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Ultimate Mango posted:I may have more firing stories if this thread is interested. I have seen so many things go so badly firing wise. I'm interested, and this thread could just be a general funny firing stories thread. My most memorable firing was a guy who consistently underperformed, writing on the wall, had several unsatisfactory performance evaluations etc. I submitted to HR the decision to terminate him in early december, but HR dragged their feet for a month. He ended up going home to hong kong for new years and, when returning, brought his wife to join him abroad (he had been working for a few months by this time). Fired with immediate effect on his first day back. A coworker who also went to hong kong for new years saw him at the airport with his wife when coming back, having a tearful farewell with a ton of family members. It was a short farewell at least (since he lost his visa status upon being fired)
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Mar 20, 2015 07:14
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Ultimate Mango posted:I may have more firing stories if this thread is interested. I have seen so many things go so badly firing wise. I've only had to fire a couple people, and they were either obvious, writing-on-the-wall cases, or bad-fit temp cases. No good stories, fortunately. (Unfortunate for this thread I guess.)
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Mar 22, 2015 13:42
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Firing managers is difficult. I need to be careful with these stories, as some of the people involved may be goons, but you should get the idea. The Big Ego: Some people just shouldn't manage other people. When it's all about the manager and the people they like, poo poo can go bad. Real bad. There was a manager who basically kissed major rear end of the senior leadership they supported, took all the credit and glory for things his team did, and basically stepped on anyone lower to make them seem just a little taller. When senior leadership loves a manager and the team loathes their boss, bad things happen. But it is also hard to fire them. This manager actually had people who worked under them quit because of the manage,net style and BS. The manager meanwhile protected people he liked, even if they did questionable things or were poor performers. Heck, those people got raises. This stuff was all documented over a rather lengthy period. Then, at a leadership retreat over drinks one evening, the toxic manager was mouthing off in their general big ego manner to someone who turned out to be the president of another division. Oops. The manager had to be taken outside and told not to come in tomorrow and that they were fired. Unfortunately HR was not consulted before the summary dismissal, got involved, and oh boy, the manager could not be fired after all. Instead this person was given a raise and promotion into a position that did not have direct reports or management responsibility. Yet still worked with the same team they managed a few days before. Can you say, "AWKWARD"? I wish I could say more. Don't fire someone in a position of power in an emotional moment without calling HR. When it backfires, it does, it does so spectacularly. The Prostitute: when you are a people manager, regardless of level, you have to maintain the highest moral and ethical standards. I have seen what happens with executive leadership, the big guns, are found naked in a jacuzzi with junior staff at a hotel where a thousand of their coworkers are staying for a big event. I knew a couple who I saw at work events and retreats who I knew were happily married. It took me many years to learn they weren't married to each other. But this one takes the cake. Rewind a couple years from this story and I am in a hotel with a new nightclub opening that weekend, and I happen to make friends with hotel security. Particularly the couple of people whose job it is to spot and evict working girls. Expensive hotel. New nightclub. Thousands of professionals, many of whom have expense accounts. Pretty much anyone who wasn't there for work was there working. I learned a lot that week. Fast forward to the prostitute incident. There was a manager of fine upstanding moral character at a hotel with a thousand of his coworkers (this story wouldn't work the same with a female protagonist). In a hotel in a town known for its bustling sex trade. Nothing wrong with having a drink at a bar with coworkers. Nothing wrong with chatting up friendly people, who maybe happen to also be attractive and of the opposite sex. Maybe the nice female had a little too much to drink, it would only be appropriate to help a lady back to her room so she wouldn't get taken advantage of, right? So of course you would take them to the elevator and then disappear for twenty or thirty minutes, right? Nothing nefarious here. Oh, except that she was totally a prostitute and the manager, there drinking with the people he managed saw the whole thing and it was obvious. And got reported to HR. It actually took many more complaints in the HR file on this person to actually get them fired. Turns out that if you claim to have strong morals and ethics you can get away with trying to gently caress anything in a skirt and okay it off for a long time. Side note: I have actually had several instances of needing to intervene when a female employee, I think in every case married, and about to either make a bad drunken decision or get taken advantage of sexually. No honey, you don't want to take the sleezeball who snuck into our party and may not (or worse _may_) work with you; back to your room for something consensual or otherwise. Just don't go there. Not with everyone you have to see every day for the rest of your time at your current job. One time it took significant effort to lose the sketchy guy as he attempted to follow the girl back to her room. Never, ever go into a subordinates room alone and always make sure multiple people know what is up and why. I hate to sound like a prude, I mean, gently caress whomever you want. Just don't be stupid about it and make a situation where HR has to get involved. And then fire you. The only caveat: when its HR who is naked in the pool with you and a bunch of other people. That is a nice get out of jail free card. Come to think about it, there were some things that I could write about that made the papers in some places. Man, I have seen some hosed up stuff.
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Mar 23, 2015 05:06
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Why does life always seem like a giant sex party that I'm not invited to?
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Mar 24, 2015 04:56
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Ultimate Mango posted:Then, at a leadership retreat over drinks one evening, the toxic manager was mouthing off in their general big ego manner to someone who turned out to be the president of another division. Oops. The manager had to be taken outside and told not to come in tomorrow and that they were fired. Unfortunately HR was not consulted before the summary dismissal, got involved, and oh boy, the manager could not be fired after all. Instead this person was given a raise and promotion into a position that did not have direct reports or management responsibility. Yet still worked with the same team they managed a few days before. Can you say, "AWKWARD"? I wish I could say more. Also, I don't understand this at all, my industry must work very differently, because where I work, if an employee is not within your reporting structure, you simply have no authority whatsoever to fire them. And everyone drat well knows the management structure between themselves and the CEO.
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Mar 24, 2015 05:03
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Blackjack2000 posted:Why does life always seem like a giant sex party that I'm not invited to? There was one Vice President who was a swinger. I swear he married a gal right off a stripper pole. I was never invited to the parties, but some of the younger folks were. It is kind of amazing it never became a major HR involved scandal. Blackjack2000 posted:Also, I don't understand this at all, my industry must work very differently, because where I work, if an employee is not within your reporting structure, you simply have no authority whatsoever to fire them. And everyone drat well knows the management structure between themselves and the CEO. That bit may have been poorly written. The manager who was literally taken out side and fired was taken out by their boss and their boss's boss. What was said was only heard by the three of them, who all had a non zero amount of alcohol in their system. Looking back I am not surprised it didn't stick as a result (at will employment contract or no). The end result was very painful for years afterward, the former manager working on the same team, but not demoted at all and having all kinds of special privileges. I think someone was afraid the guy would sue. Or maybe he had pictures from one of the swinger parties.
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Mar 24, 2015 05:18
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Ultimate Mango posted:Side note: I have actually had several instances of needing to intervene when a female employee, I sincerely hope this is just a thing you do because you're an overzealous boss or something, and not an indicator of wider trends that many companies are starting to adopt. In case you can't tell I find this very, very 
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Mar 25, 2015 19:54
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it's probably a good idea to dissuade any kind of potential harassment issues between employees during work hours. Harassment lawsuits destroy small companies, and can cause major turbulence even in big companies See: Github CEO's wife. Microsoft's xbox swingers
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Mar 25, 2015 21:39
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MeruFM posted:it's probably a good idea to dissuade any kind of potential harassment issues between employees during work hours. Harassment lawsuits destroy small companies, and can cause major turbulence even in big companies Well I have some googling to do when i get home.
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Mar 25, 2015 22:18
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MeruFM posted:it's probably a good idea to dissuade any kind of potential harassment issues between employees during work hours. Harassment lawsuits destroy small companies, and can cause major turbulence even in big companies Bingo. HR and their policies are there to protect the company, not to protect an individual employee's expression of free love.
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Mar 26, 2015 00:08
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Sure. But he said "hotel party" which makes me think it's after hours, with whatever alcohol and other substances being paid for by individuals. In that situation, how is a company going to tell me who or what I can't do? Edit: or coming at it from the other direction, if the company is so concerned with people doing things which could cause harm or disrupt the workplace, why provide/allow alcohol at all? My Rhythmic Crotch fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 00:29
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Sure. But he said "hotel party" which makes me think it's after hours, with whatever alcohol and other substances being paid for by individuals. In that situation, how is a company going to tell me who or what I can't do? Sounds like an industry/company conference at the hotel, so it's kind of a gray area, but yeah, it did sound a little weird grabbing people and telling them who they can't go home with.
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Mar 26, 2015 03:41
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MeruFM posted:it's probably a good idea to dissuade any kind of potential harassment issues between employees during work hours. Harassment lawsuits destroy small companies, and can cause major turbulence even in big companies canyoneer posted:Bingo. HR and their policies are there to protect the company, not to protect an individual employee's expression of free love. My Rhythmic Crotch posted:Sure. But he said "hotel party" which makes me think it's after hours, with whatever alcohol and other substances being paid for by individuals. In that situation, how is a company going to tell me who or what I can't do? All of these are in play to some extent or another. In all of these cases the company was providing the booze and it was definitely a work function. Debate if you want about companies getting their employees blind stinking drunk, this is about firing people. And I can tell you for sure, if a manager got his employees so drunk that something actually bad happened of an assault type nature, what kind of action would a caution HR department take? The one case that really comes to mind was a situation where a male employee from a different office was already starting to cross the line in terms of the way he was talking to and touching a married female employee. Welcome or not, alcohol or not, the behavior was a violation of sexual harassment policies and everyone there who was a people manager had enough training to know intervention was required. Not optional or because we thought something or our morals said it was wrong,it was straight up company policy. Heck, a manager who didn't intervene in a case like that would probably be fired. Sure, go ahead and gently caress whoever you want. Have an affair if that is your thing. Just don't put a manager or HR person in a position where they have to do something like break up your fun. Someone can make a 'loving at work' thread and get a lot of stories from lots of goons. Edit: there was more than one case where someone asked me to intervene, it's not like people are going around policing office hookups. If someone comes and asks me to help get them away from someone making really, seriously unwanted advances, or just asks for help back to their room because they are falling down drunk, I am the sort to help out. Doesn't matter if you are my sister, boss, employee, or friend. Ultimate Mango fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 04:02
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Ultimate Mango posted:All of these are in play to some extent or another. In all of these cases the company was providing the booze and it was definitely a work function. Debate if you want about companies getting their employees blind stinking drunk, this is about firing people. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3708735 Boom done now you gotta post more stories or get banned. or something either way do it.
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Mar 26, 2015 04:26
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Ultimate Mango posted:All of these are in play to some extent or another. In all of these cases the company was providing the booze and it was definitely a work function. Debate if you want about companies getting their employees blind stinking drunk, this is about firing people.
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Mar 26, 2015 04:30
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Ultimate Mango posted:this is about firing people. quote:Sure, go ahead and gently caress whoever you want. Have an affair if that is your thing. Just don't put a manager or HR person in a position where they have to do something like break up your fun. It's a stupid derail yes, but I just hate HR minions (don't take it personally, you seem like a decent guy/gal)
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Mar 26, 2015 04:31
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SiGmA_X posted:Can you clarify, your company policy doesn't allow drunken relations, extramarital relations, or relations period? There are companies that don't ban relationships between employees?
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Mar 26, 2015 04:36
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Sundae posted:There are companies that don't ban relationships between employees?
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Mar 26, 2015 04:43
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My personal nightmare is finally working up the courage to ask out the cute girl in the office only for the ghostly apparition of Ultimate Mango to swoop down in front of me and utter the words Nobody gets laid on my watch, rear end in a top hat
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Mar 26, 2015 04:46
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For those of you really interested in what is and is now allowed: become a people manager at a large company in California with employees in California. Enjoy your yearly mandatory training about sexual harassment and what you should and should not care about. It's kind of amazing I didn't have to fire more people in hindsight. Also, I apologize for the derail and not being more clear about some of the sketchy situations where intervention was required. I think I tried too hard to be vague, but I guess a lot of managers have dealt with this stuff. Edit: I posted in the other thread, which is a bit poo poo because it is in GBS. I really wish I could post the phrase that was a major part of the articles, but it would reveal the identities of those people, which I think is against the rules here about doxing or whatever. Ultimate Mango fucked around with this message at 05:28 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 05:19
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Yeah it's semi lovely cause GBS but then again where else can you post that.
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Mar 26, 2015 06:13
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SiGmA_X posted:I work for a ~3000 employee company, and my gf does too - HR is well aware of it, as are all of our managers, and we drink at happy hour with my last manager (who is still employed, I got promoted to a different division). I know at least half a dozen employees who's significant others work at the company, too. Technically it's allowed at my current employer provided you are married, but you cannot work in the same department as your spouse. Staff relations are otherwise banned. My last two companies had similar rules -- married was okay provided you were in different departments, but no other relations allowed, including relations with people who work at related firms (like, clients or contractors). I can't comment on social events, etc, because we don't really have any. Our idea of a team-building event is a working potluck at the standing-meeting table in our office. It makes sense given the issues when projects / promotions / whatever puts two people in a relationship on different levels of authority and has one reporting to the other, I suppose.
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Mar 26, 2015 14:00
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Ultimate Mango posted:Side note: I have actually had several instances of needing to intervene when a female employee, I think in every case married, and about to either make a bad drunken decision or get taken advantage of sexually. No honey, you don't want to take the sleezeball who snuck into our party and may not (or worse _may_) work with you; back to your room for something consensual or otherwise. Just don't go there. Not with everyone you have to see every day for the rest of your time at your current job. One time it took significant effort to lose the sketchy guy as he attempted to follow the girl back to her room. Never, ever go into a subordinates room alone and always make sure multiple people know what is up and why. I understand people getting taken advantage of needing to be stopped, but guys aren't the only ones who want sex and they're not somehow more capable of decision making than women. If the guy's significantly more sober that's one thing, but I just don't get how if two people are drunk and want to gently caress, the guy is a sleaze and the woman is a helpless child who doesn't know what's going on.
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Mar 26, 2015 14:52
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Sundae posted:There are companies that don't ban relationships between employees? There are a lot of office relationships where I work. One of the sales managers is married to somebody in sales, Somebody in HR is married to somebody in sales, the engineering director is engaged to a girl in sales (and they started dating after they worked here). If everybody is a real-life adult about it, and keeps their personal life from interfering with their professional life, it's entirely possible. Edit: the previous three companies I worked at were the same way. There were a few people that got around and everybody knew about it, but if it didn't interfere with work, nobody cared. Hell, there was an incident where a guy started loving a girl in purchasing, recorded it and was showing it to his buddies, and he didn't even get fired (the recording was consensual but the showing was not) though he got fired later for assault. That was the only incident that I can think of though, generally if there's relationship drama between people at work, everybody's adult enough to keep it away from the business. Cuts down on traveling expenses, too 
CornHolio fucked around with this message at 15:04 on Mar 26, 2015 |
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Mar 26, 2015 14:58
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My last job had a lot of office relationships, and a lot of related people working for each other. The VP of accounting at one point had both his wife and his daughter underneath him. Then the daughter was moved to another area, where they found out she was lying about working extra hours on Saturdays (she was hourly). I don't know if she had to pay the money back, but she went to work for some other company. Then she came back to the company again and worked under daddy once more. Don't have to worry about firings if you're the VP's daughter I guess. Also my boss' father technically worked under him. And another guy in accounting was his older sister's supervisor. That place was kind of messed up in retrospect.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:10
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Afaik my company doesn't allow people to be managers of their spouses in any way, but I couldn't attest to that. I'm pretty sure there are co managers who are married in my gf's dept.
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Mar 26, 2015 20:29
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I worked at a place in the relatively early days of the Internet, right when employers got wise to people surfing inappropriate sites at work. Nothing was blocked because the business we were in used the Internet in a variety of ways, so the network admin started watching traffic. One got had a problem. A porn problem. He was given warnings, and was eventually fired when it became known that he had a rotating set of highly graphic pornography. I think people in IT took backups of his extensive, massive porn collection before wiping his computer. Said collection was available on network shares for years. Heck, it is probably still there somewhere. Nite: don't get caught displaying really graphic stuff on your computer in public.
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Mar 26, 2015 22:22
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Sundae posted:There are companies that don't ban relationships between employees? Yeah lots of them. The really, really big ones (think like GE, major banks, major consulting firms) almost seem to prefer it that way. Marrying a teacher is a lot more likely to cause you to go home early, but if you and your spouse are both working the 70+ hour weeks you're likely to continue
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Mar 27, 2015 20:57
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I wish I could post who slept with whom at my work, because it's actually pretty loving hilarious. But because I've posted open positions on my team a couple times on the job openings thread, I am really worried someone would connect the dots.
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Mar 28, 2015 01:11
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My Rhythmic Crotch posted:I'm commenting on a discussion trend that you originated, so I'm not sure what you mean? No, he doesnt seem like a decent guy. He seems like a retarded bullshitter pretending his life isnt poo poo by sexing up a bunch of dumb work stories, but hes even afraid some of his coworkers are goons so that means its a bunch of fat losers and not sexy at all. Hes the ultimate cool dude in the company and loves following drunk fat goon girls back to their hotel rooms to keep an eye on them. But youre right maybe hes decent and not a migrant from old GBS moving deeper into the gray forums in order to post BigPeeler posts about his awesome sex life and the sex lives of completely retarded employes that he has the misfortune to manage because hes so much smarter and his IQ was definitely measured accurately by an AmericanWay mensa test once.
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Apr 9, 2015 13:10
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There's heaps of relationships at my company? Many out on site because small towns with us in them mean we're the major employer, so you tend not to have many other options, but even in the capital cities the grads will occasionally hook up, or a finance and a business person will hook up, or whatever. How can you guys be so terrible at being adults about it all?
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Apr 9, 2015 15:23
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Nam Taf posted:There's heaps of relationships at my company? Many out on site because small towns with us in them mean we're the major employer, so you tend not to have many other options, but even in the capital cities the grads will occasionally hook up, or a finance and a business person will hook up, or whatever. There are loads of married/dating people in my company, the very definition of a HyperGiantMegaCorp (tech industry dampens it some). There are loads of people who have spouses/SOs working here. I don't think anyone cares. Maybe they would if there was a boss/subordinate thing going on?
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Apr 9, 2015 18:37
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Usually those no dating rules are just there so that IF a big drama bomb explodes and gets dragged into the office, the company can just fire everyone involved. They are not enforced against reasonable adults for obvious reasons. This happened at my last job. Guy and girl hook up, girl's boyfriend overseas is spying on her facebook and finds out, calls and harasses the company, who decided to just drop them immediately. Lots of other people date, breakup etc with no repercussion.
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Apr 10, 2015 00:47
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anne frank fanfic posted:No, he doesnt seem like a decent guy. He seems like a retarded bullshitter pretending his life isnt poo poo by sexing up a bunch of dumb work stories, but hes even afraid some of his coworkers are goons so that means its a bunch of fat losers and not sexy at all. Hes the ultimate cool dude in the company and loves following drunk fat goon girls back to their hotel rooms to keep an eye on them. But youre right maybe hes decent and not a migrant from old GBS moving deeper into the gray forums in order to post BigPeeler posts about his awesome sex life and the sex lives of completely retarded employes that he has the misfortune to manage because hes so much smarter and his IQ was definitely measured accurately by an AmericanWay mensa test once.  did you forget to take your meds today, lol
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Apr 10, 2015 02:20
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Zo posted:Usually those no dating rules are just there so that IF a big drama bomb explodes and gets dragged into the office, the company can just fire everyone involved. They are not enforced against reasonable adults for obvious reasons. WHAT no dating rules? FFS, can someone point me to a 'no dating' rule? Like, how would that even work, what if you went on a date, but didn't kiss her, then it's just a couple of co-workers having a drink after work, no? I've had corporate jobs since I graduated college like 10 years ago, but I've never heard of any 'no dating' rule, ever.
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Apr 10, 2015 05:55
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Blackjack2000 posted:WHAT no dating rules? FFS, can someone point me to a 'no dating' rule? Like, how would that even work, what if you went on a date, but didn't kiss her, then it's just a couple of co-workers having a drink after work, no? I've had corporate jobs since I graduated college like 10 years ago, but I've never heard of any 'no dating' rule, ever. I haven't worked a place in ten years without a dating policy. It's not necessarily forbidden, but like a manager can't date a direct employee and drama has to stay at home. One place I work I a, fairly certain just lifted this template (the page also has a few interesting articles linked). At least in the glorious people's republic of California, dating in the workplace can lead to all kinds of lawsuits if policies are not well documented and communicated to managers and employees.
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Apr 10, 2015 06:23
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Blackjack2000 posted:WHAT no dating rules? FFS, can someone point me to a 'no dating' rule? Like, how would that even work, what if you went on a date, but didn't kiss her, then it's just a couple of co-workers having a drink after work, no? I've had corporate jobs since I graduated college like 10 years ago, but I've never heard of any 'no dating' rule, ever. Every company that I've worked for since the mid 90s has had some rule against being in a relationship with someone you report to (or who reports to you) or is in the same department as you (one of you may get promoted). If you work in different chains of command, it is usually acceptable. There have been way too many cases where the couple break up and the one in a supervisory position ruins the life/career of the other one, or that the one in the supervisory position favors their partner over their partner's peers (making the peers miserable). This stuff is usually found in the "conflict of interest" section of your HR manual.
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Apr 10, 2015 09:04
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Yep - that's how it worked at most of my companies as well. I didn't see it happen very often, but in the case where two scientists in my department at PFE got into a relationship, their managers immediately transferred one into Supply Chain instead so that there was no potential for conflict.
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Apr 10, 2015 15:07
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Those rules have to do with conflict in the reporting chain and extend to non-romantic relationships, at least as far as I understand them. i.e. you can't report to your girlfriend, or your sister, or one of your parents. That's not the same as a "no dating" rule. And I have heard of people getting moved around when a relationship develops, but again, that's not a "no dating" rule.
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Apr 15, 2015 05:23
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Blackjack2000 posted:Those rules have to do with conflict in the reporting chain and extend to non-romantic relationships, at least as far as I understand them. i.e. you can't report to your girlfriend, or your sister, or one of your parents. That's not the same as a "no dating" rule. And I have heard of people getting moved around when a relationship develops, but again, that's not a "no dating" rule. Yeah I think that's how it works. I haven't had to look up the rules (because GOON) but my former boss developed a relationship with a woman from his team. When it got to marriage she got transfered to a different team outside of his reporting line.
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Apr 15, 2015 14:49
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