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Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME
Looks like the narrative's already been changed to "reaching for the officer's gun":

quote:

While on the ground,suspect and #lapd officers struggled over one of officer's handgun at which point an officer involved shooting occurred

Since this is supposed to be about worldwide police issues, let's bring up a couple from the UK. Last year was a record breaker for police complaints, either due to a change in what the regulatory commission could examine, or knock-on effects from the US scandals.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/feb/02/police-complaints-rise-15-percent-in-a-year

quote:

The Metropolitan police, the UK’s largest force, had the most complaint cases made against it last year, with 7,115, IPCC figures show. It was followed by Greater Manchester police (1,536), West Midlands police (1,473), Devon and Cornwall police (1,364) and Kent police (1,200).

The largest percentage increase in complaint cases, year on year, was recorded by Northumbria police, which went from 401 complaints to 794, a rise of 98%, followed by City of London police, where complaints rose 90% from 123 to 234 between 2012/13 and 2013/14.

Dame Anne Owers, the IPCC chair, said the 15% rise in complaints “would not be a cause for concern if it reflected a greater public confidence in the complaints system or improved access to it. This is unlikely to be the case. The rising number of complaints makes it all the more important that the system is, and is seen to be, fair, accessible and transparent. Better public confidence in policing crucially depends on confidence that, where things may have gone wrong, appropriate action will be taken as soon as possible.

“It is clear from these statistics that forces still struggle to get it right first time, and there are now serious questions about whether they get it right the second time either. We will continue to work with them to improve complaints handling. But that is not enough. We urgently need radical reforms to the system as a whole, to make it more accessible and straightforward, and to strengthen independent oversight. That is why the current review of the system is welcome and overdue.”

Oxford joins the list of areas with a history of covering up child abuse because doing your job is hard regrettable failures in procedure which have since been rectified.

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/01/gangs-abused-hundreds-of-oxfordshire-children-serious-case-review

quote:

Police and social services in Oxfordshire will be heavily criticised for not doing enough to stop years of violent abuse and enslavement of six young girls, aged 11-15, by a gang of men. Such was the nature of the abuse, suffered for more than eight years by the girls, it was likened to torture. All of the victims had a background in care.

A serious case review by the Oxfordshire safeguarding children’s board, to be published on Tuesday, will condemn Thames Valley police for not believing the young girls, for treating them as if they had chosen to adopt the lifestyle, and for failing to act on repeated calls for help.

Oxfordshire social services – which had responsibility for the girls’ safety – will be equally damned for knowing they were being groomed and for failing to protect them despite compelling evidence they were in danger. One social worker told a trial that nine out of 10 of those responsible for the girls was aware of what was going on.
[...]
The case echoes the child exploitation scandals in Rotherham, Rochdale and Derby involving gangs of men of Asian background targeting white girls in care. In Oxford, however, the grooming, sexual torture and trafficking took place on the streets of the Cowley area of the city, in churchyards, parks, a guesthouse and empty flats procured for the purpose of drugging the girls and handing them around to be gang raped and brutalised.

A 12-year-old victim was branded by the men and, when she fell pregnant, subjected to a backstreet abortion in a house in Reading. Over six years, she was repeatedly raped by groups of men in what she described as “torture sex”.

Key findings in the serious case review will expose how police officers and social workers did not listen to the girls when they spoke of the abuse they were suffering, did not believe them and dismissed them.

The girls and some of their abusers crossed the police and social services radar multiple times. In 2006 alone, the police received four complaints from the young girls about the men, with their accounts corroborated in some cases. One victim reported the abuse twice to police in 2006. She told officers: “They are doing it to other girls, little girls with their school uniforms on.”

There were thousands of contacts between both agencies and the girls and they were reported missing at least 450 times. One victim, known as Girl C, has spoken of how her foster mother reported her missing 80 times.

The number of young people identified by the report – more than 300 – as victims of child sexual exploitation in the last 15 years is considered a robust figure because the girls have all been spoken to by police or social services.

But the numbers are likely to be an underestimate. Figures from Thames Valley police reveal that 220 of the 2,000 child abuse cases reported across the force in 13 months from July 2013 to August 2014 involved child sexual exploitation.

And lastly an old story, mostly to give a bit of context on the differences in policing over here, controversy over police in Inverness carrying guns on duty. Whole article is worth a read, has some good statistics and info on police firearms use.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-28656324

quote:

In addition, Dr Mick North, whose five-year-old daughter Sophie died at Dunblane Primary in 1996, hit out at the force for citing the tragedy in support of its policy. He said changes to the system would not have helped as "the incident was all over in three minutes".

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Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Demon Of The Fall posted:

I really don't know how you can reach or struggle for a gun with multiple grown men on your back and being tazed at the same time, that's just me though.

If the four grown men rely on pointing guns and yelling rather than armlocks, maybe. I remember getting out of being wrassled to the ground when I was about 12 by three or four of my friends, because they weren't very enthusiastic and got in each others' way.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Cichlid the Loach posted:

I don't even know what to say about this. I'm afraid to even open my mouth because what's going to come out is going to be a bunch of dry-heaving and incoherent screaming. Maybe that's what they were counting on. That the scale of of the brutality inflicted and their staggering failure/complicity in it would just render people beyond the capacity for coherent criticism.

It's what a massive institutional and cultural failure looks like. It's understandable that the officers and social workers involved had a hard time believing the stories of the girls - after, it's hard for us to believe it. If you're in a culture that doubts victims of rape, and writes off young people in care as lost causes, insane sounding stories are going to get lost in the white noise of crazy poo poo you have to deal with every day. Targeted by muslim rape gangs? :rolleyes: I'll get right on that after I find that baby that was stolen by gypsies.

What makes it unforgivable is the failure to write up reports or collate data on a basic level, especially in the digital age when it's piss easy to do. If you have multiple, unconnected youths coming forward with stories that match up, there's a pattern that can't be ignored.

Connected to the current discussion, here's an old bbc article on why the British police don't go armed, along with a silly quote from an American officer.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-19641398 posted:

What does a British police officer do if someone comes out with a knife? Is he supposed to get out his knife and fight him?

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Forums Terrorist posted:

lmao if american cops are bitch made enough that you can't handle a guy with a knife with nothing but a club and gumption.

I like the implication that the cop should pull a gun if the other guy pulls a knife. The American police attitude to me seems to be to escalate force until either the suspect capitulates entirely or is completely incapacitated. Which is the opposite of what should be done; no-one in a rational frame of mind thinks that attacking a cop would do them any good, therefore the first step is to try to put them back into a rational frame of mind.

Back to the cavalcade of horrors that is Oxford.

:nms: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2015/mar/03/professionals-blamed-oxfordshire-girls-for-their-sexual-abuse-report-finds :nms:

I advise those of a nervous disposition not to read further.

Don't say I didn't warn you posted:

Police and social workers in Oxfordshire perceived that girls as young as 11 had consented to sex with men, an independent report into the failure to stop their exploitation has said.

Throughout their interactions with six young girls in Oxford, professionals struggled with the law on consent, failing to understand that such was the power of the grooming process the children had no power to say no to gang rape, sexual torture and violence.

The serious case review, commissioned by Maggie Blyth, independent chair of the Oxfordshire safeguarding children board, said there were grounds for believing that 373 girls had been sexually exploited across Oxfordshire in the past 15 years.

One police officer recorded that a 13-year-old having sex with an older Asian man was in an “age-appropriate relationship”. Another sergeant described how a 14-year-old girl had initiated sexual intercourse with two men. Social workers, the report said, appeared to tolerate the under-age sex the girls were having with much older men.

The report called on the government to examine whether its guidance on the age of consent fed attitudes that made it easier for perpetrators to abuse victims.

“The overall problem was not grasping the nature of the abuse – the grooming, the pull from home, the erosion of consent, the inability to escape and the sheer horror of what the girls were going through – but of seeing it as something done more voluntarily. Something that the girls did as opposed to something done to them,” the report said.
[...]
The report said key failings by police and social workers included:

A culture of denial;
Blaming the girls for their precocious and difficult behaviour;
Blaming the girls for putting themselves at risk of harm;
Tolerance of underage sexual activity by the girls with older men;
A failure to recognise the girls had been groomed and violently controlled.
Such was the nature of the sexual exploitation and abuse suffered by the girls, who all had backgrounds in care, that it was likened to torture. The abuse took place in Oxford, in a guest house or in parks and churchyards, and the girls were plied with drugs and subjected to gang rape and sexual atrocities for more than eight years between 2004 and 2012.

The report highlighted multiple missed opportunities by Thames Valley police and Oxfordshire social services to act rigorously.

These included a neighbourhood city council official who in February 2007 raised concerns with senior police officers and children’s social services manages about a 13-year-old girl. He reported “men going into the flat every night” and said he saw the child lying under a cover with an adult male. But he was reprimanded by city council officials after an intervention by the head of child social care in Oxfordshire county council – who was not named in the report. The then director of children’s services in the council – also not named in the report - was copied into the emails.

Not to worry, though. We can put it all behind us and there is no reason for heads to roll among dedicated public servants who did what they thought was best at the time.

quote:

Despite damning findings in the 114-page report, no one has been disciplined or sacked over the child protection failures.
[...]
The report failed to hold any senior managers or directors accountable, saying there was no evidence of “wilful professional misconduct” and senior managers were not made aware of what was going on. Instead she blamed lack of knowledge and understanding and organisational failings.

Middle managers in social services, however, gave evidence that they were afraid to escalate concerns amid an “oppressive culture” within the council at the time.

None whatsoever

Next week's nightmare schedule posted:

:nms:
"I went to the police, blood all over me, soaked through my trousers to the crotch. They dismissed it as me being naughty"
-Sex abuse victim

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
FUN TIME

Dead Reckoning posted:

I don't know where you think the military is keeping this highly trained division of conflict de-escalation experts, but I haven't met any of them yet. Putting a whole lot of bullets in someone is among the less destructive ways the military responds to holstile actions or intentions.

Using the military as a police force is one of the prime reasons the Iraqi and Afghan insurgencies gathered so much popular support - the primary purpose of an army is (theoretically) bringing about peace rather than maintaining it.

Calls to bring in the army during the London riots were slapped down pretty hard by academics, military and police officers, since no-one wanted Royal Irish Constabulary Reserve Force 2011 Edition: 2Black 2Tan.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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I said "theoretically" to sidestep this argument, but your point is valid. Armies do not exist for peacetime, except as an implicit threat - peace through superior firepower.

Military force starts at "threaten to kill a dude" and rapidly escalates to "kill thousands of dudes with high explosives". It's an achievement if you only kill people who you want to kill. The fact that American police tactics start at gun-waving and threats is the problem.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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Zwabu posted:

I have to wonder what the odds are that the cop's lawyer in the Walter Scott case can somehow finagle an all white jury and sell them an acquittal. I'm sure there must be high profile lawyers salivating to make a big splash getting this guy off.

He's already lost one lawyer, because either a) he lied to his lawyer about what happened, b) his lawyer realized there was no way in hell to make this case or c) the cop decided he'd need a much, much better lawyer.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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Reason posted:

I think its pretty telling that in most of the UK police officers do not normally carry guns and their wiki page for police killings is one page, where on the US page it has to be broken down by year, though it appears to be pretty incomplete, probably because there isn't really any sort of national data collection for police killings.

This is from a couple of pages back, but I'd like to tag this in to an "interesting" (horrible) section of British and Irish history. Note that the list is incomplete, as it contains only a few of the killings committed by British police/RIC/RUC during the Irish War of Independence and The Troubles of Northern Ireland.

Those are a completely different kettle of fish, however, as on both of those occasions police units were operating alongside the army. It's difficult to tell whether more killings were done by the army or the police in each of those cases, and the line between the two breaks down at several points.

But turn your eyes to the number of dead in the Irish war of independence. Wikipedia lists the dead as roughly 550 Republican combatants, 700 police and army combatants, and 750 civilians. Even if we attribute a vast majority of civilian deaths to official British forces, that leaves us with a number roughly equal to the estimate of those killed by American police in a year.

In other words, it's probably wrong to say that American police have killed more people in a year than the British have in the past century. :)

They are, on the other hand, comparable to British police units operating during open warfare or decades long anti-terrorist campaigns. This includes the Black and Tans, the most notorious bunch of raping, pillaging, murdering bastards ever to wear a police uniform in the history of the British isles.

If anyone wants, I'll try to do a writeup on the British police in Ireland, or don't get the police and army mixed up, fuckwits.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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Jarmak posted:

Yeah but this is kind of silly cause the population of Northern Ireland is like a third of just the state of Massachusetts.

chitoryu12 posted:

If you want to be pedantic, sure. But the United States police force is not currently fighting a guerrilla war against black people trying to rebel against the government and form an independent state. Not exactly the same kind of conflict.

I made my point badly, sorry. I was trying to compare the number of police killings in the US to an actual goddamn war, and the Irish independence war was the best comparison I could make based on the level of police involvement.

Oh, and the 1919-22 conflict was fought over all of Ireland, not just the north.
:hist101::hf::goonsay:

edit: But yeah, statistically it's complete bullshit. Dunno what I was trying to prove.

Murderion fucked around with this message at 17:36 on Apr 10, 2015

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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Vahakyla posted:

Lol there is at least one city in South Carolina with cops that earn 9.50 an hour.


They do pay for the academy, so many just ditch and run.

This is the sort of thing that organised statistics on police shootings would be useful for - comparing the amount a cop gets paid with likelihood to be involved in a shooting. Are there any statistics gathered on American police performance that isn't K/D ratio?


GreyPowerVan posted:

I would unironically kill for $11 an hour, that's probably more than I will make starting off at DHR.

Would you prefer your victim to be fleeing, prone or armed with a wiffle bat? This is important.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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tentative8e8op posted:

Yeah, it sounds like he was an insurance executive who literally bought his badge.

The British army stopped letting rich idiots buy ranks almost 150 years ago, precisely because of this sort of stupidity. It's not good when you're lagging behind the British "if we hosed up when we hosed you up, it's because we didn't gently caress hard enough" Empire at the height of it's fuckery.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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From a link there, more from St Louis: http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/10/3643582/worse-ferguson-week-st-louis-countys-egregious-night-courts/

quote:

The municipal court systems in which Bailey was entangled generate a huge amount of revenue by ticketing people just like him: Calverton Park, where nearly one-quarter of the population lives below the poverty line, collects 66 percent of its general revenue from court fines and fees; Vinita Terrace, where close to 20 percent of residents live under the poverty line, brings home close to 60 percent of its revenue in fines and fees; and Normandy, with 35 percent of its residents living in poverty, collects just north of 40 percent of its revenue in fines and fees.
...
Predatory ticketing practices in some of the county’s majority-poor, black neighborhoods range from the egregious to the Dickensian. Thomas Harvey, one of the co-founders of ArchCity Defenders, a St. Louis nonprofit law firm that represents indigent and low-income clients, described a case that has yet to be verified by court and police records, with a client who says she called police to report domestic abuse against her boyfriend and child’s father. When the police arrived at her apartment, she says they ran her license and discovered that she had warrants on unpaid traffic tickets. Instead of arresting her abuser, the woman claims the police arrested her and left her two-year-old child at home, alone, with her boyfriend.
“So why would that woman ever call the police?” Harvey wondered. “If you can’t even call the police when you’re reporting domestic violence because of fear that you’re going to be arrested for a traffic ticket, why would you ever call?”
...
Edmundson, where nearly one-fifth of the population lives below the poverty level, collects almost 35 percent of its general revenue from court fines and fees. Ticketing was such an important part of the town’s income that the mayor distributed a friendly note in some police officers’ paychecks, reminding them: “The tickets that you write do add to the revenue on which the P.D. budget is established and will directly affect pay adjustments at budget time.”.

:stonk:

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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Cichlid the Loach posted:

"He made an error," [Sheriff Stanley] Glanz said. "How many errors are made in an operating room every week?"

"Scalpel on the left, bonesaw on the right. Scalpel on the left, bonesaw on the right. Scalpel on the right, bonesaw on the ahh poo poo not again."

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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The only time that's left is
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Awesome, that means the guys getting disappeared now should expect a payout around 2050. PROgress:suicide:

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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Oopsy daisy! :iamafag:

quote:

The FBI has admitted "errors" in evidence provided by its forensics laboratory to US courts to help secure convictions, including in death penalty cases, over more than 20 years.

A report by the Office of the Inspector General (OIG) noted "irregularities" in the hair analysis unit.

More detail on the cases affected is expected later from campaign groups.

Flawed forensics were used in at least 60 capital punishment cases, the OIG report found.

Fourteen defendants were either executed or died in prison, says the Washington Post, which first reported the story at the weekend.

The review of cases was prompted by the Post's 2012 story that three men were wrongly placed at the scene of violent crimes by the unit's hair analysts, raising the possibility of hundreds of unsafe convictions.

The WP's more thorough report: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local...c310_story.html

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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They've copped to it and are three years into the process of reviewing thousands of past cases, which is better than clearing themselves of all wrongdoing after a cursory investigation. :shrug:

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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I thought that was the number of times you could fit Finland into Jupiter.

Which also has a lower rate of police shootings than the US.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

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quote:

"I was watching Erin's show last night, and I was livid," she told him. "I have to say, you’re a leader. And so many people have said, don’t say it in rap, don’t say it so loosely, don’t assume you can say it because you’re one color and another color can’t."

City Councilman Carl "Countin' Dollas" Stokes, called out on his hip-hop career, explains that "thug" has poor flow.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

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Cichlid the Loach posted:

My favorite one was from a report, I don't remember which incident it was, that said the suspect struggled or whatever, "at which point an officer-involved shooting occurred." Verbatim. drat these free-floating officer-involved shootings, spontaneously coalescing on top of these fine upstanding officers!

I got that feeling in my bones, Billy. Lock up the dogs and tell yer sisters to get inside, there's an officer-involved shooting rolling in on the nor'wester.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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happyhippy posted:

Going to be fun now watching which cop breaks first for the shortest plea deal.

Six people pointing at each of the others being the instigator is going to get real ugly, reaaal fast.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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mlmp08 posted:

Nah, I'm firmly of the belief that there are really good unions and really bad unions, that the existence of unions in general is a Good Thing.

I'm thinking back to the police officer's bill of rights that was posted a while back, and what strikes me is that it's a very good set of rules for dealing with disciplinary procedures against an employee. If I was, say, to be accused by a member of the public of insulting them, or accused of misusing office equipment, then it would be good to have a union official present for the disciplinary proceedings. I would also expect that my name not be revealed if I was cleared of wrongdoing.

Where this breaks down is where it goes beyond civil matters between an employee and employer, and into criminal matters. If I were accused of punching someone in the face or smashing up company property, while I would still expect to be treated the same in disciplinary proceedings within the company, I would not have that privilege with regards to a criminal investigation. While it would be good if my union could speak on my behalf or help me with legal matters, I wouldn't expect them to have any power over criminal justice system. There is a clear boundary, at least in theory, between civil matters a union is designed to help with, and criminal matters where its powers are limited.

The problem with prosecuting police, so far as I can make out, is that the employer who carries out disciplinary proceedings is also the body that determines whether a criminal act has occurred. The American police union, in many cases, is given the same degree of power in protecting its members from criminal prosecution as it is from internal disciplinary action.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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The problem here is the bail in the other case, not the bail in the case of the officers. It does seem like a fair amount, considering there's no chance in hell they're running anywhere but protective custody with their faces plastered all over the news.

I looked for Mosby's account of what happened online, and the nyt has a good timeline: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/30/us/what-happened-freddie-gray-arrested-by-baltimore-police-department-map-timeline.html

quote:

Stop No. 4
Ms. Mosby said Officer Goodson was met here by Officers Nero, Miller and Porter. Sgt. Alicia White and Officers Porter and Goodson observed “Mr. Gray unresponsive on the floor,” Ms. Mosby said. Sergeant White spoke to the back of Mr. Gray’s head, and he did not respond. “Despite Mr. Gray’s seriously deteriorating medical condition, no medical assistance was rendered or summoned for Mr. Gray at that time by any officer,” Ms. Mosby said. The additional prisoner was loaded into the van on the opposite side. For the fifth time, according to Ms. Mosby, Officer Goodson failed to restrain Mr. Gray with a seatbelt.

Jesus Christ that whole thing. They checked on him a total of three loving times after throwing him into the back of the van shackled with no seatbelt. The second time he stated he couldn't breathe, the third time (when they picked up the second prisoner), he was unconscious/unresponsive on the floor.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Samurai Sanders posted:

Hm...so given how that works, it's too much to ask for judge A to consider judge B's bail amounts before deciding theirs, including on closely related cases like this?

Presumably, yes, but the issue is that the rioters' bail amounts should be lowered, not that the officers' bail should be raised.

STAC Goat posted:

Megan Kelly is currently interviewing an anonymous Baltimore officer giving the cops "side of the story." He/she is wearing a hood, is a dark silhouette, and had a Darth Vader voice. If Fox News was trying to make this seem insidious and evil to discredit it I wouldn't be able to tell the difference.

The "cops side" seems to be "eh, we always ignore people asking for help or saying they're hurt so no big deal" and "Freddie did it to himself." Eye opening.

"It's protocol to put on a seatbelt but sometimes the prisoner spits and makes things uncomfortable so we don't."

Literally, the defense is "my job is hard and inconvenient so some times I half rear end it." They're children.

The defense is that they should be held to lower standards of the law because ???

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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SpeedGem posted:

Here is another good one.

Hidden Camera Catches NYPD Cops Arresting Man For No Reason, “I Don’t Even Know Why we Pulled Him Over”

http://www.surenews.com/controversial/hidden-camera-catches-nypd-cops-arresting-man-for-no-reason-making-up-purpose-for-stopping-him/

All the more reason to buy a dashcam for my car. "What should we charge him with?" bob says as he takes a swig, "I dunno jimbob, make something up."

The police are trapped in a Kafkaesque nightmare, making stops and arrests for reasons incomprehensible to them. Blown from hither to yon by the winds of fate, occasionally they ask "why? Why did we do this? What makes us act this way?"

The answers are not forthcoming. The question is eventually forgotten, lost among a thousand less important questions. Later, an officer involved shooting occurs. No officers were involved.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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-Troika- posted:

How does each version of this thread manage to be worse than the previous one?

USPol sold us a bunch of shitposts on the cheap as a result of anti-terror legislation.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Samurai Sanders posted:

That makes a lot of sense for everything except smoking, I think. People who are hopelessly addicted to that don't seem any less happy or connected than anyone else.

Since smoking is a very social practice, it's arguable that it stems from a desire to connect socially - I took up smoking to avoid being left with the drinks when my friends went out to the smoking area. Because the social stigma is far less than other drugs, the level of isolation occurring as both a cause and a consequence of addiction is far lower.

Nicotine also has a biological addiction factor on a par with far stronger drugs, so the push/pull of giving up is far harder to overcome.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

The only time that's left is
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1337JiveTurkey posted:

The MoJo article doesn't explain that there's prohibited and restricted categories. Here's the report: https://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/le_equipment_wg_final_report_final.pdf

This matters because some things like wheeled armored/tactical vehicles are restricted while some things like tracked ones are prohibited. Other notable prohibited items include camouflage, bayonets, grenade launchers and vehicles capable of mounting a weapon. Restricted means that they need to provide specific situations where they'll use it and to what purpose along with training and documentation of significant incidents where they use the equipment. Any riot gear is restricted, as are pyrotechnics and breaching apparatus.

Thanks for that, I was a bit puzzled when I saw battering rams on the list, as those are in common police use worldwide.

A couple of things that caught my eye:

quote:

RECOMMENDATION 2.3 — AFTER‐ACTION REVIEW:    (1) LEAs must collect and retain
“Required Information” (described below) when law enforcement activity that involves a
“Significant Incident” requires, or results in, the use of any Federally‐acquired controlled
39
equipment in the LEA’s inventory (or any other controlled equipment in the same category
as the Federally‐acquired controlled equipment).  (2) When unlawful or inappropriate police
actions are alleged and trigger a Federal compliance review, and the Federal agency
determinesthat controlled or prohibited equipment was used in the law enforcement activity
under review, the LEA must produce or generate a report(s) containing Required Information.
 “Significant Incident” Defined:  Any law enforcement operation or action that involves
(a) a violent encounter among civilians or between civilians and the police; (b) a use‐of‐
force that causes death or serious bodily injury28; (c) a demonstration or other public
exercise of First Amendment rights; or (d) an event that draws, or could be reasonably
expected to draw, a large number of attendees or participants, such as those where
advanced planning is needed.
 “Required Information” to Be Collected and Retained:  (a) Identification of controlled
equipment used (e.g., categories and number of units of controlled equipment used,
make/model/serial number); (b) description of the law enforcement operation involving
the controlled equipment; (c) identification of LEA personnel who used the equipment
and, if possible, civilians involved in the incident; and (d) result of controlled equipment
use (e.g., arrests, use‐of‐force, victim extraction, injuries).   

Required record keeping seems to be pretty important. Getting caught in a lie also screws the department over and opens it up for punishment.

Another point of interest:

quote:

For Programmatic Violations.    For violations of any programmatic term or condition
related to controlled equipment (e.g., failure to adopt required protocols, unauthorized
transfers), the LEA will be suspended from acquiring additional controlled equipment
through Federal programs for a minimum of 60 days.  The suspension will continue until
the Federal agency determines that the violation has been corrected.    This does not
prohibit a Federal agency from imposing other applicable sanctions according to
applicable program parameters.
 Statutory Violations.  For alleged violations of law, including civil rights laws, the matter
will be referred for investigation to the Federal agency’s Office of Civil Rights (OCR) or
other appropriate compliance office, or the U.S. Department of Justice.    If the
investigation results in a finding that the LEA violated a civil rights or other relevant
statute, the LEA will be sanctioned according to statute and/or the Federal agency’s
governing rules and policies.  At a minimum, the LEA will be suspended from acquiring
additional controlled equipment through Federal programs for a minimum of 60 days.  
The suspension will last until the Federal agency determines that the violation has been
corrected.

Summed up - you can have your supply lines choked off for loving up. gently caress up handling protests? If you run out of riot gear you'll have to contact other departments or the national guard. Same with helicopters, MRAPS, and whatever other masturbatory aids you need to fight a drug dealer with a switchblade.

The big problem here is that it doesn't deal with equipment currently in use, and it doesn't give the feds authority to confiscate gear that's being misused, although that might be covered by existing legislation.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Anora posted:

Helicopters have actual practical uses, and I'd hate to see those get banned. They're pretty invaluable for search and rescue. At least the little ones we have now, if they get an apachee or start sniping suspects from inside the copter, that would be different.

The supply is based on utility to the department, so there's very little chance a request for a police copter would be turned down. There's almost no chance it would be taken away, and if a department needs one while under suspension there ought to be a few arrangements made.

It does mean you'll have to get your application for The Rook in before October 1st, though. Order early to avoid disappointment!

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Drunk in Space posted:

That footage is completely baffling. According to the article he hit a sign and another vehicle before coming to a stop. Doesn't that make it an accident scene? Is it normal for the police to roll up to an accident scene with guns drawn? Jesus could you even imagine that? Like, you're sitting there injured and in shock and suddenly there's some rear end in a top hat criminal pointing a gun at your face. Oh, it's a cop.

It seems to come from a well of bizarre paranoia towards (black) citizens - every suspect is violent, everyone is a hair's breadth away from pulling a knife or a gun on you. Cars are fortresses with guns hidden in the glovebox and under the seats. Every crime, no matter how small, is a crime of malice against not just the state but civilization itself, the first shot fired in the war that drags humanity into barbarism.

In other news, British police are racist, but trying to get better! :gbsmith:

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/may/24/police-didnt-see-deen-as-victim-bristol-hate-crime

quote:


‘The police didn’t see Deen as a victim despite blood pouring out of his head’

One August evening, in Brue Close, a housing estate in Weston-super-Mare, police and emergency services were called to No 39. Two police cars, a police van, a dog and several officers arrived. They saw a crowd of hostile white adults, “an angry mob” and a middle-aged black man standing in his front garden bleeding profusely from a head wound. His five-year-old daughter was distraught. The emergency services were responding to two separate reports. The first came from Kim Jones, the tenant at No 39, requesting urgent help for her partner, Tajudeen “Deen” Taiwo. She said he had been the victim of a racial assault. His head had been banged against a wall, cracking it open. The second call said a black man had a knife.

What subsequently unfolded is to become part of an innovatory attempt by Avon and Somerset police to challenge police behaviour and attitudes that consciously or otherwise sanction hate crime. Following his arrest, a publicly humiliated Taiwo was taken to hospital in handcuffs to have his head wound treated. He needed 14 stitches. He was kept in custody for 35 hours in total and charged with a number of offences, including possession of an offensive weapon and threats to kill while his family, which includes two boys from an earlier relationship of Jones’s, were left without support on an estate with hostile neighbours.

It took three years of struggle, a flawed internal police inquiry that revealed officers’ complete ignorance of the force’s own hate policy and inept disciplinary procedures before Avon and Somerset police finally accepted culpability for its discriminatory behaviour and made a public apology, paid compensation and made a commitment to involve the family in an overhaul of its training procedure. Part of that overhaul includes the making of a documentary of Taiwo and Jones’s experience so that it can be used as a tool to tackle racism and prejudice in police ranks (this is the first time in Britain that the police have used this approach). Filming begins on Thursday. The impact of this new training approach will be monitored by the force for 12 months.

The documentary will be made by a team headed by former BBC Bristol-based film-maker Jon Mowat, executive producer Lynn Barlow (Anatomy of a Crime, for which she was series producer, is a multi-award-winning police documentary) and directed by Andy Mundy-Castle, who recently made African Masters, a series on contemporary African art for the Africa Channel, among other documentaries. The aim is for the documentary to have a wider audience with other police forces and public services, such as housing providers who work with the police to support victims of hate crime. “We are involving a psychologist in the making of the film because we want to find the most effective way to challenge stereotypes and a system of thought within some sectors of the police,” says Mowat. “We won’t use a dramatic reconstruction. Deen and Kim will tell their own story. It’s a horror story. That’s what will give emotional power to the training tools that go alongside the film.”

...

Somerset and Avon police currently has 18 police officers and civilians under investigation for matters relating to a single hate-crime case that led to the murder of a man. Alex Raikes of the Bristol charity Sari – Stand Against Racism and Inequality – says that it dealt with 550 cases of hate crime in the city last year. She predicts that the number will be significantly higher this year, influenced by an increase in “Islamaphobia”. Each case may cover a number of incidents. If those incidents aren’t properly investigated by the police because of its own bias, the injustice for the victim is doubled. “All we ever wanted was for the police to do a proper job,” Jones, 35, says. “To establish what really happened and why — to do the right thing.”

...

Taiwo’s job meant he had a company car. He reports that he was constantly stopped by the police, on one day, five times. “I got used to going to the station to produce his documents,” Jones says. On another occasion, they were pulled over in a garage. “Deen was approached by the police. They said he was an illegal immigrant and a wanted man. It was so scary. He’s a British citizen. The police had two riot vans and the name Dean. Eventually, they said, ‘Sorry, we’ve made a spelling error on your name.’”

In 2006, the couple moved back to Weston. Three years later, in 2009, Taiwo suffered a racist attack by two men. They broke his nose. A friend witnessed the assault. He was an off-duty community support officer. Taiwo says that this friend later told him that he had been told by colleagues that if he gave evidence, his job would suffer. The police took no statements, CCTV was lost and the case was not pursued. “They didn’t care. That hurt,” Taiwo says quietly. In the same year, the family moved to Brue Close. “It was a house with a garden. We thought we’d be happy.”

Initially, Scott, Taiwo’s stepson, now 20, became friends with another local teenager. “Scott was troubled because he kept hearing very racist language, including the n-word,” Jones says. “Then there was a racist incident with two little Chinese girls in the park and Scott told me about it and said, ‘That could have been my sister.’” The couple told Scott to end his friendship. Over the two years leading up to August 2012, the family experienced constant harassment and racial abuse. Taiwo’s car was scratched several times, his work van was shot at with an air rifle, nails found their way into his tyres and car windows were broken. There were disputes about parking. “I always said I wouldn’t retaliate,” Taiwo says. “I wouldn’t do anything until they came to my front door and came for my family. And one day, they did.”

On that day, 11 August 2012, one of Taiwo’s neighbours parked his motorbike directly next to his van, making it difficult to enter the vehicle. Taiwo moved the motorbike so he could open the van’s doors. Subsequently, the neighbour and a group of 10-15 adults came to No 39 and began to chant racial abuse. One said: “I’m going to kill you, you are going to take your last breath, n*****.” The neighbour slammed Taiwo’s head into the wall, causing a 10cm gash. Taiwo went into his kitchen and came back out with a knife, which he held up to protect himself and his five-year-old daughter, who had witnessed the assault on her father. “I thought they were going to attack my family,” he says. Jones phoned the emergency services and Taiwo returned the knife to the kitchen. When the police arrived, he was empty-handed and covered in blood.

PC Steve Faulkner approached Taiwo, and threatened him with a Taser. Taiwo explained he had got the wrong person. He said he had been the victim of a racially motivated assault. None of the officers listened to his account. None of the officers recorded his allegation for further investigation, as required by the force’s own policy on hate crime; no one else was interviewed or arrested. Taiwo was arrested, handcuffed and placed in a police vehicle to the sound of monkey noises. Another officer, Sergeant Gareth Starr, took a detailed account from Jones and assured her that her fears about her family’s safety would be dealt with later. No steps were taken. A neighbour and witness said that as Taiwo was driven away, she shouted: “You’ve got it wrong. You have got the wrong man.” Much later, witnesses say they saw the attack but they were too frightened of repercussions to come forward. The estate had a history of racial incidents and a BNP connection. Taiwo and Jones were tenants of Knightstone Housing Association. The association reported that many ethnic minority families “suffered abuse from other residents”.

Taiwo insisted on being taken to hospital to have his wound stitched. Initially, the police ordered that he remain in handcuffs but a doctor refused to attend to him unless he was released. He was subsequently taken to a magistrates court, released on bail and told not to return to his home. The evening of his arrest, Jones repeated her allegation that Taiwo had been a victim of a hate crime at Weston police station. She said there had been a history of racial violence towards her family and they were unsafe in the property. She was advised to move elsewhere “until the dust settled”. The police took no other steps to ensure the family was secure. The following day, Jones was informed by the housing association that her family would be evicted because her partner had been involved in a knife crime.

I've abridged it quite a bit, but the article is worth a read.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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It's notable that in the UK, protection of property does not give you grounds to shoot at minorities. Self defense is also not grounds for ownership of a firearm in Britain.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Dead Reckoning posted:

I think it’s crazy that a person can be held criminally liable for shooting at two people who indisputably broke into his home to rob him. I also disagree with the idea that a citizen should have to provide a “good reason” to the government in order to own things or do things, rather than the government having to provide a good reason (subject to judicial review) why they should not.

The government has failed to give a good reason that I should not own an attack helicopter, therefore...

There will always be a line on what the government should not allow private citizens to own, or should restrict ownership of. In the UK this line is set in a different place to the states. It's worth noting that "legitimate grounds" for ownership of a firearm includes sport and target shooting (ie for fun). You're just not allowed to own one for the express purpose of killing another human being, no matter how justified you may be at the time.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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FRINGE posted:

Plot twist! Its a police van.

Nope, according to the Graun feed: http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2015/jun/13/dallas-police-in-armoured-van-chase-after-shootings-rolling-coverage

quote:

It is believed that the van he is driving could be a vehicle sold on eBay earlier this month as a “Zombie Apocalypse Assault Vehicle and Troop Transport”.

“It’s full armor plated and has bullet proof windows just in case you run into other zombie hunting hordes who might try to take this bad boy from you,” the sale listing said.

quote:

“The suspect told our negotiators that we took his child and accused him of being a terrorist and that he is going to blow us up. Then [he] cut off negotiations,” Dallas police chief David Brown said at a press conference in the early morning.

"Call me a terrorist? I'll show them!" :shepface:

This is going to justify the Dallas PD buying all the A10 Warthogs retired by the F35.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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The only time that's left is
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As you know, Britain is a shining light of police practice in comparison with our colonial breth-lol jk they're just as evil:

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/...police_custody/

quote:

THE family of Sheku Bayoh have launched a campaign to demand answers over his death in police custody, following the emergence of disturbing new developments - including that he was not carrying a knife when apprehended by officers.

Bayoh, 31, was overpowered by police in Kirkcaldy, Fife, on May 3 and later died while in police custody. It had been claimed that officers were responding to reports of a suspect carrying a knife.

But yesterday solicitor Aamer Anwar revealed that the family of the father-of-two claimed to have discovered he was not carrying a knife when he was approached by police - who used CS spray and batons before pinning him to the ground.

Other facts surrounding Bayoh’s death, which Anwar and the family have uncovered, include details of how Bayoh who was 5ft 10in and weighed 12stone 10lbs was restrained by five officers “on top or around him”, including one officer who was over 6ft 4inches and weighed 25 stone.

Bayoh’s family also want Police Scotland chief Sir Stephen House to explain why the officers involved said they believed they were responding to a terrorist threat and whether that had any role in how he was treated.

...

Anwar described Bayoh, from Sierra Leone, as a “well-liked, healthy young man”, who had moved to Kirkcaldy when he was 17 to live with his sister Kadi.

His family say they have been told by friends of Bayoh that he was “not being himself” on the morning of his death, however they added that the trainee gas engineer had no history of violence.

Anwar said: “The family want to ask whether Sheku Bayoh would have died if he had not met the police.

“Twelve weeks on the family believe the answer to that question is no.”

He added: “I never knew Sheku Bayoh, he wasn’t rich or a powerful man but what I have learned in the 12 weeks since his death is that he has a stubborn family, who love him a great deal – three sisters, his mother, brother-in-law Adie and his partner Colette, who all refuse to be bullied, lied to or to be silenced.

“Six-month-old Isaac and four-year-old Tyler will never see their father Sheku again.”

Anwar said the family believed ‘negative imagery’ of Bayoh put out by police had been used to enforce an image of a “mad and dangerous” man.

But he said: “It has repeatedly been claimed that a 6ft plus male was brandishing a knife when the police arrived and the media was told early that morning a police officer had been stabbed.

“The family also claim they were told in the hours following Sheku’s death by a senior police officer that Sheku attacked a police woman with a knife, hence why CS spray and batons were used upon him.

“The family now know as a fact that when the police arrived Sheku Bayoh was not carrying no knife, he never threatened them with a knife, nor was one ever found on his body.”

Anwar also called for answers about why Bayoh was apparently viewed as a terrorist threat by some police officers.

He said: “The family of Sheku Bayoh want Chief Constable Stephen House to explain to them why his police officers in Fife believed that they were dealing with a terrorist threat and whether that had any role to play in Sheku Bayoh’s subsequent treatment.”

Ade Johnson, Bayoh’s brother- in-law, cited examples of previous cases of deaths at the hands of police, including Brazilian Jean Charles de Menezes who was shot dead ten years ago in London while making his way to work by officers who mistook him for a terror suspect in the wake of the 7-7 attacks.

He said: “In the UK at least thousands of police officers have been investigated for alleged assault, most of whom have not been suspended. What type of society are we in? Who polices the police? Who are the police accountable to?”

...

The event, organised jointly with Scotland Against Criminalising Communities, was also attended by other campaigners whose relatives have died while in police custody.

They included Janet Alder, the sister of Christopher Alder, 37, who choked to death on the floor of a Hull police station in April 1998, and Marcia Rigg, sister of Sean Rigg, who died after being restrained at Brixton police station, south London, in August 2008.

For context, Kirkaldy is not a big place even by Scottish standards, and there's no reason that there would be a terrorist threat there, ever. Another article (which I'm trying to dig up) has police returning to the station to meet with union reps immediately after dropping Mr Bayoh off at the hospital to die. It's a story that has been gaining traction for quite a while, but that article is a good introduction.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Police searching for floating disembodied hand, considered armed and dangerous.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

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Dahn posted:

While the officer was assisting a citizen with getting their license plate properly displayed, a mysterious shot rang out, tragically striking the citizen in the head. No stone will be left uncovered in the search to discover the origins of the unfortunately fatal discharge of some sort of a firearm.

Grassy knoll off to the left lookin' mighty suspicious, just saying.

All the news outlets I've seen have ditched "allegedly" from the shooting, although they try not to state directly that Tensing shot DuBose so often.

Meanwhile the corroborating officers are currently bricking it, and the Graun reports that they were no angels:

quote:

Two police officers who corroborated a seemingly false account of the fatal shooting of Samuel DuBose in Cincinnati were previously implicated in the death of an unarmed, hospitalised and mentally ill black man who died after he was “rushed” by a group of seven University of Cincinnati police officers.

Kelly Brinson, a 45-year-old mental health patient at Cincinnati’s University hospital, suffered a psychotic episode on 20 January 2010 and was placed inside a seclusion room at the hospital by UC officers. He was then shocked with a Taser three times by an officer and placed in restraints. The father of one – son Kelly Jr – then suffered a respiratory cardiac arrest and died three days later.

In court documents obtained by the Guardian and filed by Brinson’s family in a civil suit against UC police and the hospital, all seven officers are accused of using excessive force and “acted with deliberate indifference to the serious medical and security needs of Mr Brinson”.

...

The officers involved in his brother’s death were “supposed to be fired”, Brinson said. “But what happened was because we had an out-of-court settlement, they had immunity and they couldn’t be prosecuted.

“Everybody … associated with this case was supposed to be terminated,” he said. “And they didn’t – they didn’t terminate them.”

Brinson’s family settled a federal civil court case with the hospital and the police department for $638,000. All University of Cincinnati campus police officers were also removed from patrolling the psychiatric wards at the hospital after Brinson’s death.

...

Neither Kidd nor Weibel responded to requests for comment from the Guardian left at listed numbers.

Witness documents for the 2010 case show that it was a different officer who deployed the Taser against Brinson, but both Kidd and Weibel were involved in restraining him. In Weibel’s handwritten account of that incident, he stated that he had observed Brinson was “greatly agitated” after he was placed in a seclusion room and a request for leather restraints was made.

Following five minutes of discussion between hospital staff and Brinson, Weibel recalled that force then became “warranted” and he indicated to another officer “that I was going to rush the patient” as Brinson “turned his attention away”.

“At this point, without announcement, I quickly lundged [sic] at the patient,” Weibel wrote in block capital letters.

Brinson was then shocked with a Taser and placed in restraints, according to the complaint filed in US district court. Weibel wrote in his statement that he later observed Brinson was non-responsive and “had a blank stare on his face”, at which point a doctor was called.

According to Kidd’s deposition, he heard “grunts” coming from Brinson after the Taser was used. Kidd told attorneys he assisted in restraint by placing his elbow on Brinson’s jaw and his hand near his temple and face.

The University of Cincinnati police division declined to respond to a request for comment on the 2010 death.

You can now view the aftermath of DuBose's death in full 360o murdervision, with synchronised footage from Kidd & Lindenschmidt's cameras. Pay special attention to the serious damage caused to the back of Tensing's clothes.

Murderion fucked around with this message at 03:24 on Jul 31, 2015

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Genocide Tendency posted:

And thats still loving stupid. Might go to prison isn't justification to murder a cop. However gunning down a cop might make other cops a little more nervous about approaching a car they pulled over.

You don't think that nonviolent offenders being killed on traffic stops makes criminals more likely to draw first?

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

2019. New York is in ruins. The global economy is spiralling. Cyborgs rule over poisoned wastes.

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Hot off the gibbis press, the slendy stabbers are being tried as adults:

quote:

Two 13-year-old-girls accused of brutally stabbing a classmate to please make-believe horror character "Slender Man" will be charged as adults, a Wisconsin judge ruled on Monday.

The girls are each facing one count of attempted first-degree homicide, where they could face up to 65 years in prison if convicted as adults, according to the Associated Press. In the juvenile court system, the girls would only have been held for five years, until they turned 18.

NBC affiliate WTMJ reported Monday that the girls' attorneys said trying their clients in adult court would be cruel and unusual punishment, and argued that the teens would get better mental health treatment in the juvenile system.

The two Waukesha teens are accused of luring their friend to the woods in May 2014 where she was repeatedly stabbed in an effort to please the :spooky:fictional online ghoul Slender Man.:spooky:

According to interrogation tapes released by Waukesha Police, the two girls said they believed the Internet character could hurt them or their families if they didn't carry out the attack.

All three girls were 12-years-old at the time of the attack, in which the victim was stabbed 19 times but lived.

NBC News is not currently naming the suspects in case the trials are moved back to juvenile court, where proceedings are closed to the public.

I figured this comes under the "criminal justice" side of things.

Hilarity aside, what's the point in trying children as adults? I understand the horribly evil justifications for it, but is there any publicly stated reason beyond :byodood:TURF ON CRAME? Given their defense for doing this, it's pretty clear these kids were incapable of understanding what they were doing.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Devor posted:

They want to view the video so they can tailor their story to fit in the gaps in the video. If you know that no one's camera had a view of the subject's left hand, you can say he was making suspicious movements with it. If the video shows his hands were at his sides motionless, then you have to come up with a less plausible excuse for murdering him.

Or, more charitably, because they don't want to look stupid because they incorrectly recall exact details from a stressful situation. But in that case, they shouldn't try to put the details in a report if they aren't sure.

Or it could be that being constantly recorded will necessitate a complete change in how police carry themselves, even when not dealing with members of the public. Pretty much everyone in every profession moans, talks poo poo about their boss, or generally acts in an unprofessional manner when they think no-one's watching. Even if a cop is entirely on the level when dealing with the public, they'll probably talk completely differently when they're in the car with their partner. It's perfectly legitimate for the union to say that allowing time for training and adjustment for dealing with the fact that their boss can watch them every drat second they're on duty or that their random mid shift smack talk could become a matter of court record far more easily than before.

I know cop unions can be bad, but from what I can see in the article everything they're saying is valid.

Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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VitalSigns posted:

That's only because we aren't jailing enough people.

For example, if we jailed 100% of the people in prisons run by robots, the murder rate would be zero, now there's specific deterrence for you, suck it Norway.

And if 100% of people were robots, assault would be replaced with property damage! :pseudo:

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Murderion
Oct 4, 2009

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Meanwhile in :britain::

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/sep/21/policeman-who-accused-chiefs-of-bullying-sacked-over-mortgage

quote:

Ch Insp John Buttress, from Greater Manchester police, was dismissed from the force on Monday after being found guilty of gross misconduct at a police disciplinary tribunal, held behind closed doors.

A panel ruled that he had claimed a single person discount on two properties when he was only entitled to one discount, and of applying for the wrong sort of mortgage when he started to rent out his holiday home.

His sacking came nine months after he was cleared following a two-week trial at Liverpool crown court. After just 20 minutes of deliberation the jury found him not guilty of one charge of mortgage fraud following an investigation by colleagues from GMP.

Buttress, who was once so highly regarded within GMP that he appeared on recruitment posters, insisted he ended up in the dock only after he stood up to senior officers, whom he accused of bullying and persecution.

In an interview with the Guardian at the time, he accused certain people within GMP of waging “an orchestrated smear campaign” against him and said he had been “stitched up”.

Summary: senior copper speaks out about racism and discrimination in force, is then mysteriously tried for fraud. Found innocent in court, then gets fired by his force anyway for what is, absent of malice, probably a tax fuckup if it is indeed anything at all.

Of course, Manchester are capable of showing restraint over more minor offences, such as loving up so bad someone offs themselves:

quote:

Earlier this year GMP officers were disciplined, but not sacked, following the death of a 17-year-old boy. Joseph Lawton killed himself two days after being arrested and detained by GMP officers.

A report by the Independent Police Complaints Commission found failings in staff performance and evidence of “a concerning culture” within a GMP custody unit.

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