DC Comics: THE NEW 52 IS DEAD!! Convergence and Divergence

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > DC Comics: THE NEW 52 IS DEAD!! Convergence and Divergence

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lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Dinah has been thoroughly trashed on in the new Batgirl book at every turn, so I'm loving glad we're getting someone who can both write her and draw her well. Sign me up for Black Canary.

But man why the hell does Lobdell keep getting to write books.

head58 posted:

Do we know who the artist is on that Canary book?

Annie Wu and Irene Koh.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 16:35

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 09:40

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

WickedHate posted:

Midnighter ongoing...so cool. The Authority rocked and I hope this brings him closer to how he was then, rather then the N52's approach. Killing evil by moonlight, raising a family with Apollo by daylight.

If the person writing Midnighter takes cues from how he's written on Grayson (and with the spiral in the background they might connect it to that book) then I'm on board.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 16:59

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Teenage Fansub posted:

I wonder if there's a sliver of hope to turn the Justice League United 'TBD' back into Jeff Lemire. It'd be great to have a Lemire/Foreman reunion.

Lemire once said he would leave the book after twelve issues and he seems to be focusing a lot on creative owned stuff and Hawkeye with his exclusivity now being gone. It'll be strange to not have him on any DC book.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 17:05

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Gaz-L posted:

Yeah, the Robin, Son of Batman book is clearly just your bog standard Robin solo, just with Damien instead of Tim. We Are Robin... I want to know more about the premise. Is it like a social media thing, where people realise there's been a bunch of Robins, so it turns into an informal Batman Inc. kinda thing or what?

It's kind of strange to see Tomasi leaving Damian after bringing him back. Hopefully this is just a temporary thing. Has Gleason ever written anything before?

As for We Are Robin, I could see it being a book about the concept across the multiverse. It's nice to see DC trying to give some iconism to Robin as a mantle. It's been around for as long as Batman but has given a lot of poo poo for various reasons. A good way to celebrate the 75th Anniversary of the creation of Robin.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 17:26

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

WickedHate posted:

This is why I like Tim as Robin. He's Robin squared. He's who I think about when I think of Robin as his own hero, seperate from Batman. Dick and Damian are both Robin the sidekicks, but Tim not only evolved past the sidekick role, but took the Robin identity with him.

I don't really care about Damian. He was so much better as Dick's sidekick. So, maybe this ongoing will convince me on his worth in a world where Bruce is still Batman.

Tim has never been my favorite Robin, but everything you said is definitely true in regards to him.

I think Damian has a good chance to stand on his own though. His powers will probably not go away anytime soon and it's nice to see him getting a chance to finally stand on his own after being attached to Dick and Bruce for so long.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 17:36

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

ZenMasterBullshit posted:

More on topic though, do we know who and what from pre-53 is being folded into the new stuff? I really want The Question to be an actual thing, be it Vic or Renee. Maybe Wally will show up and we can have a good Flash related book again?

We don't know yet, if anything at all. Though these are just the books they're releasing in June, so there will probably be more stuff later on.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 19:12

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

What stuff did Jurgens write that people don't like? I'm possibly eyeing that Batman Beyond solo (which I am certain the Batman Beyond 2.0 comic was cancelled over) but the comments I'm hearing about him leave me worried.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 19:31

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

I could see Supergirl coming back in the future considering the TV show, but the sales for the new creative team haven't been any better than they were before so no surprise. As for Batwoman, the sales were so pitifully bad that it's not shocking to see them not bringing her back. Maybe at another time we'll see them both again.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 20:21

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Dark_Tzitzimine posted:

Indeed

Are you oblivious to the sarcasm or just combating with an earnest attitude.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 22:26

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Jiro posted:

All the talk about the reveal of Convergence on the heels of Secret Wars and then AFTER revealing what it was going to do DC finds a way to asspull something similar.

But Convergence was rumored before Secret Wars as an event to take place while editors were moving and information about it released before Secret Wars as well. Plus no one exactly knows what the hell Secret Wars is going to do.

Would DC be doing something like this without Convergence? Possibly, but the event is only as big as it is because of editorial moves causing books to be put on full stop. It's either an event or no mainline books for two whole months. Marvel is doing Secret Wars because of other reasons.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 23:01

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Nystral posted:

Where is Azzarello ending up after all of this? I don't see his name attached to anything is he leaving DC?

I don't think he's leaving, but I hope he gets something. Kind of surprised he didn't end up on Batman Beyond since he's writing that storyline for Future's End.

# ¿ Feb 6, 2015 23:32

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Literally The Worst posted:

Because DC really made sure to start from scratch in 2011.

Who gives a poo poo how it fits into this ungodly clusterfuck of continuity? The existing books barely do.

That and DC has pretty much said they don't care about mangled continuity and just want to make good books, each one having their own genre and tone. Frankly I'm fine with that.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2015 02:46

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Squizzle posted:

Who is the worst DC superhero

The Movement. All of them.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2015 07:24

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

I've seen a lot of people complaining about DC copying Marvel with this. I have two reactions toward it.

1) No poo poo, Marvel and DC have both been copying each other for years.
2) Do you want DC to keep publishing what hasn't been working for them, or trying to expand what little has been working for them? Batgirl isn't my cup of tea but no one can deny it, Gotham Academy and even Grayson haven't been the biggest news of DC this past year in terms of new books. Of course they want to replicate what has worked for those books with their line.

# ¿ Feb 8, 2015 21:09

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Die Laughing posted:

They were siblings practically. Didn't she get adopted by Bruce as well?

Yes. Dick, Jason, Cass, and Tim after Identity Crisis are adopted by Bruce. Damian is too, sorta. Steph and Barbara are the only ones who aren't legally his children.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2015 03:22

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

I doubt Harley and Deadshot will be off the team. Deadshot is basically as much associated with the Squad as Waller and they seem to like having Harley on the team enough to include her in the movies for it.

But fighting ISIS...yeesh, it's been a while since DC has been so blatantly ignorant about inserting real life hot topics into comics.

# ¿ Feb 11, 2015 18:33

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Flameingblack posted:

I love that now convergence finally gets to erase the really dumb "10 years of Robins" now and this is when they choose to address it. They choose to address it after it shouldn't matter. Or am I just confusing this with a new concept

We Are Robin seems to be about the idea of Robin as a symbol of heroism and goodwill to young teens in Gotham, the same way Batman is a symbol against corruption and crime. If Gotham Academy is "Harry Potter but in Gotham City", then We Are Robin is looking to be "The Goonies but in Gotham City" from what I gather.

# ¿ Feb 15, 2015 08:51

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

I hope in the future Jim Lee will be remembered for three things: X-Men, the Hush storyline and drawing Hitler taking a dump while reading a comic with Superman punching him on the cover.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2015 00:13

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

The one that looks like Batman Beyond might just be Flashpoint Batman? Superman never died in Beyond.

# ¿ Feb 16, 2015 19:18

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

I admit I'm willing to give Starfire a try because she isn't meant to be as kooky as Harley and for anyone turned off by cheesecake, Emanuela Lupacchino is on interiors and she's not really a cheesecake person unless it's very intentional.

# ¿ Feb 17, 2015 06:18

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

gfanikf posted:

Wait, isn't not really paying attention to continuity what lead DC into the headaches they had in the 1970s and 1980s that lead to them doing Infinite Crisis or whatever it was titled (I will flat out admit my DC knowledge base sucks).

Not sure about that, but as far as the New 52 goes continuity is awful.

Like look at Batman Eternal for example. Barbara got a new costume and the writers said that only happened after Eternal ended, along with moving to Burnside. However she's had that costume on in Eternal since issue 36, even though it logically shouldn't exist yet because Barbara's normal costume was destroyed in an accidental fire and she made the new one afterward.

Or even right now with the current issue that came out this week. Ra's mentions being falling into a ravine in Nanda Parbat, which happened in Robin Rises. That means Snyder and co are saying Eternal is happening after that arc in Batman and Robin. Then where the hell is Damian in all of this? He hasn't been mentioned as being alive and he hasn't shown up anywhere at all! They can explain away Dick being involved because of Spyral, but Damian should logically be in the book if Eternal is taking place after he came back to life.

And it's not just Batbooks. In Action Comics and Supergirl, Superman has a beard right now. No other comic he's been popping up in has him with that beard. Harley Quinn hung out with Power Girl, even though PG should be already on Earth-2. Lets not even get into DC's indecision about whether or not there was a Teen Titans group before the current one because a bunch of writers refer to Dick as being a Titan even though that logically shouldn't be.

Point is this: DC can't be half-assed to keep a stable competent continuity going on and so as long as they're willing to acknowledge that and just say "we don't care", then I'm fine with that. As long they make good books that keep the focus on making good stories worth the money you pay for them, I'll live.

# ¿ Feb 19, 2015 17:34

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Gaz-L posted:

I was more wondering why Dick's coaching a girl's high-school soccer team. He's a spy, right? Is this an EEEVIL terrorist high school? ...I just remembered someone mentioned this in the Batman thread... It's the same school Bruce and Steph broke up in Batman Inc, isn't it?

His undercover identity at the academy Spyral fronts as is a gymnastics teacher who is gay as of issue 4.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 03:31

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
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Gaz-L posted:

Tell me that wasn't an idea to get the girls to stop hitting on him? I don't know what would annoy me more about that. How dumb it makes Dick seem, or how cliche it is that it's backfiring.

It's actually more of Minos being an rear end in a top hat.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 03:54

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

WickedHate posted:

Yeah, that too, but I'm also remembering the horrible way Midnighter was written in this same book a few issues ago.

Midnighter has been better written in Grayson than all of New 52. That's not saying much I know, but his popularity in Grayson is essentially the reason Midnighter is getting a solo.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 04:43

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Jiro posted:

So.......the current costume tweak is being scrapped??

I think the idea is that he'll have the t-shirt for SM/WW and Action Comics and B/S (the latter two both written by Greg Pak) and he'll have his usual costume on Superman and Justice League. Wonder Woman isn't having her weird space suit for Justice League, but is for SM/WW and Wonder Woman. Seems to be in line with the general loosening of continuity.

Batbunny seems to be universal though, outside of Justice League and Justice League of America.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2015 19:13

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

McSpanky posted:

DC Comics: It looks like they just swapped the [randomly selected] bits from [successful Marvel thing] to make [lame rehash].

Yeah, Marvel hasn't been copying DC at all lately!

(Quickly, hide the new Spider-Woman costume and Marvel's out-of-nowhere monthly regular priced variant theme.)

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 06:05

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

See this is why I don't like Killing Joke being new 52 canon without Oracle existing. It's almost always associated with Barbara being shot and paralyzed and artists seem to just love calling back to that moment with alarming disturbance. Oracle at least gives some brightside to that horrible moment because Barbara didn't lose the fight in her and continued to be a hero in a new way.

We should be thankful RHATO is selling so low that DC doesn't want to give it a variant or we'd probably see Joker towering over a bloody Jason with a crowbar in hand.

# ¿ Mar 13, 2015 18:19

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
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BrianWilly posted:

Now...okay, we make fun of the Finches' new Wonder Woman katars, but I'm gonna say something here that none of you are gonna like: isn't it the exact sort of thing that feels totally appropriate for the Wonder Woman as envisioned by Brian Azzarello? Isn't it the exact logical conclusion of the Wonder Woman world he created that is all about the grimdark and the war and the strife and the bracers that create weapons out of thin air -- all sharp edges and pauldrons and militaristic stances and intimidation -- and not so much about either Wonders or Women?

I disagree.

True Azzarello's run is a lot about the turmoil of battle and war. Hell Diana literally becomes God of War a little more than halfway into it. However it is about war not in the sense of it being bloody and brutal, but the flipside - how it can be a means of defense and protection and a rally to bring people together in a time of crisis. Something that Diana does multiple times, most notably with the Amazons in the last few issues. There's no such thing as a good war, but there can be such a thing as a necessary war and conflict always exists and there are many ways to resolve it. God of War, for Diana, is about keeping the balance of both war and peace. The concept is used in a very similar way to the idea of her being an ambassador, like in Rucka's run.

This is best shown in the Zero Issue, which shows Diana meeting Ares for the first time. He trains her to fight and show no hesitation in battle and tests her by making her fight a Minotaur. At the end of the battle he tells her to kill it, but she looks into its eyes and takes mercy on it. That is the message Azzarello brings with making her God of War: it's not just about the battle, it's about humanity itself. When is war really necessary? Should mercy be given to enemies, even when they tried to hurt you? Diana takes mercy on many people during Azzarello's run, but knows when mercy is appropriate and when it isn't. This idea that Diana is suddenly hungry for battle is the exact opposite of what Azzarello was aiming for with the concept of God of War. Soule didn't get it either when he wrote her Future's End issue, suddenly turning her into the God of Peace, and the Finches aren't getting it now too.

Plus in Azzarello's run, her bracers aren't just to deflect bullets but also restraints that hold back her true power. She takes them off multiple times, gains enormous demigod strength and fights with her bare hands alone. She wears them normally as a means of restraining herself so she doesn't seriously hurt anyone she doesn't want to. Putting swords on them defeats that whole purpose.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2015 05:46

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Codependent Poster posted:

Well look at what Marvel did to the Spider-Woman Manara cover. And compared to the Batgirl cover, that was tame and silly.

What are you talking about, they didn't do anything to it. They defended Manara publicly and sold the cover, then prompted to change Spider-Woman's costume and claim the controversy had nothing to do with it.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 01:30

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Gaz-L posted:

I thought they cancelled the cover and another one they were paying Manara to do?

No, the cover was sold. Cancelling covers with Manara was apparently due to his schedule not allowing him to make variants, though that could just be a cover-up story to save face. Comic companies are terrible at being humble and admitting mistakes.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 01:33

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Codependent Poster posted:

Look at a few posts above yours. Look at where the logo is.

The logo is on top of the cover as it always is for every book. They made it slightly larger, but they still sold it. It doesn't change that.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 01:50

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Good on Rafael. I understand what his intentions were, but I'm glad he understands why people were upset by it and is understanding. Good on DC too for respecting his decision and taking it down as well.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 02:39

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Madkal posted:

Just a kind of explosive meaningless kind of question here but what are people's thoughts about Killing Joke. As much as I can see people being upset about a variant cover here, and as much as it didn't suit the tone of the book, it still kind of made sense to reference the Killing Joke because when people think of Joker and Batgirl it is probably Killing Joke that sticks out most in their mind.

It's vastly overrated. I think a lot of its status comes from Moore's name and some iconic moments, like the very last conversation Joker and Batman have before the police arrive, but I see it constantly rated as one of the best Batman stories of all time and I don't get why. Sure it might have been a big deal when it first came out, but it seems to be more remembered for a few moments than as a whole piece. These moments being Barbara answering the door to be shot, Gordon being put on a ride while being shown images of his daughter's suffering, the ambiguous ending.

That's not to say it's a bad story, far from it, but I don't get why people put it on such a pedestal. It also works better as an OGN and not something in-continuity because of the darker tones and the ambiguity that Moore was aiming for with the ending. And while it's cool that we got "Oracle" from it, people are fast to forget that DC had no plans for Barbara after KJ and were planning to retire her from being a crimefighter entirely. She only became Oracle because Ostrander conceptualized it for his Suicide Squad run and it got picked up by the Batbooks of the 90s, notably in Dixon's Nightwing and Birds of Prey. Losing Oracle is a sore spot for a number of reasons, but one of the biggest is that it erases the efforts that creators went through to continue letting Barbara being a hero and an active member of the Batman team after KJ nearly robbed her of that for the sake of a shock moment.

This got long, but the point is KJ is well-written but is given way more acclaim than it deserves.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 06:05

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Cuchulain posted:

Is that a loving Batman Beyond x KAMANDI: THE LAST BOY ON EARTH book? Because I'm vigorously mashing fistfuls of dollars into my keyboard.

I wouldn't be too optimistic, because there's a good chance that the Batman Beyond of the book is going to be Tim Drake instead of Terry McGinnis. Someone at the offices had the brilliant idea of introducing a fan favorite character into mainstream continuity for the first time ever...and then killing him off and having a different character take on his name.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2015 05:24

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
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redbackground posted:

How long is Sensation Comics/WW supposed to go on for?

As long as DC chooses to keep it on their digital line-up, since its an anthology series like Legends of the Dark Knight and Adventures of Superman. Digital books have a lower threshold for selling-related cancellation and its been consistently well received even with the more weaker stories.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 21:29

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Yeah Future's End has a terrible ending. It'll be picked up in Convergence (as will Earth-2's World End) and then in Batman Beyond.

Basically both FE and WE became stealth tie-ins to Convergence.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 23:22

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Teenage Fansub posted:

Convergence: Question preview
http://www.avclub.com/article/exclusive-dc-preview-rucka-and-montoya-reunite-con-217492

Really excited for this. No other book in the line-up became as fast of an instant buy as this one.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 00:09

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Blockhouse posted:

been out of the DC game since the new 52 started. What's happened since then that's worth picking up?

Of the newer things, Grayson has been a lot of fun and a fresh take on the character by tossing him into a different setting and rolling with it. No trade collections yet. Batman and Robin by Tomasi has been an incredibly solid 40 issue run, which already has a few trades out.

Echoing Wonder Woman by Azzarello and Demon Knights too. The latter is especially one of the most underrated books put out by DC in the beginning of the New 52 and went too soon.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 01:46

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

Can't say I'm thrilled about Batgirl Convergence. The art is spotty and the conversation is pretty bad, especially with Stephanie considering Cassandra as "competition" even though they're best friends.

Justice League looks like it'll be fun, if just for the cast of characters they chose to use. Couple A-Listers and a few B-Listers and it''s always fun to mix things up.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 22:53

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# ¿ May 22, 2024 09:40

lotus circle: Dec 25, 2012; Jushure Iburu
So don't worry

The issue she read, by the way, was the Red Robin one with Cass pretending to kill Tim. Not exactly the best issue to use, though Cass' characterization in it wasn't bad.

Anyways I got Question and Justice League and was happy with both. I talked to some friends who got the others and the consensus seems to be that the majority of all the books are just straight set-ups for the second issue. They tease, but don't do much past that. Question I think worked because it didn't tease much, it was just a solid issue about Renee and Harvey and the teasing comes at the tail end. Justice League, likewise, established their set-up toward the end and left the first two-thirds as character interaction.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 19:21

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > BSS: Bisexual Super Son > DC Comics: THE NEW 52 IS DEAD!! Convergence and Divergence

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