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Is there anything in regards to the mechanics scene in the book? That part in the movie in my eyes was trying to paint the other marine as some pansy while Kyle was too cool for school
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Jan 22, 2015 03:04
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Abu Dave posted:Is there anything in regards to the mechanics scene in the book? That part in the movie in my eyes was trying to paint the other marine as some pansy while Kyle was too cool for school I literally just posted it. Go to my last post. Here it is, the book's version, again: quote:
Plays out mostly the same, but without any of the PTSD.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:10
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Oh, my bad. I see now where the movie tries to dramatize some things. I wish the original script would leak so we could see what changes went through between Spielberg and Eastwood. I have a feeling the whole first half with the cheating gf and such would've been nonexistent. That whole part screamed misogyny and pointlessness.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:16
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Abu Dave posted:Oh, my bad. I see now where the movie tries to dramatize some things. I wish the original script would leak so we could see what changes went through between Spielberg and Eastwood. I have a feeling the whole first half with the cheating gf and such would've been nonexistent. That whole part screamed misogyny and pointlessness. Hilariously there's a scene in the book where it's Kyle that's close to cheating on Taya, and the scene of him getting cheated on by an early girlfriend doesn't exist or at least isn't in the book. More changes.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:25
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My favorite part is how Chris is portrayed as a modest guy who shies away from praise or acknowledgement. Which is entirely consistent with the real life person who wrote a book about himself, made numerous TV appearances to talk about how awesome he is, and WE ARE WATCHING A loving MOVIE HE AGREED TO HAVE MADE. Jesus christ that's the literal opposite of avoiding the spotlight. Also how Chris makes a phonecall in the middle of a firefight while his squad is being shot at (because of him). Like holy poo poo if I saw one of my platoon mates doing that I would consider shooting them myself. limeincoke fucked around with this message at 03:44 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 03:41
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tanglewood1420 posted:Saw this earlier today. I cannot believe this is nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars. It's not so much that I find the movies politics questionable, to say the least, but IT IS SO loving BORING. Yep. I can't get worked up about the ethics of American Sniper because I'd have to actually care enough about the movie to engage with it in the first place, and good lord, it is so flat and lifeless.
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Jan 22, 2015 03:53
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MeatwadIsGod posted:It's crazy because you see language like Kyle's used as early as the Philippine That's really not crazy at all. If anything militaries these days are even more aware of the value of dehumanizing the enemy. If you can get soldiers to think that the people they're fighting are not really people, or in some way inferior - morally, culturally, religiously, technologically, etc - it becomes a lot easier to kill them, and those same soldiers are less likely to be traumatized by the killing that they do. So I'm not 100% sure what your point is - are you appalled that soldiers talk demeaningly of their enemies, or that this is shown in a movie? Because I think the first is, in military terms, productive, while the second is realistic.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:01
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Wait, the guy who wrote about Dick Marcinko was involved in writing the Chris Kyle book? That's loving hilarious and makes perfect sense. For reference, Marcinko is a ridiculous blowhard ex-marine whatever who is completely desperate to cash in on anything and claims to have done poo poo that's straight from an 80's action movie. They even made a lovely first person shooter about Marcinko where he was voiced by a super-bored Mickey Rourke having a particularly nasty spout of tourette's.
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Jan 22, 2015 04:07
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MANIFEST DESTINY posted:What we need is basically the same movie, but call it American Drone Operator. Boy are you in luck this summer* *Granted it looks like it tries to take on people wrestling with "Push button = Kill man."
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Jan 22, 2015 04:55
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Stare-Out posted:Wait, the guy who wrote about Dick Marcinko was involved in writing the Chris Kyle book? That's loving hilarious and makes perfect sense. For reference, Marcinko is a ridiculous blowhard ex-marine whatever who is completely desperate to cash in on anything and claims to have done poo poo that's straight from an 80's action movie. They even made a lovely first person shooter about Marcinko where he was voiced by a super-bored Mickey Rourke having a particularly nasty spout of tourette's. I met Marcinko very briefly at a company conference where he was promoting his then new game and book and I can say with authority that your description of him is 100% perfect. I wasn't planning on seeing American Sniper or reading the book in the first place but knowing that same writer is involved at all means I never will. HEY KID (we're all in our thirties/late twenties). *shoves autographed paperback into my hand* "I'm the ROGUE Warrior." That and also direct from his mouth everything in the video game is real. I actually played that game and, uh,  Everything about that book and game was pretty disgusting in all ways.
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Jan 22, 2015 05:17
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Stare-Out posted:They even made a lovely first person shooter about Marcinko where he was voiced by a super-bored Mickey Rourke having a particularly nasty spout of tourette's. Oh god, that game? I remember that game. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lIjdDZ7fPQ
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Jan 22, 2015 05:17
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don't know why but every Navy seal who comes out of secrecy to promote a book or movie comes off as a gung ho cowboy douchebag. "Woo look at me, i killed Bin Laden" not that the raid was even that spectacular, there was only like two armed guys, more credit to the stealth blackhawks aye.
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Jan 22, 2015 06:23
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I saw this movie the other night. I was interested in seeing it because the trailer hinted that it would come off as morally ambiguous and perhaps we would see some inner turmoil in the main character. I was wrong. It's not a bad movie, but its not great either. It's just ok. The most interesting parts were when he was back home and hes going through PTSD stuff but it was too brief
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Jan 22, 2015 07:32
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astupiddvdcase posted:don't know why but every Navy seal who comes out of secrecy to promote a book or movie comes off as a gung ho cowboy douchebag. "Woo look at me, i killed Bin Laden" not that the raid was even that spectacular, there was only like two armed guys, more credit to the stealth blackhawks aye. Probably because those Type A personalities are what make effective SEALs. Trollipop posted:I saw this movie the other night. I was interested in seeing it because the trailer hinted that it would come off as morally ambiguous and perhaps we would see some inner turmoil in the main character. I was wrong. It's not a bad movie, but its not great either. It's just ok. The most interesting parts were when he was back home and hes going through PTSD stuff but it was too brief Pretty much my reaction. I really wish I read the American Sniper first like when I saw Lone Survivor.
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Jan 22, 2015 07:49
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I heard that Spielberg was originally attached to direct and wanted to include a LOT more about the enemy sniper. Imagine a movie that showed how both of these guys inflicted horrible casualties onto their respective enemy sides, all in the name of jingoism, 'honour', religion and 'protecting' their family. It could have been great to show that these guys were two sides of the same coin. Their training, home life and inevitable showdown of 2 men who probably shared a similar philosophy. Dang man, thats a movie I wanna see. Unsurprisingly, They decided to focus on the half assed and cliched biography side of it for the oscars.
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Jan 22, 2015 12:19
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Slugworth posted:The movie fails because it doesn't show him shooting looters from the roof of the astrodome, doesn't show him beating up Jesse Ventura, and doesn't show him killing two carjackers and then having the responding officers call the Pentagon on a secret phone number to explain that everything is cool. Don't forget the part where he totally found the WMDs but they had German/French labels on them so of course it was covered up as part of a conspiracy. 
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Jan 22, 2015 14:08
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astupiddvdcase posted:don't know why but every Navy seal who comes out of secrecy to promote a book or movie comes off as a gung ho cowboy douchebag. "Woo look at me, i killed Bin Laden" not that the raid was even that spectacular, there was only like two armed guys, more credit to the stealth blackhawks aye. If you want a slightly different, third-party take, on Dick Marcinko, read The Rescue of River City by Drew Dix. Dix was a Green Beret in Viet Nam and ran into Marcinko and his team during the Tet Offensive. He and his team really aren't a major factor in what happened to Dix, but it puts the lie to some of Marcinko's boasting. I don't know Dix personally, but he finished his career at Fort Wainwright and retired up near Fairbanks. He's a pretty low key guy from what I'd heard from people that have met him. A civilian I worked with up there had worked with him for a while. Even the book is pretty low-key and fact driven, rather than "Rah! Rah! Blah!" poo poo that some of these guys put out. I guess it helps that he worked closely with indigenous troops, and has a lot of good things to say about them. I think the problem is that we really only hear about/from the loud mouths, and the guys like Dix don't really crave that sort of attention. Granted, he also wrote a book, but I'm betting that most of you have never heard of it, or him. Guys like Kyle and Marcinko do a huge disservice to their peers.
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Jan 22, 2015 15:29
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this was a great movie! I felt such an intense patriotic surge when he defeated the bad guys who were threatening our freedom
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Jan 22, 2015 16:10
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Lonos Oboe posted:I heard that Spielberg was originally attached to direct and wanted to include a LOT more about the enemy sniper. Imagine a movie that showed how both of these guys inflicted horrible casualties onto their respective enemy sides, all in the name of jingoism, 'honour', religion and 'protecting' their family. It could have been great to show that these guys were two sides of the same coin. Their training, home life and inevitable showdown of 2 men who probably shared a similar philosophy. Dang man, thats a movie I wanna see. I imagine this is the reason why Spielberg walked away, was because the studio working on American Sniper didn't want that. Spielberg is too liberal to make a film about Iraq. Americans are not ready yet to take a truly critical look at that conflict.
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Jan 22, 2015 17:08
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Lonos Oboe posted:I heard that Spielberg was originally attached to direct and wanted to include a LOT more about the enemy sniper. Imagine a movie that showed how both of these guys inflicted horrible casualties onto their respective enemy sides, all in the name of jingoism, 'honour', religion and 'protecting' their family. It could have been great to show that these guys were two sides of the same coin. Their training, home life and inevitable showdown of 2 men who probably shared a similar philosophy. Dang man, thats a movie I wanna see. I'd love to see what Spielberg's vision for this movie was. But at the same time I doubt that he'd be pushing a full on "Enemy at the Gates" reboot in the modern day. Mostly because the Mustafa idea is a complete fabrication, Kyle himself never even tried to push that he had some career spanning rivalry with an enemy sniper. I mean, considering what he did boast about, it would have been totally up his alley but even Chris "The Punisher" Kyle didn't try and push that narrative. It's interesting. In a vacuum I was imagining that this movie was toned down heavily to appeal to the modern view of the Iraq War. The book's message was 100% inline with the immediately post 9/11 view that we had to take the fight to the evil terrorists and was 100% inline with the GOP party line. So I was imagining that it was toned down to get broader appeal. But seeing others reactions it seems that it didn't even get to that point. Even people that fall for the "PTSD broke a humble hero" story line still hate the depiction of the Iraq War it's pushing. So who is this movie supposed to be for? It's not quite Right-wing enough for conservatives and it's still too Right-wing for Liberals. I'm honestly surprised it got nominated for any Oscars. Crain fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Jan 22, 2015 |
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Jan 22, 2015 17:16
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tanglewood1420 posted:Saw this earlier today. I cannot believe this is nominated for Best Picture at the Oscars. It's not so much that I find the movies politics questionable, to say the least, but IT IS SO loving BORING. I've been so confused about this movie for the past few days and this sums up my thoughts pretty well. I went to see it because it had decent critical reviews, then walked out of the theater as Chris and his wife were getting married, because Jesus Christ I was rolling my eyes so hard at that point that I looked like I was having a seizure. I feel like a crazy person because if someone does have a problem with the movie it seems to be politically informed, but I couldn't even get that far into the movie to give a poo poo. I didn't know that it was based on a real person so maybe they expected people to know that and made concessions based around it.
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Jan 22, 2015 18:33
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Android Bicyclist posted:Probably because those Type A personalities are what make effective SEALs. Maybe more like special forces, although there's plenty of exceptions, like Drew Dix mentioned earlier. If you've ever seen Heart Of Darkness about Francis Ford Coppola making Apocalypse Now, there's a bit where there shooting the hotel room scene and one of the military advisers has Martin Sheen as Willard pay attention to his lips in the mirror because, according to the adviser, spec-for guys tend to have a inflated sense of vanity.
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Jan 23, 2015 02:44
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It would make sense if those positions attracted a very, very odd breed of person. I know you have to be pretty exceptional to qualify, but it would be an odd personality type to want to apply.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:38
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Honestly, after reading the book and then reading the very indepth reviews posted here I have literally no interest in seeing this at all. Dude was a psycho looking to shoot brown people and this just confirms my opinion. Although, I was kind of sad to see that my favorite quote from the book wasn't here. "She made leather pants classy and sexy at the same time." What a bunch of horseshit.
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Jan 23, 2015 05:45
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Crain posted:
I think the rise of ISIS from the ashes of AQI and their success in taking over much of northern Iraq and eastern Syria has made a pro-Iraq War movie much more palatable to the general public.
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Jan 23, 2015 07:56
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Charlz Guybon posted:I think the rise of ISIS from the ashes of AQI and their success in taking over much of northern Iraq and eastern Syria has made a pro-Iraq War movie much more palatable to the general public. Wow, we, as a culture are black belts at missing the point.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:03
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Snowman_McK posted:Wow, we, as a culture are black belts at missing the point. ISIS has gone out of its way to make itself as hateable as possible to westerners by publicly broadcasting and boasting of many of its atrocities. It's not surprising that the average viewer is going to identify the enemy forces in this movie with that movement and thus support the American protagonist.
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Jan 23, 2015 08:20
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Snowman_McK posted:Wow, we, as a culture are black belts at missing the point. Its amazing to see it in action, I deal with it when I discuss this stuff with my sister. She constantly throws out lines like "well don't attack us(I suppose she's referencing 9/11 there....maybe) or you'll get whats coming to you", but when I respond by telling her about all the times in the past 75 years that we've hosed over the Middle East she doesn't really absorb any of it. These people over there are just inanimate engines of hatred in her mind, she absolutely doesn't see them as real human beings.
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Jan 23, 2015 15:38
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Charlz Guybon posted:I think the rise of ISIS from the ashes of AQI and their success in taking over much of northern Iraq and eastern Syria has made a pro-Iraq War movie much more palatable to the general public. Some how I completely failed to take that into account. Even though I knew about ISIS I still kinda thought we were done with this poo poo...
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Jan 23, 2015 15:43
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Crain posted:I'd love to see what Spielberg's vision for this movie was. But at the same time I doubt that he'd be pushing a full on "Enemy at the Gates" reboot in the modern day. Mostly because the Mustafa idea is a complete fabrication, Kyle himself never even tried to push that he had some career spanning rivalry with an enemy sniper. I mean, considering what he did boast about, it would have been totally up his alley but even Chris "The Punisher" Kyle didn't try and push that narrative. Yeah, my first thought too was Enemy At The Gates. But even that film had to pull a last minute trick of having Ed Harris killing the kid who supplied him information because otherwise he probably would have been too relatable considering his acts were no worse than the hero's. He had no real reason for murdering the child other than the fact he was a nazi. Besides that he was a great character. Again, a movie that pulls no punches on all the heinous poo poo that snipers do and how they psychologically process it would be a great movie. Upbringing of a Jihadist and crusader and their clash. It's the equivalent of Hector versus Achilles (If you will pardon my literary faggotry) As for all the Punisher imagery. I imagine that is to do with real life Chris probably loving the character. Which is ironic for a few reasons. He was reading Punisher: Max. Which is the ultra gritty, slightly deconstructionist view of the special forces soldier. Frank Castle (The Punisher) is a bad-rear end but broken individual. War has made him a cold, distant sociopath. He fights crime with his special forces skills learned in 'Nam because it's all he has left in his empty life. The really ironic thing for me is that a man like Chris, buys into the power fantasy and imagery of the Punisher. Pretty much the military equivalent of Superman. It matches his Black & White outlook of good vs. bad. It's not how the world works and is escapism. You would expect a man who has shot children. (Something Frank would almost certainly never do) to have a more mature outlook on life. You could ALMOST think it was a subtle remark about what Clint thought about Chris' politics. All that said. It's a great gritty comic and writer Jason Aaron's work post Gareth Ennis is actually closer to depicting the reality of a man like the Punisher (or Chris). PTSD, addicted to war, unable to function as a family man. It's a silly but heart-rending tale of his spiral into depression and disintegration of the soul. Highly recommend it. Lonos Oboe fucked around with this message at 15:58 on Jan 23, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 15:54
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Lonos Oboe posted:Yeah, my first thought too was Enemy At The Gates. But even that film had to pull a last minute trick of having Ed Harris killing the kid who supplied him information because otherwise he probably would have been too relatable considering his acts were no worse than the hero's. He had no real reason for murdering the child other than the fact he was a nazi. Besides that he was a great character. I'd have to see it again to be sure but wasn't Harris' character trying to force Vasilley's hand and induce a mistake? He knew that Vasilley had a relationship with the kid and would lose his cool if he was killed, he was trying to use that to his advantage. I mean its still a Nazi kinda thing to do but there was at least a motivation beyond just being an rear end in a top hat.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:11
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Basebf555 posted:I'd have to see it again to be sure but wasn't Harris' character trying to force Vasilley's hand and induce a mistake? He knew that Vasilley had a relationship with the kid and would lose his cool if he was killed, he was trying to use that to his advantage. I mean its still a Nazi kinda thing to do but there was at least a motivation beyond just being an rear end in a top hat. Also Harris' character told that little snot to go home to his parents and pretty much spelled out to the kid that if he caught him on the battlefield he'd kill him.
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Jan 23, 2015 16:19
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Lonos Oboe posted:Yeah, my first thought too was Enemy At The Gates. But even that film had to pull a last minute trick of having Ed Harris killing the kid who supplied him information because otherwise he probably would have been too relatable considering his acts were no worse than the hero's. He had no real reason for murdering the child other than the fact he was a nazi. Besides that he was a great character. That's the funny thing about the whole "Punisher" aspect. In the book it's pretty clear that at best these guys have only seen the movie or were just "reading a book by it's cover". There isn't any sense of irony with the platoon using the symbol or anything it's just straight up "HE PUNISH, WE PUNISH, BROWN MAN BAD NOW DIE!". Also, keep in mind that the real Chris Kyle, as far as his own book and words goes, also hasn't killed a kid. The opening scene in the movie was altered from the books account to include a child. And later on in the scene with the RPG, the version Kyle recounts has the kid being a gun runner for insurgents (and Kyle knowing this) and he states that he's "not going to kill a child, innocent or not". So there may be a much greater level of roleplaying going on there (i.e:adopting the concept of a "warriors code" that he follows no matter what).
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Jan 23, 2015 16:31
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Lonos Oboe posted:As for all the Punisher imagery. I imagine that is to do with real life Chris probably loving the character. Which is ironic for a few reasons. He was reading Punisher: Max. Which is the ultra gritty, slightly deconstructionist view of the special forces soldier. [...] What is the female equivalent of these? Romantic comedies? Ironic romantic comedies? Are there ironic romantic comedies?
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Jan 23, 2015 16:41
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meristem posted:Oh, so it's the same story as Wall Street, Wolf of Wall Street, Fight Club and however many other things? Part of the audience sees the irony, part takes the film/comic completely in serious, the author earns twice? The Backup Plan was kind of like that with things like the ridiculous kiddie pool birth scene and some other stuff. Also August: Osage County was pretty fuckin' weird for a movie about women in a family dealing with the death of their dad/eldest husband and the lunatic matriarch that gives everybody unending poo poo about everything.
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Jan 23, 2015 17:49
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Charlz Guybon posted:ISIS has gone out of its way to make itself as hateable as possible to westerners by publicly broadcasting and boasting of many of its atrocities. It's not surprising that the average viewer is going to identify the enemy forces in this movie with that movement and thus support the American protagonist. Westerners love ISIS, unambiguously evil Islamists who use twitter to taunt the media.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:29
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meristem posted:Oh, so it's the same story as Wall Street, Wolf of Wall Street, Fight Club and however many other things? Part of the audience sees the irony, part takes the film/comic completely in serious, the author earns twice? I seriously doubt that it WAS intended. I remember reading in Jarhead that the Marines loved to watch Platoon, Apocalypse Now and Full Metal Jacket. Cheering at the razing of the ville in Platoon. And clapping when the female sniper gets it in FMJ. Punisher Max straddles even less of an anti war line than those movies. The Punisher is a bad rear end mother fucker despite its anti war sentiments and it's entertaining. I can easily see readers seeing it as aspirational. My main gripe was that a so-called professional soldier bought into what is like a kids comic. It's like a coroner going home and watching CSI. I have zero doubt in the movie it was there to show off how badass Chris was and the reputation he built. I seriously doubt that it was meant as an ironic showing of Chris' juvenile (public at least) approach to war and 'honour' Nothing would point to that. I wish it did though. I wish this was a better movie. The films you mentioned never really came across that way to me. I remember being 15 walking out of Fight Club and understanding that it was all a bit silly. But the point you raised is a true one. My only suggestion is Sex and the city 2. But only if you squint REALLY hard.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:37
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Not sure if you mean to be implying this but that's how I'm reading it: Chis isn't the one reading the comic in the movie, it's another SEAL.
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Jan 23, 2015 18:41
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I'm not surprised they buy into that poo poo. My best friend is a Navy EOD tech that spent his deployment attached to a SEAL team in Afghanistan. According to him, it was like someone took a bunch of frat bros and spent a lot of money teaching them how to kill people. He said they were really amazing soldiers, but any time they had any downtime they just became loud racist weirdos. Apparently, a lot of them are kind of anti-technology, which struck me as odd. He said one guy didn't even know how to use a computer. Obviously they probably aren't all like that, but I'm certainly not surprised that someone would buy into the fantasy that a Punisher comic book is selling. It's not much different from all the preteen kids religiously buying Call of Duty games wanting to join Delta Force or something "because it's badass." A whole lot of people don't grow out of that phase.
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Jan 23, 2015 19:13
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:I'm not surprised they buy into that poo poo. My best friend is a Navy EOD tech that spent his deployment attached to a SEAL team in Afghanistan. According to him, it was like someone took a bunch of frat bros and spent a lot of money teaching them how to kill people. That's not surprising actually, I know when I was nearing the end of college that's exactly how I was approached. I ran a GameStop for a bit too and every Midnight when Call of Duty is coming out for like six* years they'd show up a week before asking if they could have a recruiting table set up outside during the Midnight launch. They literally do sell it as "It's just like Call of Duty! You get to learn how to shoot the real thing!" This isn't an exaggeration, I saw it happen annually for ages. *They did not do anything to promote Modern Warfare 2 because it has that level where the only allowable action is shooting civilians. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 05:27 on Jan 24, 2015 |
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Jan 23, 2015 20:55
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