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How are u posted:This video get posted yet? Cops straight up murder a completely non-violent non-threatening mentally ill man in front of his god drat mother. 10 seconds from the door knock to loving murder. A man holding a screwdriver? Probably just working on fixing something. A black man holding a screwdriver? Clearly a threat, FUCKIN SHOOT HIM
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Mar 17, 2015 19:31
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Harik posted:I know the residents of DC are majority black, but departments in minority-majority districts seem to love recruiting from the suburbs instead. The balkanization of American policing results in a tendency for the best candidates to migrate towards the best funded agencies and it leaves small and underfunded police forces with fewer options. Edit: Especially when you consider that the systematic racism in the justice system bars a disproportionately high number of minorities from law enforcement careers.
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Mar 17, 2015 19:45
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How are u posted:This video get posted yet? Cops straight up murder a completely non-violent non-threatening mentally ill man in front of his god drat mother. 10 seconds from the door knock to loving murder. "We, uhhhhh..... *looks down* can't talk about it. Yeah... we can't talk about it." Sounds like the sissy liberal nanny state is censoring our ossifer's right to Free Speech. This is how liberty dies: standing over a bleeding dude who is no longer holding a screwdriver while his mother howls in the background.
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Mar 17, 2015 19:48
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How are u posted:This video get posted yet? Cops straight up murder a completely non-violent non-threatening mentally ill man in front of his god drat mother. 10 seconds from the door knock to loving murder. Jesus Christ. Where was this?
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Mar 17, 2015 20:59
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It was posted by the Dallas Morning News, so I'm going to say Albuquerque.
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Mar 17, 2015 21:35
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Going from the video alone, and not any other sources, I'd say it is not 'straight up murder'. Problem is if the guy is mentally ill and wielding a screw driver and you can see he actually runs at the officers, what choice do they have in the circumstances? They have literally milliseconds to think of a response and if they for an instant believed they could be seriously injured then surely the use of firearms was justified?
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Mar 17, 2015 21:43
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marmaduke1979 posted:Going from the video alone, and not any other sources, I'd say it is not 'straight up murder'. Problem is if the guy is mentally ill and wielding a screw driver and you can see he actually runs at the officers, Running at them? I think you are watching the wrong video.
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Mar 17, 2015 21:50
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gently caress You And Diebold posted:Running at them? I think you are watching the wrong video. Well the problem I admit is that you do see movement by the man, but the camera view does not shift until the last moment.
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Mar 17, 2015 21:52
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Is there somekind of "buckle up" smiley on SA or perhaps a good GIF?
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Mar 17, 2015 21:54
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marmaduke1979 posted:They have literally milliseconds to think of a response and if they for an instant believed they could be seriously injured then surely the use of firearms was justified? Nope! There was no reason to draw the firearms in the first place, and surely two trained officers can restrain a single person, even if that person is wielding a screwdriver. Police in other countries handle this sort of thing all the time without murdering people.
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Mar 17, 2015 21:59
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Nobody gets a pass because they only had milliseconds to think, Nobody gets that kind of pass in any profession military or otherwise.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:00
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Nonsense posted:Nobody gets a pass because they only had milliseconds to think, Nobody gets that kind of pass in any profession military or otherwise. They do under British law. I cannot speak for an American jurisdiction. But here in the UK at least, if you are in genuine fear that you will suffer serious injury then you could potentially use a level of force that the officers have in the video.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:05
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marmaduke1979 posted:They do under British law. I cannot speak for an American jurisdiction. But here in the UK at least, if you are in genuine fear that you will suffer serious injury then Every police officer in every country can use force to protect himself or others against reasonable threats with reasonable force. It's the "reasonable" here in the US that is so widely different from other countries.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:09
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Nonsense posted:Nobody gets a pass because they only had milliseconds to think, Nobody gets that kind of pass in any profession military or otherwise. Actually, they do. That's how that Air National Guard pilot got off with a fine and a reprimand after he bombed the Canadians at Tarnak Farms.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:17
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About the only way that could be "reasonable" is if you work under the assumption that the mere presence of a black man means your life is in danger. Admittedly, this does seem to be the policy for U.S police.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:19
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Someone within arm's length holding a screwdriver definitely can be a threat. The reasonableness of perceiving them as a threat depends on the circumstances, but the fact that he didn't put the screwdriver down when they told him to and instead advanced towards them could be considered threatening. It's a sad, messed up situation.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:25
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Someone update the list of things african americans aren't allowed to hold tia.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:26
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Is there some reason they couldn't taze him instead of ventilating him? Because this seems like exactly what Tasers were meant for.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:29
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Dead Reckoning posted:Someone within arm's length holding a screwdriver definitely can be a threat. The reasonableness of perceiving them as a threat depends on the circumstances, but the fact that he didn't put the screwdriver down when they told him to and instead advanced towards them could be considered threatening. It's a sad, messed up situation. Yeah, the saddest part being responses like this.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:30
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A screwdriver can gently caress someone up. I've seen a far share of adw screwdriver. A well placed one can kill and a poorly placed one can ruin your week or function of a limb. It is a reasonably common carried weapon because unlike a knife or a gun, it won't get you arrested. It is really, really hard to see what is going on there. It does look like he moved toward an officer, if he charged? Hard to tell. I am curious what exactly was said on the call. "My son is chasing me, threatening to kill me with a screwdriver" is different than "my son says he is hearing voices and needs to go to the hospital." The problem here, regardless of whether the shoot was "good" is that the police have become the first point of contact for any mental illness situation. Yet, thier training on dealing with the mentally ill in ways that don't use force is piss poor. Even if that was valid self-defense, thay kid didn't have to die. Once mom was out of the house, you can de-escalate, back off, and talk him down. To a person having an episode, moving in, barking orders, and actong aggressive is going to backfire. Command presence, which is all the rage at the academy is almost sure to backfire in a situation like this. Watch a social worker talk down someone having an episode. It is amazing. LAPD, who is rarely at the forefront of anything good, is actually starting to do good stuff by teaming social workers with cops for situations like this, though it would probably be a good thing for all officers to recieve some training like that as well as training for what doesn't work.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:30
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Dead Reckoning posted:Someone within arm's length holding a screwdriver definitely can be a threat. The reasonableness of perceiving them as a threat depends on the circumstances, but the fact that he didn't put the screwdriver down when they told him to and instead advanced towards them could be considered threatening. It's a sad, messed up situation. Apparently anyone that you think is physically intimidating can also be a threat even if they aren't holding onto a weapon. Hell, a weak person might be very intelligent, call out, and convince stronger people to come pummel you to death. Better start yelling at anything you think could be a threat and shoot it when it doesn't immediately do what you want. edit: here http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/family-releases-video-of-dallas-police-fatal-shooting-of-mental-patient.html/ Sounds like as usual they can justify what they did but took no steps to try to have the situation play out another way. Dum Cumpster fucked around with this message at 22:41 on Mar 17, 2015 |
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Mar 17, 2015 22:31
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Dum Cumpster posted:Apparently anyone that you think is physically intimidating can also be a threat even if they aren't holding onto a weapon. Now that doesn't mean they couldn't have handled it differently, they should have, but calling him unarmed is incorrect. A more valid question is did he use it as a weapon. That is much less clear.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:55
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nm posted:A screwdriver can gently caress someone up. I've seen a far share of adw screwdriver. A well placed one can kill and a poorly placed one can ruin your week or function of a limb. It is a reasonably common carried weapon because unlike a knife or a gun, it won't get you arrested. It is also reasonable to carry in your home for literally any reason, such as moving it from place to place, actually using it as a screwdriver, using it to mix yourself a screwdriver because you just read about police in America, etc.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:05
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nm posted:He is holding a weapon. A screwdriver is a fairly common weapon. Yeah I'm not trying to say that this guy wasn't armed, just that it was handled really poorly. I just found what Dead Reckoning said to be particularly dumb and was arguing against that line of reasoning.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:06
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If he had a handgun he'd be protected by the 2ND AMENDMENT but a screwdriver doesn't qualify 
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Mar 17, 2015 23:09
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Dead Reckoning posted:Someone within arm's length holding a screwdriver definitely can be a threat. The reasonableness of perceiving them as a threat depends on the circumstances, but the fact that he didn't put the screwdriver down when they told him to and instead advanced towards them could be considered threatening. It's a sad, messed up situation.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:11
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Dum Cumpster posted:http://crimeblog.dallasnews.com/2015/03/family-releases-video-of-dallas-police-fatal-shooting-of-mental-patient.html/ According to that link, the police were called because the son was off his medication, making threats and behaving erratically. I'm certain that had an influence on how they reacted. That said, I'd agree that this is a situation where non-lethal force would have been better. nm posted:The problem here, regardless of whether the shoot was "good" is that the police have become the first point of contact for any mental illness situation.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:23
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Guy that you just shot is laying on the ground and dying, what do you do? Offer aid and comfort? cops posted:He's still hot, he's still alive.
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Mar 17, 2015 23:48
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The "problem" is that the cops loving murdered a mentally ill person and there are still people who find the language, not to mention the gall, to defend it.
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Mar 18, 2015 02:46
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Pohl posted:Guy that you just shot is laying on the ground and dying, what do you do? Answer : Anything you can to make the after-action report look justified.
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Mar 18, 2015 08:44
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Dead Reckoning posted:According to that link, the police were called because the son was off his medication, making threats and behaving erratically. I'm certain that had an influence on how they reacted. That said, I'd agree that this is a situation where non-lethal force would have been better. you might want to read the article again, the cops said the mother called cause he was making violent threats the mother claims he had never had a history of violence, she claims she called the cops "to ask the police for help bringing her son, who was bipolar and schizophrenic, to Parkland Hospital. He was in a crisis because he was off his medication".
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Mar 18, 2015 08:59
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Liquid Communism posted:Answer : When officers break down and start crying after they kill someone I can feel bad for them; their training and the expectations they live with everyday reinforce every horrible outcome that is possible. Somehow, these guys managed to joke and then realize how horrible they were, so they said on tape that they shouldn't talk about it anymore. Did they feel bad? From that video I would say that they didn't give a poo poo. Not at all. Not one loving poo poo. They killed a man and rather than feeling torn by the fact, they seemed completely nonchalant.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:47
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Condiv posted:you might want to read the article again, the cops said the mother called cause he was making violent threats Did she look particularly worried when she walked out of the the house? No, she walked out perfectly calm, yet frustrated. She wasn't scared of her son, she was tired of his behavior. The difference is huge. You can't tell me the cops didn't see her walk calmly out while bitching up a storm, and catch a clue.
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Mar 18, 2015 12:54
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Pohl posted:Did she look particularly worried when she walked out of the the house? No, she walked out perfectly calm, yet frustrated. She wasn't scared of her son, she was tired of his behavior. The difference is huge. You can't tell me the cops didn't see her walk calmly out while bitching up a storm, and catch a clue. she even begs them not to shoot just a second before they do
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Mar 18, 2015 14:37
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That kid that the cops literally rolled up on and killed wasn't even "murder." There is pretty much no way for it to be applicable to the police since there is always the smallest possibility that a citizen could harm them so any proactive defense is legitimate and cowards who are scared of changing anything can claim that the system is fine and nothing is wrong. It's the status quo and no politician of note seems interested in changing it. Cops aren't supposed to be murder bots and even if they shouldn't be the first line when dealing with mentally unstable people, the fact that they go straight to kill shots is wrong and not something that we just have to grimly accept in order to protect officers (well we DO but we shouldn't).
Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Mar 18, 2015 |
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Mar 18, 2015 14:39
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I asked yesterday, but why didn't they use their tasers instead of their handguns? This type of situation is exactly what they're meant for.
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Mar 18, 2015 14:50
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blunt for century posted:I asked yesterday, but why didn't they use their tasers instead of their handguns? This type of situation is exactly what they're meant for. This is my big question, whether the shooting was justified or not (the video doesn't show the shooting at all) it was totally unnecessary for things to unfold that way.
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Mar 18, 2015 14:55
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blunt for century posted:I asked yesterday, but why didn't they use their tasers instead of their handguns? This type of situation is exactly what they're meant for. tasers are for unarmed people you want to torture, cops apparently consider them and pepperspray useless for anything else
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Mar 18, 2015 15:30
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Jarmak posted:This is my big question, whether the shooting was justified or not (the video doesn't show the shooting at all) it was totally unnecessary for things to unfold that way. are you watching the same video as everyone else? it most certainly does show the shooting https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cOfJcYUlqjo i mean the cop covers his cam up with his arm afterwards but yeah you can see the exact moment when he's shot
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Mar 18, 2015 15:35
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Dead Reckoning posted:Someone within arm's length holding a screwdriver definitely can be a threat. The reasonableness of perceiving them as a threat depends on the circumstances, but the fact that he didn't put the screwdriver down when they told him to and instead advanced towards them could be considered threatening. It's a sad, messed up situation. There are no murders by the police in America. Only regrettable deaths.
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Mar 18, 2015 16:34
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