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While Ubisoft may have the right, legally and morally, to do this, it's still bad PR. The money that went unearned isn't going to magically appear just because they closed the loophole after the fact. The people who bought the keys are not going to rebuy the game at a higher price because they've either already finished it, are pissed off at Ubisoft for taking it away, can't afford the full price or don't care. So what Ubisoft should have done is written off the keys as marketing, gone after the sellers and have a scary sounding warning pop-up every time someone who had one of the keys ran the game that they got it illegitimately and it could be taken away at any time.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:43
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I bought my Far Cry 4 code from another Goon and he's not an official Ubisoft vetted price gouging retailer. Technically they should deactivate my key because i dared scoff at their ridiculous and greedy pricing model 
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Jan 25, 2015 17:44
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Roflan posted:While Ubisoft may have the right, legally and morally, to do this, it's still bad PR. The money that went unearned isn't going to magically appear just because they closed the loophole after the fact. The people who bought the keys are not going to rebuy the game at a higher price because they've either already finished it, are pissed off at Ubisoft for taking it away, can't afford the full price or don't care. So what Ubisoft should have done is written off the keys as marketing, gone after the sellers and have a scary sounding warning pop-up every time someone who had one of the keys ran the game that they got it illegitimately and it could be taken away at any time. Ubisoft has to pay a fine to credit card companies for every individual charge back. This is how charge backs work. If someone buys 1000 keys with a stolen credit card, and they initiate a charge back on those 1000 keys, you need to refund all 1000 charges and pay a $2 fee for each key. Ubisoft is only getting flack for this because Assassin's Creed was buggy. Much like when EA got flak for having the same ToS as Steam when Mass Effect 3's ending was bad. This is standard practice, has happened many times in the past EVEN ON STEAM and why discussion of these sites was banned.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:45
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They have to do that whether they invalidate the keys or not.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:46
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They are going to suffer the financial loss either way, the smart thing to do would have been to let people keep their games but make a very obvious statement that in future cases games may be removed if the keys were purchased fraudulently. No one who had a game removed is going to rebuy them, they will just pirate and Ubisoft had very little goodwill left to lose with those who are still loyal to them. It's a case where they had absolutely nothing to gain by taking a certain action and they took it anyways. Harry Joe fucked around with this message at 17:51 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 17:48
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VarXX posted:Ubisoft is only getting flack for this because Assassin's Creed was buggy. Are you loving serious? Have you not been paying attention to how Ubisoft treats PC users for the past several years?
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Jan 25, 2015 17:50
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VarXX posted:Ubisoft is only getting flack for this because Assassin's Creed was buggy. I don't buy that at all. Ubisoft is getting flak for this from the PC market because of their awful UPlay DRM/online store you have to launch and log into in addition to the actual DRM/Store Steam provides. Ubisoft has been hated for it's policies regarding the PC long, long before the buggy Assasin's Creed Unity came out. I don't think people would be anywhere near as mad if that was the only beef prior to this.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:51
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Unity was poo poo tho, this is fact.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:53
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computer parts posted:Oh no, what will I do without my video games. The amount of UBI defenders in this thread is hilarious. Aside from straight up stolen keys (which doesn't sound like the majority of these are) Ubi still got their cut. Just a smaller cut than if someone bought from the more expensive regions. It's so sad when more profits could have been had.
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Jan 25, 2015 17:56
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Harry Joe posted:They are going to suffer the financial loss either way, the smart thing to do would have been to let people keep their games but make a very obvious statement that in future cases games may be removed if the keys were purchased fraudulently. Let's be honest here, supposing Ubisoft had made that sort of statement some time last year, would you actually remember it? Would it actually change how people react to this in any way at all? The general concept of "if you buy stolen goods, don't expect to keep them" shouldn't have to be re-explained to people. Sucks for those who thought they were actually buying legit keys though.
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Jan 25, 2015 18:02
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Jabor posted:Let's be honest here, supposing Ubisoft had made that sort of statement some time last year, would you actually remember it? Would it actually change how people react to this in any way at all? But Ubisoft is eviiiiillllll for not letting people keep their potentially stolen poo poo.
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Jan 25, 2015 18:48
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I think some people are upset because they believe Ubisoft is revoking copies of any games redeemed in the US from a cheap region, not just the stolen ones. Most of the information about this is forums rumor, so people are having a hard time nailing down exactly what's going on. I mean, the ruble has poo poo the bed so hard that I wouldn't be surprised if they did decide to just revoke any Russian keys redeemed to a US Uplay account. It's the exact reason that Steam blocked gifting games from other countries late last year. e: This isn't the first time this happened either. There was an MMO called Fallen Earth a few years ago that had a bunch of keys suddenly show up for 1/3 retail price on IntKeys, despite the company only selling the game in the US and not allowing players with non-US IPs to connect. A ton of people got their accounts cancelled because the publisher allowed people to buy keys directly from the site and someone sold IntKeys all of their keys using stolen cards and form-filling software. Nobody was really shedding tears for people over that, but that's because the publisher was super upfront about how no regional price differences exist, and anyone selling at a discount got the keys illegitimately. Sumac fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 20:42
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Darkhold posted:Aside from straight up stolen keys (which doesn't sound like the majority of these are) The majority of these are stolen keys that Ubisoft isn't getting any share of. There's a reason that the sites that are having their keys revoked are ones that you're not allowed to talk about on SA.
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Jan 25, 2015 20:45
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VarXX posted:Blame Russia's economy. Everyone is taking steps to prevent this stuff now and it isn't exclusive to Ubisoft. Steam started region locking every game to prevent this for instance. I'm pretty sure if they were stolen, they would be black market. Grey market is an entirely different thing.
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Jan 25, 2015 20:50
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Len posted:But Ubisoft is eviiiiillllll for not letting people keep their potentially stolen poo poo. Not all sellers do this. Do people even have proof? I don't think GMG sell stolen keys. Buying keys in cheaper places and selling them for cheap here isn't illegal, costco does it for watches, so I'm baffled why people want to defend ubisoft. hemale in pain fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 20:58
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Pirate Jet posted:The majority of these are stolen keys that Ubisoft isn't getting any share of. And your proof is ...? One big issue where is the lack of communication. Sure, if Ubi wants to ban keys that were stolen and then resold, then that's their choice no matter how good or bad a decision it is. But they need to inform people, somehow, that is what's going on. Banning keys and not telling anyone why is going to put everyone on edge. And after being treated poorly for a long while, that little bit of stress of "did I get a good key from a good site?" is just pushing people over the edge to the idea that Ubi games are more effort than it's worth. Whilst I agree with Roflan and Harry Joe (they've lost the money no matter where the keys are, why piss off the customers too), and the regional pricing sentiment, I think a lot of people would be a lot less frustrated if they did come out and inform people what's going on. As it is, the only thing we know is that lots of people are having products they've bought revoked. Lots of people are going to be worried about that. I mean, there is always going to be a group of people that complain, but the trick is not willing dumping every other customer in to that group.
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Jan 25, 2015 20:59
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Buying poo poo for cheap and selling it for a large markup is the basic principle of capitalism and if Ubisoft don't like it they can gently caress off to Russia where everyone will pirate their games anyway. Seriously though, virtually any other product does exactly the same thing. Why are video games exceptional? Why Ubisoft games in particular?
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Jan 25, 2015 21:01
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It happens all the time though??? Here's it happening on Steam last year http://www.vg247.com/2014/06/30/sniper-elite-3-steam-key-cancelled-price-fixing-allegations/ Here's an indie developer getting hosed over for $30,000 because someone bought in bulk with stolen credit cards then sold to G2A https://unknownworlds.com/blog/beware-shady-key-resellers-and-discount-steam-keys/ Here's another developer screwed by G2A abusing the humble bundle promos  EA banned keys belonging to Origin users who bought BF3 from Intkeys and Activision has pulled Call of Duty copies off steam accounts for buying off Intkeys and G2A hemale in pain posted:Not all sellers do this. Do people even have proof? I don't think GMG sell stolen keys. Buying keys in cheaper places and selling them for cheap here isn't illegal, costco does it for watches, so I'm baffled why people want to defend ubisoft. Ubisoft is not removing GMG keys. The only copies that were removed were from cdkey sites like G2A and Intkeys VarXX fucked around with this message at 21:13 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 21:03
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Pirate Jet posted:The majority of these are stolen keys that Ubisoft isn't getting any share of. quote:Oh, and this also affects stuff like Nuuvem/Green Man Gaming from what I've been able to dig up ( same with Sniper Elite 3 awhile back ), which makes it less "them drat russians" and more "What the hell Ubisoft.", because last I checked they do buy their keys direct from Ubisoft/are legal enterprises. quote:
If they are wrong and this is all just rumor than fair enough I guess. I don't know anything about G2A or whatever it's called. vv Guess I stand corrected. Sucks to gamble on the grey market but thems the breaks. Darkhold fucked around with this message at 21:17 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 21:14
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Darkhold posted:If these two posters are accurate then yes Ubisoft is getting a share of these sales. Nuuvem, Green Man and GPU giveaways are all legit. They're not accurate. No one who bought off Green Man has had their games removed. It's strictly keysites. Green Man also did not remove Sniper Elite 3, that was an inaccuracy in one of the original articles. Greenman is an authorized reseller. The only people affected by this are people who did not buy from authorized resellers, Nuuvem, Greenman and GPU vouchers are all fine.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:16
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I agree that stolen keys are obviously bad, I didn't realize those sites were so obviously selling them.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:17
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While consumer laws vary from one country to another. I'm actually curious about the legality of this. If a 3rd party key seller presents itself as a reputable business and a customer buys a key from there in good faith. What rights do Ubisoft have to then remove the ability of the consumer to use said item? It's not the customer's fault that they didn't know about the site's unclear and publically unconfirmed murkiness in regards to stolen cards and whatnot. Yet Ubisoft are directly putting consumers out of pocket without providing evidence that the code being used is in fact stolen and not simply a key obtained from another cheaper region, though the alleged mass banning of all keys from certain sites. It doesn't really seem like something that would stand up in any kind of legal proceedings because there'd be far too much burden of proof on Ubisoft's part that would be simply unobtainable. The biggest one being did the consumer know it wasn't a reputable site? Head over to G2A and it looks super legit, with huge social network operations, slick designs, weekly paypal sponsored/supported deals and refund services in place set up to protect the consumer. Anyone pointed to that site by someone saying "get cheap games" would be hard pressed not to think everything's above board like other 3rd party sites.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:33
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It would probably be easier to take seriously if these kind of arguments weren't used all throughout pretty much everything to justify dodgy pricing practices and other such things that usually screw the consumer out of money. Digital medium takes it to an entire new extreme. The bigger issue is why is regional pricing, particularly of exclusively digital products, a thing in the modern world? I can think of no particular reason why a digital key should be worth more in one country than another. These companies need to get their head out of their rear end and realize that if people are willing to buy these games at these site there is presumably a reason for doing so (rather than pirating them, for example) and they should maybe focus on identifying what that reason is and how they can use it to sell more games, rather than issuing draconian and punitive measures when people CLEARLY want to give them money because they bought the game somewhere (as opposed to pirating them, which this is just going to force people into)
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Jan 25, 2015 21:46
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The reason games cost different digitally in different countries is they have to match brick and mortar stores. It's the same reason consoles can't go full digital or make digital games cheaper than physical copies. You can't stab the person selling your hardware in the back like that. Imagine if gamestop just stopped selling Ubisoft games.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:52
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So they have to fix prices, you say? That sounds like an interesting concept.
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Jan 25, 2015 21:54
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Tyty posted:The reason games cost different digitally in different countries is they have to match brick and mortar stores. You mean like what they've been wanting/threatening to for over a decade back when used game sales were a bad thing? Likely the entire reason Ubisoft made Uplay so they can cut out bothering with physical products at all? If it isn't one arguable consumer benefit eating at even more undeserved money, its another. Don't buy Ubisoft, they hate you no matter what platform you use. Crabtree fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 25, 2015 |
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Jan 25, 2015 22:36
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Kin posted:While consumer laws vary from one country to another. I'm actually curious about the legality of this. I'm guessing it would be completely legal if the keys were originally stolen, or purchased with stolen credit cards/charged back. It's pretty common practice for companies to ban/disable keys under those circumstances. However, if they are being disabled simple because they have been resold - that probably would not be legal. It seems to me that this would have to be the former, as how are Ubisoft going to have any idea what keys have been resold and what keys haven't.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:42
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They have ways of knowing if they are stolen are not, again, a tiny indie team was able to do this I imagine a big company would too. The sites that people who had their copies revoked bought from are all sites that have sold stolen keys in the past. Just the fact they isolated the keys to those sites, sites they don't actually distribute keys to, should also be a warning sign.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:46
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People complaining about uplay or origin is my favourite thing because they aren't any different to steam, they just weren't the first one on the block. Origin gives out free games like the current promotion for theme hospital and uplay gives out free dlc packets like extra in game quests or horse armor or whatever. Uplay even lauches smoothly straight out of steam and does its own cloud saving and screenshotting while allowing the steam overlay to stay active. Complaints about pricing are also hilarious because video games are hardly some staple good everyone needs so there isn't a good reason to not opperate on the line of reasoning that if you don't think the game is worth what the creator wants you to pay for it then don't loving buy it. Going to somewhere you know has a really shady history and potential to be loving over the creator is just like paying for a illegal streaming site because its cheaper than cable.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:47
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Don't buy ubisoft pc games. It isn't hard.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:50
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You don't need video games to live so gently caress you if have any problems with them.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:53
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It's not like you're missing out by not playing ubisoft games.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:54
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Byolante posted:Complaints about pricing are also hilarious because video games are hardly some staple good everyone needs so there isn't a good reason to not opperate on the line of reasoning that if you don't think the game is worth what the creator wants you to pay for it then don't loving buy it. Going to somewhere you know has a really shady history and potential to be loving over the creator is just like paying for a illegal streaming site because its cheaper than cable. Gaming is essential to life. Just as I need air to oxygenate my blood so do I need games to pixelate my soul. Charging more than $12 for a AAA game that released two weeks ago is depriving me of an essential need. I then have no choice but to buy Russian keys from Crazy Dimitri's Used Key Emporium.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:56
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Ilustforponydeath posted:It's not like you're missing out by not playing ubisoft games. I bought the new Rayman games last year and thought they were really good 
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Jan 25, 2015 22:58
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Crabtree posted:You don't need video games to live so gently caress you if have any problems with them. this but unironically
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Jan 25, 2015 22:58
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Byolante posted:People complaining about uplay or origin is my favourite thing because they aren't any different to steam, they just weren't the first one on the block. Origin gives out free games like the current promotion for theme hospital and uplay gives out free dlc packets like extra in game quests or horse armor or whatever. Uplay even lauches smoothly straight out of steam and does its own cloud saving and screenshotting while allowing the steam overlay to stay active. The big difference: steam works. Uplay makes you jump through so many ridiculous lovely hoops it's not the same thing at all. Here's what I do when I want to play a Steam game: I load up steam, and play the drat game. If I want to play a uplay game, I have to load up uplay, wait for it to update (using its slow as poo poo servers), then load the game, hope there isn't an update as that will be forced to download aswell, then eventually I get to my game. Assuming of course the always-on DRM hasn't decided to lock me out of the game.
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Jan 25, 2015 22:59
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So that makes stealing okay then
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Jan 25, 2015 23:03
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Ddraig posted:The big difference: steam works. I keep hearing these horror stories of uplay which I have never seen happen. It always downloads at my max download speed, it lauches just fine out of steam and it doesn't lock me out of my games. I have a ever so sneaky suspicion that the sort of people saying uplay is broken are the same people who are saying green man gaming keys are being revoked, ie people spreading bullshit
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Jan 25, 2015 23:06
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My critique of Uplay and how poo poo it is isn't making a statement about any such thing so why would you try to draw that equivalence? Going to lay my cards on the table here: Stealing is wrong. Ubisoft hasn't given any particular evidence that these keys were stolen. Were these keys actually stolen I'd say it was well within Ubi's rights to do whatever, but there hasn't been anything particularly compelling to believe they were other than "These sites are kind of shady" which is a flimsy legal premise to begin with, what with that whole presumption of innocence thing.
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Jan 25, 2015 23:08
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Haruharuharuko posted:So it seems Ubisoft isn't sitting on its laurels when it comes to bad PR moves as of yesterday the companies Online DRM/gaming service Uplay has begun voiding keys for Farcry 4, Watchdogs, Assassin's Creed Unity and more purchased through 3rd party companies like Kinguin, allkeyshop, and intkeys. I bought Farcry 4 on console for some reason and now I'm not regretting it as I usually buy keys from Greenmangaming for Steam and apparently Ubisoft is no longer giving a poo poo what the PC gaming market thinks of them. IMO that's a heartfelt act of charity. Byolante posted:I keep hearing these horror stories of uplay which I have never seen happen. It always downloads at my max download speed, it lauches just fine out of steam and it doesn't lock me out of my games. I have a ever so sneaky suspicion that the sort of people saying uplay is broken are the same people who are saying green man gaming keys are being revoked, ie people spreading bullshit personally? I already own games on Steam, everyone I know uses Steam. I don't like EA or Ubisoft anymore than I like Valve. It's a pain to have to use more than one client.
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Jan 25, 2015 23:08
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