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jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Docker uses layers when updating so you're not pushing a whole new container. Just the changes you made. Think of it like a patch. Just diff old container vs new container

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jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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I do openshift if anyone wants help with that.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Redhat bought coreos

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Concourse I guess. But really. Run jenkins

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Mao Zedong Thot posted:

Concourse is literally the worst software I've ever used. It's not that it's breaks, but it's insanely opinionated and built around incredibly strange and awful abstractions. You can't parameterize builds, you can't rebuild builds, you can't tell where a build is running without curling poo poo in your job. Build config lives 50% in your repo and 50% in concourse. Running a command takes like 4 different files of config.

100% agree but he wanted alternatives.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Git lab is pretty cool. They run all their builds on DigitalOcean too. Plug for my old company.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Docjowles posted:

Hey I'm here to post the same question as Methanar and see if anyone has a different answer :pseudo: We've been doing a POC with kubernetes and have determined that it owns. But going from "a few engineers dicking around with no revenue on the line" to "production environment shared by a bunch of devs across a bunch of disparate teams, some of which are subject to government regulations" is quite the leap. Even in our simple test environment we've had people accidentally apply changes to the "production which is thankfully not really production" cluster that were meant for staging. Or do a "kubectl apply -f" without having pulled the latest version of the repo, blowing away changes someone else made. This is completely untenable.

We easily could have a Jenkins job (or hell even a commit hook) that does the apply command and that would cover most cases. There are certain changes that require extra actions. But we could special case those.

But it seems like there has to be a tool for this already because doing it manually is so janky and horrible. And I know companies way bigger than mine are running Kubernetes in production. Is that tool Helm? Something else? I agree Helm doesn't sound ideal.

Sadly I think you probably want openshift if you want developers going right into your cluster

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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I actually love openshift. It's probably the easiest implementation of k8s right now(I haven't seen rancher 2.0). It's extremely developer friendly and I'm sure redhat is gonna add the cool parts of tectonic into it soon. From what you're saying to me you need something that's developer friendly so ops doesn't have to do every little thing. That's pretty much openshift(or rancher, I honestly don't know)

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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It’s pretty good. Gitlab is doing good poo poo. I don’t think I’d host with them but I’d take gitlab enterprise in house over GitHub

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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The k8s book is worth it alone. Cloud native from kris nova is great. Charity majors knows her poo poo so I assume it’s good.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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What are y’all using for docker garbage collection? Just docker prune?

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Hadlock posted:

In other news, I accidentally a kubernetes today.

We're running k8s in aws but have been raw dogging it with docker and shell scripts in our deprecated dev data center, finally hit a scaling problem with deploying more and more services as containers, and do a 1 to 1 service per dev environment. Turns out Rancher is rather good at setting up single host kubernetes machines. It's about 8 lines of shell and 10 mouse clicks to get it all set up. So that's one less deployment style I have to support.

What are mouse clicks?

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Spring Heeled Jack posted:

Yeah our end goal is to use one of the managed k8s services for everything, but containers are still a new thing here so we started with swarm since it was simple to get up and running, met most of our needs, and we didn’t have to deal with managing WAN connections to a cloud provider as of yet.

K8s is pretty quick to setup now. It’s harder than swarm but still not too bad. Are you on premises or in the cloud?

If in cloud just jump on gke or if your devs are real lazy Openshift on premise.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Oh man. Containers on windows you’re on your own. Good luck buddy. May you boldly go into the unknown.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Then ignore gke and go with aks. Azure cli is loving god awful though. It’s the worst of the big 3 providers and yes I’ll fight you about it.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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I'd argue with him but he's not wrong, azure is trash.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Redhat ibm takes a lot of liberties with their managed offerings.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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fletcher posted:

Good thinking, I've confirmed I don't have any references to it in a depends_on somewhere. Still keeps coming back!

Grep for it. Something is calling it

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Put together a simple crud site and wget the values.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Warbird posted:

Interesting. Got a link to some documentation or an example or two?

Edit - More the file sourcing and whatnot but the CRUD thing sounds like that could be fun.

wget file, source ./file values are set.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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I’m pretty sure you can use istio for this exact use case.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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I feel filthy. I had to put a windows VM in one of my K8s clusters.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Zorak of Michigan posted:

Every post it's a new low with you.

i'm a whore

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Hughmoris posted:

Rookie question about IaC:

As I learn this tech, what is good/best practice for building up a project with terraform and testing as I go? Do I just iterate on the main.tf file and build on as I go?

Ex: Do I build out my TF resources for S3 buckets and then apply/verify they work? Then edit the file and add on my permissions and update my stack to verify those work? Then add on my Lambda etc??

yes

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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https://registry.terraform.io/providers/hashicorp/helm/latest/docs

How late to the party am I on just finding this?

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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The Iron Rose posted:

I would avoid doing helm in terraform.

I still like ansible better.

I’m trying to save key strokes and this almost kinda works for me.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Hadlock posted:

It's possible that in 2022 somebody cares about which cloud hosted provider you're on, but I can't think of a use case

Lost me here.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Music Theory posted:

I've never really done any build/test automation beyond some simple github actions, but I want to get better at it & I don't want to be locked in to github stuff. Is there a good replacement for github actions that isn't tied to a specific platform?

I'd also like to automatically generate a github release for certain commit tags, if that's possible -- I haven't yet figured out how to do that in github actions.

e: I'm leaning toward buildbot, since I've got some spare server resources for self-hosting and I like that it uses python

Depends. Argo. Jenkins.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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The NPC posted:

I don't see this talked about much and assume I am doing something wrong at this point.

Are you kidding? It's all we discuss. You don't limit cpu but you do requests for cpu. Memory should be limited and probably requested.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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The NPC posted:

What's the logic behind not limiting cpu? Do you ever run into some app bogging down a whole node? Right now we are setting limits, and have alerting set up to inform us if anything gets throttled for an extended period of time.

I don't remember the math anymore, but it was like, memory is finite which we understand but cpu is elastic so why restrict poo poo. you set requirements and then the cpu will always have that no matter what and can burst if needed, so if a pod started taking a poo poo load of the cpu the other pods would still have their bare minimum.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Dude has a point, you can make a custom scheduler for that poo poo and move it off when it starts doing whatever the gently caress it does.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Anyone done the switch from istio to cilium yet? What am I looking at?

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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freeasinbeer posted:

Cilium is very alpha quality at the moment unless you are just replacing your existing CNI, I’d wait, but it’s still the right direction

It’s the default for gke and eks now I think. I’m on prem though.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Warbird posted:

This isn’t strictly DevOps but close enough that I figure folks here might have an idea on the matter.

I grabbed one of these new M2 MacBooks with the intent, among other things, to use some of the extra beef to spin up some VMs in order to dink around with K8s finally. Lo and behold it seems that Virtualbox support on the processor is spotty right now and anything I emulate via any means will also be ARM based. That isn’t awful but most of the reason I didn’t already do this on a few RasPis was that ARM support of containers and most K8s guides/walkthroughs don’t usually line up.

What’s the play here? Wait for Virtualbox to get in a usable state? Pay for a Parallels sub (have standard, have to have Pro for Vagrant comparability)? Try and convince the wife to let me spend some $$$ on a Proxmox instance with more than 16GB of RAM?

Utm

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Methanar posted:

Probably less than 5% of k8s use cases justify rolling your own poo poo.
I don't think I've ever even interviewed somebody that's managed their own control plane or rolled their own, or even really knew what was involved in it. Not in the past 4 years, anyway.

Hi

e: I also write my operators in python

jaegerx fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Feb 6, 2023

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Methanar posted:

Dang, you're not even using it as an excuse for some resume driven go development?

Why would I not use python?

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Warbird posted:

Our clients? Act reasonably and utilize mature solutions for their own benefit instead of doing just the dumbest loving thing possible for some slight perceived benefit? How long have you worked in this field?


But yeah, minikube or the like is likely the call here as I really just want to poke around and figure this all out; deploy some services and so on. Maaaaaaaaaybe migrate my containerized services over to a cluster once I understand it all, but likely not as there are better ways to skin that cat without going full rear end K8s.

I have told you in 2 threads, that UTM will emulate x86 for free on Mac arm.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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Docjowles posted:

My eyes absolutely glaze over looking at Java code but I guess they did something right. Because despite all us hipsters out here trying to write in Go or Python or TypeScript or Rust or whatever, an ungodly percentage of the world runs on Java.

Maybe not in the open source world. But in ~the enterprise~, oh boy, it's Java or Microsoft poo poo (or COBOL lol for the truly critical systems if your company is an OG) all the way down

We use golang now actually.

jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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necrobobsledder posted:

Elasticsearch has an official K8S operator. Works well for a lot of people in production use cases currently, in fact.

Lol, no it doesn't.

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jaegerx
Sep 10, 2012

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necrobobsledder posted:

Not particularly accomplished or anything but as someone that works with folks writing eBPF working in the domain of security and o11y for K8S including one of the kernel contributors a lot of these supposedly fancy things sound intimidating mostly because people simply aren't that familiar with it. Like how iteration got supported is kinda bonkers but honestly it's not the worst thing I've seen anyone do either (it's not that different to me than doing a validator with ye olde funrollloops). There's a lot of hard, exasperatingly stupid work necessary and lots of sharp edges to deal with bleeding edge stuff that kind of takes away from the glamour of it all though IMO. You would think most of us experienced folks wouldn't romanticize all this newfangled stuff much but I have the suspicion it's a combination of the hype-makers and less experienced engineers that aren't jaded enough that they might fall for hype once in a while.

Oh. I work with ebpf. Are you a bee?

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