Gentrification: What is it, what isn't it, what should be done about it?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Gentrification: What is it, what isn't it, what should be done about it?

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

I've been seeing articles and discussions which bring up the topic of gentrification - like "Washington D.C. second only to Portland in gentrification" - and typically the underlying sentiment is that gentrification is bad and should not happen. I'm not disputing that in the slightest - what I'd like is a discussion on what exactly constitutes gentrification, and what should be done to prevent it both at an individual level and a policy level.

Why is that? FIrst you need to prove that everyone deserves a place to live, which I haven't seen done. If you can't afford an apartment, you don't deserve shelter.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 16:43

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 05:43

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

Effectronica posted:

What does "deserve" mean, in this context? Is it a moral phenomenon?

Why should other people be forced to give you shelter, or anything else you need for that matter, if you can't afford it yourself?

BigPaddy posted:

If you are poor you should go live in the woods and starve to death.

Exactly. Nobody earns the right to live simply by breathing. You earn it by being valuable to other people, enough that they pay you enough for the necessities made by other people.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PepQF7G-It0

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 17:22

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

Effectronica posted:

Okay, so in other words, the right to existence is predicated on having money? Wealth is what makes you human?

The right to existence is predicated on your ability to provide for yourself. If you live off rabbits in the woods, more power to you, but it's wrong to take someone else's money, even FU money, to keep someone else alive.

Wealth isn't necessary for humanity, it just guarantees your humanity.

On a moral level that seems wrong, but I can't put my finger on why, so I can't in good conscience recommend policy that I can't prove correct.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 17:44

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

ToxicSlurpee posted:

Look at it the other way; if group A has all of the resources and group B has none does group A have the right to deliberately starve group B to death?

Yes.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 18:30

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

Fojar38 posted:

Congratulations on being a psychopath.

Then apparently better than half the nation are psychopaths, and you gotta convince them why they need to divert resources to keeping less productive people alive.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 18:37

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

ToxicSlurpee posted:

OK, then. Why?

If A has enough resources to comfortably and completely feed B do they have that right? What if A has more resources than they could possibly consume and the stuff that could feed B just rotted in the fields?

What if A has all of the resources? B can't produce anything with no resources to do so.

When you accept that neither the Bs nor the As have an inviolable right to live, this ceases to be a problem.

Either the Bs rise up and take what they need, the As genocide the Bs, or the As and Bs come together to form some kind of agreement where the Bs perform some sort of service for the As in return for the things they need.

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 18:59

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 05:43

TwoQuestions: Aug 26, 2011

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

Hi TwoQuestions,

A lot of people hold certain beliefs as to what constitutes moral or correct behavior on the part of humans. Some of these beliefs are more important or deep-seated than others, and some people might even characterize certain values as "fundamental".

Although questions like "how does gentrification actually harm people" and "what can be done to minimize harm done by gentrification" are ones which people are more likely to change positions on based on evidence and rhetoric given, questions like "why should we care if people get hurt" or "why do many people assume that there is an inviolable right to live" (or why people hold any such concept such as 'inviolable rights') are ones which involve these more deep-seated values, and are thus unlikely to be answerable within the scope of this thread.

In short, your questions about the basic rights and duties of people and society deserve their own thread where they can be more thoroughly discussed than is likely to occur in a thread where a lot of people still want to talk about the causes and effects of gentrification.

I hope you do create a thread for that discussion, because I think it could be interesting to read over, and I hope you understand I'm not trying to bag on you here.

You're right, my topic isn't in this thread's scope, my bad.

Here's the thread: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3702861

TwoQuestions fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Feb 24, 2015

# ¿ Feb 24, 2015 19:31

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > Gentrification: What is it, what isn't it, what should be done about it?