Is being proud of your country unfashionable in Europe?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is being proud of your country unfashionable in Europe?

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

doverhog posted:

Being passively proud of your country is alright. You like the food, the culture, whatever. If someone talks poo poo about it you might respond with something.

Overt displays are different. Pledge of allegiance in school? What the gently caress is that, is kneeling before the fuhrer Obama's portrait next?

Yep. I'm proud of my country because of what it is at the moment, not because of what it has achieved in the past. Free education, healthcare, high HDI, etc. socialism is pretty great.

But all the flag worship and poo poo is seriously weird.

I don't know why anyone would be proud of USA at the moment unless they value some very different things.

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 00:24

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# ¿ May 10, 2024 10:36

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

davidb posted:

Because they helped stave off russian expansion influence after ww2. Russia collapsed competing in the cold war. Which helped free my country(poland), all of eastern europe, germany from a longer or indefinite control by russia.

Without america becoming what it did after ww2 russia would have dominated everything. Space race, nuclear arsenal, concentional military. They crushed nazies and japan not single handedly...but almost. After ww2 they could have kept going.

I know my family and friends in poland are very pro American and very grateful for what America has done for the world. Even though America isnt perfect. When you need them their there. Sometimes when you dont need them too but almost always with good intentions.

I am thankful for what they did for korea, japan, germany after the wars. Im grateful the example they have set for the rest of the world in terms of promoting democracy even when sometimes its not wanted.

Theyve made the world a more peaceful place by weilding the biggest military in the world in such a way that other countries feel secure having a token military.

Whatever america becomes in the future or gets overtaken by china later. The world was economically, militarily, democracy, corruption wise better off during their reign.

I know its really cool to pretend america is some overhyped hypocritical country. The same way thomas jefferson wasnt a great man because he had slaves. That kind of lofty high horse attitude is common for internet warriors. But from where im standing in the mud america is a beacon of good(even with all its pimples and warts)

When i look at russia, china, india the next runner up domimant, future dominant potentials I shudder. They will not weild the cudgel nearly as softly.

All 3 have terrible crony, corruption, human rights abuses. And thats from a weak position in the world rankings/influence. Wait until they weild the biggest sticks and see what tune they want everyone to dance to

Yes, if we look at what America did to its allies, yeah, its great! But you know, there are other parts of the world beyond the first, and there it's a long list of human rights abuses, military coups, support of dictatorships, carpet bombings, crushing of democracy, torture, intervention, chemical weapons, economic exploitation, etc. As far as most of the third world can be concerned, United States or Soviets, they were all the same. You may call them "pimples and warts" but you come from a privileged position. Just because America was good for you, it wasn't that for everybody. Why is some Vietnamese dude supposed to feel happy about the fact that US gave France money while bombs are raining down on his village? Is an Iranian dude suffocating on chemical weapons sold to Saddam by US really wrong if he isn't hyped by the fact that Poland was drawn to America's sphere?

And if you think that Europe doesn't spend money on its military, you need to take a closer look at military spending. Token military? Well yeah, compared to the US armed forces literally every single army in the existence of human history has been a token army.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jan 18, 2015

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 01:49

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

computer parts posted:

When the rhetoric up till then had been "you guys need to let the world manage its own affairs", yes it was.

So did you just forget about the War in Afghanistan, or...?

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 17:23

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

davidb posted:

Israel and iraq are democracries. Thanks to america. Those countries are on the list. Along with other countries america has helped establish a democracy.

All the countries on the list have varying degrees of democratic success. Im putting israel as an overall resounding success even if not perfect. Iraq is a troubled nation with many problems. Its too soon to say how iraq will pan out. But if they end up with anything less than the dictator they had before and the democracy we hoped for them then it will have been another example of america spreading democracy.

That was afterall the context focul point of those comments. Someone laughed at the notion that america was spreading democracy

Israel not a democracy. It is an apartheid state that actively practices colonialism. United States' support of it is one of the greatest sins it has today.
http://m.imgur.com/gallery/L86hXg4
http://m.imgur.com/gallery/Tv0cv

Iraq is considered a failed state by any metric by literally every organization and country in the world, including the United States. If you need me to post proof about this you're goddamn hopeless.

drilldo squirt posted:

You guys are super racist and it's really funny.

As an black Finn, yeah, we are. In words. But on the other hand, I don't have to worry about white cops or people shooting me on the street when I'm unarmed and getting off free so I'll take words over deeds.

DarkCrawler fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Jan 18, 2015

# ¿ Jan 18, 2015 22:29

DarkCrawler: Apr 6, 2009; by vyelkin

davidb posted:

what stupidity is this? I dont care how they treat non citizens.

Well, that explains a lot. Why do you give a flying gently caress about what the Soviets did to the Polish, then?

But if you had actually read the links posted, you would have noticed that Israel treats its non-Jewish citizens in an inferior way to its Jewish citizens, making it an apartheid state.

davidb posted:

The israeli state is more than welcome to determine who recieves citizenship and therefore the benefits of the state. Their not obligated to give social services to anyone who wanders into their lands.

Israel is a democracy because they elect their leaders. That is whats being discussed...focus. read and understand the words.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Israel

elections = democracy

whether you agree with how they behave doesnt change that simple simple fact.

So the British Empire was a democracy as well? Apartheid South Africa? All the people they ruled over without giving them representation just didn't count?

Syria had elections a while back too.

davidb posted:

their a failed state when theres no more iraq on my google map search. They can have all kinds of internal turmoil their new and they suck at this election stuff. Thats like saying America is a failed state mid civil war. Or france is a failed state mid french revolution.

You internet ideologists live a cloud of dreams. Thank goodness men with their feet planted on the ground run the world and not these neckbeards

Haha, you don't know what a failed state even means, do you?

# ¿ Jan 19, 2015 02:19

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Is being proud of your country unfashionable in Europe?