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Crain posted:If you've read the book, Eastwood/the producers actually toned down the Jingoism. The move presents a side of Kyle that is totally absent from his own Autobiography and focuses on it entirely (the PTSD). Funny thing: No mention of PTSD exists in his book. It's not mentioned by name, alluded to, nor is it's (potential) effect on Kyle mentioned. On the opposite side Kyle spends an absurd amount of time talking about the many physical injuries he suffered in Iraq. I've read the book but not seen the movie and am highly interested in your write up. I am surprised from what I hear everyone saying about the movie because Kyle comes off as a blowhard/psycho in his book and it seems something is lost in translation. Someone asked about the book and I described it as " Ricky Bobby and Seth Rogen from Observe and report put into a red white and blue blender"
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Jan 20, 2015 20:45
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This movie sounds like it could have been great if it actually depicted Chris Kyle as a maniac rather than hanging from his nuts. I haven't seen it yet, but from what I gather that's how it plays out...
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Jan 20, 2015 20:48
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mugrim posted:I've read the book but not seen the movie and am highly interested in your write up. I am surprised from what I hear everyone saying about the movie because Kyle comes off as a blowhard/psycho in his book and it seems something is lost in translation. Someone asked about the book and I described it as " Ricky Bobby and Seth Rogen from Observe and report put into a red white and blue blender" It comes over as exactly that, except it's played 100% straight and never shows why this is wrong.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:49
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Abu Dave posted:There's a scene where they try to humanize Mustafa (another line in very racist terms this movie uses) by showing he had a wife and daughter but this comes after you see that the wife is responsible for "ratting out" the location of troops. It's just really really gross. Like I had no knowledge going in about the movie when i first saw it, so I thought the first scene was setting him up as a child murderer. Then the "because I love america" poo poo came in and welp. Why is Mustafa racist? I googled around and it just seems like a super popular name? Not fighting it just don't understand.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:51
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xzoto1 posted:This movie sounds like it could have been great if it actually depicted Chris Kyle as a maniac rather than hanging from his nuts. I haven't seen it yet, but from what I gather that's how it plays out... Exactly. If they'd leaned into it hard and had him, like, finding WMD's and killing carjacking thugs and poo poo it would have been something at least.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:54
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A movie about a dude with such bad PTSD that it turns him into an insane person that actually shows sympathy towards a veteran instead of using them as martyrs for the red white and blue would be pretty interesting and probably really reviled.
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Jan 20, 2015 20:57
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bows1 posted:Why is Mustafa racist? I googled around and it just seems like a super popular name? Not fighting it just don't understand. If I recall correctly it wasnt even his name, just a name they gave him, like calling a spaniard "Pedro". I'm probably wrong though.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:01
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Abu Dave posted:If I recall correctly it wasnt even his name, just a name they gave him, like calling a spaniard "Pedro". I'm probably wrong though. You are. Mustafa the Syrian Olympic sniper did/does not exist. He was manufactured from a single line in the book. It is like naming a fictional character John. Lazy? Sure. Racist? Not really.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:05
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weekly font posted:A movie about a dude with such bad PTSD that it turns him into an insane person that actually shows sympathy towards a veteran instead of using them as martyrs for the red white and blue would be pretty interesting and probably really reviled. Hrmm. I think you might like this then. I know its Buzzfeed, but its about Nicholas Walker, an Army Medic who ended up being completely broken after returning from Iraq. To put in perspective, he scored 101 (out of 120, I think). To be Diagnosed with PTSD you need 65. Pretty much his formative adult years were in combat missions in Iraq and that made him incapable of functioning in normal society after.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:18
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The Gyllenhall/Tobey McGuire movie kind of hit on that.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:28
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Anyone have some excerpts from the book that showcase the insane jingoism/racism I hear it has?
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Jan 20, 2015 21:43
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From the kind of buzz this movie was getting, I was expecting something a hell of a lot different. Rogen is right, this is the American 2015 version of Nation's Pride, completely appalling on every level. The only honest thing that Kyle ever did was get gunned down by a PTSD victim, and instead of dealing with that, the film focuses on gloss, lies, omission and racism.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:48
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LesterGroans posted:Exactly. If they'd leaned into it hard and had him, like, finding WMD's and killing carjacking thugs and poo poo it would have been something at least. Maybe they should've had the movie spiral off into fantasy as Kyle single-handedly brings the middle east to its knees, finds all sorts of nuclear and biological weapons, kills other dictators, gives children footballs, discovers that all liberals share the "homo" gene (he'd be in a labcoat in this scene) and be carried off to heaven by a weeping eagle. Then the twist: it's the death hallucination of a homeless veteran, ruined by trauma and ignored by his government, dying in the street from exposure.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:51
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Sinnlos posted:You are. Mustafa the Syrian Olympic sniper did/does not exist. He was manufactured from a single line in the book. It is like naming a fictional character John. Lazy? Sure. Racist? Not really. Reminds me of Sunglasses in Black Hawk Down. Though there the book and movie is explicit that he's an unknown second in command guy that wears shades and is all over the place and efficient which is why he was noticed at all in the chaos of the situation.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:52
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Zerilan posted:Anyone have some excerpts from the book that showcase the insane jingoism/racism I hear it has? Working on it. But here's one from the end of the book that really illustrates Kyle's stance: quote:I don’t spend a lot of time philosophizing about killing people. I have a clear conscience about my role in the war. I am a strong Christian. Not a perfect one—not close. But I strongly believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible. When I die, God is going to hold me accountable for everything I’ve done on earth.
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Jan 20, 2015 21:57
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:We never knew in the first place why we went to Iraq. The whole affair was a fraudulent waste of life that's accomplished nothing but destabilization. And Uday's plastic shredding machine is now on display for the public, too. That is also a change.
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Jan 20, 2015 22:12
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Zerilan posted:Anyone have some excerpts from the book that showcase the insane jingoism/racism I hear it has? Somebody posted these in D&D a while ago:   To continue the quote, "dude
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Jan 20, 2015 22:25
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"I had the time of my life." Jesus.
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Jan 20, 2015 22:47
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Crain posted:Working on it. But here's one from the end of the book that really illustrates Kyle's stance: quote:I don’t spend a lot of time philosophizing about killing people. I have a clear conscience about my role in the war. I am a strong Christian. Not a perfect one—not close. But I strongly believe in God, Jesus, and the Bible. When I die, God is going to hold me accountable for everything I’ve done on earth. It's too bad there's no such god to judge his dumb rear end.
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Jan 20, 2015 22:53
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I want a Gladiator 2 style sequel where he goes to the afterlife and god berates him and sends him back here as an Iraqi child
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Jan 20, 2015 22:55
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mobby_6kl posted:Somebody posted these in D&D a while ago: He rationalizes this an awful lot like the SS Einsatzgruppen did during the second world war in Ukraine. It only lacks the self martyrdom part. The lack of empathy and understanding that each war have multiple sides to it and in some cases legitimate greivances on all sides (Less so in the occupation of iraq which was 100% a US initiated and enabled crisis).  I saw this movie, I hate how it portrays soldiers and glorifies Chris Kyles character. But it has all the technical qualities of Clint Eastwoods direction and Cooper was fairly convincing, still it's probably better if Clint sticks to world war II where he belongs. Edit: Oh an isn't it ironic that he has pretty much the same attitude in regards to the divine sanction of his actions that his Jihadi opponents have. Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 23:09 on Jan 20, 2015 |
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Jan 20, 2015 23:00
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The movie fails because it doesn't show him shooting looters from the roof of the astrodome, doesn't show him beating up Jesse Ventura, and doesn't show him killing two carjackers and then having the responding officers call the Pentagon on a secret phone number to explain that everything is cool.
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Jan 20, 2015 23:32
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Also doesn't show him finding WMD's.
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Jan 20, 2015 23:48
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Slugworth posted:The movie fails because it doesn't show him shooting looters from the roof of the astrodome, doesn't show him beating up Jesse Ventura, and doesn't show him killing two carjackers and then having the responding officers call the Pentagon on a secret phone number to explain that everything is cool. He never beat Ventura up. He pretty much made it up whole clothe. He lost a defamation suit which is a pretty rare thing. He also explicitly lied and said all the proceeds of his book would go to families of soldiers who died in active combat. 52k of his 3m have been donated, with zero plans to make an NPO.
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Jan 20, 2015 23:51
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Just saw this move as well. I guess in a vacuum it would be relatively solid, if by-the-numbers in terms of acting, plot, and cinematography, bit in context it's just complete poo poo. I actually wonder whether this saw significant editing after some test audiences or something. It seems like every now and then it just barely flirts with attempts at some ambiguity, only to them immediately veer away in a hurry going "nope, everything's actually fine". Like the time his superiors call him in about iraqi accusations about him being indiscriminate in terms of shooting, but all of a sudden that's immediately waved away and never heard from again. Same with the dead child at the beginning, the dude mopes about it for all of half a minute (and in a rather selfish manner to boot) and then the movie promptly forgets about it. The whole subplot about Mustafa the sniper seems to have been intended to draw some parallels between the two of them to humanise the Iraqis, but once again it was only the barest stub of a suggestion that never went anywhere. Also jesus christ what was up with those punisher emblems on their uniforms. It's basically this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU without even the slightest hint of self-awareness.
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Jan 20, 2015 23:53
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Mustafa didn't exist to draw parallels between the two, he existed to show that our snipers were god-family-country loving patriots, and theirs were highly trained olympic medal-winners, who abandoned humanity to savagely kill heroic americans.
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Jan 21, 2015 00:04
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Slugworth posted:The movie fails because it doesn't show him shooting looters from the roof of the astrodome, doesn't show him beating up Jesse Ventura, and doesn't show him killing two carjackers and then having the responding officers call the Pentagon on a secret phone number to explain that everything is cool. mugrim posted:He never beat Ventura up. He pretty much made it up whole clothe. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xECUrlnXCqk
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Jan 21, 2015 00:20
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There's a scene where you see Mustafa has a family, or that's what I took from it, and that's about the extent of his humanization other than brown man with gun.
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Jan 21, 2015 00:22
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Abu Dave posted:There's a scene where you see Mustafa has a family, or that's what I took from it, and that's about the extent of his humanization other than brown man with gun.
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Jan 21, 2015 00:26
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Abu Dave posted:There's a scene where you see Mustafa has a family, or that's what I took from it, and that's about the extent of his humanization other than brown man with gun. Mustafa uses his wife to help him find targets, placing her at risk. Mustafa came from Syria to Iraq, and is a foreign fighter. Chris keeps his wife at home, not letting her know what he does. Chris came from America to Iraq, and is defending the homeland.
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Jan 21, 2015 00:36
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I don't even want to get into the whole "it's a impossible shot" and the fact that he couldn't even confirm the shot in regards to Mustafa. This movie makes me legit mad.
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Jan 21, 2015 00:40
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I haven't seen it. You mean to tell me that all these ads making me think it's some critique of PTSD for Iraq war veterans is actually just some Fox News poo poo? What happened to the Clint Eastwood who made Unforgiven?
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Jan 21, 2015 00:49
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I think it's best if all of us just remember how great and beautiful Unforgiven is. 
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Jan 21, 2015 00:54
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Kart Barfunkel posted:I haven't seen it. You mean to tell me that all these ads making me think it's some critique of PTSD for Iraq war veterans is actually just some Fox News poo poo? What happened to the Clint Eastwood who made Unforgiven? American Sniper delivers multiple messages, including the harm that PTSD does. However, the largest takeaway is that ARE TROOPS are heroes and Chris Kyle is the biggest hero of them all and was able to get over PTSD by killing a really bad man and through sheer willpower. His brother, eager to leave Iraq is a pussy. Chris Kyle, real hero, knows what must be done and PTSD is just part of the sacrifice and he doesn't REALLY have it.
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Jan 21, 2015 01:04
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Sinnlos posted:American Sniper delivers multiple messages, including the harm that PTSD does. However, the largest takeaway is that ARE TROOPS are heroes and Chris Kyle is the biggest hero of them all and was able to get over PTSD by killing a really bad man and through sheer willpower. I feel like the film doesn't present PTSD in such an honest way either, though. In the film, I think, Kyle is presented as a super protector of the American domicile and accordingly his PTSD comes from his inability to save people. This would also be why at the end he's able to "get over" his PTSD by helping people. I'm not sure that the film shows that what he did to Iraqis ever actually weighed on him at all.
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Jan 21, 2015 01:15
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What loadout did he use I wanna plug it into Battlefield 4
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Jan 21, 2015 01:59
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A gun and a bible.
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Jan 21, 2015 02:26
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zVxTeflon posted:What loadout did he use I wanna plug it into Battlefield 4 http://www.imfdb.org/wiki/American_Sniper
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Jan 21, 2015 02:28
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zVxTeflon posted:What loadout did he use I wanna plug it into Battlefield 4 The Dude Used a mothershitrting BFG Over 9000
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Jan 21, 2015 02:59
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GORDON posted:And Uday's plastic shredding machine is now on display for the public, too. That is also a change. Yeah, I guess we got rid of Oofay and Goofay.
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Jan 21, 2015 03:21
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