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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:I'm looking into learning some Rapier, but the only place that offers lessons around here is the SCA. How much dorky fuckery should I expect? Where are you located? If you're looking for historical they may be the only option, but there are a lot of new clubs even in the past year all around the country. And SCA depends highly on the group region. In my area there's a big crossover with folks who really know their poo poo, but that's no true everywhere.
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Mar 4, 2015 01:26
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:I'm in Edmonton :/. I actually heard good things about the people there in regards to personality. The HEMA club finder lists at least 1 group in Edmonton, though I have no idea if they are any good. To add to what others have said, yes a good SCA(or HEMA group) teacher should be able to tell you what texts they are studying from, where they learned, and basic stuff like explaining how a historical stance and lunge differ from modern sport fencing. They are mechanically different. A lot of SCA fencers come from a sport fencing background, so they are closer to accuracy in many respects compared to the rattan fighters, if they are are just using sport fencing technique with a metal rapier they are doing it wrong. You can also look at videos that folks in the thread recommend as "good technique" to get an idea, though it is still an evolving art and there is going to be some disagreement. The SCA varies greatly in it's rapier community and while you have some very knowledgeable people on the coasts, you're going to get a crapshoot in smaller population areas like Alberta, where you might have an amazing person teaching you, or you may have a guy who has learned 3rd hand because that's what is available in the area. IM_DA_DECIDER posted:I've done olympic fencing for many years, so I know how game-y it is. Ain't gonna pistol grip twist turn flick someone with a rapier... Historical fencing is going to be about both constraining your opponent and disengages once you get past the basics. Running in and throwing a super fast lunge only takes one so far.
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Mar 4, 2015 19:47
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:Oh, that's useful! I've actually been to the one club listed, but they don't do rapier and are also far too expensive for me Everything is going to be a compromise as far as accuracy, you can always be more historical. Just recognize what compromises are made. I believe the SCA ruleset has some specific stuff about cuts, acting out injuries and whatnot but if you have a good group it can be fun. They do ask you dress up in a vaguely historical manner for official events(not practice) but that's like their only requirement.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:24
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Verisimilidude posted:I'm just wary of the SCA because I remember a video of a group demonstrating the zwerchhau, but that the move is blocked by a shield, so you should jump to hit over it. He does this little hop in his armor, it's adorable. Sadly I haven't been able to find it again. SCA heavy armor fighting is probably the least historically accurate form of anything in the HEMA community. That's not to say that some people who do it don't know actual technique, but in general it's heavily adapted to the specifically SCA rattan context and not really historical at all. Alot of it is just "I like to hit people with sticks on weekends" which is fine if that's what you're into.
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Mar 4, 2015 21:37
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Yeah it's probably not going to be a killing blow but cutting someone is entirely valid with the tip of a rapier.
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Mar 5, 2015 00:08
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^^^^ I assume sword porn is OK in this threadKo_Sine posted:As far as I know, sidesword was a mistranslation. It is just an earlier rapier. It was developed earlier than the rapier but is distinct from it and was used in parallel.
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Mar 10, 2015 21:23
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P-Mack posted:I've never really heard anyone bitch much about any particular mask model, compared to the constant complaints I hear about gloves. Yeah pretty much any 3 weapons fencing mask and a back of head protection is fine. Gloves are where the equipment holy wars are housed(also swords). Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Mar 10, 2015 |
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Mar 10, 2015 22:20
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Siivola posted:Man, I should go back to the rapier classes, Capoferro is pretty cool. (You should check out the illustrations in the pdf I linked earlier, yowch! Get a heavier pommel.
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Mar 11, 2015 23:20
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) It's just that the rapier is so friggin' heavy and difficult and I'm a complete wuss about it.
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Rodrigo Diaz posted:wrong. Get swole. Work those flexors Both, also get a more bio-mechanically correct stance. But people often have a rapier that is a bit tip heavy and have a better time moving the balance point back.
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Mar 12, 2015 00:02
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HEY GAL posted:I think it's funny that this is the same thread that had a debate about whether or not women are strong enough to fence men Women are only able to pick up 1 pound weapons.  
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Mar 12, 2015 03:36
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Verisimilidude posted:Gender politics in HEMA are so loving bad. Feminism is generally viewed as this archaic thing ran by tumblr stereotypes, and the woman's group Esfinges gets poo poo on constantly because it holds functions and classes specifically for women. The word "egalitarian" gets thrown around a lot. It's about as bad as you'd expect from a group predominately full of nerdy men who also have masculinity issues attached to competition and weapons. The issue of weather racism or sexism is a problem in HEMA was asked to the facebook group and all the white men said "no this is a really egalitarian hobby!" but "there's going to be some teasing and if you can't take it we don't want you.". Whereas most of the women and racial minority men were like "yeah of course there's some bigoted assholes, at least as much as anywhere else". Also discussing women's lists in tournaments is pretty much a guaranteed flame war on that group.
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Mar 12, 2015 17:39
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ibntumart posted:Happy to say this isn't something I've noticed so far at my classes. I also don't belong to any HEMA-related mailing lists or Facebook pages. My group fairly good too, but it's always gonna differ from group to group. And yeah don't read any HEMA facebook group, there are some real shitheads.
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Mar 12, 2015 20:57
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This is also easily testable. Try starting your swing with a longsword prior to moving your feet, and try it after your feet. Your timing will be consistently too slow if you lead with feet. With rapier, the lunge is mechanically different than a modern lunge and you will need to be moving your hands first. Swords aren't a tennis swing, if you are applying a ton of power you are probably making too large a movement and over-extending yourself.
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Mar 17, 2015 18:32
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IM_DA_DECIDER posted:What's the difference? There's a variety of claims as far as movement with regards to historical swordfighting, but the accepted mechanics in the community is hands before feet. Some are claiming that you do not lead with hands if you want to generate speed and power, but that isn't really true in historical swordfighting. As far as historical rapier lunge, I posted a video upthread. Capoferro/Giganti lunges look and are different from a modern lunge.
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Mar 17, 2015 19:01
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ImplicitAssembler posted:I got 15 years+ of kendo experience, I have competed internationally (not very succesfully, mind you). I've done some iai and are now also doing Katori Shinto Ryu. If you want to have a pissing match on experience, my regular teachers have 30-40 years experience teaching specifically european historical swordfighting between them, and they tend to agree with these videos. There's going to be some disagreement when you're discussing stuff that is 400 years or more removed from modern experience and that's why scholarship, research, and practice all are important. If you have a specific academic argument about why HEMA practitioners are doing it wrong, go pull out some research and explain it to them. These are people who study this, some professionally, and I'm sure many of them have experience with Kendo and other arts, and modern fencing. I'd wager that even most of them do. The point is, if you disagree, provide some support and relevant research, there's way, way too much of this "you're doing it wrong, I do a vaguely related thing somebody listen to meeeeee" poo poo already online, especially on martial arts boards. Maybe you're right, but a whole lot of people who are considered knowledgeable in this field tend to disagree with you. The immediate dismissal kinda offputting though.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:28
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Liquid Communism posted:Period rapiers weigh in about the same as a single-handed sword of their day, 2-3 lbs. They don't really have stiff enough spines for a percussive blow to shatter bone like a broadsword's will, but they'd be plenty nasty. Not to mention how badly headwounds like that bleed. Yeah for the most part the serious injuries from rapiers are from stabs, not that it's impossible to kill with a cut provided your sword is sharp enough. I believe(don't quote me) that historically rapiers would have only been sharpened near the tip to 6" from. Also there's possibly made-up stories of folks hammering their point slightly so that it was jacked and caused a cut that wouldn't close easily, though I dunno that folks would do that to their expensive weapons. Heavier swords, no doubt.
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Mar 23, 2015 21:35
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Han Feizi posted:Does anyone know of anywhere around Camp Pendleton where I could learn historical fencing? I have always had a fascination with the rapier but most HEMA around here is devoted to longsword. Your closest club is indeed longsword, which despite the somewhat corny name, is run by a very well respected teacher. There is also an SCA rapier practice in the area with a couple of very good teachers but it's entirely free and volunteer and if you're not planning on dressing up and going to their events it may not be for you. North in LA, there's Kron and Tattershall, the former in Fullerton and the latter in Long Beach. That's the south part of LA so not as bad a drive. Kron is again a primarily longsword group but also does have dedicated rapier practices. Tattershall is more rapier centric but also does some different weapons. Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Apr 12, 2015 |
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Apr 12, 2015 20:50
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tirinal posted:SCA is very hit or miss, and usually if there's a competing WMA school nearby people will self-select accordingly, but it's worth going to at least once to see who attends. Some of them just like the clothes and some just put up with the clothes. Kron usually puts in a showing but they do have like 100 people.
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Apr 12, 2015 21:29
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Han Feizi posted:drat, due to my schedule Tattershall is out, and it actually looks like Kron and Chivalry Today are equidistant. I was very put off by Chivalry Today's cheese, but if you say the instructor is very well regarded I may have to consider it! Kron seems like it has a bigger following, and more of a community though. Scott(Chivalry Today) is a hella nice guy, just super geeked out about historical stuff. He's very well respected for his teaching and technical knowledge. Kron is a very large group, owing the fact they have an essentially free space on a college campus and some very active leadership/members. Most other groups rent space and charge decent amounts of money because of that. They also run the annual Socal Swordfight HEMA convention in the LA area and have a couple of satellite groups(all north of the OC one, though). Again, they are primarily a longsword group, but they have several dedicated rapier fighters who cross over with other groups in the area as well.
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Apr 13, 2015 21:42
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long term is knees, especially if you're doing rapier in sparring, hands easily is the most commonly injured
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May 18, 2015 01:10
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