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Just sort of pondering by post, but has anyone done any kludges to address the M.A.D. aspects of 5e? Like, the fighter doesn't get much out-of-combat capability to speak of (no expertise AND no spells) and basically you have to pump STR if you want to go melee/thrown or pump DEX for finesse/ranged... and AC  And CON because really everyone needs it. At that point you're tapped out on ability scores, and you're missing out on the big skill groupings (INT/WIS/CHA). Feats/ASI being an either-or is also problematic, IME.It also bugs me that Druids and (ostensibly Rangers) want WIS but they moved Nature back to being an INT skill. The first thing that comes to mind is something like Gamma World, where you automatically get high numbers in the abilities you need and roll for the rest..? or some variation on that. Actually, it also seems like it'd be pretty easy to get rid of ability scores altogether; the math is pretty transparent (whether it works right is another matter entirely, but)
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Feb 8, 2015 10:50
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Generic Octopus posted:I can't think of much off my head that CON is used for besides HP You're forgetting Concentration checks for spellcasters, which is part of why everyone wants CON. Maybe to replace that, you could have Concentration key off of the middle of INT/WIS/CHA?  The big problem with getting rid of an ability score entirely is it messes up point buy, unfortunately. AlphaDog posted:It bugs me too. Let Nature be either INT or WIS, problem solved. One idea that I've had, which I've posted other places for other editions is to let any Knowledge Skills from your class list use either INT or WIS. For the most part class skill lists don't do much (because of backgrounds) and this makes them meaningful without being a straightjacket. Basically what I think I was angling at was "Fighters need CON and DEX or STR; You get 18 DEX or STR and 16 CON. Then roll for the rest/get 14 in one of INT/WIS/CHA." Although I'm sure some munchkin would ruin this with multiclassing. Slippery42 posted:What about completely decoupling skills from ability scores. Right now, they're often written as something like "you can make a Strength (athletics) check" which seems to me like that might have been the original intention I think that was the intent, and I borrowed from that idea for the skill list I'm using in The Next Project; each Skill is a Skillset, and does different things when used with a different ability score. A DM I had in 4e did something similar, where "Appraise" was "Streetwise but with INT instead of CHA" for example. Or, "Climb" could be "Athletics + STR" and "Tumble" could be "Athletics + DEX" or stuff like that. Maybe, if you want to go DTAS, start by creating a class-based equivalent of Proficiency that stacks with actual Prof. Fighters would always add it to Weapon attacks and probably Athletics. Admittedly I haven't thought about this at any depth, I'm just sort of thinking this up as I type.
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Feb 8, 2015 20:46
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How much should Bards care about their weapon stat? (i.e. STR or DEX) What builds might you use a halfing or gnome for?
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Feb 9, 2015 00:07
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eatenmyeyes posted:Did you have anything specific in mind? Sorta kinda not really. Like, basically what I'm thinking about is, the Bard's weapon selection is poo poo if you start as one at level 1 (like when you have to be the healer, or whatever). Once you get to level 3, you can go Valor Bard and have some more options (with the added  So starting as a Fighter and then multiclassing Bard can work (hurray for getting all weapon/armor proficiencies) but I dunno exactly what weapon might be most useful in that scenario. Is going heavy armor and dumping DEX any good? Or is it better to not MC and stick with Light/Medium and the limited Bard weapon profs? Or just gently caress weapons, get enough DEX for the +2 AC with Medium armor and use spells all the time? Alternatively, you can go with a Race that gives you some more weapon proficiencies (Elf, Dwarf) but no CHA bonus... So I guess my question is, would that be even worth playing, as a bard?
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Feb 9, 2015 05:46
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Or, how about just throwing darts in a bar?
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Feb 9, 2015 18:19
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Trast posted:What are some creative applications for low level spells you all have seen in your play time? I know a story about a goon playing a druid using heat metal to kill a Roper by feeding it a corpse with armor on it then heating the armor up from inside. I thought that was hilarious and really creative. Minor Illusion bullshit.
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Feb 11, 2015 03:24
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Can you use Acrobatics to avoid OA's, just like Tumble in 3.5? One of my DM's seems to think so, but I think that might be a "rulings not rules" thing.
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Feb 16, 2015 04:11
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MonsterEnvy posted:Assassin has some cool out of combat stuff and if it can get the drop on some one deals fantastic damage. Open question: how does stealth work?
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Feb 17, 2015 09:26
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PurpleXVI posted:Giving the PC's "tokens" to help define when they want rests is actually kind of a cool idea, though it might take some serious effort to fluff in some cases(perhaps an adrenaline surge after the first fight in a chain restores some HP and limited-use powers?), and I don't think it'd be unfair to say the DM is allowed to go: "Hey, PC's, explain to me how you manage to rest/recover here." rather than just making it an entirely free thing to use. Though the GM shouldn't be too aggressive about analyzing their rest-justification, he should just push them to come up with something cool rather than taking it as an instant heal effect. The way I did something like this in my 4e hack/homebrew was basically that short rests were a Character resource, rather than a Party resource, keyed off an ability mod. So you had like 3-5 per day, or whatever, and each one fully restored your Encounter powers and your HP. it'd be harder to wrangle that into 5e since it doesn't have 4e's Power or Healing Surge structure..
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Feb 18, 2015 20:35
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MonsterEnvy posted:Indeed I would never go for a negative in Wisdom. To expand on this, as a general D&Dism, I CON: everyone needs it for HP, casters need it for Concentration, and it's a common save DEX: everyone needs it for Initiative, non-heavy armor users need it for AC, and it's a common save WIS: everyone needs it for (passive) Perception, it's the spellcasting stat for some casters and some important skills are associated with it, and it's a common save On the flipside, the rare saves: STR: only has one skill associated with it, mostly used for heavier/two-handed weapons or thrown weapons (you can get by using DEX instead, with finesse and/or ranged weapons) INT: only Wizard and Eldritch Knight need it, has a bunch of skills though CHA: if it isn't your spellcasting stat (Sorcerer, Warlock, Paladin, Bard), it's just there for social skills P.d0t fucked around with this message at 22:17 on Feb 18, 2015 |
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Feb 18, 2015 22:10
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One other consideration I might throw in there is that DEX can be a little more valuable if the whole party goes in on having good Stealth. It's one of those rare skills in that regard; a lot of the time you can basically get by with having one "expert" on each skill, within the party.
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Feb 18, 2015 23:11
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Elendil004 posted:With polearm mastery, do enemies who are already within my sphere of influence, but move around (not disengaging) provoke attacks? Nope. Basically once an enemy is within your reach, they don't provoke from you unless they leave your reach.
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Feb 19, 2015 18:44
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I was just looking at some MC options, and it says you basically combine all your slots together from your spellcasting classes. So, the Paladin's Divine Smite says you expend one "paladin spell slot" but if you MC with, say, Bard/Warlock/Sorcerer after taking 2 levels of Paladin, would you then end up with a ton more slots you could smite away all the time? There doesn't seem to be any distinction w/r/t slots by class.
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Feb 21, 2015 01:15
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Basically, because cantrips don't add an ability mod to their damage, they don't always reliably kill "monsters that are supposed to die in one hit"; if you instead use minions that expressly have 1 HP, cantrips become more reliable. Although once you hit level 5 and they all scale up, it becomes less of an issue to use "monsters that are supposed to die in one hit" (presumably, those will be below-level.)
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Feb 22, 2015 18:16
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Here's some arrays I came up with a while back, if you're like me and always want even numbers in your ability scores: (+2s can go onto any number you want, but you usually want to make sure your primary ability score for your class gets to 16) Races that get +2 to one, +1 to another: 15(+1)/14/14/12/8/8 14/14/13(+1)/12/12/8 Half-Elf or Variant Human (+1 to two): 15(+1)/14/13(+1)/12/10/8 15(+1)/14/12/12/11(+1)/8 15(+1)/15(+1)/14//10/8/8 14/14/14/11(+1)/11(+1)/8 Mountain Dwarf (+2 STR, +2 CON): 14/14/14/12/10/8 14/14/14/10/10/10
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Feb 23, 2015 01:25
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Elendil004 posted:What happens if you hit a creature with both compelled duel and abjure enemy (frighten)? Um not much of anything? Compelled Duel basically gives it penalties when it moves away from you, and Abjure Enemy makes it not able to move
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Feb 23, 2015 02:21
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well let's see: Compelled Duel:
Abjure Enemy:
Soooo it seems like Abjure Enemy is the same but better..? I mean, unless it only has thrown weapons for ranged attacks (or none), it can still hit you from 25ft away.
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Feb 23, 2015 02:48
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Well, for "support class" you're pretty much limited to Bard or Cleric, anyway. Ranger might fit, if the campaign lends itself to one.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:30
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Your oath spells are always "prepared" and don't count against the number of spells you could otherwise prepare. So, yeah, not all of them are gonna give you non-paladin spells, but oath spells just guarantee you will always have those spells at your disposal.
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Mar 10, 2015 07:47
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At a glance, everything seems right and your spell picks are solid.
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Mar 14, 2015 20:51
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Thunderwave is solid if you rush in, Dodge, and get a bunch of enemies on you (probably better for a Valor Bard, though) Healing Word you'll for sure want if you're the main healer, but you have a Cleric so maybe not. Bane is kinda lovely from what I hear but the others are quite good.
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Sep 17, 2015 09:01
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I figured I might as well cross-post this from the main NEXT thread, since it's pretty much baseline advice: How to Build a Spellcaster P.d0t posted:Pretty much this; weapons are basically for when you can't be bothered spending slots to make things die. Maybe add this stuff to the OP? Also, from earlier in this thread: How to Prioritize Ability Scores P.d0t posted:To expand on this, as a general D&Dism, I
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Oct 25, 2015 21:11
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Vanguard Warden posted:Sharpshooter is more of a character class than a feat, really. It's more like what Fighting Styles should be; as is, Protection is the only one that gives you some buttons to push (albeit pretty dull and situational) instead of just boring +numbers like the others.
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Nov 3, 2015 04:54
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Generally full caster is the way to go; more spells to pick from and more slots. Basically means more ways to interact with the game. EK and AT are just like "have some spells.. and then some niche stuff involving spells" but really, better and more spells is the way to go.
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Nov 6, 2015 06:04
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Rogue is great 1- or 2-level dip, for a lot of builds; so no worries there.
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Nov 6, 2015 20:01
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Covok posted:Anyone know any good premade adventures for 1st level characters? Princes of the Apocalypse starts out alright, but the intro encounters "can" be done in any order, but none of them matter to the plot, and DON'T do the necromancer's lair first, because it is largely bullshit. The intro encounters are just there to get you to level 2-3, so you can skip them. If you wanna crop it it your tastes, you can probably make that stuff more campaign-important but as-is there's literally no tie-ins.
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Nov 10, 2015 06:07
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Covok posted:So, for whatever reason, I'm kind of interested in trying out the rules for long distance travel, if it happens in my game. Exhaustion and stuff like that. Is this a bad idea? I've never really run D&D before or any game that worries about such things so I don't know if these kinds of mechanics are good or not. The problem with Exhaustion and poo poo like that is, IIRC either you grind the campaign to a halt so someone doesn't die, or a
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Nov 11, 2015 09:12
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Dipping and Multiclassing So when you're working on your build, it's important to know what things are decided by your starting class:
Other than this stuff, you gain all of a class' features when you multiclass into them. Rogue and Fighter tend to be popular dip classes, so let's examine why: Rogue, taken at level 1 grants the following: Hit Points: 8 + CON Armor: Light Weapons: Simple, hand crossbow, longsword, rapier, shortsword Tools: Thieves' tools Saving Throws: DEX, INT Skills: choose 4 from one of the longer lists available Class Features Expertise: double your prof on 2 skills, or 1 skill and your Thieves' tools Sneak Attack: +1d6 damage per turn with finesse or ranged weapons when your target has an enemy within 5ft (and you don't have disadvantage) or you have advantage on the attack roll. Thieves' Cant: fluff 2nd level Features Cunning Action: hide, dash, or disengage as a bonus action Fighter, taken at level 1 grants the following: Hit Points: 10 + CON (2nd only to Barbarian) Armor: all armor, shields Weapons: Simple, Martial Tools: none Saving Throws: STR, CON Skills: choose 2 from a pretty short list Class Features Fighting Style: a big boost for anyone wanting to use any kind of weapon, or if you wear armor Second Wind: bonus action heal on yourself, recharges on any rest 2nd level Features Action Surge: take an extra action, recharges on any rest So broadly, Rogue is the choice if you want to have a skillful character, Fighter is largely for having your pick of any equipment in the game and particularly if you plan to specialize with a certain weapon. Multiclassing requirements In order to MC you need to meet the minimum ability score requirements (13 in whichever score.) Notably, Wizard is the only class that requires INT, but you'll also want INT if you go for the Arcane Trickster rogue or Eldritch Knight fighter. Classes basically fall onto a couple of axes, based on this. STR/CHA requirements
DEX/WIS requirements
Depending on your secondary stats, you can kinda branch out, but it's generally very hard to bump both a weapon ability and a spellcasting ability, so keep that in mind when planning characters. You need to decide fairly early on whether your Actions will be primarily spent attacking with weapons or casting spells. Another thing to remember is that you must meet the requirements for all classes you MC into; if you don't MC, you can even ignore the requirements for your solo class. It's worth noting that Paladins and Rangers get Fighting Style at 2nd level, so if you start as a Fighter and can meet the requirements for either of those classes, you can end up with 2 Fighting Styles by level 3. Defense fighting style fits with any other style, while Dueling and Protection can also pair up well. Similarly, Bard gains Expertise at 2nd level, and certain Cleric domains give skill profs or Expertise, so consider those classes if you are making a skillful character with a Rogue as its base. P.d0t fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Nov 18, 2015 |
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Nov 18, 2015 21:18
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Keep in mind, the Advantage from Reckless Attack can be used to make low-STR more viable, but even then you usually want to pump CON rather than DEX; Barbarians effectively get AC and HP from pumping CON so it's a good investment.
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Nov 25, 2015 20:07
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Ryoshi posted:You seem to have done a bunch of thinking (and math) regarding 5E balance, is what I said above doable? I'm of the "yes" opinion. Particularly if you're doing stuff to give characters more breadth, rather than just unlocking stuff along some degenerate feat-chain.
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Nov 27, 2015 07:58
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thespaceinvader posted:Are there any feats actually worth bothering with for a Lore Bard, or is it all about the ASIs? It's basically been answered already, but the broad generalization on feats is that they fall into a few categories:
Feats kind of have the same problem as Maneuvers; you have a limited number of picks, but you get more as you level and they're all in one big pool, so you end up taking the best ones early, and then (contextually) the lovely ones start to seem ok (or still just as-lovely) except that in those cases the ASI starts to look pretty good, if it didn't already.
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Nov 27, 2015 20:31
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Apparently the concept of "Halfling with a Druid mount" is space that has been explored (and it owns). Mounted Combatant feat lets you do some fun stuff like never be hit ever again, or something.
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Mar 9, 2016 20:48
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For high damage and always being able to target the enemy, Sharpshooter with either Ranger or Fighter (for Archery Fighting Style), then mix in Rogue.
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Mar 9, 2016 21:18
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