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Dr Pepper posted:Ok there's no way that some cop wasn't covering for their rapist friend. Oh ha ha, there's no need for police to have a personal stake in order to denigrate exploited girls!
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Mar 17, 2015 15:09
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Vahakyla posted:I like this binary world where it is only to kill or be killed. I guess people who are stopped by police should take that into consideration.
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Mar 18, 2015 23:22
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semper wifi posted:Then pick a shooting that isn't legit, already. Hardly anyone, not even DND posters, got up in arms about Eric Garner and he got strangled to death on camera, but a crazy guy rushing the cops with a screwdriver gets shot oh no kill the police eat the rich I love this series of totally incorrect impressions. Oddly enough my impression of responses at the time includes a fair amount of outrage and also a lot of police apologists talking about how it was Garner's fault for not assuming a compliant posture and tone of voice.
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Mar 18, 2015 23:25
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semper wifi posted:Bullshit dude, the Mike Brown thing's been going for like what, 7 months now? Complete with DOJ investigation of FPD, nation-wide outcry, and so on. I remember people talking about the Eric Garner thing for maybe 2-3 weeks. Same with that kid in Cleveland. e: Maybe it wasn't Cleveland, but the kid with the toy gun I mean. You're not making any sense. Are you talking about D&D or have you seamlessly transitioned to talking about the public at large? Because while D&D has discussed both incidents at length, the only reason Mike Brown and Ferguson has gotten more attention is because of the ensuing civil unrest. There was no massive community demonstration and police crackdown for Garner or Tamir Rice, hence they did not get the same level of sustained attention. Also your inability to recall Tamir Rice's name kind of undercuts your intent to chide us for having selective attention.
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Mar 18, 2015 23:52
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The entire concept of having to use a gun for defense against edged weapons is misguided and based on inadequate training. If police knew how to use their batons they would be a more appropriate and less dangerous solution for literally everyone involved; police, their victims and bystanders.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:09
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"If you're ready for it," which by definition victims of police violence are not.semper wifi posted:I'm talking about both. I saw some show about Ferguson on AJE just earlier this week and haven't heard anything about Garner in a long time. It's just bugs me that every single time this comes up it seems like everyone focuses on these very obviously legit shootings instead of the ones like Garner. Yeah I probably should have remembered Rice's name but like I said I only saw stuff about him for a little while (though to be fair that one was a little questionable in the end, too, considering his toy gun was indistinguishable from a real gun). I think Garner could have resulted in some more significant policy changes and gotten a lot more done had he become the focus instead of Brown. Did you read what I wrote? What is the difference between what happened in Ferguson and what happened in the other two incidents? Can you answer that?
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Mar 19, 2015 00:12
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Rent-A-Cop posted:How do you figure? It isn't like the cops are that sneaky. I mean, they have big flashing lights on their cars and a tendency to yell things like "I'm going to pepper spray you!" Gee, let's consider the differences between a training where the instructor is like "OK you're going to be sprayed, then do this and this" like it was Double Dare to just spraying a person who is not at a training. This is revealing. So this is why cops just shoot people instead of using their pepper spray. "I was able to do things after mentally steeling myself to be sprayed! Better just put bullets in them." Well, nobody said the reasoning abilities of police were adequate. semper wifi posted:Yeah I know, the riots. But There is no but, that is the reason. The public does not care about black people dying, they care about black people angry and in groups.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:18
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Zeitgueist posted:Those guys are way too close, he could kill them before they blinked. He could just spin in a circle and their heads would all pop off.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:32
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Being at the county range does not give you a 2+ to pepper spray resistance. Attending a class where the effects are explained to you, in the context of others being sprayed and recovering, likely does.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:34
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Anything can be a deadly weapon, that doesn't mean it's going to be. If you sneak up on somebody in prison and shank them with a screwdriver, yeah they could die. If you are a fully tooled up officer with a vest and least four different force options hanging from your belt, it's pretty loving unlikely. A baton is sufficient.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:38
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No cops announced "I'm going to murder you because you're black and I'm scared and hate you. For being black." Therefore, it was justified.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:40
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semper wifi posted:This post makes me wonder if you've seen a screwdriver or even your own body in real life before, it's a 6" long pointy piece of steel. Come on. No you come on, look at the reality of the situation. Do you really think a guy surrounded by cops is going to be able to sink a screwdriver into the space behind one of their clavicles? You are buying into a hyper-vigilant mindset. Rent-A-Cop posted:Nope, still hurts. Taser hurts too, but not as much. What are you saying "nope" for? Did you contradict me? I don't think you did because I never said it didn't hurt, only that police in training would be more likely to be capable of deliberate actions after being sprayed than somebody off the street.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:42
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semper wifi posted:You post in TFR dude, I'm sure you've seen that knife guy vs AK cops video. Are we talking about knives now? I thought we were talking about screwdrivers.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:45
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nm posted:Most police vests are not stab resistant. Which is stupid as hell, but doesn't help you once someone is coming at you with a stabbing weapon. Do you really think an unsharpened screwdriver is going to penetrate a vest and inflict a lethal wound? Again it's possible, but it's also possible that he could have reached over and broken the cop's neck with one hand like Antonio Banderas in Assassins. semper wifi posted:I don't understand where you're going with your line of posting here. Surely you will admit that being stabbed with a screwdriver can be fatal and will at least result in serious injury. It's not surprising that you don't understand, because you seem very used to compliantly agreeing with hazy cop logic that a screwdriver is just as dangerous as a knife and warrants the same instant killing.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:48
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Rent-A-Cop posted:In no way do any of the chemicals in pepper spray render you incapable of "deliberate action." That's my point. It hurts like poo poo, but if you don't care because you're nuts, or wasted, or just hard as nails well then it doesn't do much good. It's effectiveness is mostly in people not wanting to feel like their face is on fire and generally reacting to that feeling with panic. This is how police psych themselves up before a killing. "He's nuts, he's wasted, he's hard as nails."
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Mar 19, 2015 00:52
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The spray is definitely way more painful. Taser only hurts for a few seconds really, but I don't know how anyone could walk that thing off. I totally thought I was gonna hard man it but it's like getting hit by Mike Tyson. One second you're standing up, then you're not. But what if you're "hard as nails"?
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Mar 19, 2015 00:56
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semper wifi posted:Is a screwdriver somewhere below a knife on the "danger" scale? Sure. Is it still capable of killing someone? Sure. Do the police have a duty to let the guy stab them with a screwdriver while they try to beat him to the ground with batons/fumble with OC spray/try to tase him? Nope. See this is the incorrect understanding of the use of impact weapons that too many poorly trained police have. When you are subduing a person with an edged weapon or something similar you hopefully don't try to "beat them to the ground," you strike the limb holding the weapon.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:59
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Let me beat this person holding a shiny thing to the ground, where my precious Achilles tendons live.
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Mar 19, 2015 01:02
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Rural cops should probably keep a rifle in the trunk though. Rural policing has no bearing on this discussion.
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Mar 19, 2015 01:12
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Sorry SedanChair I must have missed it when someone made you a mod. I mean what scenario are you talking about anyway? Grizzly defense, or getting pinned down by bootleggers when backup is 50 miles away?
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Mar 19, 2015 01:17
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Lyesh posted:There is NO public good that is being served by having people who have the mentality of loving gang members roaming the streets, pretending they're keeping the peace while demanding absolute obedience backed by the penalty of death without redress. I believe that the systematic profiling, incarceration and murder of black males is absolutely seen as a public good by a majority of Americans. Most would never admit to it of course, or possibly even be able to articulate it in their conscious minds. But you can see it in their reaction when you casually suggest that hey, maybe no cops would be better than systematically racist cops.
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Mar 19, 2015 06:47
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Yeah, but that is a super dumb thing to suggest. Yes, that's what they say because their own racism has terrified them to the point where they are unable to consider alternatives. They just say "that's dumb" and everybody understands what's really being discussed, and who would really go uncontained.
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Mar 19, 2015 07:32
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Would you really say that the absence of a civilian police force is the most salient characteristic of those failed states?
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Mar 19, 2015 07:38
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Are you advocating for the replacement of civil police with military police? No, would you like to answer my question now?
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Mar 19, 2015 07:41
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I guess the question is "worse for who?" Because there are populations who derive precisely zero benefit from policing, while experiencing significant harm. Other populations would certainly experience harm from an absence of all policing, but I am tired of people taking it for granted that the balance of harm and benefit to those populations should remain fundamentally unchanged because of an inchoate terror of return to the state of nature (which is nothing more than code for black men running free in the streets with machetes).
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Mar 19, 2015 08:00
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See, now you want to make me go back on what I said earlier because that sounds like a job for the National Guard. If the only thing keeping you defending the existence of police is protection of minority groups, that's curious to me because they are not particularly qualified for that job. The military, on the other hand, is actually pretty good at that job when they are assigned to it.
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Mar 19, 2015 08:19
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I would be more comfortable with the military than with police because the military has actually taken steps to actively confront institutional racism. They also tend to see Americans as people they are supposed to protect, not antagonize; furthermore, they actually have some experience with legitimate life-threatening situations, and so might be less likely to gun people down for holding a screwdriver. Now if the person holding the screwdriver was in Iraq, that might not turn out so well; but again, they have the advantage of not seeing Americans, even black Americans, as the enemy, whereas police very much do see them as the enemy. As to Katrina, I think that is a similar situation to the LA riots. Pointing to a time where the police decided to stop enforcing the law, and the chaos that ensued, is not a convincing defense for the continued existence of policing.
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Mar 19, 2015 08:38
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Rent-A-Cop posted:I'm confused as to whether you're arguing against the general principle of law enforcement or the current structure of American law enforcement. I wasn't really thinking of MPs, I quite assume that they behave like police. Regular troops on a peacekeeping mission would be more appropriate. Now this is all airy theorizing and as you say there is a concern with the separation of civilian and military power, but in all honesty part of the reason states have clung to that power is so they can implement racist policies. Most of the constitution exists specifically to defend racism at the state level. As for the UCMJ it's certainly a barrel of poo poo, but I don't see why it would apply to civilians just because it applies to the people protecting them. In fact I rather like the idea that if we are going to have a force with the power to use lethal force in carrying out their duties, they should be subject to additional restrictions on their rights, just like military personnel are. One of the most galling things to me about the Ferguson debacle was the prosecutor gloating at the press conference about how high the standard of proof is to show that the use of lethal force by a police officer was not lawful. I don't think police should get more protection from the law than civilians, they should get less.
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Mar 19, 2015 15:15
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Well Vahakyla I get that you are downplaying the risk and danger of your former profession because you find it silly to be called a hero. That's admirable, and I wish more police would look at their jobs that way.
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Mar 19, 2015 23:19
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Pohl posted:Policing is without a doubt dangerous work Was this established?
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Mar 20, 2015 14:25
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Jarmak posted:A substantial part of the danger from police work is from people trying to kill you A substantial part? Compared to traffic accidents?
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Mar 20, 2015 22:59
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A substantial part of the danger from logging is from cougars trying to kill you.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:10
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Gee that's almost the number of police violently killed per year, in one state!
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Mar 21, 2015 03:15
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FRINGE posted:Look at that scary monster they were dealing with. A room full of "warriors" would have no choice but to start blasting. Are you saying they would have been more justified if she looked...scarier?
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Mar 21, 2015 13:57
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And they have a manual safety, which by definition means if you make it ready to fire, you know you are not using a Glock.
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Mar 30, 2015 19:14
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Dr Pepper posted:Actually if the speeding guy is a cop it does. That's what the bear sticker is for, so you don't even have to bother pulling them over.
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Apr 2, 2015 01:43
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They probably thought "Snoop Dogg? Didn't he do 'gently caress The Police'?"
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Apr 4, 2015 15:33
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Of course.
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Apr 8, 2015 03:50
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And then this went down in history, as the very moment when right-wing shamelessness became transparent even to its consumers.
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Apr 8, 2015 03:57
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Yeah they handcuffed him and then they had a nice long bull session to make sure he bled out.
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Apr 8, 2015 04:22
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