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Cat Mattress posted:Note: "Hebdo" means "weekly". (It's actually short for "hebdomadaire".) That is strange in a Times London or New York Times or Los Angeles Times sort of way. To my untrained eye, Hebdo stood out as the more unique label than Charlie.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:51
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It's not like "parking dispute" and "bigotry" are mutually exclusive here.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:51
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boom boom boom posted:Someone earlier in the thread said that the shooter had called tow trucks about people parking wrong so often the towing company refused to take calls from him. I couldn't find the post or the source right away, there's a lot of chat about mildly related topics like Sam Harris in this thread. Gotcha, so someone said he called tow trucks a lot, and the police offered an opinion too (based on evidence we're not privy to). On the other hand, a federal investigation has been opened into this crime to see if it meets the federal definition of hate crime. Seems a bit premature to be making any type of hate crime call.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:52
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Last Buffalo posted:Whoops, I guess you didn't read the stuff on his Facebook that was critical of discrimination aimed at Muslims. If there isn't a judicial determination that this was genocide, it is proof of institutional American Islamophobia. paranoid randroid posted:It's not like "parking dispute" and "bigotry" are mutually exclusive here. Clearly he was bigoted against certain parking techniques.
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Feb 16, 2015 20:52
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CommieGIR posted:Guy posts anti-Muslim stuff on his facebook page and has a known history of threatening his Muslim neighbors proceeds to put them on their knees and executes them gangland style. Wasn't he threatening his neighbors over a parking dispute in the first place?
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Feb 16, 2015 20:53
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Radbot posted:Gotcha, so someone said he called tow trucks a lot, and the police offered an opinion too (based on evidence we're not privy to). On the other hand, a federal investigation has been opened into this crime to see if it meets the federal definition of hate crime. You mean like Tezzor, drilldo squirt, Volkerball and others have been doing since the moment the corpses hit the pavement?
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Feb 16, 2015 21:06
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Do we really have to be as naive as the federal government here? Of course the feds are going to be very deliberate and say "oh we're investigating." Meanwhile anyone who hasn't fallen off a turnip truck can clearly see it was a hate crime.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:15
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Know who else doesn't consider it a hate crime? People committing other hate crimes against Muslims
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Feb 16, 2015 21:28
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snyprmag posted:Know who else doesn't consider it a hate crime? People committing other hate crimes against Muslims How do we know that it's a hate crime and not an architectural statement, huh? Huh?
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Feb 16, 2015 21:39
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Effectronica posted:How do we know that it's a hate crime and not an architectural statement, huh? Huh? They explicitly say it's a hate crime
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Feb 16, 2015 21:40
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boom boom boom posted:They explicitly say it's a hate crime They're talking about the architecture, not the people who work there. God, can't you see? It's all so simple!
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Feb 16, 2015 21:41
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boom boom boom posted:They explicitly say it's a hate crime Dear Agent Cooper, Wondering if you got my first note, re: my killing of Laura Palmer? Signed Leo Johnson.
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Feb 16, 2015 21:52
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CommieGIR posted:Guy posts anti-Muslim stuff on his facebook page and has a known history of threatening his Muslim neighbors proceeds to put them on their knees and executes them gangland style. He also posted "if you are anti-gun, unfriend me now" but obviously he wasn't a gun nut or anything...
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Feb 16, 2015 21:58
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Starving Autist posted:He also posted "if you are anti-gun, unfriend me now" but obviously he wasn't a gun nut or anything... I think it's a bit weird that you don't here the typical anti-gun-nut voices commenting on this case, or maybe I missed them? This guy had enough guns to warrant that, didn't he?
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Feb 16, 2015 22:02
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e:nm
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Feb 16, 2015 22:16
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Effectronica posted:They're talking about the architecture, not the people who work there. God, can't you see? It's all so simple! I'm strongly starting to suspect that you're a "Do It to Julia" re-reg, especially since you've turned the virulent anti-autistic bigotry up to 11 lately. but I'll bite anyway. Assuming that you, like Tezzor/Volkerball/etc. (whose posts I would much rather read than yours, amazingly enough), are wholly unwilling to admit that there is a substantive difference between a hate crime where the perpetrator explicitly declares the act to be motivated by religious ideology (I.E. Charlie, Copenhagen, or the mosque graffiti)... could I at least get you to admit that you've already made up your mind Chapel Hill was a hate crime and it is extremely unlikely any official report or investigation could convince you otherwise? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Feb 16, 2015 23:08
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Liberal_L33t posted:I'm strongly starting to suspect that you're a "Do It to Julia" re-reg, especially since you've turned the virulent anti-autistic bigotry up to 11 lately. but I'll bite anyway. What are you talking about, my friend? Chapel Hill was obviously a man, quite reasonably, murdering someone over parking and his victims, who felt he was bigoted against them, were simply reverse racist themselves. But thanks for the compliment.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:11
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Liberal_L33t posted:I'm strongly starting to suspect that you're a "Do It to Julia" re-reg, especially since you've turned the virulent anti-autistic bigotry up to 11 lately. but I'll bite anyway. A surprising amount of people are really emotionally invested in the idea that this was a hate crime. Because if it's not a hate crime, that means those three people getting murdered is OK? Or people who weren't convinced it was a hate crime for the beginning are OK with it? Or are racists?
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Feb 16, 2015 23:14
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TildeATH posted:I think it's a bit weird that you don't here the typical anti-gun-nut voices commenting on this case, or maybe I missed them? This guy had enough guns to warrant that, didn't he? 3 pistols 2 shotguns and 7 rifles is not a huge arsenal. It's a good start. It is strange, normally after a high profile shooting, the ban XYZ123 crowd shows up. Is it possible that, because of his Liberal views on everything else, they are staying away. Maybe if he had on a Duck Dynasty T-shirt and drove a pickup truck.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:14
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boom boom boom posted:A surprising amount of people are really emotionally invested in the idea that this was a hate crime. Because if it's not a hate crime, that means those three people getting murdered is OK? Or people who weren't convinced it was a hate crime for the beginning are OK with it? Or are racists? It's almost as if... they are less concerned with the tragic loss suffered by this particular family, and more eager to talk about the implications for political discourse *links to a google image search of mirrors* 
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Feb 16, 2015 23:39
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Liberal_L33t posted:It's almost as if... they are less concerned with the tragic loss suffered by this particular family, and more eager to talk about the implications for political discourse *links to a google image search of mirrors* Liberal_L33t posted:Those "hijabis" are free to think what they want, and I don't doubt that many of them are inclined to feel that their group is threatened, especially since they likely resent that the more traditionalist aspects of their culture are being publically critiqued. I don't expect your average muslim, christian or atheist on the street to think strategically. What I do expect those muslims on the street to eventually understand is that this incident is not going to be enough to shut down the critique of Islam by outsiders in the media, no matter how much they (or you) might wish it was.
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Feb 16, 2015 23:41
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Liberal_L33t posted:It's almost as if... they are less concerned with the tragic loss suffered by this particular family, and more eager to talk about the implications for political discourse *links to a google image search of mirrors* As a "hijabis", I think, It's obvious you don't like the "implications for political discourse" of this and also your opinion of me is lowered on the basis of my religion.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:20
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Some guy in thread: So this looks like a hate crime. Athiests in thread: Those muslims are savages because of fgm. Me: Hmmm.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:23
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Me: this really looks like a hate crime. That leet idiot: You can't take outside criticism of Islam.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:24
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drilldo squirt posted:Some guy in thread: So this looks like a hate crime. Well, to be fair, there have been atheists in this thread who have come forward and admitted that this incident has caused them to reevaluate their own position WRT religion, and understand that New Atheist rhetoric does have problematic elements. And then there are the atheists who are going full Dawkins and dismissing this as nothing more than a parking dispute.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:30
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B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!
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I'm atheist. I don't give a fart about Dawkins and co. This looks like a hate crime to me. I don't see how this thread would change anything about my opinions.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:39
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Cat Mattress posted:I don't see how this thread would change anything about my opinions. Has that ever happened in the history of D&D? (Not just your opinions, but anyone's.)
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Feb 17, 2015 00:40
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Liberal_L33t posted:It's almost as if... they are less concerned with the tragic loss suffered by this particular family, and more eager to talk about the implications for political discourse *links to a google image search of mirrors* Happened in the Jezebel thread too and it looks like this is going to end up the same way.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:41
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Vaginapocalypse posted:Well, to be fair, there have been atheists in this thread who have come forward and admitted that this incident has caused them to reevaluate their own position WRT religion, and understand that New Atheist rhetoric does have problematic elements. That's weird considering there's not much evidence at all to support this as a hate crime motivated by the perpetrators' (lack of) religion. That would be like changing your opinions on frat houses because of the UVA story. I think what's most problematic is how most posters here jump to conclusions simply based on their pre-existing biases and scream at anyone who waits for facts.
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Feb 17, 2015 00:47
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tsa posted:That's weird considering there's not much evidence at all to support this as a hate crime motivated by the perpetrators' (lack of) religion. That would be like changing your opinions on frat houses because of the UVA story. I think what's most problematic is how most posters here jump to conclusions simply based on their pre-existing biases and scream at anyone who waits for facts. I think that there's no doubt that this is a hate crime, but motivated by his virulent racist and anti-Islamic bigotry. Unfortunately while these things and atheism aren't inherently tied to one another, a lot of self-professed atheists promote those things distressingly often.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:02
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Do you guys remember when that dude in Florida shot the four black teens in a car because they were playing rap music too loud and it totally had nothing to do with race, why would you think it had to do with race? People get shot over loud music EVERY DAY, bigotry isn't real!
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Feb 17, 2015 01:02
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I think it had to do with race because I listened to the hour and a half police interview where he says he was afraid of a skinny young black kid's music so much he had to shoot him, and had a half dozen other obviously racist delusions. I definitely want to listen to this guy's intake interview, and if he says things that point out that he's racist and looking to kill Muslims, then I'd totally agree. However, if it seems he has schizophrenia, or that he has some irrational hang up about defending his property, I'm less likely to assume he was out to kill them for being Muslims. I don't feel embarrassed by waiting to hear the confessions of a guy who turned himself in.
Last Buffalo fucked around with this message at 01:14 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 01:11
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Who What Now posted:I think that there's no doubt that this is a hate crime, but motivated by his virulent racist and anti-Islamic bigotry. Why do you think that? You might not have doubt that it was a hate crime, but that's different from there being no doubt.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:33
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For what it's worth(not much, lol) I'm an atheist and it looks like the guy was a bit of a bigot to me but I also think that the parking thing was a factor because all the witnesses say he was really up in arms about where people parked, so I guess it was a combination of factors? Anyway, I think it's really sad that those students were killed, they seemed like really good people from what little I know about them, but even if they were assholes no one deserves to be murdered like that. BTW, I thought "Atheist" just meant someone who does not believe in any gods or supernatural beings and stuff, but lots of people use it like it means that you're an anti-religious bigot? I know that there are atheists like that but I don't really think of that as being part of atheism itself so much as part of being a huge, judgmental douche-bag.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:39
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boom boom boom posted:Why do you think that? You might not have doubt that it was a hate crime, but that's different from there being no doubt. The fact that there exists someone who has some doubt that it's a hate crime is meaningless. Hell, there's probably someone that thinks Hitler's motivations weren't actually antisemitic and is working on a piece for Slate explaining why that's the case right now.
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Feb 17, 2015 01:45
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boom boom boom posted:Why do you think that? You might not have doubt that it was a hate crime, but that's different from there being no doubt. Ok, no reasonable doubt.
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Feb 17, 2015 02:25
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drilldo squirt posted:As a "hijabis", I think, It's obvious you don't like the "implications for political discourse" of this and also your opinion of me is lowered on the basis of my religion. If you support legal or de-facto enforcement of your religion's laws, I absolutely do think less of you for it. And if you don't, then what specifically was so objectionable about the pro-Charlie demonstrations to lead both muslim and more-multicultural-than-thou atheists to rhetorically associate the murdered cartoonists with Nazis?
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Feb 17, 2015 03:25
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Liberal_L33t posted:If you support legal or de-facto enforcement of your religion's laws, I absolutely do think less of you for it. And if you don't, then what specifically was so objectionable about the pro-Charlie demonstrations to lead both muslim and more-multicultural-than-thou atheists to rhetorically associate the murdered cartoonists with Nazis? You're whatever you call people racist against Islamic people.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:29
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I'm an atheist, and this is pretty clearly a hate crime. I just don't think it's a hate crime driven by his atheist beliefs. Hating Muslims is just something massive assholes do regardless of their own religious inclinations. Combine that with the dude being somewhat mentally unstable and you get a tragedy like this. Then again I'm the kind of dude who can look at what Hitchens or Dawkins writes and not accept it as gospel, so that's another issue entirely. I happen to like Dawkins' non-religious work a lot more. He's a really good 'pop-science' writer, even if he doesn't like the term.
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Feb 17, 2015 03:33
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drilldo squirt posted:You're whatever you call people racist against Islamic people. Yeah, and if you hate Jewish Orthodox rules, then you're an anti-semite. I like the logic going down here. ungulateman posted:Then again I'm the kind of dude who can look at what Hitchens or Dawkins writes and not accept it as gospel, so that's another issue entirely. A lot of Hitchensians and such despise his views on the War in Iraq. He was right about Kosovo, though. Goddamn, he really was right. Plisk fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Feb 17, 2015 |
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Feb 17, 2015 03:57
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