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My god has anything in recent memory done more to discredit "the American Left" then the b-list celeb twitter brigade and sanctimonious poo poo posters proudly bleating on about how Chris Kyle and anyone like him deserve to die? What the gently caress kind of progressives do you people think you are? Amazing how people can start a sentence saying American Sniper wasn't tolerant enough and end it by saying anyone who is moved by or enjoys the movie or has respect for veterans are all ignorant pieces of poo poo. Amazing.
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Feb 17, 2015 12:58
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Fangz posted:You seem quite angry about this. Maybe a little. The fixation I've seen in some people on despising Chris Kyle for being proud of his service and saying racist poo poo about his enemy and the concern trolling about ISIS fighters is worse than a Breitbart comment chain about Obamacare. Had friends on Facebook who never even seen the movie quoting lazy headline grabbing tweets from Seth Rogan like he is some intellectual and trotting around 'otherization' like the movie was some neoconservative plot to indoctrinate Americans to supporting genocide. I just finished rewatching The Pacific where every other line or scene is about killing subhuman savage warrior japs and the hate fear and massive amounts of killing with all the hosed up veterans who survive the experience and get changed for the worse. Where's the liberal moral outrage over those innocent misunderstood imperial Japanese soldiers and the monstrous Marines who wrote memoirs about their service and conditioning to kill? War is always the same and it's never good. Wasn't that Clint Eastwoods entire point? In this thread alone people are quoting Chris Kyle justifying to himself all the killing he had to do as some egregious evil thing. Uh you realize it's probably either that or suicide for lots of vets? Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 14:06
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All these twitter day slacktivists circle jerking over a dead douchey redneck who ran his mouth off all the time like they're any better should probably go to a Veterans Hospital and soapbox there about WMD to the crippled crazy racists who dared to kill in war and tell me how good you feel about bestowing true liberal American virtues to those ignorant simple folk?
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Feb 17, 2015 15:29
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Most of the posts here are more bigoted, prejudiced, and inhumane than anything in Chris Kyle's memoirs. At least he had the excuse of PTSD for being an rear end in a top hat. Calling him a sociopath for thinking Iraqis were savages is saying the same thing about my Vietnam vet father who is a good man otherwise and God knows how many other veterans of all stripes who were conditioned to kill and hate. Let alone all the tone deaf bullshit slamming on Southerners or conservatives with different values and cheering Kyle's real life tragic murder trying to find peace with fellow hosed up dudes. Seems like he was trying to help and who knows in ten years maybe he'd be telling the next generation to not send the boys in to die or be maimed or go crazy. We won't know because he's dead but people here read three quotes from a best selling author and think they know a man's soul, and condemn his memory like tumblr gods passing judgement. The only circle jerk ignorant American propaganda jingoism I've seen about American Sniper is from liberals. The hypocrisy is pathetic
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Feb 17, 2015 16:25
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Wade Wilson posted:EDIT: The real disconnect here is the "liberals" that take issue with the idea that the movie American Sniper displays anything that isn't actually believed to be true and morally upright by the vast majority of Americans. Yet the movie is the most successful R rated film of all time? Are the vast majority of Americans watching it just to poo poo post about WMD? Sounds like some ivory tower distasteful bullshit to me. Like all the criticism. Just so negative and hateful and full of sweeping generalizations. That's how liberals talk now? Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 17:28 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 17:22
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Armyman25 posted:So, I've been to Iraq, am I qualified to say the movie sucked? Yeah that's fine that's movie criticism. Not pop psychology denouncemets of some dead dude and hateful bashing of the movies fans over spiteful political bipartisanship that is so toxic and divisive. This thread has some poo poo heads but at least also some insightful perspectives going on. I just came off catching up on poo poo like Salon.com articles that sound like sjw tumblerite crap constantly 'dehumanizing' Republicans, soldiers, Clint Eastwood, and then a meaningless blurb about WMD like it has to be a political attack on one side or the other. Like you aren't a liberal if you don't say propaganda three times in your lovely op ed or post. Seems like a new low in civil discourse when all the people involved in the production are just happy it was successful and will get attention to vet hospitals and stuff but people cite Seth loving Rogen twitter trolls as some more important prescient rally call poo poo to hate. Just the negativity and spite people keep hurling online at a movie that might dare be meaningful to someone else for entirely different reasons like their dad died in Iraq or something. You don't have to love the loving Bush Doctrine to find meaning or enjoyment from a movie. Wade Wilson posted:Is English your first language? Uh yeah? Is my grammar even incorrect there at all? Was this your first troll? Douchebag. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 18:42
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:What if it's a bad movie that glorifies and justifies the Bush Doctrine. That didn't seem to cross your mind. I didn't even like the movie that much. Just the tone people on 'the left' been using is so against any sort of common decency. Like all emotional knee-jerk reactionary bullshit you'd expect from the stereotypes everyone keeps bashing. American Sniper as propaganda that needs to be corrected and belittled is to me the same as Fox News War on Christmas poo poo. Stupid as gently caress.
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Feb 17, 2015 18:52
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Lurdiak posted:Pictured: Smoothrich's posting in this thread. Hahaha yeah basically. No qualms with most posters here just real surprised at this movies success and the harsh blow back everywhere on the Internet. I mean it's not really an exceptional movie or really that offensive on its own. I didn't know poo poo about Chris Kyle myself but once it was a hit all the haters started bashing the dude the movie is loosely based on for being a bullshiting braggart racist redneck which I mean it's America who gives a poo poo what someone else believes? The movie could do some good too you know by raising awareness for disabled veterans and their health care. Yeah its retarded to take PTSD vets out to a gun range, but if people really care enough to poo poo talk Chris Kyle about it maybe your time would be better spent lobbying or volunteering for job training and rehabilitation programs that don't get people killed instead. And maybe if half the media bashing American Sniper now were against the Iraqi war in the first place.. Generic Hollywood military action ending with an almost ruined marriage and then double homicide doesn't scream white washing the Iraqi War to me either, its just sad instead. I can't imagine anyone came out of that movie wanting to be a sniper killing civilians unless they're like a dumbass 12 year old who shouldn't be watching an R rated movie to begin with.
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Feb 18, 2015 01:09
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I read With the Old Breed by Eugene Sledge too, the basis of the best Pacific episodes. It's some disgusting shocking poo poo, and the HBO series covers a surprisingly large amount of it. I mean they're going around ripping gold fillings out of still alive Japanese fighters mouths, finding dead Marines strung up with their severed dicks shoved in their mouths, Marines immediately stop taking prisoners and have to kill tens of thousands of expert fighting fanatic Japanese defenders in the middle of loving civilian centers in Okinawa where over a hundred thousand civilians died, so much awful stuff, everyone was fighting to kill and hated each other on a primal level that seems indescribable, but that book comes close. The second Pacific episode features John Basilone who literaly Rambo'd in his hands his heavy machine gun and spent three days high on adderall with no sleep killing possibly hundreds of people and won the Medal of Honor, hosed super models on tour as an American Hero, then went to Imo Jima and died on the first day from a mortar in the middle of him like single handedly assaulting machine gun nests in a kill frenzy all over again. I bet if John Basilone had a twitter he'd be all #killingjaps every day. Shits crazy. In this thread alone people posting basic facts about Chris Kyle killing tons of people, getting famous, and poo poo talking rebel Iraqis and concluding he was an evil sociopath who deserved to die. Uh okay? The people and places can be different from but the story is always the same. Just seems wrong to attack this guy so much and the attitude is that only ignorant brain washed racists could get something out of the movie without going all autist dwelling on every real life flaw of the person in the movie that people liked. It's a circle jerk film event but it's liberals doing the jerking over a dead guys corpse. It's weird. I'm very liberal and anti war and could never get worked up that poo poo. Like American Sniper is causing harm to American society or something? That the movie is dishonest manipulative propaganda without a cabal of shadowy neoconservative supervillains appearing in the last act admitting to doing 9/11? Would the critics really liked the movie more if the script had more racist poo poo in it to be more like the book, or less to be more uh, sympathetic to radical Sunni insurgents in the same cities with the same rebel army known as ISIS today? I don't get that either. Too racist! Not racist enough! That he must've been a sociopath war criminal serial killer to shoot people in a war as a soldier is my favorite though. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 06:55 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 06:51
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I want to see a shot for shot remake of American Sniper but it's called German Sniper and Chris Kyle is a Wehrmacht soldier and he's shooting Russian women and children. The exact same movie except Kyle is a soldier for the Nazi regime and he's shooting Russians defending their homeland. I'd release it on Christmas Day. Just strip away the whole contemporary American identity politics angle and let's see what kind of movie it is at its foundation. Every nation has its soldiers and every war has its reasons. Up to you how you feel about them.
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Feb 21, 2015 07:25
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Do people not understand how lots of Americans ended up enlisting into the military after their patriotism was stirred by the events of 9/11? Pretty common shared experience. The Nightly Show's episode on the film had a US sniper admit that is what made him sign up himself, and talks candidly about his experiences killing people and struggling to adjust to society after four or five tours in Middle East wars. And it's not loving Hollywood that dehumanizes people in war, it is war itself. You think you'd feel any different about some groups of people after spending years overseas watching men of another language and culture kill your buddies while you kill them? I'm sure some vets don't break bad that way but many others struggle with their experiences, carrying hate and regret over all the suffering they and their comrades endured. I think it is missing the forest for the trees to say depicting racism, hatred, patriotism, and false political narratives is the same thing as endorsing them. Look buddy, we invaded Iraq, and killed tons of people. This movie is depicting those events, from the perspective of a particular American sniper who wrote a best selling memoir about it. HBOs The Pacific is a never ending stream of vile dehumanizing things and words by US Marines calling Japanese people savages. Because that's how people loving talk in war! So much moral superiority in people who don't seem to understand what they are criticising.
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Feb 23, 2015 03:58
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mugrim posted:Then name it American Soldier instead of American Sniper? With Chris Johnson instead of Kyle? The reason Kyle's count is so high is in part due to the fact he had experience and training PRIOR to the invasion and prior to the surge of Americans enlisting. Why even use a real person? This movie would have actually been cheaper if they made it up whole clothe. He wrote a best selling memoir about it. I knew nothing about Chris Kyle and I'm afraid people's preconceptions of a guy who lived in the information age where anybody can be a wiki expert really ruined this movie for people. Like people watched this film with Michael Moores fat face bleating out disparaging tweets as running commentary and the idea of a screen play adaptation can nowadays be spun as unethical distortion of facts. Talking about the facts of Chris Kyle is to me like criticizing the design of Transformers robots as ruining ur immersion cuz it don't match your original manga. Then blaming it on Fox News.
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Feb 23, 2015 05:15
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Clint Eastwood isn't deciding foreign policy. Neither are fans of the movie. Neither are you thankfully.
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Feb 23, 2015 05:38
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Its a loving movie! And made loads of money. It was an extremely successful adaptation of a book into a typical but topical war film, showing some tough stuff but presented without criticism or condemnation to be inoffensive and probably a relatable story of a soldier and his family dealing with war. The obvious intent of the story is to help people be more sympathetic to veterans who need help dealing with bad to some immoral things they had orders and training to do. Like kill a gently caress ton of people. Lots of families have dead or distant fathers or brothers or just loved ones and it's an appealing story to some. That's why people liked the movie! Not because it glorifies and justifies the loving neoconservative worldview! You people are crazy.
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Feb 23, 2015 06:52
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You know let Clint Eastwood himself defend the movie in this thread. http://m.thestar.com/#/article/entertainment/movies/2015/01/13/think_before_you_shoot_clint_eastwood_says_of_war_interview.html Toronto Star posted posted:
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Feb 23, 2015 07:20
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:If the "obvious intent" is to be more sympathetic to veterans, why did they very deliberately attempt to mislead the audience and reframe the context of the Iraq War? Tell me exactly how that in any way, shape, or form contributes to a more sympathetic view of vets. But I'm guessing you are just going to ignore this to tilt at straw men instead. Reframe the context? Who's context? You think some people didn't see 9/11 happen get motivated to join the military then ended up in Iraq as part of the War on Terror? There's a connection between the events there, are you wilfully ignorant of experiences that aren't identical to your own? That's the whole point of stories..
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Feb 23, 2015 08:01
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Justin Godscock posted:I saw the movie, finally, tonight. It really reminds me of Full Metal Jacket in a way that it is totally blank and absolutely impartial to war and just shows it how it is which is violent, horrific and traumatizing but leaves the morals and politics out of it to allow the audience to determine what they think of the concept of war. Because the Those edits and I'd agree completely with your post.
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Feb 23, 2015 08:07
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Grizzled Patriarch posted:The historical context. This film tries very hard to push the false narrative that Kyle joined because of 9/11 and that Iraq had anything to do with 9/11 / Al-Qaeda. But that's why thousands of people probably signed up for the military! It's not exactly what happened to Kyle, but its representative of many other real life people. Do you understand what I'm saying? The narrative of a soldier joining the military because of 9/11 but fighting in Iraq is not a propagated lie, its reality! A real experience many have had. Soldiers don't decide where they get sent to! There is nothing in the movie warping history here, just an omission of you know hours of complexity and introspection into American foreign policy that was never the point of this film. You and people with your criticism need to seperate your feelings about the Iraqi War from what the movie actually depicts. So much projection going on. Just like a kid might've heard news about Pearl Harbor and enlisted, many soldiers saw 9/11 and enlisted for all the same reasons. That 9/11 was manipulated into real propaganda by real politicians doesn't change the emotional connections many people have between all the events of the time. The movie isn't that obtuse, and I'm just stunned I've heard this criticism parroted by so many people, that the movie is trying to say Saddam Hussein did 9/11. Its just a kneejerk response not grounded in reality, but in political bitterness and an undercurrent of bigotry towards conservative Americans or military veterans.
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Feb 23, 2015 08:30
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So do you think every fan of the movie is racist and or ignorant of recent history? Besides those twitter trolls about Muslims sound like some of the commentary about soldiers, Chris Kyle, and conservatives from the leftist critics which is my entire point. People are too partisan nowadays to hold any sort of real conversation about topical things without pandering to stereotypes and generalizations.
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Feb 23, 2015 10:38
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Mr. Flunchy posted:No they don't. Guess I'm either with you guys or against you right? Mission accomplished. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 23, 2015 11:24
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Glad I'm not alone in thinking a lot of you guys are way off about this movie. It's like people's politics are controlling their feelings. Same movie but it took place in Vietnam? People don't give a poo poo about that history anymore and would probably feel bad for the elite sniper. Maybe turn him into an alcoholic too or something. A classic.
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Feb 28, 2015 03:35
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computer parts posted:If my history classes (and my dad's before me) are any indication then you won't get within 30 years of the present day in any of your high school history classes. The Soviet Union still controls half of the world probably in my elementary school according to the huge maps hanging up on the wall when I was there in the mid 90s. But most textbooks I've seen at least try to cover the War on Terror which yes involve both 9/11 and Iraq no matter your politics. Hopefully ISIS won't be on the next edition of maps hmm. The curriculum itself tho just tends to run out of time by the 60s no matter what it seems yeah which is way more of a problem than this movie.
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Mar 2, 2015 01:04
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Snowman_McK posted:It cuts directly from 9/11 to him being in Iraq. If you don't think that implies a connection, you may have misunderstood how editing works. The connection is that he enlisted in the military because he saw 9/11 happen, like what thousands of people did in reality. That he ends up in Iraq killing the wrong people for no good reason compared to his original motivations is ironic but honest. Dare I say you are some kind of blowhard idiot?
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Mar 3, 2015 06:28
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I dont even remember hearing the words Islam or Muslim in the movie once. They are his enemy cuz it's a loving war! He was sent there to kill enemies of the USA government, that is the role of our military. Of course it's awful that any of that happened but it did. Soldiers get sent to war for reasons they often don't fully understand but many choose to trust their government and believe in their mission whatever it is. I'm drat well sure someone like Chris Kyle was motivated more about saving the lives of his people then ending the lives of their people, even if they are the same thing in the end too.
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Mar 3, 2015 07:28
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I dont think soldiers are saints, they are trained killers. Are soldiers supposed to feel guilt about killing?
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Mar 3, 2015 12:32
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Mormon Star Wars posted:In the south, deer hunting is viewed as evidence of skill. I think many people who saw the movie would view a comparison between killing a child-terrorist and killing a deer as an example of how his mastery filtered through to all aspects of his life, including his life as a civilian. You know I used this angle kinda on Facebook to a friend of mine bashing American Sniper who didn't even see it but had a strong opinion about the film being propaganda based on the liberal media echo chamber criticisms he read. He actually compared this movie to the ISIS immolation video of the Jordanian pilot which is what set me off in this thread in the first place when I got fed up with the bashing. He said I was the first person he read claiming that the movie focused more on the ultimately tragic experiences of soldiers trained to kill coming home to families and civilian life with PTSD and the legitimate struggles they may endure in finding meaning in a world after years of killing and hate, inability to relate to others who don't understand what it's like. Which I think the real world ending of Chris Kyle's life beautifully encapsulated when he began to find meaningful redemption in relating to even more hosed up vets over war stories and gun ranges, a dangerous self destructive combination that defies our logic and common sense but made sense to Chris Kyle and ended with him being loving murdered shot in the back by an even crazier dangerous veteran with a gun in a firing range that Chris Kyle was trying to bond with and help. My friend said everyone else who likes the movie claims it's about depicting Chris Kyle as a hero who was haunted by the people he didn't save instead of the lives he took. I said well he could be seen as a hero to someone who thinks being highly accurate with a rifle is heroic. But the movie doesn't glamorize any of it very much, and I doubt most people would feel good or want to cheer the battle scenes in any way. I read interviews about this movie where someone saw the film in military base communities with families of soldiers and everyone was silent and many crying at the end of the movie, not hooting and hollering the killing, which sounds right to me and I think is how the movie connected with so many people. Yes in the South, or anywhere in the country with gun or military culture, being good with a gun is seen very differently than in cities where guns just mean violence and crime. I think of guns as violent tools mostly used in socially destructive ways, but I'm from New Jersey next to Newark where every major city is a gang war poo poo hole and only heard gunshots when it was an act of violence. But to some, it's just a different set of values and experiences. Positive relationships with guns growing up with their dads or friends, learning to handle firearms and respect them a point of view that is real different from many others and causes like culture war poo poo. My dad was a Vietnam veteran with guns, always locked in a safe and shown to me like once ever, but I went hunting or shooting a few times as a kid with him. I hated it, but I didn't hate him or my brother who joined a rifle club and learned marksmanship like a sport. My dad also got into arguments with me when I was a kid talking about how I've been reading about poor places around the world and didn't understand why more wasn't done to help. He got indignant that third world people were often savages, not people like how we in America were. Horrifying to hear but I dropped the subject, but here and there he would say crap like telling my nerd friend about to go to Japan on a student exchange trip, to never trust Asians. That they'd be his tour guide during the day and throw grenades in his or his buddies tents at night and kill them. Half joking but half you know deeply set racial hatred poo poo. I get mad, very mad when I read the vitriol about Chris Kyle cuz he actually wrote down his story and his world view. Chris Kyle is clearly a racist lying blowhard but for one he is an American and he has the right to be as full of poo poo as he wants. He thought he was Walker Texas Rangers and lied that he punched out a loving governor and all that, who cares? He got sued for it like he should've, and that's not in the movie so why harp on about it? Now the big loving point here that I get the most worked up over is just how everyone is mad in the wrong direction. People talk like Clint Eastwood and Chris Kyle are the moral equivalents of Dick Cheney or Donald Rumsfeld. They absolutely loving are not. Clint and Chris both fought in war as soldiers, they didn't give the orders to start them. And Clint has made a career trying to communicate that war is a serious loving thing, not playing Cowboys and Indians, that the military of a nation is filled with ordinary people doing things that are absolutely ridiculous, inscrutably demanding, and if they are lucky enough to live through it, cause lifelong scars some visible like having no legs and some invisible like Chris Kyle in this movie. The character in the film doesn't even understand how war has changed him, which the last act with Chris at the doctor asking questions is all about. But once he's back with fellow vets talking about the poo poo and shooting guns, he's a little better. Cuz those veterans are changed forever by their experiences. In ways that people can't or refuse to understand unless they have served, or maybe close family members have served and maybe died or turned into distant assholes or something. I think that's how this movie became so successful,it's not about celebrating war but it's about trying to teach some loving respect to the rest of us that God willing will never have to see a battlefield ever. America has a great military, but it deserves great leaders who understand the significance of the decision to use it, cuz it will gently caress up entire generations of families on every side of the conflict. That is why he made Flags of our Fathers and Letters From Imo Jima for example, to take away the glamorization and mythification of it. American Sniper is not designed to sell you a war and you are a loving idiot, doing a disservice to the anti war philosophy and the thousands of soldiers who probably wish we never went to loving Iraq either. It's designed to well, sell you a movie ticket mostly and boy was it successful at that. But it's made from Chris Kyle's point of view, where he basically was some divinely sanctioned warrior killing for his country and had the personal responsibility to save the lives of all his fellow soldiers, by killing everything he saw in his scope with peerless precision and accuracy. He probably thanked God for the winds every bullet that landed home like an NFL player thanking God for helping him catch a football and win the game. The amount of partisanship that exploded over this movie really depressed me. Reposting montages of conservative twitter racists ain't poo poo we should expect that vocal minority in everything. But all the progressives, anti war people, left leaning writers artists and posters, I was deluding myself I guess that they have higher standard, more critical thinking skills, not as prone to knee-jerk reactionary bullshit that divides Americans more than anything, the crap in every news comment section. But with American Sniper, the news comments mentality finally entered the mainstream, and the discussion was bullshit prattle about tweets and condemnation, WMD and 9/11, racists and rednecks and Chris Kyle's offensive memoir like any of it is addressing anything that could change lives for the better. And the irony is Chris Kyle actually died to help the Americans who suffered the most from the needless war in Iraq, the ones who got hurt fighting it! gently caress! Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 05:07
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Invalid Validation posted:I still can't believe he took a PTSD man to a gun range. He should have gotten help from a real organization that could tell him he's being dumb. But he's a real man that don't need any of that baby psychological poo poo. You're totally right of course. And buried in the partisan bullshit over the movie it's producers and directors of non profit veterans lobby groups have said they have received record donations and attention since the movie came out and they couldn't be happier. I think I've heard PTSD described as a silent struggle alot of times and men are culturally conditioned to not talk about or confront those kind of feelings or issues and it's one of the root causes of veterans turning into druggies alcoholics criminals homeless unemployed divorced suicide statistics all that lovely stuff. Chris Kyle ended up murdered. People say it is a negative that Chris Kyle's memoirs do not discuss PTSD while saying the movie should've focused more on it in between saying both are disingenuous. But I mean that's pretty much the point. Chris Kyle and many other veterans don't understand PTSD and do dangerous poo poo because of it to treat the symptoms. The movie is doing a good thing for society by having that message and maybe promoting organizations that can help people who are still suffering from our dumbass war in Iraq. They are victims of lies and propaganda too just in a different way than Iraqi soldiers militia and civilians are. Alouicious posted:that's just what a leftist would say I am a leftist. I think my left wing values mean I should be sympathetic to people who I disagree with when there are root causes to people becoming racist violent crazy people, just like there are reasons black communities struggle with violence and crime, instead of attacking people for turning out messed up. It's what upsets me about many of the critics who share my politics. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 07:04 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 07:00
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Snowman_McK posted:There's a better phrase for it It ends with Chris Kyle being murdered by an American soldier, in America. Shot in the back on a shooting range after four or five tours in a war zone, by the kind of guy Chris believed he was fighting to save all along. Happy ending?
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Mar 4, 2015 07:25
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I dont think Chris Kyle is a monster, just an rear end in a top hat. What did the movie do so wrong? Didn't pepper his dialogue with enough ethnic or religious slurs? It means nothing. Chris Kyle was a soldier with a family, was highly decorated for his success at his role of being a sniper, and was a victim of murder. You want two additional hours of Chris Kyle getting drunk and raging at pussy liberals and watching Fox News or something?
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Mar 4, 2015 07:32
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socketwrencher posted:i think the movie wants to honor veterans, and sanitizes Kyle's story to make him more representative of the average soldier so more civilians can relate. Yes that's what it is. Make a broader message to sell more tickets and be more relatable to mainstream audiences. People call it propaganda but it's not selling us war it's selling us movie tickets and a sense of respect. Not specifically for Chris Kyle but veterans and their families in general. People can't get over the fact that Chris Kyle was documented to be an rear end in a top hat. I saw the movie before I knew the story behind it and had a radically different experience then many it seems. I recently saw The Pacific again and if you guys wanna see the dark inhumanities of war that was the goal of that series and it's wonderfully made but really extreme. Of course it didn't resonate with audiences that well though and no one talks about it today. Eugene Sledge in that series and his memoir With The Old Breed is the story of a man on the abyss of depravity, stopped short by his hardened buddy from digging the gold out of a dead Japanese soldiers mouth as the defining moment, who through years of struggling at home eventually learned to live with what he endured. A southern boy and avid hunter, one of the most powerful scenes I ever read or seen is him hunting with his dad, who's trying to reach his distant depressed son, and breaking down crying unable to kill a living thing again. But he's a different person than Chris Kyle and it's a different story. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 08:46 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 08:38
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mugrim posted:Actually Kyle (both movie and real Kyle) reenlisted multiple times. You can't say you are just following orders when you choose repeatedly to follow said orders once out of the situation. You know it wasn't until a few years into the war we really realized how hosed everything was. By then though, many soldiers must've felt an obligation to see the mission through, out of loyalty to their fellow soldiers still there if anything. I've read numerous examples of WW2 veterans who got wounded and had their ticket back to the states to get back to their families and live in peace. But instead they'd break out of hospitals and rejoin their units out of a feeling of duty to their fellow men. In the movie it's very clear Chris Kyle doesn't see it as his mission to get revenge for 9/11 or end Saddam's tyranny and ensure free elections in Iraq, at least after a while. It's because his mission is to protect other Americans fighting overseas, as a sniper watching their backs. He'd be, in his mind, letting people down and directly be responsible for American soldiers being killed in action if he wasn't there, taking the shots he was gifted at making. I mean the movie is called American Sniper for a reason. He didn't want or know how to be anything else. It's a real legitimate problem with military veterans. In The Pacific there's a great scene when Eugene Sledge is applying for college and a lady keeps asking him what skills he learned that would translate to an academic field to study. He tells her ma'am the Marines taught me how to kill Japs and survive, it was a killing war and I got real good at killing. If that's not a course here I'm sorry. But someone had to do it, and most of my buddies were killed or wounded in the process. Many veterans are involved with NGOs and stuff trying to get military training to count as college credits or offering job programs catered to the skills people picked up in our wars in Iraq and Afghanistan but it's hard. Once again, when wars are over many veterans are forgotten and they become homeless or drug addicts and crap. You sound very ignorant when you criticize people like that. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 13:27 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 13:24
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Armyman25 posted:Most people keep reupping becuase it's their career. Once you've served 8-10 years you are pretty invested and will try to stick it out till 20. The military is very banal and making comparisons to WW2 isn't very helpful because yhe nature of the conflict and society are very different. Well WW2 has the best movies just like the best Call of Dutys. But the military teaching you skills that don't translate very well outside the military seems true then and now from what I hear. Though the GI Bill seems very helpful. People always say how boring and repetitive military life is, but was that true even during the height of the Iraqi War? Especially for a Navy SEAL sniper or other highly trained operative? Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 14:50
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Don't bother with that mugrim guy Cole some people don't post to debate or get other people's points of view it's just to pontificate their opinions. But you and other veterans definitely have opinions or insights on this movie that have been lacking in the discussions. Though I've read a good amount of people who say they fought in Iraq and also have a bad opinion of American Sniper but not much substance to their critique outside the Iraq 9/11 connection which I think is a common misreading of the film, connecting the neoconservative justification of our invasion instead of Chris Kyle's personal motivation of enlisting.
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Mar 4, 2015 17:21
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I grew up next to NYC and we had the most fervent anti Iraq War protests in the country before we invaded. People who lived through 9/11 there tho many of them started blaming Bush for it and every drat protest got hijacked by the lunatic conspiracy fringe and I spent more time yelling at fellow protesters then accomplishing anything. But when half a million people on the eve of war many like me who knew people personally who died on 9/11 didn't believe the hype all marching and screaming we don't want another war gets less mass media attention than a dozen tea party activists carrying AR15s in a Walmart to protest illegal immigrants and poo poo what the hell is the point? Also two people in my highschool joined the army around then and fought in Iraq. Both came home after their tours and committed suicide within the year. One guy had a loving wife and he hung himself in their home. The other blew his brains out. Smoothrich fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Mar 4, 2015 |
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Mar 4, 2015 19:42
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I bet New Yorkers were the first to stop caring or should I say, fearing. We had to tune out daily reports of terror level alert escalations as it became white noise that lingered for years. National Guardsmen with M4s slung on their shoulders in subway stations made everyone pissed off and uncomfortable instead of feeling safe but thankfully went away after a few months. But my god was it infuriating to see that empty hole in the ground where the twin towers once stood as construction was delayed for over a decade. The actual attitude around ground zero was real funny actually. New Yorkers stop for nothing and give no shits about other people so you'd see them pushing tourists out of the way who wanted to 'pay their respects.' What they got was street vendors selling hotdogs and marked up I<3NY t-shirts with plastic twin tower figurines and drunk vomiting bums who lived in nearby porta potties who slowly attack pedestrians like slow shambling zombies with a big stupid construction site behind a fence where no one actually built anything like a big Mafia scam. Everyone hated George Bush more than Bin Laden too. I think he was blamed for 9/11 more than I ever heard bad about Muslims or Saddam. Hearing politicians invoke 9/11 for any reason would cause both Republicans and Democrats in that area to wanna yell shut the gently caress up! And give them a smack for disrespect. I dont think many people bashing American Sniper were actually politically active or cognizant then either. Republicans and Democrats both turned their backs on that war and our reasons to invade once the CIA reports on uranium rods and chemical weapons all started to be exposed as bullshit. It became indefensible and it still is. Jeb Bush is already giving speeches saying the Iraq War was foolish and wrong. In fact the Iraq War will probably tank any chances he has for president because people hate it so much. People are stupid if they think American Sniper could heal those wounds even if it was genuinely designed to be a whitewashing propaganda piece on invading Iraq, which sounds as crazy as arguing Bush did 9/11.
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Mar 4, 2015 20:16
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We just need better security nets for people like veterans, they are one of many groups that are sociologicaly at risk for falling through the cracks if you will. Homeless dead or in jail. That's what happens when people are ignored or invisible. This can be rape victims, drug addicts, minorities, mentally ill, veterans, illegal immigrants. When people don't really care about these issues or only in token ways like bumper stickers or Facebook shares, society becomes a worse place for everyone. American Sniper seemed to have this message but people act like it's not even there, and turn it into partisan political bullshit ignoring individuals who might need our support as a shared society, which is exactly the problem.
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Mar 6, 2015 01:54
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Panzeh posted:If you're going to talk about how veterans deserve respect, maybe they should be professionals. Part of being a professional soldier is not whining to everyone else about how your benefits(which are better than most people in the private sector) aren't good enough. Be professional and then sit down and shut up. If/when you quit the Army, go find some other work or stay if you can't do anything else. I kind of agree with you that veterans shouldn't be treated different from other people for their line of work and tough experiences. Many people like EMTs or social workers, caretakers of elderly, even the cops we often hate on see things as hosed up as a soldier would in a warzone with neglected abused children, violence, crime scenes, grime and garbage feet high in a dead old persons house. I think everyone could be treated better and more open about the poo poo side of life though. It's wrong to condemn one group for sharing their experiences cuz you have it as bad, when you could be finding common ground with them. There's a better path for society pushing forward with how open and easy we can communicate with each other, outside of the filters of corporate media and garbage propaganda spinsters. This movie just made me think about that a lot. Not the movie itself but people's reactions. We are using the Internet so incorrectly when it's just thrashing pop culture pieces and parroting partisanship positions, instead of discussing shared human experiences with an open mind.
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Mar 6, 2015 03:33
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Cole posted:For what it's worth, I don't ever tell people I'm a veteran until it's relevant to the conversation for the sole purpose of not getting treated any different than anyone else. I don't even ask for military discounts anywhere. Yah but when you got life experiences that are different from others you probably have different reactions from them on things like this movie. It'll mean something different to you, and it's valuable to share different opinions in a discussion. Or else you get echo chambers like this thread was where everyone agrees American Sniper is pro war propaganda when me and you see it differently, for our own separate reasons. My dad could of been Chris Kyle so I don't hate on him cuz my dad is a racist rear end in a top hat kind of guy talking about third world Asians, has guns, and is emotionally closed off not talking about war experience stuff to anyone probably ever. Yet ppl here say Chris Kyle memoir don't mention PTSD struggling with killing and horror like he didn't feel it when he probably just didn't or couldn't express that side of him. I love the Internet cuz I can read regular people from all walks of life relate themselves to each other removed from the bullshit like the Cheney Rumsfeld lies and dishonesty that still define Iraq to many. But some people hear crap they disagree with and think your brainwashed or pathetic or something instead of just different. Veterans are out there making the best arguments against war and for support groups and job training for people like them so nothing wrong with being honest about who you are if it could do good or teach people something new.
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Mar 6, 2015 08:16
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Your right. You can tell them that to their Internet faces and ask for them to defend themselves, the people who want to glass the Middle East. No way to get past racist regressive poo poo unless people know there are other ways to think and good reasons why. I wonder if there are reasonable Iraqis posting somewhere who speak English and experienced our invasion from a different perspective like one the divisions that surrendered immediately. And you don't have to respect people's opinions but many people have more nuanced thinking than you can figure. Maybe kill all hajis means kill all ISIS types that were commanding child soldiers and suicide bombers but they don't communicate it good enough to not sound racist. I doubt even the craziest marine redneck wants to see innocent children be victims of war even the children of their enemies, unless they are true sociopaths.
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Mar 6, 2015 12:57
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 00:16 |
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This is historically accurate you aren't talking about Saddam doing 9/11 are you?
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Mar 7, 2015 00:33
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