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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

How about some loving DVD chapters this time, David.

You know he's incredibly against that, right? It's against his philosophy of how movies should be viewed, from beginning to end.

I remember reading or hearing him say in an interview that he wishes he could remove the pause feature from the DVD release of his movies.

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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Well, coming from a guy who is pretty open about not watching movies, not really caring about movies in general, can you be surprised he has some eccentric ideas with how they should be presented?

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
I always thought there was the White Lodge, which is the hardest to reach but houses pure/good beings, the Black Lodge houses the evil beings, and owls that act as messengers/watchers for each.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Frankston posted:

I remember when I was a young kid watching this really old ('cause it was black & white see) film about the elephant man of who I was aware of because of that bit in Michael Jackson's excellent music video for Leave Me Alone. Anyway, I remember I really enjoyed it but for some reason never saw it again until a few weeks ago - probably after a break of 20 years or so. Thoroughly loved it again, especially Anthony Hopkin's performance.

So I watched Eraserhead, jeez. I didn't dislike it, in fact I kinda enjoyed how uncomfortable it managed to make me feel because that's a real rarity when it comes to film. I loved watching ridiculously gory 18+ horror films as a child (thanks mum), hell I found them funny. That scene at the end of Eraserhead where he kills the baby and it starts flying around the room and whatnot though, that had me wincing.

Anyway, what would you folks recommend to watch after The Elephant Man and Eraserhead?

I'd say Lost Highway is closer in tone to those two, but Blue Velvet was made in the same era ("Young Lynch"). Then Wild At Heart for a road trip into hellish landscapes or Mulholland Drive if you want more of a mystery into dreamscapes.

At any point, if you're feeling overwhelmed and need a feel-good palette cleanser, watch The Straight Story.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
I specifically avoided recommendkng anything Twin Peaks because, while fantastic (and my favorite TV show), is an investment of time, has its ups and downs, and can be polarizing.

If someone enjoys Eraserhead, then Lost Highway is chronologically and artistically close, without compromising weird tangents for plot. It's a strange puzzle that disturbs and challenges the audience.

Wild at Heart is fantastic. Nicholas Cage is over the top, but he is overshadowed by everyone else (no one ever talks about the weak link Laura Dern, or her mother).

If you're diving into Lynch, I agree to do it chronologically (and skip Dune), but if we're going by what the person wants by taste, I stand by my recommendations.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Two Worlds posted:

The lipstick all over the face is also, obviously, another Wizard of Oz reference to Margaret Hamilton's green make up.
I'm pleased to hear such positive opinions of Lost Highway and Fire Walk with Me.

There's a behind the scenes feature on the DVD of the actress explaining her thoughts, emotions, and intention with the scene and her character.

In her words (though I'm paraphrasing), the character has become so obsessed with beauty, but has become so reprehensible and evil that she's trying to clutch onto any sign of beauty. But no amount of make-up can hide her true ugliness, and instead cakes her face into a red devilish mask. She sees that everything's irreversible, that even make-up can't hide it, and has a mental breakdown.

It's a cool feature, because it's about Laura Dern and her mother acting in a painfully twisted mother-daughter relationship, and what they did to really pull out the experience. I remember Dafoe also talking about the character of Bobby Peru coming from the teeth. I wish they had a feature on Nicolas Cage.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Big Bad Voodoo Lou posted:

The Straight Story and The Elephant Man are the only two Lynch feature films I haven't seen.

I haven't seen Industrial Symphony #1 or any of his short films either, just due to lack of access. :(

Rectify this immediately. Both of those movies are emotional suckerpunches for me. I can't watch The Straight Story without tearing up, and I mean that in the best way possible.

They are also the two movies that I show to people who think that Lynch is only about self-indulgent weirdness.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
It was also filmed in sequence and filmed along the same route that Alvin Straight actually travelled.

And no one talks about Sissy Spacek's amazing portrayal as the daughter. The dream-like scene where she watches the child play breaks my heart.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Raxivace posted:

Dude if you liked Lost Highway you should check out Edgar G. Ulmer's movie Detour. It's in the public domain so it's pretty easy to find.

Lost Highway is basically an unofficial remake just with Lynchian supernatural stuff added in. The lead actor in Detour even murdered his wife!

Detour is amazing, and it's free on YouTube. I went in expecting noir cheese and was blown away by how compelling and watchable it is.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Josef K. Sourdust posted:

This was early 1990s and he couldn't do half of the stuff in FWWM on network television. He had a new format, +18 rating, 100% control over script and direction and hey, why not do other stuff with the characters? It wasn't like the movie was ever going to be "Twin Peaks go on Spring Break". The movie was always going to be about sexual abuse, incest and murder featuring a teenage girl. Not much room Little Nicky and dastardedly Dick there.

E: Not to mention that DL wanted to do 2 extra films about Twin Peaks but the box office returns were too low. He definitely did love TP and wanted to do more with it in film and darker, but yes, he did allow TP to fall apart during S2, though exactly how much personal involvement/control he had over scripts and new characters in later S2 I don't know.

A large part of his lack of involvement with S2 is due to working on Wild at Heart, as well as other projects.

And I thought Cooper was absent for a lot of FWWM because Kyle was tired of the character and didn't want to be typecast as "FBI character". And the whole debacle with Coop and Audrey being written out of their romance due to behind the scenes drama fueled the fire of him being tired of the franchise, let alone the flannel episodes.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

InfiniteZero posted:

EDIT -- holy poo poo, now I want a version of "Louie" that stars David Lynch instead (yeah I know he was on Louie, but I want a version of Louie where it's stories about David Lynch doing poo poo around LA instead and instead of stand-up segues, we see Lynch sitting around having a smoke with Harry Dean Stanton talking about poo poo).

While not exactly what you're looking for, there's a great 20 minute documentary on YouTube of him and his helpers creating a mixed media painting, complete with a compilation of him saying "gently caress" and talking about his favorite shirt to paint in.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
While it's definitely inspired by OJ, I wouldn't call it an allegory. The main character invents realities and identities to hide the fact that he's a murderer from his own mind. He is so disturbed by his own actions that he refuses to see the real world. OJ just had to convince his jury while knowing the truth.

But if you have some ideas, please share. I was too young to really know what was happening with OJ.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Method acting?

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Last I heard was during the first quarter of 2017. Probably March.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
It's a good list, but there is an inherent flaw in making a best-of list for the 21st century less than 20 years into that century...

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

modestmusashi posted:

Got my hands on Critereon's Mulholland Drive. Saw it once before in theaters, but I want to re-watch it in episodes instead of all the way through. Any opinions on where to split up the movie that would still keep the plot in tact (as opposed to just the half-way point).

Why would you want to do that? Can you really not just devote the two hours to it?

Also, I'd check to see if it even has Chapters. David Lynch has been known to make what you're attempting as difficult as possible, since he thinks films should be watched all-at-once or not at all. Of any of his movies to benefit from that, I'd say it's Mulholland Drive.

If you really have to, I guess stop watching when Rita puts on a blonde wig.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

modestmusashi posted:

don't have to, just thought I'd mix up how I watched it. It started out as a TV pilot, thought maybe it could lend itself well to chunks. Though the more I think it out, the stupider it sounds. :shrug:

I think that it works for something like Inland Empire, which is more episodic and fragmented.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

RBX posted:

Seeing what you guys say about Fire makes it sound so amazing, if only I could fine the time to watch the series. I take it I shouldn't spoil myself and watch Fire first right?

If it helps any, the first episode is pretty much a Made-For-TV movie by David Lynch about trauma and grief, and the first season is only 8 episodes total.

Season 2's first episode is also movie length, and the rest are 50 minutes or less (usually less).

So, all things considered, you're missing out on 2 Made-For-TV David Lynch movies, and then 28 episodes. All of which just clocks in under 24 hours of material.

The eye-rolling "Flannel episodes" don't even begin until 18, and ends after 4/5 episodes.

What I'm saying is, if you have time to watch FWWM, you have time to start Twin Peaks. A lot of emotional pay-off of FWWM works because the series literally begins with Laura's sad pale body being found. It's interesting to learn about Laura through the lens of the weird townspeople, and then finally get to experience her in FWWM.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

RBX posted:

I've watched every Lynch movie but Inland Empire Eraserhead, and Blue Velvet. I own them too but I'm lazy. Lost Highway is my favorite so far.

What are you doing?! Leave work right now and go watch Eraserhead and Blue Velvet back to back!

I've seen every Lynch movie half a dozen times, but Eraserhead is still the one I go back to most. It was the first Lynch movie I saw, and I get something new out of it after 10 years of watching it. Lynch may have improved on narrative with Elephant Man, Dune and Blue Velvet, but it's ridiculous how great Eraserhead is for a first film by a student working with no budget over a few years.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Magic Hate Ball posted:

What the heck Inland Empire is incredibly long.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Raxivace posted:

INLAND EMPIRE is the only Lynch movie I've hated. I keep thinking I should give it another chance but then I remember that three hour runtime and how I dislike the general look of the movie.

I hate to say it, but I feel the same way. I appreciate that Lynch likes the freedom of digital, but I hate when movies look like they were filmed with digital camcorders, and Inland Empire is one of the worst offenders of this. I need to give it another chance, but it's an exhausting experience sitting down with that movie.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:

Yep. One of my top 10 filmgoing experiences ever.

What beats it to the top?

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Miguel Ferrer died from cancer today.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

david_a posted:

WHAT

:( RIP Albert

I know. Albert's reveal is one of the best moments in the whole show.

He's still going to be in Season 3 (along with Catherine Coulson) though!

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

DrVenkman posted:

So then folks, what did we think?

I saw Episodes 1/2 in theaters and loved it. Waiting to see 3/4 in theaters again in Sunday.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer
Watch it again until it makes sense.

Dude kills his wife and then recedes into his subconscious and creates a new identity to deny that he is capable of murder.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

100 degrees Calcium posted:

Hm. I enjoyed it a lot, but I didn't really "get" it. I guess I'll have to do a rewatch after I see Mulholland Drive and Inland Empire.

I've seen it about half a dozen times, and there are whole parts that I don't "get", and I'm okay with that. Good luck with INLAND EMPIRE, it's way more dense/obtuse than Lost Highway. Mulholland Drive is fun, but I think Lost Highway is slightly better.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

100 degrees Calcium posted:

It seems like anticipating a certain degree of obfuscation and just being able to enjoy the weirdness in the moment is the key to enjoying David Lynch films. I was curious if there was a "secret" to Lost Highway, but now that I've heard it I think I might just be too dumb.

Lost Highway is great because every time I watch it, it solidifies in my mind more and all gels better and just makes a lot of sense to me, but not in an epiphany AHA! moment or a "key" that opens the door of understanding. It just makes sense in a way that's hard to articulate.

Whereas Mulholland Drive does have an Aha! moment, a literal key, and can be articulated. I'd say watch LH, MD, and IH at least twice and then look up interpretations. It's legitimately more fun to just figure them out yourself, that's the magic.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

RBX posted:

Ok I'm at episode 3 of season 2 and things are different and weird. Different in a bad way with a lot more comedy but the weird is good. Thinking i'm gonna wait til the reveal then watch the movie, maybe watching a summary of the rest of season 2. Anticipating the movie so such if what I saw in episode 2 is a preview of the movie.

You'll be missing out on a lot of things by skipping that last...2 or 3 episodes from S2, since you'll have no context for who Annie is. Also, S3 has incorporated a lot of stuff you'll be skipping.

If it helps, you can safely skip any scene with James after the reveal, but I honestly don't recommend skipping any episode.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

RBX posted:

Ok i'll watch it all, I trust both of you that its worth it. Gonna be another couple days.

Oh and Jesus James is already pushing my patience with these scenes.

There are going to be plot-lines that are grating, but every episode has legitimately worthwhile moments. Some of my favorite TV moments and best instances of comedy are from Season 2 after the reveal.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

A True Jar Jar Fan posted:

The lady screaming AHHHH. AHHHH. might have actually been the hardest I've ever laughed at Twin Peaks. Every bit of her performance ruled.

Same, especially since it was almost the same pattern as her honking.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

Somehow I'd come around on Dick Tremayne by the end of that storyline, I think his ridiculousness eventually won me over. I can totally understand the character grating on some people's nerves though.

I think what's endearing about Dick Tremayne is that he's obviously a pompous lecherous sleaze, and yet anytime he's actually presented with a sexual opportunity, it completely goes over his head. He's totally oblivious. I also like how he doesn't seem to remember ever having sex with Lucy.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

DrVenkman posted:

I have a feeling that's never going to be addressed again. It seems like a big misstep because they wanted to give something Bobby to do in the movie. Plus it kind of spoils his arc in the show, particularly S3.

Nothing really about his characterisation in the show after really jives with what happened, unlike Donna for example where her story in the movie is an extension of that in the show.

Yeah, no one has ever turned from a life of crime and/or violence and become a good person willing to help their community as a form of repentance for their idiotic juvenile self.

:jerkbag:

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

Have you actually seen the movie recently? You may be remembering that scene wrong, he does kill the guy, and it's definitely murder, but at the same time it's still very much Bobby being Bobby. He brings a gun thinking he's a major badass, but then ends up pulling it in a panic in self defense because the crooked cop was drawing his too. He's got a wild-eyed panic on his face the entire time.

So he did a terrible thing, absolutely, but the way it went down is totally in line with Bobby's character. A kid who's basically a good hearted person, who thinks he has to be a tough guy because that's what Laura likes and it's the opposite of what he perceives his father to be.

He's also about halfway through a bottle of whisky, stoned on at least one or two drugs, and the killing, while not good or justifiable, is still self-defense.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Basebf555 posted:

The reason I say it's still murder(as in, he could be convicted of it if caught) is that he pauses for a second and then executes the guy by shooting him in the back of the head. The first two shots were absolutely self-defense though. But even with all that it doesn't mean he's an irredeemable person or that it's completely unbelievable that he'd become a cop later in life.

If anything, I'd say it's why he became a cop. As soon as that was revealed, it just made complete sense to me.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

The Super-Id posted:

So if David Lynch's movies exist in the same universe does that mean that when Sheryl Lee shows up in Wild At Heart as the good witch that's actually Laura Palmer as one of the lodge spirits talking to Sailor?

They aren't and no.

The only two that's tangentially related to each other are Lost Highway to Twin Peaks, because Lynch said they're "in the same world" at one point, and even that's a stretch.

Nothing's related, some just have similar imagery to others.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Quote-Unquote posted:

Also the White Lodge is Club Silencio, and the woman behind Winkie's has a striking resemblance to certain denizens of the Black Lodge.

Or they just liked using that set and wanted to use it again and David Lynch likes the imagery of a tarry/oily deranged person and used it again in Twin Peaks without them being related.

It's fun in an easter-egg way, and it's nice to draw parallels to themes between his works and repeated imagery, but to say "Oh yeah, the white lodge is actually Club Silencio and Mulholland Drive has denizens of the black lodge invading dreams" diminishes the two entities and makes illogical comparisons. They're easter eggs. There's a stuffed animal in TP S3 that looks like a character from Dumbland, that doesn't mean that that's an actual TV show in TP that's been merchandised, it's there because it feels right or it's fun.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Cromulent posted:

I've yet to see the source of that quote, even though I've seen it repeated for years.

I believe it comes from Lynch On Lynch, but I'd have to search through my copy when I get home and see the direct quote. Looking it up, it seems that "comes from the same place" possibly refers to the idea comes from a similar origin, not necessarily that they are in the same "reality" or canon.

If I find it, I'll post a pic.

Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

SleepCousinDeath posted:

Dune, Lost Highway and Inland Empire are the only Lynch films I have left to see. I don't know which one to start with.

Lost Highway
INLAND EMPIRE
Don't watch Dune.

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Franchescanado
Feb 23, 2013

If it wasn't for disappointment
I wouldn't have any appointment

Grimey Drawer

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

Much like Inland Empire, it's one of the most Lynchian things Lynch has ever done and it's super inaccessible to anyone but hardcore Lynch fans a lot of the time. That said, it loving rules and I love it more and more the more I think about it. It's kind of insane that something like that was allowed to exist at all in 2017.

I agree and disagree. I'm a hardcore Lynch fan, and I loved it. I watched every episode with two friends who only had seen S1 & 2 and Fire Walk With Me, and hadn't watched any other Lynch films, and they also loved it, though had conflicting opinions here and there. And there were a lot of hardcore Lynch fans that hated how it ended.

It's good. Go for it.

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