Guide to Librarian Jobs and Education

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Ask/Tell > Business, Finance, and Careers > Guide to Librarian Jobs and Education

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Crossposting from the A/T thread:

So I don't know if this is the right place for this, but I've been accepted to a good MSIS program for archival studies, at a university with great archives and libraries (one of which I've volunteered at in the past, when I knew I was applying), but I'm not funded yet for my first semester at least. I talked to a student who said that about half of all students in the program have either partial or full funding.

I have a master's in history and would be pursuing archival studies at a university with archives that fall right into my specialization. So I think I would be a good candidate for funding and jobs assuming I work hard and make the most of it, but I'm still pretty nervous that employment will be totally random and thus that the program is a horrible idea. Does anyone have a sense of how much the university you get your MSIS/MLS at matters for archive jobs? I only ask because the program talks about how well-regarded it is and I want to know if it would be better to just go to some tiny-rear end school.

Is it a bad idea to commit to a program like this? I'll probably have more specific questions in a few days when I hear the thread's general thoughts. Thanks!

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 14:51

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 14:42

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Yep, US. The program is also in the city where I already live and where I'll be living for the next year at least even if I don't accept, for what it's worth. No moving required.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 14:59

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

nesbit37 posted:

These days, I would say that the MA in History plus an archival studies degree will get your foot in the door in a lot of places for interviews of entry level and project positions (most of what you will find are project positions for your first 5 years as an archivist). You will be basically be on the same footing as anyone else with 2 graduate degrees, and being in archives that means most of the others will also have them in history. Still, getting ahead of all the people that only have an MLS or maybe a 2nd degree that something is like an MBA is a good help. The only thing that would be more beneficial is lots of demonstrable tech skills and experience.

As for the skill, at least around here pretty much no one cares. They just look at the degree, usually not where you come from. There are exceptions of course, but most people just want to make sure you have been vetted via getting that degree and then what specific thing you have experience with.

fake edit: for those entry level jobs it can be really competitive largely because it is very difficult to differentiate candidates fresh out of library school. They all tend to have archival experience from school, either volunteering or internships and jobs that go to students, and then they tend to have similar degrees. There was one project position we hired for that the two final candidates were pretty much the exact same and seemed equally competent after the in person interview. We ended up picking one over the other because she had some German language reading skills and the other didn't, and one of the collections out the ~20 in the project that were going to be processed was in 17th and 18th century German.

This is really helpful (and reassuring, to be honest). What, in your estimation, sets a candidate apart? Like I said, the program I'd be attending has great archives and libraries I would presumably get lots of hands-on time in, but does that even make a difference if another job candidate also has experience while they're in school, but at a smaller archive?

quote:

he only thing that would be more beneficial is lots of demonstrable tech skills and experience.

I take this to mean programming knowledge or something? I started learning Java on CodeAcademy when I was unemployed a little over a year ago, though when I got a job I stopped learning. Are there any specific technical skills I can start learning before even joining a degree program?

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 15:43

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Insane Totoro posted:

A quick way to get some quantifiable certificates in some tech stuff that isn't outright coding is to do some ALCTS work online: http://www.ala.org/alcts/confevents/upcoming/webcourse/fpres/ol_templ

Additionally, start considering getting your own domain ($10/year from that SA Mart deal) and make yourself a Drupal portfolio or something of that sort to demonstrate your ability to handle things that aren't just using Wordpress and MS Word.

Being able to say "Well, yes I can do web design and handle all that sort of geek stuff. Check out my online portfolio that I made myself" is a lot better than "Intermediate Microsoft Office Proficiency."

This is all great advice, thank you. And I'll look into the upcoming ALCTS session. Hopefully I can make it work with the fact that I'm living abroad for the next couple months...

nesbit37 posted:

Not necessarily programming, but experience with using tools like Archives Space or Archivists' Toolkit, working with a digital management system, knowing how to use excel and understanding what you can do with it even if you don't know how, knowledge of and preferably experience with databases, etc.

I'll look into these right away too, thank you so much!

quote:

As for setting candidates apart, yeah, size of the archives and library doesn't matter, people don't care, its the work your doing. Sometimes the smaller places actually give you a better experience because they are understaffed and you have to do a larger variety of things. Also, be aware that if you are applying in the same area as where you got that experience whoever you are applying to probably knows pretty much exactly the kind of experience you received there. Some of it is going to just come down to the needs of the position you apply for, and if its a project position that could be pretty specific.

This actually segues into my next question pretty well - I found out that the program I'd be attending doesn't consider first-semester MSIS students for TAships. Graduate research assistantships in libraries haven't been announced yet, and one student I talked to said they're actually harder to come by than TAships anyway, even though they don't cover the entire cost of tuition.

At the same time, I may have an opportunity to teach a writing and rhetoric course which would pay for my school and bills next year, but would require a year-long commitment and a lot of time. I'd also have to take a practicum in the department which would require me to design a curriculum which, if accepted, I may be able to teach if I come back for the second year.

My question is whether it immediately jumps out as a horrible idea to take a teaching position in another department for a full year when I start the program. I was lucky enough to be funded with good teaching opportunities for my MA in history, but I had friends who got funding from other sources to provide academic and writing support in the school's resource center, and it seems like it immediately boxed them out from future departmental funding. Would taking an outside position make me look like a terrible job candidate later? If I can still find projects and volunteer opportunities at libraries/archives, would it really matter if I wasn't a graduate research assistant?

On the one hand, I can see why institutions would want to hire someone who has experience doing the work full time, particularly with graduate research assistant experience. But at the same time, I'd be getting experience through classes, projects, and volunteer time anyway, and with more teaching experience I can say on my CV that I can be an archivist who also helps out by designing and teaching courses, right? :ohdear:

I know the head archivist and librarian at the school where I got my MA, who had a PhD in Latin American Studies, taught occasional courses, so it's definitely not unheard of for schools to look for that in a candidate.

Cognac McCarthy fucked around with this message at 11:00 on Mar 18, 2015

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 10:54

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Insane Totoro posted:

I'm a librarian and I didn't have time to read all that (joking)

But really I haven't heard of anyone caring if a librarian has taught in the past. Well, unless they're a pedagogy subject specialist or specifically a course embedded librarian.

To me it seems the going assumption is that anyone who was a (real) grad student could teach a one or two credit course with one hand tied behind their back. So it's not something you have to prove you have the ability to do so.

I'd only do it if there was some immediate tangible benefit or if something specifically required experience in teaching.

The immediate tangible benefit is having my tuition paid. :v:

nesbit37 posted:

If it's in an academic institution it will help a little, but still if you want to be an archivist and not an archival theory researcher most places are going to want to see practical experiance. Do what you can for a "free" education but just keep that in mind.

Well I'm definitely leaning toward academic archives for employment. My real question, though, is how essential are GRAships for building "practical experience"? It seems like you don't think they would be that useful for me in terms of experience. Outside of classes, presumably volunteer time and internships are more useful? If GRAships are the best form of funding for experience-building, I may look for them first, but if it makes no difference experience-wise, teaching would get me much more money and may allow me a similar amount of time for volunteering and internships.

e: And of course all of this is assuming I'm even able to get the teaching position or a GRA position, the prospects for the teaching position seem good so far but it's still very early.

Cognac McCarthy fucked around with this message at 13:28 on Mar 18, 2015

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 13:25

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

nesbit37 posted:

It depends on what you are doing as a GA? I mean, by practical experience I am talking about experience processing, or working with digital collections, appraisals, doing disaster recovery, etc. Unless you are a GA in the archives you probably aren't going to get any of that I am guessing.

Okay, I can see that. The positions I see now are more library/circulation stuff that I'm not even sure I'm eligible for right now (they start immediately or in the summer, I won't be enrolled until the Fall), but I'll pay special attention to GRAships that are in actual archives, not just the libraries.

Thanks so much for your help so far, broze, I really appreciate it! I'll be back with more questions before committing, I'm sure.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 15:36

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Toph Bei Fong posted:

I'll echo the sentiment that, no matter what type of library you're looking to work in, get some actual experience working in that type of library during your degree program. The extent to which this is a field biased towards people with in the field, demonstrated ability, cannot be overstated.

How specialized would you say it's necessary for your work experience to be? By "that type of library", do you mean public/academic/law, or more specific than that? The archive I'd like to work at while a student is a Latin American library with a great LA archive (my background is LA history), but there are also great libraries/archives on campus for other geographical regions and humanities disciplines. Should I stay away from them? Do you think overspecializing is a risk for archivists?

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 18:44

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Perfect perfect perfect, thank you so much. That issue was honestly really confusing to me and it helps a bunch to hear that. I'm coming from history where everyone is separated more into geographical and chronological specialization rather than disciplinary or methodological specialization, so I need to unlearn that and focus on practice more than archival materials subject matter.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 18:59

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Toph Bei Fong posted:

Also, bear in mind that there are only so many LA archives in the country, not all of whom are hiring at any given time or that are located in an area close to friends and family, so you might end up working at one that isn't focused in that area, depending on the choices you make. Would you hate having to work with artifacts and documents not related to LA history? Probably not; almost every subject is interesting once you spend enough time with it.

Officially my MA is in Latin America, and I speak fluent Spanish so that's what I tell people I study, but I'm secretly a Europeanist. :ssh:

I have no problem getting interested in anything old, and the older the better for the most part so I think I should be able to present myself as having a good background in a pretty wide variety of areas. Thankfully my grad program did allow me to be a generalist pretty easily.

quote:

Cultivate interests in other things as well, make sure you're a well rounded person who can play well with others and is a fun, easy to work with colleague, and don't ever stop learning new things. So many folks in libraries get into a rut and expect the new generation to carry them over when it comes to technology, it's crazy.

Yeah I'm going to focus super-hard on the technical skills so I don't leave the program not feeling confident in anything other than "well I know a lot about history :downs:

". I think I sort of coasted through my MA too casually, since I went there right after college and was exhausted from school. But a couple years out of school has made me want to work hard at practical things that my program should help me get.

Thanks again for all your help guys, all of this is useful. I'll wait a while before committing so I have plenty of time to think it through, but I'm leaning toward joining your mysterious fraternity.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 20:49

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

nesbit37 posted:

I don't know if this is helpful or not but my history MA was in colonialism, specifically French empire, and my first real archives job out of grad school was at one of the oldest and most prestigious American history archives in the country. I hadn't really studied anything directly related to American history since high school.

This is sort of what I'm thinking of as a "really-good-but-maybe-not-best-case" scenario. My background is Spanish colonialism with elements of comparative colonialism so I can talk about contemporary Europe and infer a fair amount about colonial North American society from that.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 21:01

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Welp I've officially enrolled for the fall. :3:

Time to get to work on all those technical skills you guys so helpfully let me know about, thanks!

# ¿ Mar 26, 2015 08:58

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

I'm interviewing in one week for a GRA archival position that would start the summer before my archival studies program actually begins. I have the language skills for the position and the historical background, but not necessarily the technical skills the job will employ. Any advice on how I should prep for this interview? Is it good to be upfront about my need and desire to learn these skills, and focus on my other strengths, or should I spend the next week scrambling to learn about the required skills I currently lack? Given the short time frame, it probably is a matter of choosing between practicing my language skills (which may be out of practice, and are essential for the job) and learning about these practical skills.

And unfortunately the GRA posting has been taken down since the deadline has passed, so I can't even look up what the actual skills are. It was mostly specific archival cataloging tools I think.

# ¿ May 6, 2015 08:53

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Insane Totoro posted:

Be honest.

Create a plan for how you plan to acquire all the skills you need.

Mention that you'd work with a supervisor and make that plan happen at a pace they'd be comfortable with. And mention you're dedicated to always having continuing education etc. Etc.

This was helpful advice, I got the position. :3:

# ¿ May 14, 2015 07:44

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Archivist post :siren:

Well, I graduated from my Master's program last month and on Friday I got an offer to stay on to work on a grant project at the archive I've been at for the past two years, which is quite literally a dream job with good pay somehow. I got some really great advice in this thread before I started my program, and I'd like to offer some lessons I've learned about archives over the past two years:

1. If you're a student, you should basically refuse to say "no" to professional networking and volunteer opportunities in the first year. Even if you feel like a total imposter (I didn't know what an archivist "does" before my first class), people will respond well to someone who dives in enthusiastically and takes the work seriously. I impulsively became SAA president at my school and wore myself the gently caress out in my first year taking on projects, but it's hard to argue with those lines on my resume, and you learn a lot this way. On a related note:

2. Become an extrovert. Seriously, archivists are as quiet and introverted as librarians most of the time but if you can get over it and treat public engagement and outreach, professional advocacy, and general enthusiasm as core professional duties, you can pretty easily stick in people's minds way more effectively than all your crushingly shy colleagues who might float in and out of the local community. Networking is everything, especially when you're a student.

3. Physical preservation classes are essentially useless. Unless you're looking very specifically at becoming a preservation specialist (lol good luck) there's hardly anything generally useful to be gained from these classes. And I say this having gone to a program with a really strong preservation component, with amazing labs and everything. Did you know you should have a disaster plan for your archive? Did you know flooding is a thing? There, I saved you a semester. Also, preservation experts are goddamn severe and weird people.

4. Find ways to make the boring classes and skills interesting. I came to my program thinking I wanted to be a rare books and manuscripts librarian/archivist, and now I'm going to be responsible for establishing a digital archive over the next 5 years or so, because I had some (very, very basic) computer skills coming into the program that made me one of the digital guys. Find a way to get interesting papers and projects out of boring classes. Grad school sometimes feels like a tremendous waste of time but you can make it valuable and rigorous if you want. I really had to struggle to find a way to make the digital side interesting but once I did it made my work a lot more meaningful.

5. For the love of God don't wait until you've graduated to take on an internship or job, if you can help it. I worked 20 hours a week throughout grad school, and the most successful people I know worked even more. It's horribly exhausting but the odds are so, so much better that you'll be able to work full time right after graduation. There are a lot of people posting on listservs saying "I just graduated from [online program], does anyone know where I can get an internship?" These people are starting off at the absolute bottom, because they have apparently no hands on experience.

6. Go to a real in-person school if you can afford it, and probably even if you can't. Choose a good program in a part of the country you can see yourself working after graduation. Professional degree programs can feel like a huge waste of time, so in-person networking will go a long way towards making your degree worthwhile. The big universities with in-person programs typically have great archives you can work at while you're in school, which is super important for building your resume. And because networking is so important, you're likely to have an easier time leveraging your expensive degree in the area around where you got it (i.e. the Northwest if you went to UW, the Midwest for Michigan or Madison, the East coast for UNC, the South for UT Austin, etc), so try and choose a program in a region you like.

Officially making myself available to answer any archives-specific questions in this thread!

# ¿ Jun 4, 2017 15:36

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

It took me way too long to get the answer to this crossword clue because I was wildly overthinking it. MARC? EADA? What the hell is it?

Also, did anyone read this ARL article on hiring trends? Get that second master's, kids, so you can call yourself a subject specialist and get a sweet job. It paints a pretty rosy picture of job prospects, but it's based on self-reporting rather than statistical sampling so things could be worse than this predicts.

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Cognac McCarthy fucked around with this message at 15:28 on Nov 29, 2017

# ¿ Nov 29, 2017 15:10

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 14:42

Cognac McCarthy: Oct 5, 2008; It's a man's game, but boys will play

Yeah apparently people go to the library to get their hands on that sweet, elusive dictionary information.

# ¿ Nov 29, 2017 15:29

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