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NovaLion posted:I'm going to be starting up in a local group here in the next couple weeks, and I'm pretty torn about how to build my character. So far there is a Fighter and Ranger in the group, though we'll have 5 or 6 people playing including myself. I've been looking at a Sorcerer to start, maybe taking Storm origin. Either that or Favored Soul with the Life domain to get some clutch heals if necessary. With everyone being so new to the game, I'd like to optimize my character without going entirely too overboard into munchkin territory. I've read mixed about Favored Soul being overpowered, though. Would a Sorcerer/Warlock multiclass of some kind be better? Am I pigeonholing myself too much into damage-dealer territory? Do what you want to do, or better yet, do what makes sense for a cohesive character thematically. I don't know your DM, but in my opinion a decent DM should/will balance things so that non-optimized characters are usable. They make better stories afterwards anyway. More to your actual question, I agree with the previous post that healing is underpowered. You may actually be saving people more damage by putting enemies down faster than by actually healing them. Most likely you'll end up with a cleric or paladin in a group of 5+ anyway. If you end up with no healing (my group of 6 literally has nothing besides the ranger's cure light wounds), you're going to rely on potions. If this is the case, talk to your DM, since I found potions were super weak as well, and super expensive for what they were. 50gp for ten health or less, when enemies routinely roll 2d8+mod? What were they thinking? I ended up declaring them a flat % heal for my players and we're seeing how that goes. TL;DR - Do what you want. Your only job is to play the thing you'll have the most fun playing. Frush fucked around with this message at 20:49 on Nov 2, 2015 |
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Nov 2, 2015 20:46
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I've been looking at DPR calculations, and offhand does anyone know exactly how they're calculated? For example, I'm seeing people put in calculations for ~24 DPR for archery rangers at level 5. That seems absurd to me, since our ranger firing a longbow does ~1d8+5, a max of 13 assuming a perfect roll. Assume two hits, and an average roll (5 on a d8), and that's still only 20 damage total. What is making the difference here? 5e at low levels is really deadly for the players. They just got to level 5, and of them get an extra attack, so that's going to pretty much double the party DPS, which should effectively make them more survivable. Monsters really have way too much health at the lower levels compared to how much damage they do. I get the whole flat math thing, but I'd be hesitant to start a party from level one again because their low damage output makes combat slow and the party vulnerable. The prime example of this is the starting encounter in the Lost Mine or Phandelver starter. Also, does anyone have any decent ideas on how to get your wizards & sorcerers to actually cast spells? By this I mean 'How do I make them stop doing nothing but casting firebolt?' I've got one of each, and I'm pretty sure in the last two sessions the only non-firebolt spell they've casted between them was false life one time. It's driving me batty. Sorcerer took wild magic and has had bad luck with the rolls (has almost wiped the party twice by himself!), and might just be getting afraid.
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Nov 3, 2015 02:04
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Frush posted:For example, I'm seeing people put in calculations for ~24 DPR for archery rangers at level 5. That seems absurd to me, since our ranger firing a longbow does ~1d8+5, a max of 13 assuming a perfect roll. Assume two hits, and an average roll (5 on a d8), and that's still only 20 damage total. What is making the difference here? An archer ranger also likely has the colossus slayer ability which deals an extra d8 in damage to a target that isn't at full health and their hunters mark which deals an extra d6 every time they hit the thing they have marked. A ranger at level 5 specced with the crossbow expert feat, colossus slayer, hunters mark active, and a hand crossbow is doing the following on their turn provided the target is already hunter's marked. Action Attack action with hand crossbow, on a hit 1d6+dex mod piercing+1d6 from hunter's mark. Extra attack- hand crossbow shot, on a hit 1d6+dex mod piercing + 1d6 from hunter's mark+ 1d8 from colossus slayer. Bonus action Hand crossbow shot, on a hit 1d6+dex mod piercing +1d6 from hunter's mark. Rangers can deal quite a bit of damage in the early game once all their abilities start to stack up. Successful Businessmanga fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Nov 3, 2015 |
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Nov 3, 2015 02:44
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Actually, rangers can reach that amount of damage without bonus action attacks. It's all about the Sharpshooter feat when it comes to ranged damage. Most people assume that, on average, monsters will have a bonus to their AC that gives players a 60% chance to hit if their primary ability score modifier starts at +3 and increases from ASIs at levels 4 and 8. The archery fighting style gives a +2 bonus to attack rolls, and Sharpshooter gives a +10 damage bonus in exchange for a -5 attack bonus. This means that a level 5 archery ranger that uses Sharpshooter on every attack (as they usually should) has a 5% chance to critically hit, a 40% chance to hit (not including crit chance), and a 55% chance to miss. Assuming 18 Dexterity from the first ASI and Hunter's Mark being used on the target, you can multiply the average damages by their probabilities to find that a single attack will deal an average of 8.55 damage from just the longbow and Sharpshooter, 1.75 damage from Hunter's Mark, and once per turn, Colossus Slayer will deal an average of 2.25 damage. All together, that's 22.85 damage per round with non-magical gear and no external assistance or preparation. A battle master fighter (or someone with levels in it) will wind up outpacing the ranger in damage because of the Precision Attack maneuver offsetting the penalty of Sharpshooter even further. Sharpshooter is more of a character class than a feat, really.
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Nov 3, 2015 03:56
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Vanguard Warden posted:Sharpshooter is more of a character class than a feat, really. It's more like what Fighting Styles should be; as is, Protection is the only one that gives you some buttons to push (albeit pretty dull and situational) instead of just boring +numbers like the others.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:54
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A Darker Porpoise posted:An archer ranger also likely has the colossus slayer ability which deals an extra d8 in damage to a target that isn't at full health and their hunters mark which deals an extra d6 every time they hit the thing they have marked. Vanguard Warden posted:Actually, rangers can reach that amount of damage without bonus action attacks. It's all about the Sharpshooter feat when it comes to ranged damage. Ah, this explains so much. I've been so busy with life and prepping stuff as DM that I haven't taken a good look into how all (any, really) the character classes work, and I've told the players to know their own rules since I don't have the ability to babysit six of them. Neither of them (there are actually two rangers in the group, one hunter and one beastmaster. I know, right?) are doing any of these things. Both are literally just auto attacking. Heck, the beast master took the dual wielding stuff, but is so concerned about keeping her beast alive she just started using a bow and plinking away with no bonuses. No wonder the party is getting rolled by stuff. No healers, wizard and sorcerer only use firebolt ever (because the sorcerer's wild magic kills them more often than enemies, and the wizard is a necromancer who doesn't really have any necromancy spells yet, I'm probably going to reskin some old ones for him), rangers are doing literally a third of the damage they should be by not paying attention, the monk has been rolling so badly the party just forced him to go buy new dice, etc. The fighter is on his game, but there's only so much he can do with how nerfed they got since 4th edition, and with the slow killing rate from the others he spends a little more time at single digit health than he should be through no fault of his own. I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go through every character class they're playing, and start giving advice on how to upgrade the damage. I guess 5e wouldn't be quite as lethal if they were tripling their damage output.
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Nov 3, 2015 08:28
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Frush posted:Ah, this explains so much. I've been so busy with life and prepping stuff as DM that I haven't taken a good look into how all (any, really) the character classes work, and I've told the players to know their own rules since I don't have the ability to babysit six of them. Alternatively, you as DM could scale back the encounters. It isn't actually your job to get the players to play optimally. It IS your job to provide balanced and fun encounters, and if your party is coming in low on the damage scale then you should tweak things on your end. Drop monster HP or ACs. Throw in fewer thugs, "forget" to use some legendary powers or spells. The age of the competitive RPG tournament is pretty much over. The point isn't to make them better at game math, it's to have a good time. If your players are enjoying themselves playing sub-optimally, so what? It's not like that's going to keep you from making it to Regionals. Now if they ask you for help with the math or their classes, or are frustrated by feeling ineffectual? Sure, give 'em some help. But if they're cool with the way they're doing things, it's on you to adjust to them, not the other way around.
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Nov 3, 2015 21:30
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Frush posted:I think I'm going to have to bite the bullet and go through every character class they're playing, and start giving advice on how to upgrade the damage. I guess 5e wouldn't be quite as lethal if they were tripling their damage output. jng2058 posted:The point isn't to make them better at game math, it's to have a good time. If your players are enjoying themselves playing sub-optimally, so what? This. It might still be a good idea to unpack what's going on and see if you can make things more fun for them. Specifically: Frush posted:Heck, the beast master took the dual wielding stuff, but is so concerned about keeping her beast alive she just started using a bow and plinking away with no bonuses. This sounds like the player is invested in having an animal buddy and worried that they could lose that aspect of their character. Let them know that it's very unlikely that the animal companion will get killed, and stick to that. It's not going to ruin the game if a beastmaster has an effectively immortal pet. Frush posted:No healers I know it never really says so, but the game assumes you're going to have one or more healer casters and that they're going to cast a lot of healing spells. You might want to think about scaling back damage and giving the players more healing options.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:07
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jng2058 posted:Alternatively, you as DM could scale back the encounters. Those two things are mostly what I've been doing. And fudging the damage rolls a bit. They aren't new, so I assumed they'd be on top of things. They take extra damage whenever I point it out (one of the ranger's wasn't adding proficiencies to her damage, even), they just seem like they don't want to use anything but basic attacks and firebolt. AlphaDog posted:It might still be a good idea to unpack what's going on and see if you can make things more fun for them. I haven't heard any complaints, but I know a lot of them were looking forward to getting their extra attacks and third level spells at level 5, so I doubt they'd have a problem with doing extra damage should the opportunity be available. The problem seems to be that they just don't like spending anything that's a potentially limited resource. Between the four casters (technically, including the ranger's), I think we've seen a grand total of one spell slot expended in the last two sessions. It's a good idea to talk to the beastmaster about that though, I'm sure that would improve her participation. I've made healing more effective from potions already, and I think we're going to have someone start taking some levels in a class that can heal, which should help. I think the other problem is attention. I've been letting them all use electronic character sheets on their laptops, which may have been a mistake. It's great for the one person taking campaign notes, but I think I need to consider enforcing paper sheets to get people's eyes on the board more.
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Nov 3, 2015 23:42
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You can also just halve the damage you are dealing to the players which will let the beast master be in the thick of it duel wielding and is the character concept instead of changing how they play because mechanics not supporting the concept. The hunter style ranger can get some weapon that does what the optimization would do on a weapon instead of having to know the system. The beast master a set of magic necklaces that combine their hp so less worry about the animal. Now they are both play more important in a fight. Also maybe this is the wrong advice and people will say I am Hitler for it. Fallorn fucked around with this message at 19:29 on Nov 4, 2015 |
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Nov 4, 2015 00:29
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Should I go Arcane Trickster and just grab the cantrips for the swordmage, or just do 2 Wizard/whatever Rogue or something?
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Nov 5, 2015 15:36
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Generally full caster is the way to go; more spells to pick from and more slots. Basically means more ways to interact with the game. EK and AT are just like "have some spells.. and then some niche stuff involving spells" but really, better and more spells is the way to go.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:04
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Yeah, it seems that a rogue really need to be able to turn invisible, have darkvision, and probably teleport to even do rogue stuff--leverage those skills--at many points. The invisible mage hand is ok for exploration (still have to summon it with a verbal component which alerts everyone every minute), but having a ton more spell slots is probably more useful in the end unless you have a lot of other supporting mages on your team already that don't mind using their resources to help you out. All in all I'd say it depends on what your priorities are. If you want to be a swordfighter with just a hint of magic, go full Rogue and take Magic Initiate for like Booming Blade, some other cantrip, and Shield. Find a way to get invisibility and darkvision through other means, like potions or fantasy Lasik. If you want to be a sneaky spellcaster who can passably swordfight, go Bard (skill expertise), Warlock (at will Silent Image and Disguise Self, an invisible flying imp familiar), or maybe Sorcerer with Subtle spell. AT is the undisputed champions of stealing poo poo from enemies during fights though. If you want to make it a game about stealing all the enemy's potions and backup weapons and keys and poo poo then running away from them AT is optimal. Just spend every 30 ft plus half your speed away from the thing you want, move half your speed closer to it, summon the hand, cunning action handsteal and move back to you, then move the other half of your speed. It's super dirty until the DM makes whatever macguffins you need weigh more than 10lbs.
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Nov 6, 2015 14:36
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slydingdoor posted:Yeah, it seems that a rogue really need to be able to turn invisible, have darkvision, and probably teleport to even do rogue stuff--leverage those skills--at many points. The invisible mage hand is ok for exploration (still have to summon it with a verbal component which alerts everyone every minute), but having a ton more spell slots is probably more useful in the end unless you have a lot of other supporting mages on your team already that don't mind using their resources to help you out. I could go Bard but we already have a Lore Bard so I'm thinking I'm just going to go Rogue/Wizard. I mean, it seems worth the two-level dip to get the stance, since it lets me add the Int to my AC and increases my move speed by 10 feet. Or would I be wrong? Power Player fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Nov 6, 2015 |
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Nov 6, 2015 17:59
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Rogue is great 1- or 2-level dip, for a lot of builds; so no worries there.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:01
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I'd dip into wizard 3 for double the spell slots and level 2 spells. Pretty much all of them help out a lot with thief/assassin stuff.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:35
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Is the Arcane Domain for clerics out of the new SCAG a good choice for Favored Soul Sorcs?
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Nov 10, 2015 03:51
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Not really.quote:detect magic, magic missile
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Nov 10, 2015 04:09
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Anyone know any good premade adventures for 1st level characters?
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Nov 10, 2015 04:19
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Covok posted:Anyone know any good premade adventures for 1st level characters? I kept hearing suggestions for Hoard of the Dragon Queen, so I've started running it for a group and I like it so far.
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Nov 10, 2015 05:24
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Covok posted:Anyone know any good premade adventures for 1st level characters? Princes of the Apocalypse starts out alright, but the intro encounters "can" be done in any order, but none of them matter to the plot, and DON'T do the necromancer's lair first, because it is largely bullshit. The intro encounters are just there to get you to level 2-3, so you can skip them. If you wanna crop it it your tastes, you can probably make that stuff more campaign-important but as-is there's literally no tie-ins.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:07
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Of the official content that's been published, your options are: Lost Mine of Phandelver from the Starter Set begins at level 1 Hoard of the Dragon Queen starts at level 1 Princes of the Apocalypse technically starts at level 3, but one of the chapters can be reworked to be a level 1-3 adventure before you start on the main quest Out of the Abyss starts at level 1 LMOP and HOTDQ were both written before the game was final, so there are some issues with the encounter design being a bit janky. I've also heard of HOTDQ being a bit railroady. The other thing to note is that LMOP ends at level 5 and HOTDQ ends at level 7, so you have to look for another book if ever you want to extend play further. POTA and OOTA need a bit more work to pull together into a cohesive adventure, but the advantage is that they go all the way up to level 15, and that they were written later, so they should be somewhat more mature in that regard. Past that, you're looking at either homebrew or unofficial published content, such as: http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/153213/WK0-Night-of-the-Mad-Kobold-5E https://www.froggodgames.com/wizards-amulet
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Nov 10, 2015 06:11
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Phandelver seems pretty sandboxy so far having just hit level 3, and it's OK from a story perspective. But as ever with prewritten mods, there's only so much flexibility it can have to cope with PCs who want to go off the rails.
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Nov 10, 2015 18:32
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What's the best way to get a character going that teleports around and slings damage from ranged?
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Nov 10, 2015 22:56
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Some Sort Of Spellcaster™ Short-distance teleportation without using a spell slot is actually pretty under-represented IIRC. Do Warlocks gets some maybe?
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Nov 10, 2015 23:19
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As far as I know, only shadow monks get free teleportation (in shadows). For that kind of play, just play a warlock, take the spell sniper feat and stand back an ungodly distance. Who needs teleportation when you can fire on someone from 340ft away? Alternately, take repelling blast - also known as 'disengaging blast' and just walk away from enemies.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:20
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They've got an Elf variant (Eladrin) in the DMG in the section about how to make your own race that gets a Misty Step every Short Rest.
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Nov 11, 2015 00:29
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NovaLion posted:What's the best way to get a character going that teleports around and slings damage from ranged? Race: Be a half elf and beg the DM to let you trade Skill Versatility for the Eladrin subrace's 1/rest Misty Step. Nothing else does ranged, damage, and teleports. Conjurer Wizards don't do damage, they control. Rangers can't teleport. Paladins can't ranged well. Warlocks can't really teleport and damage more than once a fight. slydingdoor fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 02:00
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My main worry with this premade adventures is that they aren't what my players are looking for. They do make an idea of what to run off, though. Thanks for the advice.
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Nov 11, 2015 02:35
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slydingdoor posted:Class: Take Sorcerer to at least level 5 before dipping Warlock 2 (any subtype from either), spam Misty Step with Eldritch Blasts. Maybe take Spell Sniper if your DM is being rough about cover bonuses and you're always fighting high AC enemies. Why Sorcerer to 5? What I was looking at was something like Sorc 1 for the Con save, Lock 1 for Hex/Eldritch blast, Lock 2 for Agonizing Blast. Maybe Lock 3 for the Chain/Familiar? Then Sorc levels again, using Lock spells to restory Sorc points before rests with Quickened/Twinned spell for Agonizing EB. If I can get the Eladrin part of Half-Elf going, would that work? NovaLion fucked around with this message at 04:44 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 04:39
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So, for whatever reason, I'm kind of interested in trying out the rules for long distance travel, if it happens in my game. Exhaustion and stuff like that. Is this a bad idea? I've never really run D&D before or any game that worries about such things so I don't know if these kinds of mechanics are good or not.
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Nov 11, 2015 04:55
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NovaLion posted:Why Sorcerer to 5? Casting only 1st level spells until like level 6 is fairly harsh and makes you pretty drat useless to the group overall when they're coming up against things that you need to spend 3 spell slots to put down  . Going to 5th level sorcerer first makes you actually useful as a member of the team, those 3rd level spells go a long way.Also keep in mind if you intend on going 1 sorcerer-> 3 warlock->sorcerer the rest of the way, you're also not going to get your first ability score increase until 7th level so you're going to fall behind math-wise a bit on your spell attack bonus and your spell save DCs, not that it's a huge issue but it's something to be aware of.
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Nov 11, 2015 05:17
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NovaLion posted:Why Sorcerer to 5? Covok posted:So, for whatever reason, I'm kind of interested in trying out the rules for long distance travel, if it happens in my game. Exhaustion and stuff like that. Is this a bad idea? I've never really run D&D before or any game that worries about such things so I don't know if these kinds of mechanics are good or not.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:02
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Covok posted:So, for whatever reason, I'm kind of interested in trying out the rules for long distance travel, if it happens in my game. Exhaustion and stuff like that. Is this a bad idea? I've never really run D&D before or any game that worries about such things so I don't know if these kinds of mechanics are good or not. It's something you want to be upfront with your group about and discuss with them. Some people like the challenge and feel of it, some people figure it gets in the way of the story, the combat, whatever it is that actually matters to them.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:43
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It's not something you want to use all the time. If the party is traveling from the equivalent of New York to Boston, you don't need to implement it. However, if the party is setting out from the equivalent of Mombasa to head to Kilimanjaro, or from Alice Springs to Ayers Rock, then yeah, you could track their pace, how many days they're been traveling, how much supplies they've consumed so far, and so on.
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Nov 11, 2015 06:56
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Covok posted:So, for whatever reason, I'm kind of interested in trying out the rules for long distance travel, if it happens in my game. Exhaustion and stuff like that. Is this a bad idea? I've never really run D&D before or any game that worries about such things so I don't know if these kinds of mechanics are good or not. The problem with Exhaustion and poo poo like that is, IIRC either you grind the campaign to a halt so someone doesn't die, or a
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Nov 11, 2015 09:12
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Dark Sun in 4E had rules re: distance travel in inhospitable environments. If you're looking to do some "traveling through desolate, hostile lands" then you might want to give the Dark Sun Campaign Setting a look. Also give it a look anyway because Dark Sun loving owns. I'm going to thumb through my book to check, but I don't think it would be hard to convert the mechanic from 4E to 5E. Edit: I need to check whether it was the Campaign Guide or the Monster Manual (I think it was the MM) but it also had "environmental encounters" that were mechanically kinda-sorta like a fight but it was basically "try to not die in this super-magical-storm" kinda thing. Dick Burglar fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Nov 11, 2015 |
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Nov 11, 2015 19:43
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If any of the players are Rangers or Druids or Outlanders or Urchins you should be ready to give them a chance to take advantage of their speed mechanics by putting difficult terrain in front of shortcuts that they can bypass. Have time sensitive adventure hooks that get more urgent and difficult to resolve with time and make the character choose which ones to do, and how much money or political capital to spend on renting horses or vehicles and stuff to offload the exhaustion on so they can quest faster. If you can make it part of what people are invested in rather than a menu-driven minigame, it's good. Sometimes though when pacing demands it as DM you gotta just fast forward to the dungeon entrance or whatnot. But if you handwave everything into a fast travel teleportation system before spellcasters get Teleportation Circle (out of combat only Town Portal) at level 9 and the potentially suicidal Teleport at level 13, you lose a lot of the ability to force some choices on the players and add some uncertainty into the mix. Mostly sapping their spells (slots and prepared) and carrying capacity, maybe choosing who goes hungry or thirsty and has to deal with disadvantage on all skills (don't let the party scouts/faces get this) or halved speed (if you have some less exhausted combat mounts you can get away with this one) or disadvantage on attack rolls and saves (spellcasters who force saves or just buff during combat can deal). Make the enemies get exhausted too if the PCs are running night raids during their sleep shifts or whatnot.
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Nov 11, 2015 21:43
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First time player here (and first time DM). My group just finished the Starter Set, which was actually pretty great at holding my hand. Maybe too great, in fact, because now I have zero idea on what happens next. I'm not terribly creative, so I'd like to depend on existing material, but I can't seem to find a clear answer on where to go next, considering I now have a party of 5th level heroes. I do have access to the DM guide/Monster Manual, but I'm unclear on whether or not those are even required with pre-built campaigns. If anybody has any tips or resources, they'd be appreciated. I've spent a bunch of time searching and I'm coming up empty.
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Nov 11, 2015 23:41
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Typh posted:First time player here (and first time DM). My group just finished the Starter Set, which was actually pretty great at holding my hand. Maybe too great, in fact, because now I have zero idea on what happens next. I'm not terribly creative, so I'd like to depend on existing material, but I can't seem to find a clear answer on where to go next, considering I now have a party of 5th level heroes. I do have access to the DM guide/Monster Manual, but I'm unclear on whether or not those are even required with pre-built campaigns. If anybody has any tips or resources, they'd be appreciated. I've spent a bunch of time searching and I'm coming up empty. While I don't play Next, I will say as a general principle, yes, you need the DMG and MM. Regardless of edition, no pre-written campaign can cover every eventuality. There will be times your players want to go off in their own direction, and times where you read the adventure and go "that's dumb" or "that won't work for my players" and need to revise it. Having those tools on hand will help prepare you to improvise and fill in any gaps that pop up in play.
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Nov 12, 2015 00:17
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