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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

I hear you. My prior history comes from SCA heavy, and that has rather influenced me in wanting to learn the basket hilted sword, because the movements and tactics are familiar.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

EvilMerlin posted:

Funny thing is, thats how I got my start in HEMA.

Did SCA heavy since Pennsic XX. Did a bunch of fighting in lovely carpet armour and such and slowly started actually learning about armour and swords. By Pennsic XXX I was in a full plate harness, and having a blast. But once I got my AoA, politics started creeping in and I found my way out of the SCA and accidentally ran into folks doing HEMA. Haven't looked back since.

Been to two Pennsics since I started in HEMA, and I was there to teach HEMA and harness fighting. Had a good time but was glad I was only there for a few days.

What up carpet armor buddy. My first suit was hideous tan/brown shag. Worked pretty well, actually, for the couple months until I got around to building some brig.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

EvilMerlin posted:

I went with a set of homemade leather backed Type I coat of plates (from Battle of Visby). And a loving MASSIVE tank of a flat top barrel helm...

Canvas-backed Type 3 (vertical instead of horizontal plates) for me, but same. I ditched the loaner barrel helm for a bascinet though, as I got tired of getting rung like a bell. :v:

Eventually made 'stealth' brig that closed on both sides instead of the back and had shoulders strapped like a Japanese Do, and threw a tunic over.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 23:19 on Nov 19, 2018

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

EvilMerlin posted:

Yeah that was one of the first things I swapped out. I had Adam at White Mountain Armoury (long gone) make me one of the first kettle helms he ever made for SCA fighting.

I fought in this with a corrizina for a while



Then updated to a better 9 piece breastplate and better leg and arms:

I'm on the right. Didn't have time to attach my aventail here before this demo:



Then into a Al Tadesca harness (milanese made, gothic style)



and finally into this (I'm on the left)



That's some drat nice harness, thanks for sharing it!

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

I got to play with a Castille feder the other day that had spray on truck bed liner for a grip. It works really well with gloves. Would eat your hands up a bit barehanded though.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Unzip and Attack posted:

OMG that thing is beautiful.

Wow, yeah it is.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

EvilMerlin posted:

Prices are not all that bad either.

I just wish more people made Federschwert without Meyer style grips. That thing is LONG. Almost 11 inches. And add another 1.5 or so for the pommels.

I like a long grip, but then I am a long person.

Dangit, I have no opportunity to do longsword work right now, I should not be coveting a feder.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

More than likely. I'm 4" taller than you, though, so the extra hilt space makes it easier to have good hand position for me.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

I think what's coming across is similar to learning martial arts by doing just katas vs training against a resisting opponent.

It's absolutely possible to learn some of it. Cutting is one of those things. However when it comes to fighting a resisting opponent, the most worthwhile training for it is doing it. Versimilitude's suggestion of doing seminars is good, but still going to be slower and harder going than regular classes with an instructor who can give realtime feedback and with chances to really spar.

We should honestly take this to the HEMA thread. :v:

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Xiahou Dun posted:

Whelp. Guess I got more poo poo to buy.

I've got a cup, a jacket, gloves that look like they're for handling radioactive materials, heavy leather gloves and a mask.

What am I missing?

A sword, obviously. A gorget, I want something to protect at least my messed up knee because I like walking*, probably a chest-protector, what am I missing? O and I need back of the neck/over the head covering for the mask.

I quit smoking to afford this kit but just listing it is making me want to smoke. Jesus.

*I've just been wearing my old brace but I just know it's a matter of time until something goes wrong and I've had my fair share of knee surgery, thank you.

Hard knees are dirt cheap compared to knee surgery. :) Same with gorgets and throats.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Xiahou Dun posted:

Ain’t gotta tell me twice! I had to walk with a cane for a couple years.

The red text is from not properly documenting my physical therapy as I tried to climb the three flights of stairs to my apartment. Knee injuries ssssuuuuck.

If getting everyone to just never swing at my left leg was an option, I’d take it in an instant. Barring that I want the biggest gently caress off knee protection made by man. I’m not opposed to going into sparring with one leg in a loving M1 Abrams tank. If you got deets on good knee protection let me know.

I hear you, I've had to have one knee fixed already myself, and the other will finish tearing any year now.

As far as what to wear, depends on what pants you're rocking, really. When I was able to have time to spar I was still rolling in my old SCA articulated kydex 5-lame knees, which were seriously overkill but I had them and they were comfortable.

Something similar to these. Neyman's knees in the same ~30 buck price range look good as well, I like having wings on the sides of the knee. I haven't used either of those myself, and the folks who get to do this more often will likely have much better suggestions for you since gear has apparently advanced a lot in the last few years!

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

EvilMerlin posted:

I wish we could do this. Most of the clubs in the US can barely afford to pay rent, let alone keep spare feders around.

I did this with some Castilles, but they all disappeared...

The universal constant, people are scum. :smith:

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

How was the delivery time from Neyman? I like the look of their stuff, but wasn't sure what kind of turnaround they do.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Guy Windsor has posted the second part of his Basic Historical Rapier workbook as pay-what-you-want : https://gumroad.com/l/QXXYy

He says the third should be out next month.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 07:25 on Jan 25, 2019

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Seems like a good rule if you're going for style over substance.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Crazy Achmed posted:

I'm sure I'm being terrible and elitist but honestly this sounds super cringey. But I always thought that fighting with a weightless blade that vaporises everything instantly would basically be epee, because why would you ever do anything other than be super cagey and go for maximum range touches to your opponent's wrist?

Remember that they weren't going for Age of Sail swashbuckling, they were cribbing from Kurosawa films.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Well, George saw some wushu competition forms and there was no stopping him...

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

I am not a kendoka, but it looks a lot to me like that's an attempt to get their opponents to misjudge their intentions and timing.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

The majority of those dudes aren't wearing face protection. :gibs:

Also, what the hell is going on with the armor? It's almost universally terribly fitted where it is built correctly at all.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Yeah, that puzzled me too, because the stuff on their blog talks about recreating Warring States period fighting. IIRC that would have been at best matchlocks based off of Portuguese designs...

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Check out ARMA's collection. The closest thing I know of for actual fighting manuals period-wise would be I.33, but that's just sword and buckler, not really as comparable.

For sword and shield, I'd look to reenactors. Hurstwic has some stuff here.

Maybe also look at the Cateran Society's stuff on broadsword and targe, most of which seem to be based on Thomas Paine's “Use of the Highland Broadsword”. A viking era sword is going to be balanced differently, and the shield will be larger, but the principals will be more likely to compare than the smaller bucklers used in most rapier systems or I.33. That's a shot in the dark, though. I learned shieldwork in the SCA, which means I have bad habits based on the gear and rules of the game as compared to what would serve in a real fight.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Internet Wizard posted:

Anybody have any experience or opinions about Rocky Mountain Swordplay Guild? I’m looking to start taking some historical fencing classes and they look like my closest option. The local SCA group has fighting practice closer to my apartment but I’ve gotten the impression that a HEMA school will give me a better instruction on reconstructed techniques than SCA.

I have a preference towards earlier period weapons like longsword and spear for no reason other than I think they look cooler, so I’m open to whatever is close enough and works with my schedule/budget if there are other schools in the Boulder/Longmont area that focus on other weapons/periods but have better cadre/classmates.

Depends entirely on the interests of your HEMA club vs local SCA chapter.

There's people doing SCA fencing who are deeply interested in learning historical styles just the same as there's people in HEMA who are there for the sport of modern competitive longsword and don't give a gently caress about historic method beyond the basics.

I'd advise going to whichever one strikes your fancy and seeing if you mesh with the people and if they're interested in doing the stuff you're into. I bounced off my local HEMA club for that reason, I'm much more interested in backsword/broadsword, but all they really want to do is early German longsword, which doesn't appeal much to me. Decent enough seeming people, though.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Flunges are why I know I'm not an oly sabre enthusiast.

Such a silly over-stylized 'attack', but it fits within the rules as specified.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Tennis balls are good, I also like a 2" ring on a string hung from the ceiling for lunging practice.

Easiest thing, though, is footwork practice. You can do it anywhere and it requires nothing.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Siivola posted:

If money is not an object, Albion Swords and Arms and Armor make great replicas.

Solo training material for HEMA of any kind is kind of scarce, unfortunately. The Bolognese sources are the only period material I can think of that have any meaningful stuff for solo practice. They've got stuff for the single sword (and you can entirely well use a simple cross-hilted sword for it), sword and buckler, and two-handed sword, and some polearms and other stuff besides.

However, if you just want to get training, I'd recommend checking this out:

I've trained with Guy and his stuff is honestly pretty good. I might quibble about certain details of his interpretations but I've found his teaching materials very solid.

Guy's stuff is definitely solid.

You can work a lot of the saber/backsword/broadsword cuts with an arming sword as well. Roworth's not a terrible place to start to get a feel for basic cuts.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9d_ulKNRCkk

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

ImplicitAssembler posted:

We start (kendo) again on Sunday, with special face shields and mask. It's gonna suck, but it's better than not doing kendo.

Yeah, we have theoretical approval to go back to small group outdoor work in July, but given the state of things are just going to not. Another couple months vs someone taking COVID home to their kids is an easy decision.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

That's actually something I like better about SCA cut & thrust. Most of the people I fenced (back when fencing in person was a thing) wore fencing helms instead of three weapon masks.

Even a relatively light steel helmet, strapped and padded properly, is way better to take a shot to the crown of the head in.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

HEMA sabre is everything I thought sabre would be when I took up fencing back in college.

I'm absolutely no good at it though, it needs more wrist and shoulder mobility than my beat up old rear end can manage.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Makes sense. Few small clubs could afford to just not have most of their membership for a year and stay in business. HEMA's feeling the same pinch.

https://www.keithfarrell.net/blog/2021/01/finding-motivation-to-return-to-teaching-hema-this-year/

My local HEMA club's been shut down since late May last year and is probably going to have to find a new location whenever they can come back.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

That throw crossed the line to 'dick move' for me when the thrower had the other fighter hoisted up by the short ribs and helpless (because you're not going to kick someone in the dick or start throwing pommel strikes in sparring), then paused for a moment before deciding to slam him on a wood floor with his own body weight behind it anyway.


It absolutely read to me like only one of them knew that was on the table.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 01:59 on Mar 18, 2021

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Yeah, more than a bit of a side-eye from me to the ref as well for not calling the point and stopping it.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Nektu posted:

Tbh wrestling and swordfighting goes hand in hand in the sources. The throws from the sources that I know offer better control of your opponents weapon than that supplex though.

If the rules are changed to encourage throws though, the tournaments will absolutely turn into MMA-like fights where most fights will just end up on the ground after a few exchanges from range.

So add daggers as secondary weapon to keep the ground portions nice and quick I'd say.

It'd be kinda darkly hilarious to see more often, because I know very few HEMA practitioners who know how to deal with an opponent shooting for a double-leg. :D

Absolutely don't want to see it though, tourneys already have a terrible problem with people utterly ignoring defense and just doubling instead.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

I think tournaments are important as gatherings, because if you're going to treat HEMA as a martial art, the real test of it is a resisting opponent who isn't the same guy you train with every week. Plus since so many of the arts have fragmentary at best primary sources, seeing others' interpretations is good.

On the other hand tournament rules could really use a lot more thought in some cases, as they get geared towards sporting play.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

I'd honestly be more worried about concussion, were I to get thrown in my HEMA gear. Fencing masks aren't made to mitigate that kind of impact, especially from say landing on the back of your head getting dumped on a hardwood floor.

Part of why I think we're going to see movement towards fencing helms for longsword as well, because they also don't fully mitigate taking a downward blow to the crown of the head. I know I'd be much more comfortable taking that kind of shot in my old SCA helm than in a fencing mask, even with a hard back.

Liquid Communism fucked around with this message at 07:31 on Mar 22, 2021

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Part of that awareness is meant to be being prepared for a strike from a 'dying' opponent, is it not? That's something I wish HEMA scoring was better about, a lot of the tourney bouts you can watch should end in doubles because so many throw away all pretense of defense.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Crazy Achmed posted:

Seconde is basically octave but with your knuckles up rather than thumb up. It feels a bit slower to me but can be done with a low or high hand pretty easily depending on where the attack is coming in. Works great against someone running past you but makes me look like a chump if they see it coming and disengage.
What’s the low prime meant to be for?

Defending against the thrust to the lower torso/cut to the leading leg, iirc.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Cessna posted:

Anyone else's clubs opening back up?

We can get in and fence if we show a vaccine card.

July is the current plan.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Kestral posted:

Done and done - thanks for the effortpost!

Seconding this, I greatly enjoyed my time with longsword. It'll also encourage you to do some interesting new routines at the gym, because boy those are not the same muscle groups. Also seconding the "as long as it's not dangerous" part, I never had so many injuries as I did in my time with a pre-HEMA longsword group that was basically just working out of someone's backyard with some printouts of period manuals. Find people who acknowledge that swinging large relatively heavy pieces of metal around at high speeds can be dangerous and who make safety a priority, and it's a great time.

Yeah, there's real problem in the less reputable parts of HEMA with rampant disregard of safety gear, and mistaking hitting harder for being faster.

That said, HEMA is a ton of fun. I've got my broadsword in a happier place now and I'm working on making a hilt for a dirk to go with it:

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Consider some historical military sabre. Whole different game with an actual blade simulator instead of a wire whip.

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Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004

Lucky kid to have a parent willing to put in the effort!

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