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People have theorized that the game only makes a single roll for every attack, and that value is applied to every unit hit by it. The dodge values on individual units usually aren't big enough that their dodge value alone lets them avoid an attack that would hit another. So most attacks either hit everything or whiff completely. Personally I don't like this and think the game should make a roll for each unit hit by an attack rather than lumping them all together. If someone gets a crit with a multi hit attack its devastating. The amount of damage and stress an enemy can do to your group with one is absurd. At the same time, a lucky Hellion can melt entire formations with one breakthrough.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:43
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paranoid randroid posted:Speaking of which, how are we to assume these adventurers are getting compensated? Sure the klepto ones will steal poo poo... usually, like, torches or busts or something. And really what are they planning on doing with those? is there a guy in town who can fence busts? You get glory and fame if you survive, which is what they're all after. Though I'm pretty sure none of these guys know what they are getting into when they sign up and once they get here its like welp, you signed the contract so you ain't going anywhere unless I say you can. I mean, you can try to leave if you REALLY want too. Have fun going back through the forest. With no supplies. Alone. 
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Feb 8, 2015 21:03
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 The human mind; fragile, like a robin's egg.
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Feb 8, 2015 21:29
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TheBlandName posted:Did... did you send him in with three rookies? Or did you lose most of a great party? Either way, that screenshot is golden. Sent him in with 3 rookies because I wanted to see if he could solo a level 5 dungeon. He'd pretty much been invincible before now so I wanted to see how far I could push it. Turns out crits and traps ignore protection, so his huge health bar was depleted fast. If I played really scummy and brought tons of supplies I could probably manage it but I didn't feel like bothering. The camp scene made it worth the trip though. Fun fact; if you try to bring rookies into a high level dungeon they will complain about you sending them on a suicide mission and start stressed out.
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Feb 8, 2015 22:00
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Is it ok if I repost that SS? It needs to be shared. Ha go right ahead. vandalism posted:I had an idea for another mechanic: pressure. I could see this working in a different game but I'm not sure how it would work here. Most enemies only have enough HP to survive two hits, so how would pressure ever have a chance to become relevant? Even if pressure mounted quickly, most of the things you describe already happen as debuff or status effects. So pressure raising attacks would just be inferior versions of those due to their randomness. Plus there's also the whole problem of most enemies being horrible abominations of nature that probably don't understand the concept of stress in the first place.
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Feb 8, 2015 23:03
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I'm really not a fan of the way the quirk system works. I love random traits/skills that develop for characters in games like this but I think this game does it rather poorly. Most traits simply aren't very significant, whether they be good or bad. Most of the time I ended up ignoring them because they very, very rarely make a character play differently from other members of the same class. The most noticeable ones are traits that force your character to interact with certain objects. Those are cool for flavor but don't do anything in combat, which is where I'd really like to see a bigger impact from quirks. There's also the problem that quirks have no permanence. You can purge away bad quirks easily and even if you get a set of quirks that actually combine to have a noticeable effect, they will eventually be replaced by new ones. Quirks seems like they are supposed to give characters individuality, but due to the way they work they become mostly irrelevant and fail to do so. I'd much rather quriks be a thing you can't change, at least not without significant investment. Also get rid of the idea of good/negative quirks and have them all carry benefits and downsides, so you are less inclined to just purge them all away. The sanitarium would still serve a purpose of removing debilitating diseases.
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Feb 9, 2015 00:07
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Night10194 posted:There's nothing abusive about pulling random teams of murderhobos off the wagon and sending them into a meatgrinder with no pay beyond what's necessary to keep them together enough to keep fighting by tossing them booze and prayer. Hey, they knew exactly what they were getting into when they read the job description. I said it was "dangerous". Its their own fault for thinking dangerous didn't include being infected by maggots, mauled by fungus zombies, and then eaten by a witch.
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Feb 9, 2015 07:00
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If you try to make someone do an activity their quriks won't let them take part in you get special complaints from them. "I want nothing to do with that house of 'worship'."
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Feb 9, 2015 22:51
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Night10194 posted:I really love the Resting scenes. Not just for being a good implementation of a resting and recovering mechanic, but I like watching my poor dumb bastards interact, like the Hellion cheering up an ally by challenging them to a wrestling contest or the Highwayman grudgingly admitting he's glad to have everyone else around. This game just excels at tone. I really like that the characters all have unique lines for pep talks. Some of them are pretty odd though. The Graverobber consoles people by calling them well-proportioned  poptart_fairy posted:I totally missed the plague doctor was a woman. Its pretty hard to tell from her model alone since she is fully covered, as you would expect. I wasn't sure if it was a dude or a lady at first too.
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Feb 10, 2015 03:44
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The Occultists heal just gets worse the further into the game you get. Even ignoring the bleed part, a healing skill having such huge RNG swing is really bad. It can potentially heal huge amounts but you can easily get stretches of bad rolls where next to nothing is healed. And as others have mentioned, healing someone for 0 is a nightmare when they are in death's door. You can still rely on the Occultist to be a healer but you have to realize you're taking a gamble by doing so later on. Fortunately, the Occultist is a cool dude that brings a lot of neat skills to the table even ignoring his heal. I'd like his heal to be improved a bit but even if it isn't I'm still gonna use him.
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Feb 10, 2015 05:01
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Medicinal herbs are a must buy if you are going into the weald or warrens. You almost always run across something you can turn into a huge pile of food. I always provision with enough food just to be on the safe side, but even then the extra food still helps as extra healing. I really don't like the way hunger works, making it something completely random is just stupid. I don't care if hallways aren't a perfect representation of actual distance traveled or whatever. My guys should not be starving when I just had them stuff their faces at camp a moment ago. Also the narrator gets REALLY insulting when your guys starve which just makes me more mad  VVV Cute, relying on the Plague Doctor to do her job. That's a great way to get even more pissed with the RNG. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 09:13 on Feb 10, 2015 |
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Feb 10, 2015 09:06
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Obviously they should make it a gameplay feature. For the cost of some stress you can eliminate all dialogue from a character. By cutting out their tongue.
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Feb 10, 2015 09:44
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Lotish posted:Like, you lose a leper, and you can take his mask home as a trinket that has qualities based on the quirks of the leper? That would be neat. "Welcome to the crew! Here, have this free mask. No, don't ask where it came from. That isn't blood on it. Look, you signed up for this, you're obligated to do whatever I tell you." This game asks how far you're willing to go to save your favorite hero but it should really ask how far the player will go to abuse their heroes for minor benefits.
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Feb 10, 2015 22:40
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Dackel posted:The endgame dungeon "Darkest Dungeon" has a gimmick: Any Character you take there (if they survive) will NEVER EVER EVER go back there again, because of the horrible horrible things they've seen. Seems like if they want to keep this gimmick they should at least add some really expensive sanitarium option to remove their fear of the Darkest Dungeon.
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Feb 11, 2015 00:05
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A lot of the trinkets are hot garbage that aren't worth using at all. Get used to ignoring most of them until you happen to find one of the rare ones that isn't terrible.
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Feb 11, 2015 08:43
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The thing is, what would adding a loss condition to this game entail? Would it really be something that a player that understands the game is gonna struggle with, or is it just gonna be another hurdle for new players to jump over in understanding the game?
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Feb 11, 2015 17:10
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Rascyc posted:Man the Bounty Hunter is pretty cool. I never used him before because I thought his kit looked like it was trying to do too much and I don't care much for the "mark" system, but a 100% damage modifier on hitting marked targets is pretty loving solid. I don't even pull things with him although it is handy maybe once a dungeon for where I am at. I just obliterate things that the Occultist marks up. Too bad I can't get the Occultist to go first in my turn order ever. Occultist gets a camp skill that raises his SPD stat by 5 which can help a lot with this.
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Feb 11, 2015 18:52
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MacheteZombie posted:Bye bye StunLock.  There goes my entire early game strategy 
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Feb 11, 2015 19:27
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Patch mostly sounds good but;quote:Gargoyles: increased dodge, reduced dmg, increased crit. Focus up your Accuracy to hit these beasts! Whyyyyyy. These fuckers were already super annoying and now they're gonna be even worse.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:38
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Broken Cog posted:Eh, they were pretty harmless before. Oh yeah they weren't deadly at all but I hated seeing them because it felt like they dodged everything so any battle involving them had a ton of wasted turns. Now they're gonna be even worse in that regard.
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Feb 11, 2015 20:46
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Wilbur is a little poo poo and I'm always tempted to kill him first even though I know that's a terrible idea.
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Feb 11, 2015 21:10
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Lotish posted:Something I just noticed about Battlefield Medicine: It does heal, but I've upgraded it to rank 4 (which says it heals 2-3 points) and it sometimes only heals 1. That's nice but its still gonna annoy the crap out of me that it will fail to remove a status when you really need it to. At least the Plague Doc isn't stricly awful now.
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Feb 12, 2015 01:56
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Do you always get a Plague Doc and Vestal in the first week?
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Feb 12, 2015 03:05
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I honestly don't get why so many people say they need to scum with teams of sacrificial recruits to make money. I never had to do that and wouldn't because it sounds boring as hell. The only situation in which you'd need to do that is if you made bad spending decisions. If you don't spend your gold loosely and keep a small bank to fall back on, you'll never have to scum for loot even if you fail several missions. The game gives you a VERY generous amount of starting gold. If you decide to throw it all away on upgrades, so be it, but there's nothing forcing you to do that. I mean I made that same mistake on my first run, but I don't think its the games fault. vandalism posted:Is plague doctor worth taking now? I'd say yes, especially early on. That blight damage is actually really strong even from level 1. Their backline stun is also even better now. EDIT: And really if you're new, don't feel bad if your first attempt at this game goes poorly. Its got a step learning curve but becomes way easier once you figure out all the mechanics and what enemies are capable of. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Feb 12, 2015 |
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Feb 12, 2015 03:58
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ITS PEOPLE! BONE COURTIER WINE IS PEOPLE!!!  Those guys used to be my most hated enemy until I ran into the pigs in the warrens, which basically do the same thing as them only with a chance to give you horrible diseases as well.
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Feb 12, 2015 05:47
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Even against the tankiest enemies I don't think I've had combat go over 6 rounds. ...now against loving dogs and gargoyles I know I've gotten up to 10 at least 
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Feb 12, 2015 07:56
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enraged_camel posted:Also, it would be pretty cool, in a masochistic way, if traps did more than damage/stress. I'm thinking stuff like debuffs, starting the next combat stunned, snuffing out your torches, things like that. I think traps are bad enough already. Later in the game they take huge chunks of HP. Genocyber posted:eh, not really. They're so weak you can easily kill them in one or two hits, and if they happen to spawn a giant slime you just run away and try the fight from the start again. They need to add a stress penalty to fleeing battle so people stop using it to exploit stuff like this and surprise attacks.
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Feb 12, 2015 21:10
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Eh, I think the retreat mechanic as it is makes sense with surprise attacks. If your team can execute an orderly retreat and regroup that's not exploiting, that's just good tactics. It's also not ALWAYS a good idea, depending on your team, how mixed up you get, who goes first, etc. Well is there any downside to just retreating? I've never tried it but from what I understand as soon as its your turn, you can just flee from the battle with no penalty. If there's no penalty there's no reason to ever endure a surprise attack. Genocyber posted:It's super easy to reduce stress through crits tho. Not really? If you're already at low stress then critting a lot will help, but if you get some bad rolls or someone is at high stress then crits alone aren't gonna save you. Plus for every crit you get the enemy might get crits as well.
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Feb 12, 2015 21:53
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I think the stress reducing battle abilities are pretty weird and should just be removed. They don't really encourage any kind of interesting or tactical play. They're better now that you can't stall without racking up stress though.
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Feb 12, 2015 22:20
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I think if low light runs actually end up being easier due to the number of crits you get they need to rebalance that aspect of the game.
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Feb 12, 2015 23:24
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InequalityGodzilla posted:Doesn't that kind of not make sense though? If you're trying to slip away from angry monsters wouldn't it be better not to be carrying around a bright torch? I'd say the opposite would be better, lower light equals higher escape chance and vice versa. Pretty sure the monsters are adapted to complete darkness so light actually confuses them. At least that's the impression I get from a radiant torch being more likely to result in surprised monster encounters. ...okay that doesn't really make sense when bandits show up but for EVERYTHING ELSE it does 
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Feb 13, 2015 02:59
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I just had a guy pick up the "love Interest" qurik from the Warrens. What the hell is he thinking about when he sees those pigs? 
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Feb 13, 2015 20:34
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Fhqwhgads posted:Week 3: Develops "Love Interest" I actually had this exact thing happen to a bounty hunter. Went to the brothel and got love interest, then the next week he got deviant tastes. I can only assume he was spending every night outside the tavern shouting horrible poetry to his lover before I sent him to the sanitarium for brain wiping. VVV No the Plague Doc was pretty poo poo at that since her cure failed all the goddamn time Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 21:29 on Feb 13, 2015 |
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Feb 13, 2015 21:26
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I'm still not really feeling the Plague Doc. I mean she is definitely better, but I still feel like she's stuck in the middle ground of not being as good with damage as others and not having good healing either. What really frustrates me is her abilities seem really weird in regards to what positions they can target. She is very rigid when it comes to positioning and there's no way to work around that with her. However, I'm willing to bet she is very useful in level 3-5 dungeons because that's where bleed and blight damage really started to bog me down.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:13
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Failure states are a weird thing in games like this because quite often they are something that only punishes new players that are already struggling with the game and doesn't make it any harder for players that know what they are doing. I don't see how adding a failure state would really improve this game unless it changed drastically. Right now a failure state would only work for discouraging scummy behavior involving suicide runs, but suicide runs aren't something you'll be doing if you're playing correctly anyways. It just punishes someone that is already failing at the game, rather than making things harder for people that know what they are doing. I'd like this game to be harder* later on, but a failure state would add absolutely nothing in that regard while punishing all the people that are struggling to get themselves into the game still. *I haven't played the level 5 dungeons since the difficulty patch so maybe those are brutal now VVV Crests are the cheapest heirloom currency and thus required in large quantities. Check the upgrade values; the heirlooms are not all considered equal. As for the gypsy, she's something that becomes more useful later on when you don't need to spend gold upgrading guys. There ARE good trinkets, there's just a sea of poo poo ones as well.
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Feb 13, 2015 22:46
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how me a frog posted:Well if you guys don't want fail state give it an iron man mode and another mode where you play with multiple manual saves because this is essentially what we've got at the moment. The "there is only one save file" thing means jack poo poo without a fail state. The fact that you can't save and reload means you are forced to deal with mistakes. It doesn't matter if there is a fail state, you still have to deal with your mistakes rather than just save scumming every time the RNG doesn't go your way. how me a frog posted:Let me break it down for you, a turn based rpg is nothing but a static puzzle with some degree of obfuscation going on, except it's easier to solve because you don't have to come up with the correct solution, just one that works reliably. This is very easy for Darkest Dungeons, in its current state because there are easily identfyable good and bad classes and skills. Okay, but how does adding a fail state solve that problem? I agree that this game has balance issues but adding a fail state doesn't actually solve any of the ones I've encountered. I'm not scumming the game by firing and hiring soldiers on a regular basis either.
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Feb 14, 2015 02:23
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how me a frog posted:Except you're NOT, because witout a timer or mandatory escalation of difficulty in any form (you always have access to baby missions, you can even bring lvl 2 duddes to level your new baby and people are crying about not being able to bring lvl 3 and above people) there is nothing stopping you from from replacing your cool lvl 5 hellion with another one you grind up. This process is trivial. First, replacing a level 5 hero isn't trivial. Its possible, but definitely not a fast process. I beat all of the tier 3 bosses and had a grand total of two heroes reach level 5 by the end, and I didn't lose many either. The experience gain really slows down once you reach level 3 but it doesn't really matter since by that point you have all the strength you'll need on that hero. Second, I imagine they're trying to make you care about your heroes and not want them to get killed. So that when you lose a high level hero, even though you can replace them, it feels like a major gently caress up on your part. Not being able to save scum means you can't just undo that loss either, you have to live with it. Now right now, the quirk system doesn't really do enough to differentiate heroes. If they made quirks more unique and significant, you'd probably care more about a developed soldier. You're not supposed to think "gently caress I needed that lvl 5 Hellion to beat the game", you should think "dammit no I didn't want to lose Lucy!". At least I think that's what they are going for. Regardless, what game is there where the failure state stays relevant the entire time? Serious question. In the original Xcom soldiers can die by the droves and it won't matter. In Xcom:EU, the fail state becomes basically irrelevant after the first two months because you'll have the global situation under control. Losing soldiers at that point sucks but isn't game ending by any stretch of the imagination. I can't think of a fail state for this game that would actually matter.
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Feb 14, 2015 02:33
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how me a frog posted:I'll admit it takes a lot of time. I will stick by my guns it is trivial though. My graveyard has 3 people in it and those are all lvl 0 chumps who died when I was getting my grips. If you somewhow manage to get a high level hero killed in the first place there is something fundamentally wrong with your decision making process cause you can just throw in the towel at the cost of about 5k gold which at this stage of the game is pathetic pocket change. Even if you somehow don't have that amount of money, just send 4 lvl 0 scrubs off with no supplies and you got it, send your good dudes to the brothel or wherever and cheese another "mission" with off the wagon gimps to pass the time. Cause those are free so hey, free money free time mo powah to ya. I guess if you're going to exploit a flaw in the system and play like a scummy sperg then yeah, that part of the game is broken. It seemed obvious to me though its that way to let struggling players stay in the game, not let successful players abuse the system to keep things absolutely perfect. That's probably going to change but unlike you I don't think adding a failure state to punish new players is the way to do it. Just keep people from firing heroes cost free later on when you obviously don't need too anymore.
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Feb 14, 2015 02:57
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how me a frog posted:Sorry, if a game gives you a gun that does 10 damage, and another that does 100, using the latter does not make you a scummy sperg, it is just an indication that you are possibly not braindead. "oh but you're not playing it in the way where it would be challenging, the game is not piss easy nobody is forcing you to use the 100 damage gun you could use the 10 damage one if you want a challenge" is the weakest defense for poor design I have ever come across. You're an idiot if you can't tell the difference between using a more powerful weapon and exploiting system the developers obviously didn't intend. Here's a hint; one is supposed to be strong, the other is design oversight. Its not an excuse for it existing but your proposed solution is poo poo. The answer isn't to punish new players, its to keep people like you who can't help but exploit everything from doing so. Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 03:09 on Feb 14, 2015 |
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Feb 14, 2015 03:06
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how me a frog posted:I'm an idiot for "exploiting" such a massive "design oversite" but the genius developers are to be excused for having it in place. Yeah makes perfect sense thanks. Internet Kraken posted:Its not an excuse for it existing but your proposed solution is poo poo. And no, you're an idiot for acting like this is an intended game mechanic and not an obvious design oversight. Obviously they don't intend for you to be able to freely skip time because that negates the entire point of stress relieving actions costing time in the first place. They made hiring more heroes free because it lets new players stay in the game rather than getting crushed and fed up with it. They didn't intend for you to abuse that so you could always use your A team and negate the entire point of activities costing time. It does need to be changed, but as I've said several times now, adding a failure state probably won't do much more than inconvenience experienced players while hindering new ones. If you actually had a good idea I wouldn't be giving you grief but all you've done is say "give it a failure state!" without explaining how that would work.
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Feb 14, 2015 03:15
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