised everyone in 2016, but by now the other Olympians are prepared to deal with his techniques. I hope he's got a counter to their counter, if that makes sense. Tl;dr: - Oh is tremendously athletic and may well represent a new way to fence sabre. - Szilyagi is precise, classic fencing. - Homer is the one you want to win - root for him with your heart - but we don't know if his surprising techniques have staying power. I obviously can't promise that Oh, Szilyagi, or Homer will get gold/silver, but they're all fun to follow and they'll make for some great fencing. Cessna fucked around with this message at 16:55 on Jul 23, 2021 |
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Jul 22, 2021 23:38
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YoursTruly posted:Is there room in the average fencing club for those of us who are competitively inclined, but are otherwise not good at the sport? I mean, that's where I am. I have a lot of fun but I'm never going to win any gold medals. I go three times per week, 2-3 hours per session, but I'm an old guy and I've only been doing it for less than two years. There are 20 year olds with lightning reflexes who train 3-4 hours a day every day out there, and they just slaughter me. But I'm okay with that and still going to stick with it - it's fun, it's a challenge, and it's a good workout. But I think it depends on the club. Mine is really good at being what you need. If you just want a workout and casual fencing for fun, great, or if you want to be competitive and train for national matches, they can do that too. Other clubs might really emphasize the competitive, or not go to matches at all. Kestral posted:Would you mind if I reposted it in the storylines thread, unless you want to put it there yourself? You're welcome to repost it, just mention my name or quote me. Cessna fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Aug 29, 2022 |
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Jul 23, 2021 16:44
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Kestral posted:Done and done - thanks for the effortpost! Following up on this: Homer was knocked out in Table of 32, finished overall 24th. Oh was knocked out in semi-finals. I don't have really good info here, but it looks like he was done in by an ankle injury. Szilagyi won his third gold medal in an absolutely brilliant match.
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Jul 26, 2021 21:53
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It's pretty, but I can't see how it would help with training any more than a regular camera replay. That said: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q3bVL9OG-X4
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Aug 20, 2021 15:20
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I've only seen masks painted by the vendor; I don't know if a home-painted sabre mask would work as the paint might make the connection fail. If the masking tape is taking the paint off, let the paint dry longer (at least overnight) before using it. You also might try a different tape. Tamiya tape is a yellow hobby tape sold at model/hobby shops that might work better for you.
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Oct 7, 2021 15:11
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That is sick, I love it! Real sabeurs? I'm probably older and slower than you. I'm starting to become a bit disillusioned with sabre myself. It seems like 90% of the action is in the box, and that's just a game of rock-scissors-paper I play against kids who are faster than me. I've been doing foil instead for a few weeks; I'm not good, but it has a lot more of the back and forth phrases that I prefer.
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Oct 10, 2021 02:06
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Crazy Achmed posted:At any rate i figure unless you have goals to get super competitive and win competitions, then just do whichever weapon makes you happy on any given day. Sure, that's about where I'm at. I have stuff for both sabre and foil, and bring both to the club - after that it's whatever I think sounds like fun that night. I think I like the idea of sabre better, but the way the sport is - just rock/scissors/paper in the box against 15 year olds with better reflexes - I'm getting more and more okay with foil. I know I'm not going to the Olympics or anything like that, but at the same time I don't want to lose every single match.
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Oct 11, 2021 18:45
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dupersaurus posted:If you're good enough at foil and want to have fun with saber youths, try fencing saber like foil. Like, y'know, use the tip. And sometimes retreat. 
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Oct 11, 2021 19:18
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Liquid Communism posted:Consider some historical military sabre. Whole different game with an actual blade simulator instead of a wire whip. The reason I'm fencing is to support my son. He's a dedicated foil fencer; he trains constantly, fences at national competitions, and has made it to Junior Olympics twice. I fence because - well, I'm going to be at the school anyway, so I can either sit on the sidelines or get in a workout. Going to a different style isn't really an option at this point, but thanks for the suggestion!
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Oct 12, 2021 15:22
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I had a miserable tournament yesterday. I showed up to fence Vet Sabre. Not enough people showed up to make it an official rated tournament - something I don't care about - but it was cancelled nonetheless. Okay, sure, I'll fence foil in the open tournament for fun. My son was already entered, so I figured I'd take one for the team and do it. Then the owner of the club asked me if I could fence Vet epee in order to get enough people to make their tourney official. I wasn't thrilled, but I borrowed an epee and went to it. I ended up having to rush through the pool bouts all at once and got beaten pretty badly. Then I went over to the foil pools and, having come off of four epee bouts with no break got to do four foil bouts with no break. I didn't do great; I only won one but managed to put up points in the others. Then - well, the school does a good job of accommodating para fencers - if a wheelchair fencer enters a tournament they can opt to fence in a chair. Because I'd done poorly in epee pools I went straight into a match against a guy who had just won Para-Olympic medals in wheelchair epee. That went about as well as you'd expect; I got slaughtered. Then I dashed over to the foil DE and, with everyone complaining that I was late, got beat up by some kid who did nothing but fleche, something I'm not used to dealing with in sabre. I'm not happy about this.
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Nov 15, 2021 15:58
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Xiahou Dun posted:That certainly sounds like an eventful but frustrating day. Sorry, hoss. Your son at least have fun? He did great, he won the whole foil tournament and picked up a higher rating. Xiahou Dun posted:And fleche can be a surprisingly annoying little trick : I know because once upon a time I was the dumb kid who'd do it all the time when I shouldn't. If you're willing to commit to it as a technique you can get way, way more touches than you have any right to. I think it's just that it's such a dumb, overly aggressive strategy that people don't train for it as much as they should (in general, not you or sabre people in specific) : it's not like it's hard to counter, but unless you're used to it or prepared it's pretty easy to get surprised by o poo poo this guy is just bum rushing me with a sword aaaaah. Yeah, in retrospect I should have had a way to deal with it. But the other guy knew I primarily did/do sabre and wouldn't be used to it. I can't fault him for using this strategy, it was a good move and my fault for not knowing the "one simple counter foil fencers have (click here)" that I should have had. I know what I'll be working on next week. Xiahou Dun posted:Also I'd be fascinated to hear more about fencing against an opponent in a chair. Like, the changes in strategy there sound pretty dang fascinating. I don't have enough experience to give any sort of meaningful answer there - going from sabre to wheelchair epee left me completely out of my depth. It is fun, though - I also did a round of foil in the wheelchair in pools, and that was fun (I lost, but 5-4). Instead of doing footwork you lean back and forth, hard. I can really see how it would help practice hand speed, parries, and blade-work as that's pretty much all you have.
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Nov 15, 2021 16:29
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kiminewt posted:I've taught some people who came over from fencing and there's quite a few habits that are hard to break. Like what?
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May 19, 2022 15:43
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Sabreurs, I wouldn't touch them with a long stick I don't think it's THAT different. I do sabre and foil - the same principles of distance, footwork, and timing apply. Sure, there are differences, but it's not like comparing football and swimming.
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May 21, 2022 18:48
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. (Just about everything saber does is different).
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I dunno, I get told all the drat time "your attack didn't really look like an attack, their point" in sabre.
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Jun 3, 2022 20:44
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Sab669 posted:To my untrained eye I would say it's in very rough shape: Foils are finicky little assholes compared to the noble sabre; they require a lot more upkeep and malfunction more often. A sabre is just a metal stick - touch your opponent's shiny parts with it and it completes the circuit easily. In contrast the foil has that little button on the end that is held in with impossibly tiny little screws, sitting a tiny well that accumulates filth and sweat and must be swabbed out with alcohol and q-tips in order to work properly. The end needs taped and re-taped, and the skinny little wire that connects the thing seems to break whenever the foil flexes, and it flexes on every single touch. I think I spent my first year doing foil bothered by weapons that failed until I broke down and spent too much money on decent blades - which still need cleaned, taped, and talked to in a gentle voice in order to work properly. If you aren't worried about using that blade for anything other than practice, I'd scrub the rust off with some fine-grain steel wool and WD40. But, seriously, you probably should consider just ditching it. Blades can and do snap; a modern blade is made with a process (maraging) so that it won't snap into a jagged edge that can go through FIE gear and hurt someone, but - well, with an older blade and non-FIE gear, you might end up with a stab wound and a trip to a hospital. Once you've cleaned it, look at the base of the blade for a stamp. It SHOULD be stamped with a mark from the manufacturer, country of origin, what type of socket/connector it has, and year it was produced - and the year it was made. If it's pre-2000 and has a "bayonet plug" - an old "square" connector - don't bother, you can't use those anymore (edit: except in small villages in the UK, apparently). Also, the blade is going to be unsafe due to age and different manufacturing. And if it's pre-1982 (your blade probably isn't that old, but for anyone else reading this) - just destroy the drat thing. In tl;dr terms in 1982 a Soviet athlete named Vladimir Smirnov was killed when a then-legal steel blade snapped; since then those old blades have been aggressively banned. If you're looking to get back into the sport, check out thefencingpost.com to order gear. I buy pretty much all of my stuff from them. I recommend All Star/Uhlmann stuff - they're the same company (the Uhlmann stuff is cut a bit differently) and they're a good midpoint between "cheap/beginner crap" and "extremely expensive pro- level stuff." Fencing Post sells good new All Star foils for under $100: https://thefencingpost.com/foil-complete-electric-allstar-ecostar-all-allstar-parts/ Linea blades are a bit less, but don't last as long - they're good for beginner practice: https://thefencingpost.com/foil-complete-electric-stm-colored-blade/ Cessna fucked around with this message at 20:14 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:31
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Sab669 posted:I appreciate the effort post but you definitely misread it Okay, cool - so it's an older (practice) foil with a blunt tip? In that case most of that advice still applies. Clean it with fine steel wool and WD-40 to get the rust off, and check to see if there's a stamp on the base/near the grip to see if it's too old to use safely. Cessna fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Jul 8, 2022 |
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Jul 8, 2022 18:51
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I am looking to get it out of my house, but I didn't want to just chuck it in the garbage.
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Hazzard posted:Look at the hand being thrown out behind the right fencer. That is in manuals, I don't have a source to hand, this was removed from the style before we get lots of images. But this is something in my manuals, seen lots of the best fencers do, both HEMA and MOF, so there's probably something to it. So I'm trying it more. This is a big part of Enzo Lefort's fencing; watch how he pulls back his right hand and attacks with an almost punch-like motion. Link. This is bit odd to me as he's a foil fencer. You see sabre fencers do it because their wrist and arm is a valid target, so keeping it back is more important than foil, where hitting the wrist only results in "off target."
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Aug 29, 2022 15:11
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Xiahou Dun posted:There is a very pretty saber on that site just mocking me. I'm becoming increasingly frustrated and dissatisfied with sabre and am seriously considering switching to foil.
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Sep 26, 2022 16:44
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Crazy Achmed posted:Oh, what's frustrating it about it? I find it fun for a change every so often, but I'm just not fit enough to keep up in the 4m. 80%+ of the points take place entirely in the box. It's "ready, fence" and a game of quick-draw rock-paper-scissors that's resolved by the ref looking at distinctions ("your elbow was just slightly less extended") that are so fine that I can't meaningfully correct them when I move; as a result, it feels like a succession of coin-flips that I usually lose to 14 year old kids with xBox trained reflexes who the ref likes better. At least in foil there's back-and-forth. It feels like I'm actually doing something as opposed to just launching into a coin-toss. Edit: And I don't think it's "fitness" in the box. I'm in good shape; I think it's just raw reflexes, which aren't something you can practically train.
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Sep 27, 2022 14:57
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Exactly, yes. When you go to video review and review frame by frame still can't get anywhere near a consistent call with multiple refs reviewing it (as happened to me at a recent tournament) I think you've reached the point where the sport is meaningless. I'm hard pressed to think of another sport like this. It's like playing baseball where there's no defined strike zone at all and the call is based on whether the ump thinks you could have hit the ball or not. It could be really fun, but it's just too arbitrary.
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Sep 27, 2022 18:36
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Ravenfood posted:While I agree with you about sabre, you can train reflexes. Both physically and mentally. Drill helps. You don't need to train "reflexes" you need to train the appropriate reaction, and that is drillable. Maybe you can, but I'm having a tough time with it, enough to the point that I'm frustrated and feel like I'm making no progress or improvement. Cessna fucked around with this message at 19:56 on Sep 27, 2022 |
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Sep 27, 2022 19:37
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Checks cord connection, subtly slips ref a bottle of whiskey with a few bills stuck to the label.
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Sep 28, 2022 15:57
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Good article from the LA Times on fencing when you're older, here. This lines up with my experiences.
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Dec 16, 2022 22:42
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Looking good! I should try epee.
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Feb 2, 2023 15:53
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Are you planning to murder someone?
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Feb 7, 2023 16:18
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Saw this grip at a tournament last weekend. It's 3d printed titanium: I didn't want to spend THAT much, so I bought this instead. It weighs 46 grams:  I love the applied technology.
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Feb 23, 2023 18:17
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ImplicitAssembler posted:Do you need to add a large weight to balance it? Or is that less of an issue with pistol grips? The printed grip was on an epee. I'm not really an epee fencer, but the blade is heavier than a foil blade - with practically nothing to balance it out it felt weird. I suspect that if I got used to it there wouldn't be a problem. The light grip on my foil feels great.
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Feb 23, 2023 20:51
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