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Florida police are using anti-terrorism equipment for basically anything, surprise! https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security-technology-and-liberty/aclu-obtained-documents-reveal-breadth-secretive-sting quote:The ACLU is releasing records today obtained from law enforcement agencies across Florida about their acquisition and use of sophisticated cell phone location tracking devices known as “Stingrays.” These records provide the most detailed account to date of how law enforcement agencies across a single state are relying on the technology. (The full records are available here.)
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Feb 26, 2015 01:17
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KomradeX posted:I'm sure this won't be covered by the news and if it does it'll be just a "few bad apples." I wonder how many other police departments have something like this? Black bagging suspects is hardly new...doing it this blatantly is certainly something though.
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Feb 26, 2015 06:46
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Everyone knows that homeless people synthesize oxygen into adrenalin. The hungrier they are, the stronger they are. Those cops should have called for backup, he could have gone SSJ2.
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Mar 2, 2015 19:08
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Going to take the bold stance that brawling with four cops shouldn't end with a shooting even if you're a UFC heavyweight high on PCP.
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Mar 2, 2015 20:20
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Vahakyla posted:I got a really long monologue from a prosecutor who was fairly surprised that I did not want excessive harm to my stabber. Since I was on-duty and was attacked, the prosecution was fairly harsh and aggressive. I ended up being requested by the defence attorney and I gave a short speech about leniency and forgiving, especially for someone I view to be my patient and thus a person of special connection as a Firefighter. Leniency? Um, you left him alive, didn't you?
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Mar 3, 2015 00:11
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Everblight posted:He said he was a firefighter, aka the people who actually help you in an emergency. Yes, my point was that guy would have had 30 bullets in him if he hadn't attacked a firefighter. I also think Vahakyla has a pretty good stance on that guy, I agree prison is probably not going to help him in any way. vvvv Well cool beans, One Of The Good Ones Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Mar 3, 2015 |
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Mar 3, 2015 00:50
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Forums Terrorist posted:lmao if american cops are bitch made enough that you can't handle a guy with a knife with nothing but a club and gumption. American cops can't even handle people sitting down without escalating to pepper spray. "A club and gumption" is the response for "made eye contact during a traffic stop". A knife is generally 2 guys unloading a magazine.
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Mar 3, 2015 18:27
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Mar 4, 2015 00:59
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on the left posted:If anything, the percentage of arrests and offenders seems low. Where i'm from, black people bat at least double their population percentage in crime representation. Well they might but they're already running against the 100% cap. It's hard out here for a racist PD.
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Mar 4, 2015 02:28
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Well that looks bad at first, but if you notice how black that guy was and realize that many police are racist cowards, it makes more sense.
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Mar 17, 2015 19:27
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Dead Reckoning posted:Someone within arm's length holding a screwdriver definitely can be a threat. The reasonableness of perceiving them as a threat depends on the circumstances, but the fact that he didn't put the screwdriver down when they told him to and instead advanced towards them could be considered threatening. It's a sad, messed up situation. Yeah, the saddest part being responses like this.
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Mar 17, 2015 22:30
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Condiv posted:tasers are for unarmed people you want to torture, cops apparently consider them and pepperspray useless for anything else More or less this. Tasers are for unarmed people you have 6 cops holding down. If the cop is actually scared, they go straight to gun. Keeping in mind, many police are racist cowards, which shouldn't be overlooked.
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Mar 18, 2015 18:09
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Vahakyla posted:Look at this dude who should've been shot: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cX5CPx4RKWw Those guys are way too close, he could kill them before they blinked.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:30
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Rent-A-Cop posted:My point was that pepper spray is basically just a chemical irritant. It won't stop anyone who is set on the idea of being combative. It's primary purpose is to take the fight out of assholes and drunks so the police don't have to club them. Sadly, like Tasers, it seems to get used primarily as a pain-compliance tool. Having been peppersprayed, the best you're gonna do is flail your arms around ineffectually. I guess you could do a helicopter move if you were the machete guy.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:34
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semper wifi posted:It was a totally justified shooting. The cops in this case really didn't do anything wrong. Like I said before it probably could have been done better by someone, somewhere, but it's silly to expect the cops in that situation to do much thinking beyond oh poo poo->shoot. Expecting cops to do anything harder than being trigger happy morons is too much, I would agree. That's why folks are saying that not getting the cops involved would have been a better move. Because a lot of cops are racist cowards. Not all of them, just enough.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:38
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nm posted:I am somewhat surprised that people don't see a screwdriver as a deadly weapon I can see a screwdriver as a weapon. A lot of poo poo can be a weapon. I think people are more upset that "black man holding screwdriver" can be so immediately justified as a good kill.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:40
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Sounds like you had a significantly worse reaction than most people. Took 3 shots to the face. The clothes I was wearing could make my eyes tear up even hours later. Is the story that cops getting peppersprayed at the academy just laugh and do some pushups or whatever?
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Mar 19, 2015 00:45
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nm posted:I think there's only one person arguing that here, and you're not going to change his mind. Yeah, I agree, I'm saying in the larger sense though.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:45
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Condiv posted:no i can attest to that too, mace sucks a lot I have a friend who's an MP, and just recently got tased and hit with OC spray, and he described spray as way worse. I love calling bullshit on folks who talk like they would still gently caress people up after getting peppersprayed.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:49
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You know, the best thing about police threads is that we essentially learn that anything less than a gun is too dangerous to use in any situation you might actually use it. It's essentially an admittance that cops go from 0 to shoot-to-kill in any situation beyond complete compliance and that pepperspray and tasers are used to punish people, not as a less lethal option.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:52
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Rent-A-Cop posted:The spray is definitely way more painful. Taser only hurts for a few seconds really, but I don't know how anyone could walk that thing off. I totally thought I was gonna hard man it but it's like getting hit by Mike Tyson. One second you're standing up, then you're not. Yeah, he said the complete loss of body control was more disconcerting, but way less painful. My argument is that "holy poo poo pepperspray" is not me having an overly harsh reaction, it's more than enough to take out anyone less beefy than Halfthor, and the whole "insane guy on angel-dust hulking up" is more of a bullshit anecdote. I don't buy it.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:56
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semper wifi posted:Is a screwdriver somewhere below a knife on the "danger" scale? Sure. Is it still capable of killing someone? Sure. Do the police have a duty to let the guy stab them with a screwdriver while they try to beat him to the ground with batons/fumble with OC spray/try to tase him? Nope. No, their duty is to kill anyone who isn't kneeling on the ground, we get it.
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Mar 19, 2015 00:58
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SedanChair posted:See this is the incorrect understanding of the use of impact weapons that too many poorly trained police have. When you are subduing a person with an edged weapon or something similar you hopefully don't try to "beat them to the ground," you strike the limb holding the weapon. But wow, wasn't that a telling description, eh?
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Mar 19, 2015 01:00
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Rent-A-Cop posted:It isn't really a beefy thing from my admittedly limited experience. Some people seem to just naturally have a fairly limited response to capsaicin. Some people also fall down and throw up a lot. For most people it seems to fall somewhere in the "very painful" range. Killing people because they maybe aren't completely incapacitated by OC is not a good solution. Like I said, it seems like cops explaining how they use OC spray to torture folks, which seems to be the case.
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Mar 19, 2015 01:11
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nm posted:If they tased him, it is quite unlikely. If you have a gun, cops don't care if you're white or black, they're gonna make you dead. Only without guns does it really come into play. If you don't have a gun, you might also get dead. The race aspect is relevant though.
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Mar 19, 2015 03:04
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Lemming posted:When Dorner was still on the loose, LAPD was shooting randomly at pickup trucks because there might have been a large black man in them. I like how poo poo like that didn't bring about sweeping changes in the LAPD but people were just like...."welp, LAPD"
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Mar 19, 2015 19:25
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As a reminder, while cops rank in the top 15 of most deadly jobs, most of those deaths are car acccidents. Which is tragic, but the "I could be killed by a hulked out meth-head at any moment" attitude is even less based in reality than you might think.
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Mar 19, 2015 22:07
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Vahakyla posted:Also most firefighters handle medical calls in the United States, putting them in contact with the violent and mentally ill. Got a family member who's an firefighter in central Florida, no poo poo 90% of his calls are medical.
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Mar 19, 2015 22:29
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Vahakyla posted:Last station I worked at had, for its number one Engine, 3555 calls for service in the previous year, with 3244 being medical response. His union is hilariously bad, but Florida. 
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Mar 19, 2015 22:35
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Deap see fisherman and loggers should be carrying artillery.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:26
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Jarmak posted:None of their occupational death's are "murdered" Sure they are, by unsafe conditions, and capitalism. But having said that, they also wouldn't be given the benefit of the doubt if they shot a person to death. Maybe we should have a higher standard for police than Deadliest Catch? I dunno.
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Mar 20, 2015 18:49
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Hey how many folks did cops kill in that same time period? Oh wait we have no idea there are no concrete numbers. Why could that be?
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Mar 20, 2015 18:50
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I'll add my own smugness modifiers, thanks though. 
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Mar 20, 2015 22:01
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Jarmak posted:Its correct to point out cops get an inappropriate amount of hero worship for how "dangerous" the job is. Trying to use the fact fishing is more dangerous to say cops don't need guns or to be threat conscious is a non sequitur. Its like saying fisherman shouldn't have life vests because logging is more dangerous and loggers don't wear them. It's not a non-sequitur, it's specifically talking about how "this job is dangerous" is not an excuse for killing folks on questionable cause. Policework can be dangerous, so can logging. One of those two jobs gets a pass when somebody gets shot. Lets hold police to standards of loggers, who probably don't get to say "well the guy was holding a screwdriver" and get to avoid trial when they shoot somebody. Oh and  just for you Ima
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Mar 20, 2015 22:30
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Jarmak posted:A substantial part of the danger from police work is from people trying to kill you, none of the danger of logging is from people trying to kill you. A substantial part of the danger form policework comes from driving a car and eating poorly. Probably more than from people wanting to kill you. I'm not sure why any of that argues for more leniency in response to shooting someone to death, rather than more.
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Mar 20, 2015 22:39
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Jarmak posted:A substantial part of the danger from police work is from people trying to kill you, none of the danger of logging is from people trying to kill you. Oh and by the way The risk of dying as a cop, from any job related injury is about 10 in 100,000(2013) The risk of dying from actual murder as a black american is 17.5 in 100,000(2011) I'm assuming you're for giving black folks the benefit of the doubt when a cop makes a threatening movement at them, right?
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Mar 20, 2015 22:46
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SedanChair posted:A substantial part? Compared to traffic accidents? Substantial is doing a lot of heavy lifting as a weasel word there.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:01
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Patrick Spens posted:Unless and until restraining violent people with weapons becomes a part of a logger's job description, this comparison is worth than useless. Logging is dangerous because there is a high risk of serious injury and the job site is often really far away from medical attention. Police work is dangerous because officers are dealing with people who want to hurt them as part of their job. Like, loggers don't get a pass when they shoot someone because their job will never require them to shoot someone. Myself and others are bringing up logging to put the "danger" aspect in perspective. Police work is dangerous because sometimes officers are dealing with people who want to hurt them, but it's also dangerous because you're in a car all day. That's true of other car-centric jobs. There's no reason why cops should get a pass when they shoot someone, even if that's a possibility on their job. If anything, they should be scrutinized more, to suppress "bad apples" and corruption. All of this is in the context that police are shooting people way too often. If folks don't want to talk about other dangerous jobs, don't bring up the danger. Dangerous is not an excuse to kill people.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:09
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Dead Reckoning posted:Zero percent of the risk in most professions comes from people actively trying to harm you due to your profession, and very few involve an obligation to engage with drunk, unstable, or actively violent criminals. Law enforcement is exceptional in this regard, so I don't know why you keep bringing up lumberjacks. What percentage of risk of death from criminals makes it OK to go lenient on someone when they kill a person? quote:According to that link, the vast majority of black homicide victims were killled by men they knew, not the police, so... You are in substantially more danger of someone trying to kill you as a black person than a cop is. I'm just trying to figure what the parameters are that make it OK to go easy on someone when they kill a person.
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Mar 20, 2015 23:12
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