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Apple2o posted:Isn't there some thing about letting your light levels tank for big loot though? Everyone spamming torches might just be fun-hating babies. I would assume that is more viable + sensible when you have a couple levels in the Guild or Blacksmith so you can use gear or skills to mitigate some of the negative aspects of low light (although you do get +Crit % for being in low light)
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Feb 1, 2015 21:32
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MotU posted:Are you constantly refreshing torches and using Stuns against the enemy? My first game I had like 8 guys at 100 stress after 3 weeks but once I realized what the troublesome enemies were (Skeleton Courtiers, Female Cultists, Anything with a Bow or Gun while in the back row) and that high torchlight is necessary for the early game it was a lot smoother sailing. Also that Leper/Hellion/whatever/Occultist is an awesome combo. Yes, yes, and and no I don't have any +stress traits. A single missed stun or shuffle effect can end up tanking your stress. I'm not complaining, by the way, but there's still an RNG.
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Feb 1, 2015 21:39
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Apple2o posted:Isn't there some thing about letting your light levels tank for big loot though? Everyone spamming torches might just be fun-hating babies.  We JUST finished describing it earlier on the very page you posted on. Lets not go in circles.TLDR: Its not worth it. Early game keeping stress down and making it through the full quest is way more important, quest payouts are pretty huge. Keep your light topped off constantly and abuse all the special moves you can. Eonwe posted:so every stream I've watched, they walk into two rooms and are at 100 stress I've gone from finishing every level with full stress and having to switch between an A team and a B team while putting people in the bar, to only filling up my bar about 30% on each quest. Huge improvements. You definitely learn the game and get better at it over time. MotU posted:I would assume that is more viable + sensible when you have a couple levels in the Guild or Blacksmith so you can use gear or skills to mitigate some of the negative aspects of low light (although you do get +Crit % for being in low light) Exactly. If your group is over-leveled for a certain quest, then you can push things and let the light level lag and get dangerous. But if you're getting your rear end kicked then keep it high! And if you're trying a new mission on a higher level, keep the area lit. Bring torches. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Feb 1, 2015 |
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Feb 1, 2015 21:43
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Don't underestimate the Jester's value for this either, stress management got many times easier once I started running with one. I typically let him hang out in the back for a few rounds buffing everyone's accuracy and using his stress reduction ability as needed, then have him come flying to the front and tear some poo poo up at the end. Shuffle him into the back of the group when combat's over, repeat. His stress reducing ability (edit: Inspiring Tune) currently says it just heals "target", but I've found that it often hits 2-3 party members. It seems kind of random now that I think about it, sometimes it won't hit the specific person I'm targeting, maybe just an incomplete tooltip at this stage. RightClickSaveAs fucked around with this message at 21:51 on Feb 1, 2015 |
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Feb 1, 2015 21:47
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If you're having a hard time keeping stress down, I'd definitely recommend a Jester. He has pretty decent offensive capability in the 3rd slot, and then you can shift him back to the 4th and have him spam 'Inspirational Tune' to lower the party's stress when facing less deadly opponents. That one ability is really a gamechanger, like the Plague Doctor's back row stun or the Occultist's super healing ability. ^^ Edit: Jinx!^^
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Feb 1, 2015 21:50
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RightClickSaveAs posted:Don't underestimate the Jester's value for this either, stress management got many times easier once I started running with one. I typically let him hang out in the back for a few rounds buffing everyone's accuracy and using his stress reduction ability as needed, then have him come flying to the front and tear some poo poo up at the end. Shuffle him into the back of the group when combat's over, repeat. I tried that but even with a Jester going full stress song every turn, it still didn't seem to make a huge impact  And somebody earlier said that upgrading heals didn't upgrade how much they healed for, which is totally false. Upgrading heals at the guild will increase the ranges.
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Feb 1, 2015 21:51
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Zaphod42 posted:I tried that but even with a Jester going full stress song every turn, it still didn't seem to make a huge impact
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Feb 1, 2015 21:53
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Zaphod42 posted:I tried that but even with a Jester going full stress song every turn, it still didn't seem to make a huge impact The Vestal Group heal stayed 1-2 for me from lvl 1 -> 2, not sure if it goes up at a higher level or what
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Feb 1, 2015 22:09
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RightClickSaveAs posted:I've found it to be a cumulative effect throughout the whole run, if you pop it at least once every round, the first rank heals 4 stress and will often hit more than one party member, which I've found adds up over time. Yeah but I was using it every round and having it hit 3-4 party members each time and it still didn't feel like much MotU posted:The Vestal Group heal stayed 1-2 for me from lvl 1 -> 2, not sure if it goes up at a higher level or what Well yeah, its a tiny range, that's how its gonna play out. Think about it, the value is 1-2. Each rank is going to increase the ability like 10%. If upgrading group heal went from 1-2 to even 1-3 or 2-3 that's a HUGE change. That's a 50% increase. Hitting all 4 party members means you're going from 8 to 12 total healing. With group heal I bet you'll have to get it to the 3rd or 4th or even 5th rank before you see a healing upgrade. Same with the crusader's dinky 1-1 heal/buff, I bet you'd have to get it to like 5th rank before it heals for more. His 1-3 heal on the other hand probably goes to 1-4 at like 2nd or 3rd rank. But the Vestal's main 3-5 heal or the Occultist's 0-10 heal both go up to like 3-5 and 0-12 on the first rank up. (Because a small percentage of a bigger range is more noticeable than the same percentage of a tiny range) Now some of them may not upgrade at all, its possible the 1-1 heal just upgrades the buff and stays 1-1 forever, or even the party heal maaaay stay the same (I doubt it though) but the single target heals at least absolutely go up as you upgrade them.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:16
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Zaphod42 posted:Yeah but I was using it every round and having it hit 3-4 party members each time and it still didn't feel like much Yeah I just thought it would progress something like 1-2 -> 2-2 -> 2-3 or something similar.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:17
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That's why blanket % increases are really bad and lazy design. If you're only going to have 5 level ups per skill, hand-craft them so they feel like (and are) upgrades. Making a player spend heirlooms to upgrade their trainer, then spend gold to upgrade their skills only for the upgrade to have no effect? That's lovely.
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Feb 1, 2015 22:53
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MotU posted:Yeah I just thought it would progress something like 1-2 -> 2-2 -> 2-3 or something similar. Good news! That's how it works now.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:02
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DatonKallandor posted:That's why blanket % increases are really bad and lazy design. If you're only going to have 5 level ups per skill, hand-craft them so they feel like (and are) upgrades. Making a player spend heirlooms to upgrade their trainer, then spend gold to upgrade their skills only for the upgrade to have no effect? That's lovely. Yeah it doesn't really matter if a level 5 aoe heal does 8-12 at rank 5 if the rest of the game is scaled around that. The good heirlooms are the ones that give you flat dodge bonuses but some of the resist ones are decent too (because those percentages are flat). I would also like to see stuff like the +20% damage shrines do other things instead, like a smite bonus vs undead that always does +5 damage.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:12
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The devs have an official forum with area for feedback so we should repost ideas and suggestions there too. I dunno how much they read it or take feedback to heart but it's worth a shot. One thing I've been annoyed with is the length of some turns. Some times an enemy does something, one of your dudes says something and someone else replies then you wait another few seconds before you actually get control. It feels a bit slow and breaks up the flow so hopefully they can change it.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:35
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Demiurge4 posted:Yeah it doesn't really matter if a level 5 aoe heal does 8-12 at rank 5 if the rest of the game is scaled around that. The good heirlooms are the ones that give you flat dodge bonuses but some of the resist ones are decent too (because those percentages are flat). I would also like to see stuff like the +20% damage shrines do other things instead, like a smite bonus vs undead that always does +5 damage. Nothing scales except pure mathematical constructs. Enough things are intertwined within a working RPG system that they don't scale well at all. If you've ever noticed often MMOs have to change combat formulas after they increase level caps, that happens because they tried to scale the system past where it can go. One of the really important design considerations of Darkest Dungeon is that every decent heal averages to a mid-strength attack of equal level enemies (or weaker). If your group heal scaled to 32-48 points across the party then the average damage of a monster would one-shot a new character. The mechanics of the game would be mostly preserved, but the tone would change drastically if your heroes improved that much. And if heals got stronger than an average attack? Well, I've played a game that changed like that. High level content in that game is a boring slog without any of the charm or interest of the early game. All RPGs are fundamentally puzzles; you need to pick the right action to let your bigger numbers beat the enemy. If you can reset your party in the dungeon, the puzzle changes from being about the dungeon to being about individual fights. And there's fewer clever things that a developer can do when you're balancing a single fight instead of an entire dungeon. DatonKallandor posted:That's why blanket % increases are really bad and lazy design. If you're only going to have 5 level ups per skill, hand-craft them so they feel like (and are) upgrades. Making a player spend heirlooms to upgrade their trainer, then spend gold to upgrade their skills only for the upgrade to have no effect? That's lovely. Absolutely agree with your broad point. As of at least last night the iconic healing upgrades are hand-crafted, but not always so they feel like upgrades. The Vestal's party heal goes from 6 average damage to 8. Still poo poo, still better than every other heal, and it will always be insufficient for healing centric strategies imported from other RPGs that are used to a party heal being a big get-my-rear end-out-of-danger-because-I-ate-a-surprise-round button. Hell, it even improves more than other heals. The Occultist's goes from 5 average (less if you bleed) to 6 average, and the other Vestal heal from 4 average to 5. It still feels weak because your gut is recognizing something your mind isn't. Healing is often a poor use of a turn.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:39
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yeah honestly i don't see myself using the vestal's heals unless i've got people on death's door, and in that case 1 hp is probably not going to be functionally different from 3
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Feb 1, 2015 23:40
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Tagichatn posted:The devs have an official forum with area for feedback so we should repost ideas and suggestions there too. I dunno how much they read it or take feedback to heart but it's worth a shot. One thing I've been annoyed with is the length of some turns. Some times an enemy does something, one of your dudes says something and someone else replies then you wait another few seconds before you actually get control. It feels a bit slow and breaks up the flow so hopefully they can change it. There seems to be a delay after a character says something before anything else can happen, and it gets pretty annoying when you get a bunch of people talking in a single turn like that. It would be nice if the "bark delay" option went into negatives so you could opt to make it shorter as well as longer.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:44
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Tollymain posted:yeah honestly i don't see myself using the vestal's heals unless i've got people on death's door, and in that case 1 hp is probably not going to be functionally different from 3 The philosophy for those kind of heals is that you mitigate the damage over the course of the dungeon. Yes a 1-2 heal isn't going to do much right now, but if you use it every round you vastly increase the longevity of your party over the course of the whole dungeon, same way with the jester's stress reduction. The best vestal build right now is both heals, the stun and her smite attack because she adds so much over the course of the dungeon and can also stun certain enemies which gives control.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:44
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What are the controls like? Is it just point and click, or is the keyboard required? Wondering if I can play this on my Windows tablet
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Feb 1, 2015 23:51
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Valicious posted:What are the controls like? Is it just point and click, or is the keyboard required? Wondering if I can play this on my Windows tablet Either/or. You can play with mouse and keyboard or you can play with just mouse. Everything is turn-based so you should be fine on a tablet. I think pure mouse controls are actually more comfortable. I actually really like that about it after playing lots of 'active time' RPGs lately. The game is stressful enough as is, it doesn't need to rush you. I'm not sure if it has controller support, but presumably its going on PS4 at some point in the future.
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Feb 1, 2015 23:57
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I wrote up a basic Getting Started guide and threw it up on Steam, incorporating a lot of the stuff people have posted in the thread so far. http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=385431020
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Feb 2, 2015 00:00
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TheBlandName posted:Absolutely agree with your broad point. As of at least last night the iconic healing upgrades are hand-crafted, but not always so they feel like upgrades. The Vestal's party heal goes from 6 average damage to 8. Still poo poo, still better than every other heal, and it will always be insufficient for healing centric strategies imported from other RPGs that are used to a party heal being a big get-my-rear end-out-of-danger-because-I-ate-a-surprise-round button. Hell, it even improves more than other heals. The Occultist's goes from 5 average (less if you bleed) to 6 average, and the other Vestal heal from 4 average to 5. It still feels weak because your gut is recognizing something your mind isn't. Healing is often a poor use of a turn. Oh yeah I never thought the party heal should be significant in terms of "how much does it heal", just in terms of "am I getting anything out of upgrading this"? The fact that damage generally outpaces heals is one of the things that makes the game so tense (in a good way). Some other non-healing skills also suffer from this - being able to get debuff percentages above 100% would be really nice so upgrading your 100% stun ability still gets you something more than 5% accuracy. DatonKallandor fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 00:32
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First of all, I went to the Warren and it's pretty disturbing. Those poor Porcine Wretches, I almost feel sorry for them. In my latest Warren run I managed to get almost no stress. I had a Crusader, Tomb Robber, Jester and I think an Highwayman; I am still not sure how I did it.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:17
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I'm really loving the Leper, a class I never gave much thought to until I started using them. They can absorb and dish out some major damage. They're great for a party with a Jester in the back, take a couple turns to buff them up while the rest of the party crowd controls and whittles the enemy down with AoE, then step in and clean house.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:28
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Leper is a beast. After favoring Crusader for awhile, losing my main one forced me to try Leper + Hellion for my melee and I love it. Hits like a truck. Just downloaded a 15MB patch. The devs are super active this weekend.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:39
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Cross post from Steam thread, but doing it anyway.  For anyone interested in Darkest Dungeon, the twitch team Main Menu is streaming it now. For 100 hours, at least one of the casters will be streaming. They're also doing giveaways, and I just won a copy with instant beta access in HJTenchi's channel. List of Main Menu team members: http://www.twitch.tv/team/mainmenu Nathyrra fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 01:49
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Zaphod42 posted:Leper is a beast. After favoring Crusader for awhile, losing my main one forced me to try Leper + Hellion for my melee and I love it. Hits like a truck. I want to like the Leper, but it can only attack in the front and has no movement abilities. Any time I get surprised he's almost useless.
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Feb 2, 2015 01:52
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Nathyrra posted:Cross post from Steam thread, but doing it anyway. CobaltStreak is literally Hitler. What the hell does he even say when he does his dumb catch phrase?
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Feb 2, 2015 01:56
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Demiurge4 posted:CobaltStreak is literally Hitler. What the hell does he even say when he does his dumb catch phrase? Drop the Lokor! It's his channels mascot, a mix of Loki from The Binding of Isaac, and Falkor from Neverending Story. I wouldn't watch him for this, but for Isaac play, he is one of the best. His thing is he does streak runs, starting a new save when he dies. And considering it's a rogue like, and he usually has a good number of wins, it's pretty impressive. Nathyrra fucked around with this message at 02:04 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 02:02
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Pavlov posted:I want to like the Leper, but it can only attack in the front and has no movement abilities. Any time I get surprised he's almost useless. That's true, there's some times I get surprised and he's in the back row and its like fuuuuuuuck. Order is super important so getting your order scrambled sucks. I feel like the "move" ability should let you swap with any position, not only move 1. Having to swap your dudes around 1 by 1 by 1 takes forever and gets you killed. Some classes have movement abilities, yeah, but either all of them should or the basic move command should be a little better.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:05
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The Crusader's Holy Lance seems really good for that. Has anyone tried running two of them, so they can both use their Holy Lances continuously?
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Feb 2, 2015 02:09
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Poison Mushroom posted:The Crusader's Holy Lance seems really good for that. Has anyone tried running two of them, so they can both use their Holy Lances continuously? yes and it owns
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Feb 2, 2015 02:09
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Poison Mushroom posted:The Crusader's Holy Lance seems really good for that. Has anyone tried running two of them, so they can both use their Holy Lances continuously? Yeah, its really good for killing archers who hang out in the back row.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:10
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I'll just leave this here. 
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Feb 2, 2015 02:11
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Poison Mushroom posted:The Crusader's Holy Lance seems really good for that. Has anyone tried running two of them, so they can both use their Holy Lances continuously? Solomonic posted:yes and it owns I used two against the Necromancer Apprentice and once he was in the back row he was just getting clowned. So far my most effective team--not most exciting but the best at long term sustained engagements--seems to be a Vestal in the very back followed by a bounty hunter and a Hellion in the very front, with the last slot being open for something else, probably a crusader or another bounty hunter. All of them can stun reliably, and if they can lock a whole squad of baddies down they can spam heals without having ot worry about losing the game of attrition. marshmallow creep fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Feb 2, 2015 |
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Feb 2, 2015 02:17
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Demiurge4 posted:I'll just leave this here. What is this beautiful thing
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Feb 2, 2015 02:19
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AnonSpore posted:What is this beautiful thing Swinetaur of course
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Feb 2, 2015 02:21
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AnonSpore posted:What is this beautiful thing This is what will almost certainly happen at some point when you go into the Warrens, unfortunately 
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Feb 2, 2015 02:22
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Is there a way to tell the turn order in advance when a fight starts? Because that'd be really helpful, and I may be an idiot who missed it.
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Feb 2, 2015 02:23
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Mo_Steel posted:Is there a way to tell the turn order in advance when a fight starts? Because that'd be really helpful, and I may be an idiot who missed it. No and that is definetely a feature that I'd want in this, especially since turn order is different every round
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Feb 2, 2015 02:25
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