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a friendly penguin
Feb 1, 2007

trolling for fish

Providing online chat reference is the worst!

Yea or Nay

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Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
It's not so bad when folks actually stay logged in and wait for you to answer the question.

It sucks when people type slower than someone else's grandmother, or when you're trying to juggle it alongside in person reference. Do not recommend the latter.

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!

a friendly penguin posted:

Providing online chat reference is the worst!

Yea or Nay

I've always been undecided. What did a chat session achieve that an email didn't?

U-DO Burger
Nov 12, 2007




nesbit37 posted:

I wish the laws around the academic tuition remission were better for the graduate level. Undergrad stuff its fine, but apparently with grad classes it counts as income so you get hit with it by being taxed on it, and that would also really mess with the rates for my IBR and paying back these $60k in student loans. As its set up, baisically no more grad classes for you student loan havers! Hopefully congress doesn't screw everyone and the whole repayment thing will still be around in ~4 years when I hit the 10 year payback limit and they fix the issue that the full balance of the forgiven debt be counted as income for the year it is forgiven turning a multi-year repayment into a one time tax charge of $30k.

Yeah grad tuition remission is screwy in that tuition waived in excess of $5250 is taxable income UNLESS the degree is a condition of employment or something like that. I'm a para getting my MPA and this tax issue is what forced me to go grad school at less than full-time.

Also lol is PSLF seriously going to be taxable income? That's going to be a fun year.

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

a friendly penguin posted:

Providing online chat reference is the worst!

Yea or Nay

That's what I do for volunteer work. I only really hate it when school is in session and middle school kids think it is hilarious to ask me what a cat's butthole looks like.

a friendly penguin
Feb 1, 2007

trolling for fish

remigious posted:

That's what I do for volunteer work. I only really hate it when school is in session and middle school kids think it is hilarious to ask me what a cat's butthole looks like.

"Cecil managed the affairs of the House of Commons and the House Of Lords. What does this sentence mean?"
"Cecil became high treasurer and then his health declined. What does this sentence mean?"

For like 30 minutes before I was able to convince him that this is now what we do.

Patiently helping a woman download software for ebooks that she couldn't find because she didn't read the words on the screen and then after it's not the software she needs telling me that I needed to read her original question better.

Just a particularly frustrating day.

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!
I don't even what to think about what you public librarians go through with BYOD and eBook licensing.

Nope.



NOPE



NOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE

Lee Harvey Oswald
Mar 17, 2007

by exmarx
It drives me to drinking.

U-DO Burger
Nov 12, 2007




Does the prospect of being constantly embroiled in the politics of academia excite you? Boy, do I have a job opportunity for you!

Our institution's University Librarian is retiring after serving for a couple decades, so now we're hunting for a replacement. AFAIK applications are being considered as they come in, so the sooner you apply, the better.

http://www.imsearch.com/searches/details/content/S5-662

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
I just transitioned from working at an academic library to a new job at a public library.

On the one hand, much less office and academic politics. On the other hand, much more homeless, retired millionaires who know the county commissioners, and genuinely insane people.

Lee Harvey Oswald
Mar 17, 2007

by exmarx
Definitely pros and cons in both. Prefer the more relaxed public environment, though.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Lee Harvey Oswald posted:

Definitely pros and cons in both. Prefer the more relaxed public environment, though.

My biggest issue with the public library is our changing tasks every hour (between circulation desk, answering phones, pulling holds, etc) and the constant interruptions. I much preferred the quieter academic environment where I had an actual desk and computer and could sit down and work on a task until it is finished. I was much more a computer type there, working primarily on ILL, database management, and limited cataloging duties. Daily shifts at the circ desk, managing the student workers, and being in charge on the weekends and late at night.

The biggest reason I took this job is that there was no opportunity for advancement at the university due to office politics, and after a few weeks here I'm already longing for a transfer out of the circulation department.

Bitchkrieg
Mar 10, 2014

Cythereal posted:

I just transitioned from working at an academic library to a new job at a public library.

On the one hand, much less office and academic politics. On the other hand, much more homeless, retired millionaires who know the county commissioners, and genuinely insane people.

I worked a year as a public reference librarian (after years in special collections), it was intensely rewarding and seriously challenging. You basically become a community social worker.

My coworkers and management were amazing, but the pay was atrociously bad.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Bitchkrieg posted:

I worked a year as a public reference librarian (after years in special collections), it was intensely rewarding and seriously challenging. You basically become a community social worker.

My coworkers and management were amazing, but the pay was atrociously bad.

I don't mind what I do here in the public library per se, it's genuinely warmed my heart when I've been able to help old folks over the phone (I've asked to be trained for reference since that's a major library skill I was never able to get trained on at the university for the two and a half years I was there due to office politics), but the pace of work is very difficult to adjust to. Slow days here are busier than all but the most manic days at the university and our volunteer corps much slower and less reliable than the stable of student workers the university had.

And yes, the pay is beyond awful. Another reason why I'm already very looking forward to the day I can interview for a better position.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
I'll echo the sentiment of "Get out of circ ASAP" unless you really love it.

The pace slows down quite a bit once you're dedicated reference, children's, or special collections. Not to the relative crawl of academia, but you're only doing 4-5 things at once, rather than 20, and you usually get your own office or at least desk to schedule time off the floor at. As you might imagine, the higher up your get, the better the job is, though the more political it becomes. I'm only 2nd highest at my library (a tier I share with a few other folks), so I still get to run resume classes and play chess with kids. My boss the director has to report to the library board, meet with the town council, draft multiple budgets and long range plans, and ends up working a lot of unpaid overtime. Of course, he also makes about 20% more than I do...

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
Oh, believe me I intend to get out of Circulation if I can. It's an entry-level position to get my foot in the door, and I hope opportunities to move into technical services (I have a background in cataloging from interning while working on my master's, including original cataloging) or information services for dedicated reference. I am of course striving to do the best I can here and it's been a terrific learning experience in many respects, but the pace of work is very stressful.

I already have my MLIS, and my now-boss did ask me during the interview what my plans were after 2 1/2 years in a paraprofessional role and I told them I'm flexible about whether I go for a full-on titled librarian position or divert into a more technical specialty but I am looking for the next step forward in my career and will be interested in any opportunities that arise.

During my second week the number three person in the library sat down with me to talk about my specific professional goals, and I stressed that I would like to get trained for reference: my undergrad background is a history degree, and I've enjoyed the limited reference services I've been able to provide in the past. I also think it's a significant gap in my skill set and experience in the library field that I would like to address.

I tried repeatedly to get trained for reference at the university, but office politics there tended towards the poisonous. Reference at the university was the preserve and privilege of the titled librarians with their offices upstairs, and one of them, drunk at an office Christmas party, flat out told me that it's not worth their time to train a paraprofessional on a librarian's job.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
Yeah, that sounds about par for the course. A lot of librarians are quite defensive about their positions because they do gently caress all at their jobs, and worry about any changes upsetting the nice apple carts they have set up. Some of this I can understand, because you do want trained staff who know their subjects (for example, I had one clerk who didn't know who John Locke was, understandable if you're not into philosophy, whereas I was able to tell the patron a canned biography of the guy and his ideas while finding them a book on him, but then there are clerks I'd trust to do the job better than I would because they've been here since I was a kid and they know more about mysteries or science or local history than I ever will), but on the otherhand, if you've got an MLS, a degree in history, and you want to learn the job... And what the hell is that kind of classism doing in a library setting, anyways? Talking with the director of a local university library, apparently public is the place to be right now if you want any sort of advancement or job safety.

It sounds like you've got your head on right, and the fact that folks up above are already asking about your goals and ambitions is a good sign. Reference is fun as hell, and while cataloging is not my bag, a lot of people enjoy it. I would make sure to follow up so you getting scheduled a few reference rotations or whatever doesn't slip someone's mind. You have the MLS already, so coupled with the experience, if you do it right you ought to be a shoe in for the next opening in the system, or if you network out, one of the neighboring ones.

You probably already know this, but I should warn you anyways that it's not all "I need to find my old dead grandfather's grave" or "tell me about this cool snake I took a picture of while hiking". A lot of it is "How do I print?" and "I've read every Amish romance you own. Recommend me some more Amish romance authors with some sex, but not too much. Just a tasteful amount." and "How do I print?" and "Donald Trump is right. Print me out Fox News' entire website on him" and "How do I print?"

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

Toph Bei Fong posted:

And what the hell is that kind of classism doing in a library setting, anyways?

If I may rant a little? I think it has a lot to do with how the library offices at the university were divided between two floors. Ground floor houses the circulation/paraprofessional department, technical services (cataloging), and the IT/computer guys. Upstairs is where the actual titled librarians had their offices. There was a very toxic disconnect between the two floors, and we in the downstairs area were repeatedly and directly told that we were less important than the librarians. The assistant dean once told us very firmly that we shouldn't have asked a group of the librarians who were being extremely loud as they walked through the library lobby on their way to a workshop to please keep the noise level down.

quote:

You probably already know this, but I should warn you anyways that it's not all "I need to find my old dead grandfather's grave" or "tell me about this cool snake I took a picture of while hiking". A lot of it is "How do I print?" and "I've read every Amish romance you own. Recommend me some more Amish romance authors with some sex, but not too much. Just a tasteful amount." and "How do I print?" and "Donald Trump is right. Print me out Fox News' entire website on him" and "How do I print?"

Quite so. I've already gotten my share at the circulation desk.

Beo
Oct 9, 2007

quote:

You probably already know this, but I should warn you anyways that it's not all "I need to find my old dead grandfather's grave" or "tell me about this cool snake I took a picture of while hiking". A lot of it is "How do I print?" and "I've read every Amish romance you own. Recommend me some more Amish romance authors with some sex, but not too much. Just a tasteful amount." and "How do I print?" and "Donald Trump is right. Print me out Fox News' entire website on him" and "How do I print?"

If you add where's the bathroom and where are your books on serial killers? You will describe my job as a reference librarian in a midwestern town perfectly!

As far as on the topic of public libraries I will say that circulation is non stop busy, reference is pretty fun/easy but if you are in a smaller public library you will almost always be covering multiple positions unless you are a children's librarian I guess. My favorite spot to be at in a public library is definitely around the #2 spot where you have input into budgets, the board knows you and respects your input, your only boss is the director and your job is basically short periods of inactivity interposed with sheer panic when you have to deal with weird things. Most importantly you don't have to play politics with funding entities, city managers, commissioners etc AND you can pass the buck to the director. I've had to fill in for the director for a while now and the absolute worst part of the job is the politics of a small town, I'm not sure if it would be better in larger towns or not.

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem
I had an interview at a public library last Wednesday that I thought went very well. Unfortunately, I still haven't heard anything back from them and the job listing is still up on their website. Would it be annoying/inappropriate for me to send an email to the effect of "hello, I am still interested in this job?"

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!

Toph Bei Fong posted:

Yeah, that sounds about par for the course. A lot of librarians are quite defensive about their positions because they do gently caress all at their jobs, and worry about any changes upsetting the nice apple carts they have set up.

Cythereal
Nov 8, 2009

I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.
That's a new one. Lady just walked into the library wearing a wetsuit. Yes this library is in a coastal Florida down on the waterfront, but still.

Edit: The more things change the more they stay the same. Just got yelled at about how I shouldn't talk back to librarians.

Cythereal fucked around with this message at 18:13 on Feb 29, 2016

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem
Since 7am this morning there has been a person using the text-a-librarian service to ask back-to-back dumbass questions. Stuff like, "who invented sonic the hedgehog?" and "How does Spongebob laugh?"
I am a volunteer, I do not get paid for this poo poo. I genuinely love helping people, but some days it just doesn't seem worth it.
I'm also kind of bitter because I keep getting job interviews, but no one will hire me. I am starting the think that maybe they can sense my desperation :(

VideoTapir
Oct 18, 2005

He'll tire eventually.
Have you ever gotten someone giving you lip when you can't fulfill some unreasonable request about how "I pay your salary!"

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

VideoTapir posted:

Have you ever gotten someone giving you lip when you can't fulfill some unreasonable request about how "I pay your salary!"

I am pretty good at deflecting potentially tense situations by offering to connect them to someone with more specialized knowledge. This is usually a BS thing I say to get them out of my hair, but it works. I did have one guy get agitated with me because I couldn't find information about "a chainsaw that was maybe stolen during WW2." Wtf am I supposed to do about a maybe stolen chainsaw??

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem
Sorry for double posting, but what is the correct answer to this common interview question?
"If a parent of a student came to you with a problem about the book they had checked out, deeming it inappropriate etc, how would you respond to that parent?"
I always say something along the lines of "I would tell the parent that I will pass their concern along to the librarian in charge of that department, but ultimately I agree with ALA's stance that it is the job of the parent to police what their children read."
Is that a good answer?

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

Okay, get this. So I work in a reasonably big digitization project. Our scans are stored on another library's servers, because they're specialized in that. After working here for a few months, I have to say ostensibly. All we have to upload our scans is a web portal held together by spit and ancient Java that imports metadata directly from the online catalog. Some time ago the import function stopped working. We let the systems guys on the other end know and they said it was a problem with importing corporate body IDs. They have a fix but can't implement it yet because their own database will apparently explode if they do. After having me sit on my rear end for two weeks because uploading these scans is almost my entire job, they finally came up with a workaround. Before importing, identify the corporate body entries that would cause problems, delete them from the nationwide database, store their raw data in a local notepad file, and reinsert afterwards.

Is it time for a new job? I think it's time for a new job.

Bitchkrieg
Mar 10, 2014

My Lovely Horse posted:

:words:
Is it time for a new job? I think it's time for a new job.
Not at all surprising.

I spent a year at a major archival institution and its process workflow was so astoundingly inefficient, (a) barely anything ever got done despite (b) benefactors donating tons of money.

Similarly, I've yet to encounter any digitization project at a major institution that was, in any sense, well / efficiently run.

(Side note: I work as a systems analyst now, and my work deals with process improvement and efficiency. I should do consulting work for digital libraries because holy :lol: are most horribly disorganized).

My Lovely Horse
Aug 21, 2010

In retrospect I should have known it was gonna turn out like this when I had my interview and they gave me a "practical exam" that was just a written quiz, for which they sat me in front of a computer, then took ten minutes trying to find the login info for the quiz, only to return and tell me I didn't need any, it was all on paper.

e: I'm starting to wonder why they wouldn't just set the portal to not import the bodies until they've worked this out, but I have this horrible feeling that's gonna be the eventual fix.

e2: you know, reviewing the way my boss has worded it, he could have meant "delete the links to the body entries from the catalog dataset to be imported and reinsert them afterwards". That would be slightly less insane.

My Lovely Horse fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 20, 2016

Kusaru
Dec 20, 2006


I'm a Bro-ny!

remigious posted:

Sorry for double posting, but what is the correct answer to this common interview question?
"If a parent of a student came to you with a problem about the book they had checked out, deeming it inappropriate etc, how would you respond to that parent?"
I always say something along the lines of "I would tell the parent that I will pass their concern along to the librarian in charge of that department, but ultimately I agree with ALA's stance that it is the job of the parent to police what their children read."
Is that a good answer?


I'd probably toss a line in there about library collections representing all viewpoints/being for everybody and how many items in the library are ordered because of patron request (assuming that's true). Also, most libraries have a reconsideration policy, see if you can look that up online beforehand. My library has a formal challenge process that involves the patron filling out a form, then various library staff watch/read the title in question. Most patrons balk at that and end up not bothering.

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!

Insane Totoro posted:

Also everyone post their favorite mint julep recipe (this is what Confluence and LibGuides is for right?).

1 oz homemade simple syrup (infused with peppermint extract)
6 fresh mint leaves
3 oz Knob Creek bourbon
1 tsp sugar

Muddle mint and sugar.
Fill tumbler with crushed ice
Pour bourbon over ice
Add simple syrup
Stir

You all need a drink....

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

Kusaru posted:

I'd probably toss a line in there about library collections representing all viewpoints/being for everybody and how many items in the library are ordered because of patron request (assuming that's true). Also, most libraries have a reconsideration policy, see if you can look that up online beforehand. My library has a formal challenge process that involves the patron filling out a form, then various library staff watch/read the title in question. Most patrons balk at that and end up not bothering.

That is a good point, thank you! I suddenly have 6 (!) interviews over the next 5 days, so hopefully my search will be at an end soon. This thread has been so helpful every step of the way :)

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem
Well, I finally got a job! I was offered a salaried position in an office very close to where I live, so I couldn't turn it down.
Almost immediately after accepting that job, I was asked if I wanted to be a weekend substitute librarian for a town about 20 minutes away. I'm torn because it would be good experience, but I'm also worried that I would go nuts if I had no days off. What do you guys think?

nesbit37
Dec 12, 2003
Emperor of Rome
(500 BC - 500 AD)
You're going to go nuts if you have no days off ever.

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

nesbit37 posted:

You're going to go nuts if you have no days off ever.

As much as I hate to pass up an opportunity, I think you're right. And the full-time job I'm about to start will be extremely stressful until I learn the ropes. I think I just needed someone to tell me if I was being lazy or not.

Toph Bei Fong
Feb 29, 2008
Probation
Can't post for 17 hours!
In this economy, full time > anything else.

Don't be nuts. Another part time position will come along if you need/want it. Until then, focus on the full time position and do your best there.

Also, congrats! I'm glad your long search is over!

Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!

remigious posted:

Well, I finally got a job! I was offered a salaried position in an office very close to where I live, so I couldn't turn it down.
Almost immediately after accepting that job, I was asked if I wanted to be a weekend substitute librarian for a town about 20 minutes away. I'm torn because it would be good experience, but I'm also worried that I would go nuts if I had no days off. What do you guys think?

Is the salaried job in a library or related field?

If you want experience just volunteer. Nobody cares if you're paid for being a librarian or you're unpaid. As long as the supervisor can give you a reference you're fine. And of course if you walk away with good on the job experience.

Once a week for a few hours is more than enough. A good director will realize you have interest but that you need to feed yourself too.

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

Insane Totoro posted:

Is the salaried job in a library or related field?

If you want experience just volunteer. Nobody cares if you're paid for being a librarian or you're unpaid. As long as the supervisor can give you a reference you're fine. And of course if you walk away with good on the job experience.

Once a week for a few hours is more than enough. A good director will realize you have interest but that you need to feed yourself too.

Thank you for the well wishes, Toph.

The new job isn't library related at all, but involves doing a lot of research for corporate reports. So while I'm sad I didn't end up in a library, I wouldn't have been hired if not for my MLIS, so I don't feel like it was a waste. I've actually been volunteering for the past year or so, and no library I interviewed with (and there were many!) seemed to care. Goddamn, I went to a lot of interviews.

I genuinely am passionate about the library so I may still try to pursue that avenue at some point in the future, but for now I want to concentrate on doing well at the new job and see what opportunities that holds for me.

CynCyanide
Mar 21, 2005

dance, water, dance!
I hope this thread isn't, like, super dead or anything because I could use some library job related advice. I'm not actually a librarian, though.

Anyway, I work for my library's technical services department which is the fancy title for the office full of gremlins who slap labels on all of the books and stuff and send them out to branches. I'm part-time, but one of the full-time people just left and their position is open. So. How do I phrase a cover letter to indicate that I would like a slightly nicer paycheck, more hours, and a benefits package without explicitly mentioning that I'm just greedy and want money? There's a big system-wide push right now to reinvent the library's image with input from all departments. Should I suggest that's it's hard to provide feedback or have opinions when I'm not there that often and, as a part-time person, rarely if ever interact with people outside of my department? Full-time staff are responsible for problem reports from branch staff. Or should I go with the old "I feel I am ready for more responsibility because I already volunteer for all of the extra things" approach? Basically, what do you guys think a library's HR department wants to hear?

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Insane Totoro
Dec 5, 2005

Take cover!!!
That Totoro has an AR-15!

CynCyanide posted:

I hope this thread isn't, like, super dead or anything because I could use some library job related advice. I'm not actually a librarian, though.

Anyway, I work for my library's technical services department which is the fancy title for the office full of gremlins who slap labels on all of the books and stuff and send them out to branches. I'm part-time, but one of the full-time people just left and their position is open. So. How do I phrase a cover letter to indicate that I would like a slightly nicer paycheck, more hours, and a benefits package without explicitly mentioning that I'm just greedy and want money? There's a big system-wide push right now to reinvent the library's image with input from all departments. Should I suggest that's it's hard to provide feedback or have opinions when I'm not there that often and, as a part-time person, rarely if ever interact with people outside of my department? Full-time staff are responsible for problem reports from branch staff. Or should I go with the old "I feel I am ready for more responsibility because I already volunteer for all of the extra things" approach? Basically, what do you guys think a library's HR department wants to hear?

This is more a question for the resume/cover letter thread folks but I would just submit your "normal" cover letter.

That being said, your cover letter should always explicitly lay out what makes you a good fit and state very obviously what skills you have that are applicable.

You don't need to get super creative. You're applying for the position because you're would do well at the job and everyone wants to move up.

Do you have any actual interest in getting an MLS or going further in the field?

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