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Hidingo Kojimba posted:Yeah that was pretty awkward. I've never studied theology but even I know a monk of Bernard's standing isn't going to be remotely blindsided by the problem of evil. I actually did Philosophy and Ethics, mostly covering Christian theology because hey, Catholic school, and it seemed Bernard's issue was less to do with the problem of evil and more trying to find some resolution in the cosmological arguments for God's existence, and what exactly his 'will' is, given he somehow controls all reality and yet gave people free will. The most obvious bit, to me, is when he mentions Thomas of Aquinas' counter to the concepts of affirmation and negation, since a popular concept for Christian scholars (and still somewhat is today) is that you just couldn't know anything about God precisely because He's supposed to be transcendent and such, and Aquinas deconstructed previous ideas on how you could try to figure Him out through citing specific acts in the Bible as indicating what He did or didn't like (ie, you shouldn't use the battle of Jericho to indicate that God inherently supports conquest) outside of clear cut instructions like the Ten Commandments. What Maria presents him with is basically existentialism - ie, if you can't find inherent meaning in life, make your own - and it seems that to Bernard, that lets him resolve the issue of being able to properly rationalise God's existence by basically realising he doesn't need to, and he can instead let the idea of God be self evident by the application of morality by people, meaning there must be something out there. Yes, there are a lot of fallacies and inductive leaps involved, but such is what you can find in many of the arguments by religious scholars of the time, since they were assuming God is real and trying to find proof from there, rather than starting from no assumptions and seeing what they arrived at in conclusion. Edit: tl;dr ^ What he said This show has been frankly quite interesting for me to watch as a British Catholic with a massive history bent, if you couldn't tell. That said, it seems like Bernard could go either way with Maria, and her how he judges her in the trial. She's basically a walking ball of irony as far as being a Christian is concerned, so whilst strict law of the time demands destroying her as a heretic (and Gilbert prefers sticking to that law), he might try to save her as his little pet project of reconciliation.
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Mar 9, 2015 00:38
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Not sure what the other show, but in Maria's case, I'd say its because the writer (whether the original mangaka or the head writer of the anime) actually has a decent understanding of Christian theology and symbolism. The monsters don't just blow up into crosses - their names and appearances are specific references to folklore. The names mentioned in Bernard's philosophical ramblings are actual philosophers and, even if glossed over, the references fit with what he's been musing. Maria herself is specifically loaded with the kind of symbolism and attitude that should make her like, a super Christian, but is subverted by her being a witch - a point that Bernard even picks up on in universe.
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Mar 9, 2015 12:16
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Rodyle posted:There's something funny to me about the inquisitor's reaction. "flying, barriers, fire, whatever but holy poo poo a cat girl! I think its meant to be that he actually recognises her as the girl he was speaking to at one point (though I can't remember the exact episode), but that might just be her looks having been based on that girl - ie, same way Priapus is modelled after Joseph. Though it is admittedly just funnier to imagine that's where he draws the line on supernatural nonsense. Also I'd be surprised if Joseph made it out of this. Seriously, the death flag is just so obvious
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Mar 15, 2015 20:43
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Lucy Heartfilia posted:Christian proselytizers probably annoyed the author one time too often. Heh. Yeah, even as a Catholic, its impossible to deny that the religion, either directly or as the savoury front for politics, has led to a lot of suffering in history. A thing to remember for the particular context of the show is that the Reformation hasn't happened yet, so both sides are the same denomination, and so are almost certainly working more on their nationality than their faith - but its easier to claim the enemy are godless heathens that need to be wiped out, rather than, y'know, just say some dudes on a throne are fighting over their respective claims for France.
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Mar 16, 2015 12:29
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So, Bernard demonstrates my point clearly. Didn't care that his supplies were coming from a witch, so he could use it further his own aims. Also I think its been a long while since I've seen the power of love played in such a straight fashion, but it actually makes sense when placed in context. Though it kinda leaves me wondering if all of this is now meant to have been some gambit set up by the big G, or some weird deal with Michael, since Maria seems fine to see him at the end, and he sure as heck wasn't interfering in that last display of magic. Yet, you know, kind of a dick way to go about teaching a lesson if it is (though admittedly that can be kinda standard for God).
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Mar 22, 2015 16:46
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There Bias Two posted:Meh, they've had a handful of conversations through the whole series. But I guess that's accurate for teenage romance? I was more interested in the fact that the waif-like redhead was able to toss a full-grown man in armor over one shoulder and stroll out casually. Who the hell is she? I wonder if she's more than she appears. ...I realise what I said by 'in context' may have been a bit odd. I wasn't actually referring to the romance in itself, so much why it had an actual effect in restoring Maria's powers. Namely, that Maria was too in shock/traumatised from Galfa's assault to be able to wield her magic, whilst the confession and subsequent acceptance made her self-confidence and happiness skyrocket so she was back in full swing.
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Mar 22, 2015 18:24
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Yeah, I'd mirror that statement. Especially in light of the general subject matter and the material it had to work with, its surprising how well it held up in general. A lot of series, both East and West, would kinda just stumble over themselves trying to tackle the theological concepts. The big theme that seems to pervade the series, at least to me, is the conflict of faith, whether religious beliefs or ideals, against reality, whether its Michael actually existing to Bernard's absolute horror, or Maria being an oddfish for actually trying instead of just accepting the way things are. I don't think its intentional, but I find it interesting that the most amicable or otherwise good natured of the cast among the Catholics are those willing to accommodate others so long as they're good (see: how Martha and family treat Maria), or actively challenge the inconsistency between what their faith says, and how it seems to actually play out (Joseph shooting Michael being one of the more dramatic examples). The bad guys are largely those who either follow the teachings to the letter, but don't stop to question them, or pay lip service to the notion of being a 'good Catholic', before say, killing their fellow Catholics for flying the wrong flag, or sending a mercenary out to rape someone. And of course, you have the witches, particularly Maria, who are mostly good people, but are deemed monsters for not conforming to the standards of their time (primarily as witches, the way they dress and their attitudes about say, sex, have to be fairly deliberate). There's a number of things you could have them stand in for, but in general they seem to work well as the Other targeted simply for being Other, even though they're better people than what a lot of society will otherwise tolerate.
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Mar 29, 2015 20:24
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