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Love this game*. I bought the Director's Cut version on PC back when it first came out; it's still sitting there on my shelf, with its three-CD install. I played it a few times back then (so, around 2003/2004?), but not really since. The main feeling/half-arse-theory I remember getting from it was that it was like a nightmare. I mean an actual nightmare, not just "bad poo poo happens lol". Dream logic, anxiety, guilt, symbolism, etc. I'd think about it a lot at different times over the years though, and there's obviously been a lot written about it, other LPs, and all that - so a lot more of it became clearer over time. I'm still learning things in this LP/thread, though; I'd never heard or thought about Mary's body being in the car/boat before. Really pumped for this LP.  *Except for the voice-acting.
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Feb 7, 2015 05:44
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Waffleman_ posted:Poor Tomm Hulett hasn't worked on the series for years and still sometimes gets nasty messages. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 06:29 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 06:26
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Accordion Man posted:It's even more sad because Tomm was like one of the few people who actually gave a poo poo about the series for the longest time. He had to really reign in Double Helix because their original ideas for Homecoming were even worse than we what we got for example. I love that peeps don't blame Devin Shatsky, the guy that had veto power over everything Tomm did. They don't even hate on Konami as much as Tomm, and they're the ones that provide the (insufficient) budget, assign the project to whatever lovely developer they feel like, and then not give them enough time to complete the project! v  v Tomm became an easy target because, unlike Konami and Shatsky, Tomm is accessible. He has a blog and a twitter and goes on forums, so you can actually talk to him. It's easier to blame someone for something if they feel less detached and far away than other, more likely scapegoats.
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Feb 7, 2015 06:44
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I've got to imagine that double helix only exist(ed) because they worked like contractors and would price themselves out WAY lower than other studios for the same games. I'm still salty about FME.
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Feb 7, 2015 06:49
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VoidBurger posted:Though I will forever be disappointed that we didn't get the epic Pokemon-style showdown between water (Joshua) and fire (Alessa) that Double Helix wanted to do, cause Tomm was like "What the gently caress guys??" That hilarious battle would have been icing on the b-movie cake for me and would have made me love the poo poo out of Homecoming's absurdity even more. Oh my God what? That was going to be a thing? Also, as for this game, I played it a bit after it came out when I was around...13, I want to say? A pretty fun romp through a horrible foggy hellscape, though the most horrifying aspects about it had to have been the controls and the voice acting. I do love this game, but I usually avoid talking about it since most people get so loving serious about it all. I quite like the thread so far, so hopefully we can all remain civil.
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Feb 7, 2015 09:03
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My greatest regret in my Silent Hill experience is that my first one was Silent Hill 3. Not only did I play the (arguably) best one, there was so much poo poo that went over my head that would've had some hella gravitas or at least would've made sense if I was even slightly familiar with the previous ones.
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Feb 7, 2015 09:43
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Yeah, I imagine the deal halfway through with Harry wouldn't be nearly as much of a sucker punch if you hadn't already spent an entire game running through Hell with that goofy shmuck.
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Feb 7, 2015 09:58
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Arcade Rabbit posted:Oh my God what? That was going to be a thing? 100Dachshunds posted:Another note: I live in Maine, and we do indeed have mile signs for Boston on our major freeway. So I guess it *kind of* makes sense for Brahms to have a marker, but only if Brahms is a major city on the same scale as Boston. Karnith fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 13:15
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 Having seen this sign outside Wilmington, North Carolina I'm willing to believe that silent hill can have it's 200 mile sign. There is even a matching sign at the end of the 2500 miles as it turns out, too. 
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Feb 7, 2015 14:23
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Demonbait posted:
That basically looks to just be the length of Interstate 40 with one end in Wilmington and the other in Barstow. I was trying to see if I could find if other highways did something similar, putting signs up basically denoting the length of the interstate but I can't find any others.
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Feb 7, 2015 14:51
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The bad voice acting in this game is one of those things that grew on me, so the re-recorded stuff in the HD releases struck me as weird and bad in the end.
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Feb 7, 2015 17:32
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These wacky highway signs are blowing my mind. Toledo 48 Mars 33,900,000 Anoia posted:The bad voice acting in this game is one of those things that grew on me, so the re-recorded stuff in the HD releases struck me as weird and bad in the end. James: Troy Baker is a really bad James. Not that Guy Cihi is a good actor in any way, but I think his somber, weak voice really fit James' character. Having Troy come in with his melted milk chocolate baritone voice is extremely jarring. Troy's voice is strong and dramatic, which doesn't fit James' whole schtick of "I'm falling apart inside, I've never been so confused and disturbed and depressed in my entire life." James is emasculated, scared, weak, wretched, and none of that makes sense with a strong manly voice like Troy's. Mary/Maria: Mary Elizabeth McGlynn is a great VA who was also miscast (by herself, I think? If I'm not mistaken, she was partially in charge of the VO work.) She's a great Maria, but a terrible Mary. Her voice is too sultry/strong to play the sick, weak, sweet Mary. I actually didn't know that Mary and Maria were originally played by the same woman (Monica Taylor Horgan) until I'd played it many times through. Eddie: Whoever played Eddie in the HD Collection just sounded like he was constantly straining and it was bizarre. Like, constipated or something. Laura: And Laura was awful because it was some adult woman putting on a little girl voice and that almost ALWAYS sounds like poo poo to me. Laura was played by a real little girl in the original, and she was a terrible actress too, but I'll take a bad child actor over a good adult actor putting on a babyvoice a lot of the time. Angela: The only person I thought was a VO improvement in the HD version was Angela, who I always thought sounded too old for her age (19), and had a lot of inflections with certain lines which accidentally made the lines almost funny when they definitely shouldn't have been ("You said yer wife Mary was dead... RIGHT?") The newer VO sounded age-appropriate and had a lot of range for all of Angela's mood swings. She really sounded broken, and I thought she was a great casting decision.
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Feb 7, 2015 17:45
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Eh, with all the crap that Angela had to deal with in her life, I figured it was appropriate that she look and sound older than her 19 years of age would lead one to believe. Also, she was voiced by Donna Burke, who I have no reason to be upset with these days, so I'll give it a pass. I know that this has been said a lot, but the voice acting in the original version gives off a sense of being in some sort of dream. Which you have to admit seems very appropriate for this game.
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Feb 7, 2015 18:23
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VoidBurger posted:Angela: It definitely wasn't intentional, but I always liked that old Angela sounds too old. It was like she was aged beyond her years by what she went through. I think that even though she lack the range to convey some of Angela's more extreme emotions her voice helped contrast with the juvenile vocal tics Angela has and made them stand out as odd. New Angela is definitely a way better actor overall, though; she probably turns in the best performance of anyone in either voice track, next to original Mary/Maria. I guess it's just a small thing about the character that I liked that was lost in the translation, but it could just be a fondness for the old acting. That said the bigger crime is that they somehow couldn't make Theme of Laura (reprise) loop properly in the burning staircase scene which is baffling.
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Feb 7, 2015 18:26
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VoidBurger posted:
I second that. It's sort of The Hamlet Effect: when a good actor comes off a little too strong and magnetic to convincingly play a hopeless wreck of a person.
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Feb 7, 2015 18:40
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You get 200+ mile signs in the Northwest quite a bit. Makes a bit less sense in the northeast, where 200+ miles means crossing like three states.
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Feb 7, 2015 19:00
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Karnith posted:That was indeed going to be a thing, along with a bunch of other silliness. Homecoming was even supposed to be the first part of an epic (well, "epic") trilogy. Tomm Hulett has talked about it, for example, here on Silent Hill Historical Society's Voices in the Static podcast, starting five minutes in. I was just about to post a link to my Tomm interview podcast! I always find it so amazing that people I don't know really have listened to it. Makes my day
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Feb 7, 2015 19:57
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VoidBurger posted:I'm considering it? I'm not really sure because honestly, I don't understand a lot of the harder difficulty puzzles, myself. I feel like all I'd be doing is research and regurgitating solutions I don't entirely understand, haha. Really, you can just look up the solutions easier than I can sum up the solutions and make a coherent video out of them. I recommend you aim for getting the 'In Water' ending first and then showing off all the others. The 'In Water' ending is largely believed to be the 'canon' ending of this game. Also: I'm here to post the best Silent Hill 2 Fan Video ever made, and I'm posting it here because it has spoilers enjoy!
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Feb 7, 2015 20:06
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If people really want it though, I can make a bonus video about each puzzle.
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I think Leave is the best ending because while its the most positive its still really bittersweet and fits the game's melancholy tone while sticking with the game's theme of Silent Hill being a place of either redemption or damnation depending on what a person wants.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 22:00 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 21:02
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Is that really a unified theme across all the silent hill games? People say it a lot but I personally wouldn't be able to say if it's presented the same way across all of them or if it's just a selective reading of the overall concept of the place. Like SH1 was demonic hellscape based on alessa's torment, but SH2 doesn't have the same driving energy behind it so are the two places still comparable?
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Feb 7, 2015 21:38
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muike posted:Is that really a unified theme across all the silent hill games? People say it a lot but I personally wouldn't be able to say if it's presented the same way across all of them or if it's just a selective reading of the overall concept of the place. Like SH1 was demonic hellscape based on alessa's torment, but SH2 doesn't have the same driving energy behind it so are the two places still comparable? Personally I think its a shame that it was never really utilized that well because its a lot more interesting than the stock cult plot that the vast majority of the series used. Hopefully Silent Hills brings it back, especially because Del Toro is writing it and he's really good at making similar kinds of sad and subdued character-driven horror which is what makes Silent Hill 2 so great. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Feb 7, 2015 |
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Feb 7, 2015 22:11
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Accordion Man posted:It wasn't totally clear but I meant to say that it was the theme of Silent Hill 2 that the town is the like that. It's never as a strong theme or as well executed like 2 in the rest of the series but they are bits and pieces here and there throughout the later games. i.e. mentally ill people like the Brookhaven inmates and Travis' mom see Silent Hill as a paradise. Downpour is probably the only game that really follows through on the idea in any sort of capacity. The rest of the games did tend to half-rear end symbolic monsters though, Homecoming is the worst example because the vast majority of enemies don't have anything to do with Alex. Let's roll with the idea that Silent Hill isn't a twisted hellscape for everybody. Considering the strange, horrifying abstractions it comes up with to reflect the psyche of the various Silent Hill protagonists, I want to know what a Silent Hill "paradise" looks like. Does it try to come up with nice things, but they come out warped? Like doubleunicorns or kittens with eight legs or something.
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Feb 7, 2015 23:00
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Silent Hill 3 was really interesting that regard. You had Claudia convinced that she was in Paradise, Heather seeing it as a hellscape with monsters, and then Vincent mocking both of them from a position where it wasn't quite certain *what* he was seeing, but it apparently wasn't what either of them were seeing. "Monsters? They look like *monsters* to you?"
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Feb 8, 2015 00:20
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Jenner posted:I recommend you aim for getting the 'In Water' ending first and then showing off all the others. The 'In Water' ending is largely believed to be the 'canon' ending of this game. That goddamn video still makes me laugh. I went "aww, man" aloud when I got The Room and saw the painting that makes In Water canon. I kinda wish there was a chance to actually talk to James' dad the superintendent instead of that just being a throw away connection.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:03
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There's hints in the original trilogy (As well as Downpour, but that's its own continuity) that the town started out as a pretty benign spiritual area that the local Native Americans considered sacred but due to all the suffering caused by all the European settlers and the eventual citizens of the town its been irreparably corrupted. Alessa's powers and her decade long suffering really pushed the whole area over the edge. I like the interpretation that 2 takes that while the town is still an eldritch hellscape it feels kind of neutral in the sense that its not going out of it way to kill people on its own out of malice, its only fulfilling what James, Angela, and Eddie want. And really most of the other games don't really contradict that idea, Silent Hill is actively trying to kill Harry in 1 because Alessa is trying to stop Harry from resurrecting the God at any cost and in 3 its a mix of Alessa trying to kill Heather in order to stop the God's rebirth and Claudia trying to break Heather into becoming the God's mother.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:06
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It was considered a "place of power" and viewed in awe and fear by the Native Americans. They wouldn't dwell directly in the area, but would perform rituals there. I'm pretty sure it was never a very friendly place.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:11
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DeathChicken posted:"Monsters? They look like *monsters* to you?" This is still a really good line. I love those kind of lines that just make you rethink everything you thought you knew.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:17
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Anoia posted:That goddamn video still makes me laugh. I don't think that line means that In Water has to be canon. James killed his wife; he has to leave his old life and vanish no matter what ending you get (unless he manages to properly resurrect Mary, but somehow I doubt that can happen).
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Feb 8, 2015 01:32
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^^ JINX. Buy me a health drink. ^^Anoia posted:I went "aww, man" aloud when I got The Room and saw the painting that makes In Water canon. That may not necessarily mean that In Water is canon, though, as James could have run off elsewhere after going to SH in this game. It can technically fit with all the endings, as we do not know what James does post-SH2. He could have started his life anew somewhere else after the events of SH2 and vanished from his previous life. (Though this is all coming from someone who likes to think that the In Water ending is canon anyway!)
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Feb 8, 2015 01:34
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I forgot the line when you examine it was kinda vague. I think I saw the picture of the lake plus that and jumped to conclusions. Also old man Sunderland keeping an umbilical cord in a box, plus James reaching into a filthy toilet without hesitation, among other things, makes me really wonder what the hell is up with the Sunderland family.
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Feb 8, 2015 01:48
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Accordion Man posted:There's hints in the original trilogy (As well as Downpour, but that's its own continuity) that the town started out as a pretty benign spiritual area that the local Native Americans considered sacred but due to all the suffering caused by all the European settlers and the eventual citizens of the town its been irreparably corrupted. Alessa's powers and her decade long suffering really pushed the whole area over the edge. I like the interpretation that 2 takes that while the town is still an eldritch hellscape it feels kind of neutral in the sense that its not going out of it way to kill people on its own out of malice, its only fulfilling what James, Angela, and Eddie want. And really most of the other games don't really contradict that idea, Silent Hill is actively trying to kill Harry in 1 because Alessa is trying to stop Harry from resurrecting the God at any cost and in 3 its a mix of Alessa trying to kill Heather in order to stop the God's rebirth and Claudia trying to break Heather into becoming the God's mother. Right. All the history behind the town really gives it a "house of leaves" feel to it, reshaping itself and what's inside it to better match those that come to it with secrets or motives that are in its interests. Like, I think the graffiti and the roadblocks (both the fences and the gorges, not to mention the locked doors) are all the town's doing, and all are deliberate signposts for the protagonists. SH2 turns around and takes this to another level, making the monster design be reflective of James' psychology. Most of the enemies have very sexualized female forms--whether they are the VERY sexy dressed nurses (short short skirts, very open cleavage necklines, high heels), the mannequins which are literally two lower woman body halves connected--essentially two vaginas and long legs, then the more surreal designs like the Lying Figures and the Mandarins, both of which have vaginal shapes strongly incorporated into their designs (also, note that the first clear shot we get of a Lying Figure is from behind, with a very shapely, feminine butt pointed at the camera). The cockroaches are really the only things not clearly formed from symbolism. The Abstract Daddies are weird because they're not from James, but from Angela, and very much correspond to her trauma. Pyramid Head though is a whole different beast. Our first clue to his identity is when we first see him, he's raping a mannequin to death. Then we see him behind the bars in apartments. If we stand perfectly still facing him, it starts becoming clear who he is. But the final nail is if in the labyrinth you equip his knife and turn off your flashlight--the monsters run from you. Pyramid Head is James. Small detail from the first video--but do I see hole shapes drawn on the wall across from the mirror, behind James, in the intro? Like later real holes in the wall will look kinda like those? As I said in the other thread, I'm a big fan of this game, and the series, but I'm a big wimp and can't play survival horror worth a dook. Which is why my first LP was the Orphan Trilogy because I'm a masochist (shameless self plug). I think all "intellectual" survival horror games owe a huge debt to this series, and even the bad games are kinda interesting. I can't wait to see where the discussion in this thread goes.
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Feb 8, 2015 02:42
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When I played through I thought that Pyramid Head represented the doctors who had treated Mary. Scalpels become knives, needles become spears, and an outfit that looks a bit like surgical scrubs. James subconsciously blaming them for her death (either through not treating her properly, or through treatments making her sick). All completely unsupported by anything, of course, but it made sense to me at the time.
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Feb 8, 2015 02:52
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Accordion Man posted:I think Leave is the best ending because while its the most positive its still really bittersweet and fits the game's melancholy tone while sticking with the game's theme of Silent Hill being a place of either redemption or damnation depending on what a person wants. For the longest time, In Water was my preferred ending. In a way, it still kind of is because I think it's the most conclusive (for better or worse) of the three endings. But, in recent years I've taken a shine to Rebirth because it's just so messed up.
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Feb 8, 2015 02:54
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Clearly these are the best voices for SH2. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8vyYASGFCI This still makes me laugh.
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Feb 8, 2015 03:53
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Kloro posted:When I played through I thought that Pyramid Head represented the doctors who had treated Mary. Scalpels become knives, needles become spears, and an outfit that looks a bit like surgical scrubs. James subconsciously blaming them for her death (either through not treating her properly, or through treatments making her sick). All completely unsupported by anything, of course, but it made sense to me at the time. I actually thought about this too, since the Great Knife looks like a giant scalpel. I feel like it could fit, because while we know Pyramid Head likes to get his rape on (particularly with monsters that have more female physiques), I remember reading somewhere that the developers wanted his mask to appear painful and burdensome to wear. Also, the nurses have super sexy bods but faces terribly disfigured and partially covered in bandages. So yeah, it seems like James is angry with his wife's health care providers while simultaneously guilt-stricken from killing Mary to the point that he wants judgment (doctor, would you believe that this was a mercy killing?), and sexually deprived enough that he lusts after the nurses (you bitches didn't save my wife, but you're sexy). Regarding the endings, "Leave" is supposed to be considered the "Good" ending (the player made James be nice as possible throughout the game). Nice, but kind of idealistic. Mary's words at the end are almost purely positive towards James despite what he did to her. Yikes. "In Water" seems to make the most sense for canon--James did some messed up stuff, but he doesn't seem like an inherently bad person for the most part, and he seems honestly destroyed about Mary's illness and eventual death. Mary doesn't seem entirely happy with what he did, but expresses that she understands and (sort of) forgives him, but not enough for him to forgive himself. "Maria" always make my skin crawl because it pretty much indulges all of James' worst bits, and Maria is pretty gross a lot of the time (Born from a Wish makes her more sympathetic though). And she's coughing as they leave anyway, so it doesn't seem like that's going to be a happily ever after for very long. "Rebirth" is just  . I tend to feel "In Water" is the most plausible, but "Rebirth" would fit as well, especially if you figure things don't go as well as James had hoped (so he and Mary would still be "disappeared").edit: Haha, yeah, pretty much. v v v v v v v v Ars Arcanum fucked around with this message at 05:46 on Feb 8, 2015 |
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Feb 8, 2015 05:09
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I always felt the Maria ending was the game (and by extension, the town itself) saying to James 'seriously, did you learn nothing?' The coughing fit at the end says to me that, when all is said and done, history is going to repeat itself, only with Maria. It's the darkest 'here we go again' ending you'll ever see.
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Feb 8, 2015 05:20
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Choco1980 posted:But the final nail is if in the labyrinth you equip his knife and turn off your flashlight--the monsters run from you. Pyramid Head is James. I had no idea about this part, so cool. It's also a nice touch with the labyrinth itself being included. The Cretian labyrinth of legend was built to house not simply a monster, but the physical manifestation of deception, lies and sexual depravity (the Minotaur was born because King Minos lied to Posiden, who in turn made Minos' wife Pasiphae gently caress a bull). The labyrinth is also a symbol of redemption, young lives fed into it to perish are done so as atonement for past sins. It's kind of cool to look upon the whole of Silent Hill as a labyrinth. The road blocks, dead ends, locked doors etc - they all funnel James towards the inevitable centre. Even when he tries to walk back the way he came he stops himself. The thing about true labyrinths is they do not terminate at the centre, there is always the path back out. Labyrinths were a big thing in medieval times, especially in churches and cathedrals. Huge labyrinths were laid out on the floor for people to walk along, the act of walking through the labyrinth was a completive and meditative experience in which the walker must exercise faith; faith that if they keep on the path, no matter how long or arduous, they will come out the other side. In this respect I think the 'happier' endings of Silent Hill are not so unsatisfactory after all, rather, they can be seen as an acceptable outcome for a man who kept his feet on the path and in doing so was cleansed by the experience.
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Feb 8, 2015 09:54
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muike posted:I've got to imagine that double helix only exist(ed) because they worked like contractors and would price themselves out WAY lower than other studios for the same games. I'm still salty about FME.  
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Feb 8, 2015 12:21
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VoidBurger posted:VA Stuff This thread moves pretty quickly, but I believe Liam O'Brien voiced Eddie and he kind of has the same problem mentioned with Troy as James. He is not fit for that role. Angela was voiced by Laura Bailey and its no surprise that you think she nailed it because that girl has got range. Personally though I think McGlynn hit it with both of her roles, but I'm a huge fan of hers so I might be a bit biased. Choco1980 posted:But the final nail is if in the labyrinth you equip his knife and turn off your flashlight--the monsters run from you. Pyramid Head is James. I have heard people say this again and again but have never actually gotten it to work and have never seen it conclusively work in a video. Are we positively sure this is actually a thing and not just the monster AI in this game being dumb in tight, dark spaces? Plus, the monsters are already attracted to James' flashlight and you can sneak by them sometimes if you have it turned off. Plus the corridors where people usually try this are incredibly dark when the flashlight isn't on. I'm not saying its not true, I'm just incredibly skeptical of this. That said, I do like the idea of Pyramid Head representing the doctors. Its not true, but I like the idea. And finally my favorite ending is Rebirth, simply because of the sheer horror of it. Though admittedly I like the Leave ending too. I like happy endings.
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Feb 8, 2015 12:42
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Anoia posted:I forgot the line when you examine it was kinda vague. I think I saw the picture of the lake plus that and jumped to conclusions. I can't speak for the filthy toilet digging, but where I live its pretty common for mothers to keep bits of the umbilical cord of their children, my mother has mine and my brother's wrapped in cotton among her sewing supplies.
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Feb 8, 2015 13:25
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