Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
bbf2
Nov 22, 2007

"The White Shadow"

e X posted:

Has it ever been a popular theory that the Machines are actually the good guys during the movies? Because I maintain that what they did was fundamentally a kindness,albeit a very costly one, at least from their perspective.

Well the series ended with the two sides reaching a truce and Colonel Sanders saying "We machines will honor this forever because its not in our programming to be able to break truces."

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

PassTheRemote
Mar 15, 2007

Number 6 holds The Village record in Duck Hunt.

The first one to kill :laugh: wins.

Cyron posted:

Does matrix even have a rabid fanbase now? i'am sure there are fan of the series and it was hugely popaler back in the day but i don't think it hold on to people's minds as other big name sci-fi, but is doug thinking making fun of it is going to be pages of backlashes. i feel having a charater making fun of a fan base is unnecessary.

If this review was 15 years ago, he'd have a point, but the sequels killed the OMG how great is this movie vibe. Nowadays, there have been so many better action movies. I also think the exposition that Morpheus gives is excellent. It did not become boringly pretentious until the sequels.

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.
You can make a pretty legitimate case that the Matrix is part of the elite club of movies actually tarnished by their sequels, and it kind of made sense. One of the biggest selling points of the Matrix was this incredible world the first movie threw you into, but the sequels got so incredibly convoluted and explainy that it gets kind of harder to watch the first movie without all that baggage

it's like a more extreme version of the star wars prequels

Benny the Snake
Apr 11, 2012

GUM CHEWING INTENSIFIES
I personally think that "Inception" did a better job than "The Matrix". Sure it's more convoluted, but it's that way by nature of the concept which is more complicated than "The Matrix". Dreams are much more complex than whatever an advanced program could come up with by default since dreams come from the brain which is the most advanced device in the world. That and "Inception" was free from the action movie fetishization that "The Matrix" had. No bullet time, no treanch coats, no sunglasses, no angst. I feel that Nolan's film is not only the better film, but it's the film that will age better.

Leal
Oct 2, 2009
So this channel, RebelTaxi, on youtube uploaded a podcast today and apparently one of the guys on there was going to join Channel Awesome, missed a skype call and was pretty much dropped. Mike really doesn't like people not being at the computer doesn't he?

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.

Benny the Snake posted:

I personally think that "Inception" did a better job than "The Matrix". Sure it's more convoluted, but it's that way by nature of the concept which is more complicated than "The Matrix". Dreams are much more complex than whatever an advanced program could come up with by default since dreams come from the brain which is the most advanced device in the world. That and "Inception" was free from the action movie fetishization that "The Matrix" had. No bullet time, no treanch coats, no sunglasses, no angst. I feel that Nolan's film is not only the better film, but it's the film that will age better.

I guess? They're only barely even in the same genre, if at all. Two very different types of movie

Benny the Snake
Apr 11, 2012

GUM CHEWING INTENSIFIES

Vicas posted:

I guess? They're only barely even in the same genre, if at all. Two very different types of movie
In the context of gun-heavy science-fiction action films with the hook of an esoteric, highly variable setting.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Benny the Snake posted:

In the context of gun-heavy science-fiction action films with the hook of an esoteric, highly variable setting.

In the Matrix there's only in the matrix and outside. You got your green filter and your high-contrast white light.

I Am Fowl
Mar 8, 2008

nononononono

e X posted:

Has it ever been a popular theory that the Machines are actually the good guys during the movies? Because I maintain that what they did was fundamentally a kindness,albeit a very costly one, at least from their perspective.

That's the theory I hold to as well--since the human battery theory in the film is a bit silly. You'd get more energy by burning the food that people eat than what you get from the body, let alone when you factor in what is lost in the growing process--all real estate that could be put to use for more practical forms of energy production, like synthetic petroleum or geothermal stuff.

BigRed0427
Mar 23, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Do you guys think the Matrix was one of the first franchises hosed over by the studio trying to milk it completely? It had two squeals, The Animatrix, a MMO plus a video game that had exclusive live action cutscenes which filled in gaps between the squeals.

What's your guys opinion of Keanu Reeves as an action star in general? He's not a BIG star any more but he still gets work, plus John Wick was REALLY good. And gently caress it, I love Constantine. I thought he did a good job in it.

Testekill
Nov 1, 2012

I demand to be taken seriously

:aronrex:

BigRed0427 posted:


What's your guys opinion of Keanu Reeves as an action star in general? He's not a BIG star any more but he still gets work, plus John Wick was REALLY good.

Keanu Reeves sounds like a really cool guy. I wish that Overkill Software were able to get him to voice John Wick in Payday 2 but other than that I have no complaints about him.

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook
Inception is definitely better overall than the Matrix, but I feel like the Matrix had more narrative and tonal consistency. Inception didn't seem like it could really decide whether it wanted to be some weighty philosophical piece revolving around knowing what's real, or an awesome heist movie.

I'm not saying these two thing can't go together, I'm saying I don't feel like they executed it properly, and I felt like I was watching two different movies. Both were fairly good movies, mind you, but the whole thing felt inconsistent. Perhaps that's part of the dream metaphor, and you could defend it as such, but even if that's true it still feels flawed to me.

The Matrix, on the other hand, meshes its philosophy and its story fairly well. It's heavy-handed in places, to be sure, and it's not really "deep", but it blended all of its components fairly seamlessly.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

BigRed0427 posted:

Do you guys think the Matrix was one of the first franchises hosed over by the studio trying to milk it completely? It had two squeals, The Animatrix, a MMO plus a video game that had exclusive live action cutscenes which filled in gaps between the squeals.

What's your guys opinion of Keanu Reeves as an action star in general? He's not a BIG star any more but he still gets work, plus John Wick was REALLY good. And gently caress it, I love Constantine. I thought he did a good job in it.

Let me tell you about a little thing called the Star Wars Holiday Special. After, I'll give you milk and cookies and show you the empty box millions of kids got for Christmas.

DEEP STATE PLOT
Aug 13, 2008

Yes...Ha ha ha...YES!



Jack Gladney posted:

Let me tell you about a little thing called the Star Wars Holiday Special. After, I'll give you milk and cookies and show you the empty box millions of kids got for Christmas.

You don't even need to bring the holiday special up, the Star Wars Prequels are significantly worse movies than either Matrix sequel.

BigRed0427
Mar 23, 2007

There's no one I'd rather be than me.

Jack Gladney posted:

Let me tell you about a little thing called the Star Wars Holiday Special. After, I'll give you milk and cookies and show you the empty box millions of kids got for Christmas.

But the diffrence is that Star Wars still has this die hard fan base after all these years and new media is still being made for it. What was the last thing made for The Matrix?

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Mr. Fowl posted:

That's the theory I hold to as well--since the human battery theory in the film is a bit silly. You'd get more energy by burning the food that people eat than what you get from the body, let alone when you factor in what is lost in the growing process--all real estate that could be put to use for more practical forms of energy production, like synthetic petroleum or geothermal stuff.

The original premise was hooking them up for processing power, but the story goes that the producers were too dumb to understand this and wouldn't sign off on it.

FlamingLiberal
Jan 18, 2009

Would you like to play a game?



BigRed0427 posted:

But the diffrence is that Star Wars still has this die hard fan base after all these years and new media is still being made for it. What was the last thing made for The Matrix?
The last thing I remember Matrix-related was when they shut down that MMO. It's a pretty dead franchise, surprisingly, considering how huge it was at the time.

Mischalaniouse
Nov 7, 2009

*ribbit*

BigRed0427 posted:

What's your guys opinion of Keanu Reeves as an action star in general? He's not a BIG star any more but he still gets work, plus John Wick was REALLY good. And gently caress it, I love Constantine. I thought he did a good job in it.

I actually liked the Constantine movie too, but it had nothing to do with Keanu Reeves' performance, I thought he was the worst part of the movie. He's a baffling choice to play the foul-mouthed, snarking Constantine, since Reeves acting style is stone-faced confusion most of the time.

To be honest, I think the only reason I like the movie is the scenes with Tilda Swinton playing Gabriel and Peter Stomare playing Satan. The opening scene with Constantine exorcising the demon with a mirror was pretty cool too, and I liked the Hell scenes.

I AM GRANDO
Aug 20, 2006

Neddy Seagoon posted:

The original premise was hooking them up for processing power, but the story goes that the producers were too dumb to understand this and wouldn't sign off on it.

What would they need more clock speed for anyway? Like, what does an eternal machine empire do with itself after it takes over the world? Just keep killing Zion over and over because that's all there is to do?

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

Jack Gladney posted:

What would they need more clock speed for anyway? Like, what does an eternal machine empire do with itself after it takes over the world? Just keep killing Zion over and over because that's all there is to do?

Self-maintaining processing? Humans are an easily-reproducible resource and it's just plug-and-play to replace them, going by the battery farms in the first movie. With silicon hardware (or any futuristic equivalent) eventually something's gonna break down and cause a major malfunction. Not to mention the complex effort of having to mine and process the limited planetary resources for new parts. But yeah, not much of a end-game there once you've got all that processing except to sit around looking smug and squish the humans for fun.

Besides, that was the point of Zion and wasn't an awful idea all things considered compared to some other parts of the sequels. They knew humans were going to escape anyway, so they gave them somewhere pre-planned to escape to. Once it gets too big, they just knock it down and start again to maintain equilibrium. :shrug:

Mraagvpeine
Nov 4, 2014

I won this avatar on a technicality this thick.
Wasn't there a fan theory that the "real world" was part of a Matrix? That there were different levels of the Matrix and humans were given the illusion of freedom.

Ghostpilot
Jun 22, 2007

"As a rule, I never touch anything more sophisticated and delicate than myself."

So happy to hear that things are going well following what happened last week! And goodness, you've really turned a corner with that new setup! Looking very forward to the new show. :) By the way, nice hair.

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Mraagvpeine posted:

Wasn't there a fan theory that the "real world" was part of a Matrix? That there were different levels of the Matrix and humans were given the illusion of freedom.

I'm going to go out on a limb and boldly declare a law of fiction and fandoms:

If there is a story that involves multiple realities, there will exist a prominent fan theory that the reality presented to us as the "real" or top level one is, in fact, also fake. The existence and/or widespread acceptance of this theory will be independent of the evidence for it in the work itself.

lornekates
Oct 3, 2014

Web Developer for phelous.com dot com.

Jsor posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and boldly declare a law of fiction and fandoms:

If there is a story that involves multiple realities, there will exist a prominent fan theory that the reality presented to us as the "real" or top level one is, in fact, also fake. The existence and/or widespread acceptance of this theory will be independent of the evidence for it in the work itself.

I have a law that governs your law...

Fake fake edit: Also, there is evidence in the movie itself. Neo matrix-KO's some machines with his mindbrain in the "real world", then sees Matrix poo poo pallet-swapped-to-orange. This is, of course, NEVER addressed again in the entire franchise. But it's evidence.

Bad story telling, or AMAZING story telling? I can go either way.

Idran
Jan 13, 2005
Grimey Drawer

Jsor posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and boldly declare a law of fiction and fandoms:

If there is a story that involves multiple realities, there will exist a prominent fan theory that the reality presented to us as the "real" or top level one is, in fact, also fake. The existence and/or widespread acceptance of this theory will be independent of the evidence for it in the work itself.

Yeah, I hate induction too. :v:

You have a point in the second sentence, fandoms can get kind of silly about theories like that, but it's really a natural thing to at least consider in a story like that and see how well it holds up as compared to the source material. The theory existing isn't a bad thing, it's only when your second sentence comes into play and it persists even after shown as not holding up in the text that it gets annoying.

BreakAtmo
May 16, 2009

FlamingLiberal posted:

The last thing I remember Matrix-related was when they shut down that MMO. It's a pretty dead franchise, surprisingly, considering how huge it was at the time.

Which kinda sucks. I'd love an all-out new-gen remake of Path of Neo or The Matrix Online (which I never got to play).

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook
I never said such a theory existing was a bad thing, just that one of that sort will always exist. :D

Echo Chamber
Oct 16, 2008

best username/post combo
I still hold my belief that The Second Renaissance from The Animatrix was terrible for the same reason the sequels were awful: stupid world building on things few people cared about.

Tracula
Mar 26, 2010

PLEASE LEAVE
Dumb/bad as all the EU stuff in anything after the first film was The Matrix really is a landmark picture and basically revolutionized special effects. Critique of it is good and important but I think it does get a bit of a bum rap to an extent because of everything else that came afterwards. While not exactly the same Highlander sort of went through the same wringer. The original move is really goddamn good and everything else went off a cliff.

Puppy Time
Mar 1, 2005


Jsor posted:

I'm going to go out on a limb and boldly declare a law of fiction and fandoms:

If there is a story that involves multiple realities, there will exist a prominent fan theory that the reality presented to us as the "real" or top level one is, in fact, also fake. The existence and/or widespread acceptance of this theory will be independent of the evidence for it in the work itself.

Hell, this is true of stories with only one presented reality. Especially kid shows.

Basically fans like to pretend they're clever in the same way all over.

Vicas
Dec 9, 2009

Sweet tricks, mom.

Echo Chamber posted:

I still hold my belief that The Second Renaissance from The Animatrix was terrible for the same reason the sequels were awful: stupid world building on things few people cared about.

The best thing about The Second Renaissance was that Kids Next Door shot for shot remake of it

Compendium
Jun 18, 2013

M-E-J-E-D

That 80s style opening made me very happy. I'm gonna keep watching your content for sure!

Linear Zoetrope
Nov 28, 2011

A hero must cook

Vicas posted:

The best thing about The Second Renaissance was that Kids Next Door shot for shot remake of it

This is the 100% unvarnished truth. I support the release of the Animatrix for that alone.

DStecks
Feb 6, 2012

TODD: Katy Perry hasn't ever sung a song about her boobs

KATY PERRY, IN HER LATEST RADIO HIT: Let me get you in your birthday suit / It's time to get out the big balloons

MechanicalTomPetty
Oct 30, 2011

Runnin' down a dream
That never would come to me

DStecks posted:

TODD: Katy Perry hasn't ever sung a song about her boobs

KATY PERRY, IN HER LATEST RADIO HIT: Let me get you in your birthday suit / It's time to get out the big balloons

Hell you don't even need to go that recent. Try pulling up the video for Firework sometime! :v:

echopapa
Jun 2, 2005

El Presidente smiles upon this thread.
Allison, your new set is fantastic. I wish I had neon :(

OldTennisCourt
Sep 11, 2011

by VideoGames

DStecks posted:

TODD: Katy Perry hasn't ever sung a song about her boobs

KATY PERRY, IN HER LATEST RADIO HIT: Let me get you in your birthday suit / It's time to get out the big balloons

Not going to lie, Birthday is my favorite song by her. It's incredibly stupid but it's a really fun song that never fails to make me smile.

Zedd
Jul 6, 2009

I mean, who would have noticed another madman around here?



I still love the first matrix, and like 3 setpieces from the second. Animatrix was okay. It's a franchise that can't be hurt by an awful reboot in it's current state though.

bbf2 posted:

Well the series ended with the two sides reaching a truce and Colonel Sanders saying "We machines will honor this forever because its not in our programming to be able to break truces."
In the MMO the Humans broke the truce by being loving idiots apparently.

Jack Gladney posted:

What would they need more clock speed for anyway? Like, what does an eternal machine empire do with itself after it takes over the world? Just keep killing Zion over and over because that's all there is to do?
I always thought the original idea was that they kept the human race alive due to some form of preservation of their creators, and instead of being batteries they would use the processing power of human minds to help run the matrix itself. More as a closed system in a way.

Anyway enough about the Matrix, Looking forward to your new show Lupa.

fatherboxx
Mar 25, 2013

Jack Gladney posted:

What would they need more clock speed for anyway? Like, what does an eternal machine empire do with itself after it takes over the world? Just keep killing Zion over and over because that's all there is to do?

Machines became self-aware, but not self-aware enough to stop the Bitcoin mining.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Mokinokaro
Sep 11, 2001

At the end of everything, hold onto anything



Fun Shoe

Mraagvpeine posted:

Wasn't there a fan theory that the "real world" was part of a Matrix? That there were different levels of the Matrix and humans were given the illusion of freedom.

There was also a theory that the people in the matrix are actually the machines. Humans won the war and created the entire matrix world (including the "real" world) to keep the sentient AIs from rebelling again.

  • Locked thread