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hobbesmaster posted:You realize that this only requires federal approval because it's international right? Tons of pipelines are being built to transport the same stuff across the same areas that are domestic. This is an incredibly stupid fight to put up. All those domestic oil sands oil pipelines.
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Jan 13, 2015 01:30
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Trains are perfectly capable of getting something across a border and into another mode of transit.
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Jan 13, 2015 01:38
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Shadoer posted:You know I'm surprised more of the american left isn't in favor of the pipeline. It would lower the cost of Alberta Tar Sands Oil which, while messy, is utterly destroying a portion of the planet no one lives on.
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Jan 13, 2015 02:10
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hobbesmaster posted:You realize that this only requires federal approval because it's international right? Tons of pipelines are being built to transport the same stuff across the same areas that are domestic. This is an incredibly stupid fight to put up. I'm aware, but given the logic for Keystone XL I should never oppose any pipeline because pipeline = less trains and trucks and it's futile anyway. Its utility to me due to its rather high profile nature is as a symbolic victory that says our focus is not entirely on oil.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:17
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Nebraska farmers rely on the Ogallala Aquifer and everything else in Nebraska relies on the farmers so it's kind of a big deal.
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Jan 13, 2015 03:53
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And this oil pipeline is different from all the ones that already cross the aquifer because...?
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Jan 13, 2015 04:23
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hobbesmaster posted:And this oil pipeline is different from all the ones that already cross the aquifer because...? Because diluted bitumen is a bitch to clean up.
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Jan 13, 2015 04:43
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hobbesmaster posted:And this oil pipeline is different from all the ones that already cross the aquifer because...?
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Jan 13, 2015 05:15
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hobbesmaster posted:And this oil pipeline is different from all the ones that already cross the aquifer because...? it's not regular oil or something idk I just oppose it because I live here and it's the right thing to do.
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Jan 13, 2015 05:22
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THC posted:Well if you have one toxic goop pipe there is a n chance of it springing a leak and ruining the surrounding ecosystem. If you have two toxic goop pipes there is now an n+m chance of one of them leaking.  n + m - 2nm of exactly one. Strudel Man fucked around with this message at 06:06 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 06:04
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Probability is some kind of hosed up hell sorcery if you ask me.
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Jan 13, 2015 07:01
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it also depends on whether the events of each toxic goop pipe leaking are independent
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Jan 13, 2015 07:33
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Could someone explain to an ignorant motherfucker (me) what the Keystone XL is? I keep hearing it thrown around in correlation with oil, but all I hear is political rhetoric and slurs. Is it a giant pipe from canada that will dump oil into America?
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Jan 13, 2015 08:09
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Lyrai posted:Could someone explain to an ignorant motherfucker (me) what the Keystone XL is? I keep hearing it thrown around in correlation with oil, but all I hear is political rhetoric and slurs. Is it a giant pipe from canada that will dump oil into America? It's a super cheap pipe from Canada that will super safely carry super clean shale oil from Alberta through territory illegally occupied by Indians to the refineries of the oil companies in the Gulf for the betterment of all. I don't know why we haven't built this yet.
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Jan 13, 2015 08:19
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don't think we don't see your anti-locomotive votes, Corker the people of Chattanooga will hear of this!
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Jan 13, 2015 08:25
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hobbesmaster posted:Trains are perfectly capable of getting something across a border and into another mode of transit. I interviewed with a major commodity chemical manufacturer a month ago and they were bitching that the defeat of the Keystone XL is going to put ~sooo~ much strain on our rail system, and that also due to our domestic oil production boom railcars are getting expensive again. He said that although this means he has to pay more for transport to customers, the good news for NC is that a railcar manufacturer that shut down is recently is going to reopen and add back 300 jobs. If I were a democrat, that might make a nice little talking point, y'know, creating jobs by NOT building the pipeline. Oh wait democrats never pick talking points at all .
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Jan 13, 2015 08:55
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Feral_Shofixti posted:It's a super cheap pipe from Canada that will super safely carry super clean shale oil from Alberta through territory illegally occupied by Indians to the refineries of the oil companies in the Gulf for the betterment of all. Excuse me, its not shale oil but oil sands oil. Please don't call it tar sands either, it hurts people's feelings and thats not allowed on a Canadian project of this scale!
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Jan 13, 2015 08:57
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Just call it Mordor Juice
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Jan 13, 2015 09:20
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Trabisnikof posted:Excuse me, its not shale oil but oil sands oil. Please don't call it tar sands either, it hurts people's feelings and thats not allowed on a Canadian project of this scale! I apologize goon sir. From heretofore I shall call it by it's rightful name: oil sands oil. It's a super cheap pipe from Canada that will super safely carry super clean I don't know why we haven't built this yet. Corsair Pool Boy fucked around with this message at 09:58 on Jan 13, 2015 |
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Jan 13, 2015 09:55
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THC posted:People do live there actually. A lot of them are indigenous tho so yeah I can see why the american "left" would not care if they all die of cancer Err no, not really. Life up in northern Alberta is pretty terrible so the reserves with indigenous populations are sparse as well as the towns that are around there. Most of the indigenous populations already have deals regarding tar sands development and usually have a large segment of the population work in the tar sands (there's really not much else to do there anyways). Also most of the development is being done outside of population centers anyways, so things like increasing cancer risk there isn't much of a problem. No the risk to the indigenous population is really overstated and just propaganda. Now the animals that live there, they are getting royally hosed over. Their homes are systematically being trashed and they are getting loads of wonderful chemicals that will completely gently caress them up, the bio diversity of the vegetation there is being eliminated, and the food supply is being decimated.
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Jan 13, 2015 12:35
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Mr. Pool posted:I interviewed with a major commodity chemical manufacturer a month ago and they were bitching that the defeat of the Keystone XL is going to put ~sooo~ much strain on our rail system, and that also due to our domestic oil production boom railcars are getting expensive again. He said that although this means he has to pay more for transport to customers, the good news for NC is that a railcar manufacturer that shut down is recently is going to reopen and add back 300 jobs. If I were a democrat, that might make a nice little talking point, y'know, creating jobs by NOT building the pipeline. Oh wait democrats never pick talking points at all . Nobody cares about trains other than fishmech. Remember how Scott Walker took a stand against high speed rail between Chicago and Minneapolis despite it meaning that a Wisconsin company that produces trains would go out of business?
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Jan 13, 2015 15:35
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Is this good or bad news for my furniture futures investment plan?Mattress Mack posted:[A]nyone who buys $7,000 worth of furniture or mattresses gets their money back if the price of West Texas intermediate crude oil is $85 or more per barrel at the close of trading on Dec. 31. http://www.chron.com/houston/article/New-Mattress-Mack-challenge-might-singlehandedly-6006419.php
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Jan 13, 2015 18:06
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hobbesmaster posted:Nobody cares about trains other than fishmech. Remember how Scott Walker took a stand against high speed rail between Chicago and Minneapolis despite it meaning that a Wisconsin company that produces trains would go out of business? He had friends in a current rail line that donated to his campaign, and right after he vetoed the HSR, he approved funds for their rail line to be upgraded. Said rail line was going to be shuttered or something if HSR got approved. They have no problems with trains, it is just whose pockets the money will end up going into is all.
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Jan 13, 2015 19:48
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hobbesmaster posted:Nobody cares about trains other than fishmech. Remember how Scott Walker took a stand against high speed rail between Chicago and Minneapolis despite it meaning that a Wisconsin company that produces trains would go out of business? Nobody cares about trains , but everybody cares about ~jobs~ My point being that democrats love being terrible at PR
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Jan 13, 2015 23:47
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Roumba posted:Is this good or bad news for my furniture futures investment plan? Oh Mattress Mack, that man is a gem.
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Jan 14, 2015 00:25
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Mr. Pool posted:Nobody cares about trains , but everybody cares about ~jobs~ The Republican problem seems to be that after successfully co-opting and then cultivating John Birch style insanity and riding it to numerous election victories they've become victims of their own success and the inmates are getting closer and closer to running the asylum. It's created a major structural problem for the GOP where they can hold the House and maybe the Senate for a long time but have issues putting forward a nationally competitive Presidential candidate who is acceptable to their increasingly crazy "base". The Democrats actually have a parallel structural problem that you've just pointed at. On the one hand the Democrats need a populist economic message to attract their core constituents to the ballot box. But the Democrats also need money to be competitive and that means keeping some parts of the corporate or financial world happy or at least appealing to multimillionar donors. And those folks passionately hate even the mildest kinds of populist appeals. Just look at how much Obama's Wall Street buddies flipped out when he made the most mildly critical comments about their bonuses. It isn't hard to see why politicians and political institutions have become so reviled in America, even compared to other countries. Both the Democrats and the Republics need to manage so many contradictory positions at once to actually have a hope at winning that the mind simply balks at the ludicrousness of the entire system.
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Jan 14, 2015 01:20
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Phallus Malice posted:Oh Mattress Mack, that man is a gem. Having grown up in Houston, I can't hate him, but he doesn't make it easy.
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Jan 14, 2015 03:52
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Whiskey Sours posted:Because diluted bitumen is a bitch to clean up. This is a lie. Please explain to me the difference between Syncrude sweet and California Sour, Maya and Saudi sour. Keystone is being blocked because if that were allowed, then the US would be in a position to be a net exporter of energy, which would push Mexico, Venezuela and Saudi Arabia out of their source for cheap petro dollars, which countries like Venezuela and Mexico literally rely on to keep their countries cash happy and money laundering profitable. Its all about oligarchs voting, and nobody does pork like Tom Steyer and King Abdulla, who both donated well in excess of their personal caps since 2004 to the PACS, and were key leaders on making super PACS. Tommy boy alone runs about 300 million to his 4 green organizations, while using an offshore tax slush fund to take advantage of NGO profit loopholes, plus the 28 million in personal contributions he has made since 2009. It got so bad, investors threatened to revoke his hedge funds tax status, and his bank which manages the hedge fund's assets threatened to shut him down, unless he stopped using client money fees to fund his politics vs. paying his employees. Certain people since Fox donate well over 7 million to a DNC PAC every two months. Thats just one group out of the Mexican consulate who have been doing this since Clinton's first term. So you all can do some google fu and figure out how much black cash flows back into the special project funds (reelection or non-regulated advertisement sponsorship programs). Since Hillary was a special advisor to Girling at Keystone, Obama needs to block keystone as the alternative is his two largest supporters will withold their support going forward for his bloc going forward, like Rahim and Cuomo, which would make him a lame duck power broker on par with Carter when he leaves in 2016. That information should get goons frothing for a long time. Google it, I'm pretty close to the situation and nothing I said is a lie, or is very well hidden by Tom's press handler/talent agent at IMG. Tom is also a delusional loser who dreams to be President in 2025, and ex-Katzenburg has zero friends or even close drinking buddies in the Bay Area democrats. He literally has to pay everyone just to show up to his stupid events. Even Tez, who has tried to quit 3 times on him while at a NGO a few years ago. Imagine the worst goon on here? now imagine he's past his prime, his kids hate him, and he has zero street cred. That's Tom and this bullshit Keystone adventure. Feel free to refute anything I said, I'll be not responding. Hal_2005 fucked around with this message at 08:10 on Jan 14, 2015 |
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Jan 14, 2015 08:06
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Oh no no no gently caress you if you intend to drop something like that be all "peace I'm out". Please explain how you are close to the situation and what the deal with Tom Seyer is, I'd never even heard of him before you brought him up.
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Jan 14, 2015 08:18
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Tie the bill to a public insurance option, light rail funding, and extended unemployment benefits. I want some angry clusterfuck tirades.
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Jan 14, 2015 09:25
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Hal_2005 posted:Feel free to refute anything I said, I'll be not responding.
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Jan 14, 2015 09:58
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I would like to build the Keystone XL pipeline but only if we use it to transport Keystone Light instead
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Jan 14, 2015 18:36
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It's really cute when tar sand boosters decry corruption by the dastardly green lobby 
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Jan 14, 2015 22:14
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Hal_2005 posted:This is a lie. Please explain to me the difference between Syncrude sweet and California Sour, Maya and Saudi sour. Syncrude is a company you dummy. I guess they do have their own products but whatever you're getting at still doesn't make sense It is not a lie. if a leak were to occur the diluent would evaporate and you'd be left with bitumen. Bitumen does not evaporate like most higher API crudes. it is hard to clean. Imagine taking peanut butter. Melting it into a nice fluid substance similar to water. Pouring it all over your furniture so it seeps through the cushions. And let it cool so it turns back into regular peanut butter. Try cleaning that.
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Jan 14, 2015 22:50
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THC posted:It's really cute when tar sand boosters decry corruption by the dastardly green lobby Americans For Unsullied Pelicans vs. Americans For Clean Energy Independence.
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Jan 14, 2015 22:57
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Nothing is greener than a coal mining company fighting an oil drilling company. Ah yes, because if we import more crude oil, we'll burn less coal 
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Jan 14, 2015 23:05
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Trabisnikof posted:Ah yes, because if we import more crude oil, we'll burn less coal That statement was meant ironically, as in, nothing presents themselves as green as a coal company etc. Thus the catchy .org names.
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Jan 14, 2015 23:42
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Obdicut posted:That statement was meant ironically, as in, nothing presents themselves as green as a coal company etc. Thus the catchy .org names. Cloud Peak Energy sounds the greenest to me 
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Jan 15, 2015 00:05
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never happy posted:Syncrude is a company you dummy. I guess they do have their own products but whatever you're getting at still doesn't make sense Syncrude sweet is a blend: http://www.crudemonitor.ca/crude.php?acr=SSP Bitumen does nothing, its dirt, held in a diluent (what is diluent you ecological fuckwit ? Well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diluent ) which has an inert flashpoint unless held at well over double a DOT tank car's pressure rating. If you pour it out? it does not turn into anything other than a emulsion tar, no different then the poo poo you pump out of Mexico, Venezuela, Saudi Arabia or California at Bakersfield. In fact, unlike the poo poo rear end blends you likely never loving heard of until I said this post, those blends have a ultra high sulfur content, which is not cleaned out of the oil before shipped to the refinery complex in PADD II / III. Also, since we are on the topic of oil spills, and flash point DOT tankcar explosions, you may want to check those facts on what and where those oil blowouts are happening. It's called Bakken sour. Which is nothing close to the oilsands oil, and is entirely the fault of unionized railroad metheads recklessly driving their trains well beyond the safe capacity limit of the busted obsolete rail system of BNSF/CNX. There has yet to be a oil spill related to a oilsands spill since 2007. Wolf lake, owned by CNQ was a sub-surface leak from a cracked casing, and doesn't count. As for Hillary? Do a google dive on Environmental Resources Management and Feverpress. Now do a google dive for the 3 largest donors holding companies. Bill was very poor in assets, but on a off-shore tax adjusted basis (witholding trusts) they had tons of cash, which only increased when they began doing talking & consulting tours pro-bono while Hillary was Foggy Bottom and a standing Senator. It is and was all technically legal, since the money was off shore, and under pre-2008 tax code nobody had to report offshore assets to the IRS, including a former POTUS. So they still dont. Most dont either, like all those guys who purchased One Place in NYC. They are also have a very loose area of the tax code on moonlighting state or executive branch offices so long as you don't violate state secrets. As for the various donor groups who do actually contribute ? That's all on you to parse donations back to Delaware shell companies and/or Jersey LLC's. It's not like someone can just pastebin a whole donor network without seeking whistleblower status, or being held liable for breaching trust. So either you do some digging or just accept these self indulgent eco-marxist threads are getting really old, and growing more ignorant. So I thought I would step in and say my peace of mind, and add alot of insight to what would otherwise be a dull exercise in carbon capture tax debating. Or you can continue to read prebaked press releases which try to cram down the notion somehow Canadian oil is more carbon negative than the open flaring which is done in Saud, Nigeria and Mexico. Ignorance is bliss I guess. Hal_2005 fucked around with this message at 04:12 on Jan 15, 2015 |
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Jan 15, 2015 04:04
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Hal_2005 posted:Bitumen does nothing, its dirt Actually, it's not. 
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Jan 15, 2015 04:14
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