Army Thread - These people already don't give a fuck about me - The Something Awful Forums

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The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Army Thread - These people already don't give a fuck about me

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

quote:

A study released Tuesday by two Army War College professors explains how some officers maintain compliance with ever-increasing training requirements, requests for information and reams of mandatory paperwork.

They lie about it.

The service's "foundation of trust is slowly being eroded by the corrupting influences of duplicity and deceit," wrote Leonard Wong and Stephen J. Gerras in "Lying to Ourselves: Dishonesty in the Army Profession." Wong and Gerras, both former Army officers, spoke with "scores of officers" from multiple locations, compiling anonymous anecdotes about dishonest training practices, incomplete inventories, even falsified medical reports.

The authors offered multiple explanations for this behavior, but focused on the increase in required training, forms, directives other administrative layers that comes without the removal of other duties, but with the expectation of 100 percent compliance.

"When it comes to requirements for units and individuals, the Army resembles a compulsive hoarder," they wrote in the report, first featured by The Washington Post. "It is excessively permissive in allowing the creation of new requirements, but it is also amazingly reluctant to discard old demands."

This contributes to "ethical fading," according to the report � cutting corners and checking boxes in an effort to satisfy requirements becomes a common enough practice that moral objections to it eventually disappear.

The 53-page report isn't short on examples:

A captain described how his unit complied with quarterly Sexual Assault Prevention and Response Program requirements: "We needed to get SHARP training done and reported to higher headquarters, so we called the platoons and told them to gather the boys around the radio and we said, 'Don't touch girls.'"
A nine-man squad pressed for time to complete a mandatory online course "would pick the smartest dude, and he would go in and take it nine times for the other members ... and then that way they had a certificate to prove that they had completed it."
Enemy contacts in Afghanistan and Iraq would go unreported because they required a PowerPoint description after the fact, something some officers felt "was useless ... they didn't want to go through the hassle."
A captain recalled lying on a traumatic brain injury report � increasing the distance between a valued junior officer and an explosion � to avoid the possibility of a required medical evacuation. "If I do that," the captain said of the evac, "I'm going to put my boys in bags because they don't have any leadership. That ain't happening."
Dishonesty in the name of the greater good was a frequent theme of the report, offered by many officers as an explanation for their actions. Others cited the seemingly unimportant nature of the requirements being fudged, the need to keep up with other officers or units that may have inflated their performance or readiness rates, or a belief that senior leaders were aware the information being submitted was inaccurate.

"Everyone does the best they can, but we know the data is wrong," one officer told the authors.

Former battalion commanders lent some support to that theory, including one who outlined a reporting process with deadlines that required companies to "describe events that had not even occurred yet."

The authors highlighted the mandatory counseling sessions included in officer and noncommissioned officer evaluations as a frequent source of misrepresentation. The individual being rated, the rater and the senior rater must sign a support form saying these meetings take place, but the authors say meeting such a requirement "is the exception, not the rule."

"Yet each year, tens of thousands of support forms are submitted with untruthful information," the report continues. "To the average officer, it is the way business is done in the Army."

The authors, who noted that the military continues to be "filled with competent and committed servants of the nation," offered three suggestions in defeating this dishonest mindset: More open discussion of the problem and its causes, a more measured and prioritized approach to additional mandatory training, and "[a] focused emphasis on leading truthfully" that would stress morality in decision-making.

Leaders practicing dishonest behavior while preaching proper ethics create "a corrosive ethical culture that few acknowledge and even fewer discuss or work to correct," the report states. "The Army urgently needs to address the corrupting influence of dishonesty in the Army profession."

http://www.armytimes.com/story/military/careers/army/2015/02/19/-army-lying-distrust-ethics/23678429/

gently caress the army

EBB fucked around with this message at 16:28 on Jun 8, 2016

# ¿ Mar 1, 2015 18:06

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:08

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Fucitol posted:

this is what people get for being in the army

so gently caress em for still being in

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 02:19

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Pesticide20 posted:

Holy Jesus day two is worse than day one. I didn't think it was possible. This was supposed to be a happy class.

Think happy thoughts. One day soon you will wake up in a bed without an alarm going off. You won't particularly feel like getting up, but it doesn't matter because you can lie there as long as you want and no angry phone call will be incoming. Scratch the stubble on your face. Consider seeing your weed man later in the day. Everything before that blissful moment will have been a bad dream.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 15:10

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Just leave the incoming alarm on 24/7. If you get whacked outside a shelter it's your own fault.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 21:36

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Retardog posted:

gently caress drill weekends. gently caress training meetings. That is all.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2015 04:23

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

NTT posted:

fuk i have to be at dril at an hour ama

questions should concern my sexual preferences thanks in advance

gently caress you got mine

# ¿ Mar 7, 2015 16:41

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

HAOLE GO HOME

# ¿ Mar 11, 2015 13:53

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Retardog posted:

From a buddy's FB: "HRC is an odd place I never want to figure out. You know you're gonna have a bad day when you roll up and a LTC is outside on a detail picking up cigarette butts in the parking lot."

Lord help any staff CPT or LT in there. They're probably being used as ottomans.

# ¿ Mar 12, 2015 17:27

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Murder and a sexual offense with a minor? This guy is hosed for life both in and outside prison.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2015 22:55

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Fucitol posted:

i was expecting sharper wit and deep cutting commentary from the last few posters

for shame

But then we would outshine your Dane Cook level of comedic proficiency.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 00:06

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

The real joke is that this guy is 20 years old, and if he did it in a non-execution state he's going to spend the next fifty years alone in segregated population since gen pop will rape and eventually kill him.

Which is cool with me, dude's a kiddie fucker.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 00:11

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

psydude posted:

Something about the area around Allentown. I went to college with a dude who got sent to prison for statutory rape of a 15 year old and providing alcohol to minors. . . in Allentown.

Well we're living here in Allentown
Where child rape and murder go down
Out in Pittston they have a good time
Using homes for rafts
And living in grime

Well Pennsylvania is a terrible place
An awful blight upon the human race
Hope that the nukes will hit there first
No value will be lost
From that place so accursed
And we're living here in Allentown

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 01:11

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Always wondered if ADA was a chill branch on account of being so small.

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 13:47

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Pesticide20 posted:

Why can't any of them ever get the tattoos finished?

What E2 do you know that can afford anything beyond the linework?

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 16:10

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Vasudus posted:

TRADOC combat engineer unit. You'll be training for things that you'll never use that went out of style in 1954.

It would be kinda cool to train for stuff like sabotaging rail lines and blowing up bridges even though you'll never use it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agznZBiK_Bs

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 16:41

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Painsaw posted:

TRADOC on Knox as a medic was actually fun because idiot LTs were always maiming themselves.

Truth

# ¿ Mar 17, 2015 21:59

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

LeoMarr posted:

I'd personally enjoy re-enacting A Bridge Too Far

Start smaller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRHVMi3LxZE

# ¿ Mar 18, 2015 01:39

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Everybody knows it's Man Love Thursday anyways

# ¿ Mar 20, 2015 19:25

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

How long is DS school? Assuming a month of terminal that leaves 6 months to PCS, go to school, then start a tour before getting out of there which is not a whole hell of a lot of time. Sounds like somebody hosed up or is trying to pressure him into reenlisting.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2015 16:17

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Changing my answer, maybe he pissed the wrong person off who now wants him to make basic the last thing he does before getting out.

# ¿ Mar 24, 2015 19:31

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

that av holy poo poo

I dare you to do better

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 02:35

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

at the date posted:

I saw the, literal, last SECOND, of a hajji, ABOUT TO DIE! on thermal camera from an Apache

Remember collateral murder? Nobody else does.

# ¿ Mar 25, 2015 04:50

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

What if the post commander's wife is a troll?

# ¿ Mar 27, 2015 01:59

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Maybe you staffers can shed light on this: how long do admin discharges take? Last time I heard from the Army was October-ish to sign my last OER.

# ¿ Mar 27, 2015 23:58

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

I was up for admin just as I hit my service obligation, and it was up in the air as to if I was getting sep'd or dropped to the IRR. After I cleared CIF the only contact I've had was to sign that OER. My address and contact info have stayed the same- doesn't HRC or somebody in the chain send you a letter if you're sep'd or switched to IRR?

# ¿ Mar 28, 2015 00:33

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Cole posted:

ki have no idae what therwad o'm posting in but the ambien has me khllucinating and the laptop is part of the e..... the letters are floating,.. this shis is siwie

Go to bed Cole :ohdear:

:ohdear:

# ¿ Mar 28, 2015 05:03

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Back when BOLC II existed our barracks were right next to the OCS ones. There were two OCS DFACs- a regular one and a fancier one with better food candidates got to use for the last week or two of school. We kept crashing the nice one since ours was sort of poo poo.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 15:06

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

BOLC II cadre and some ROTC units seemed to be the place terminal captains were sent to die. Guys who had a deployment in, didn't want to go to six months of career course, and were looking forward to the good life civilian side.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 15:16

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

One LT in my class had a Challenger and another had a used BMW. I was still driving my beater from college.

# ¿ Mar 29, 2015 19:08

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Armor school taught me what happens when 100+ guys run out of nicotine on day five of a twelve day FTX. Other highlights include: a Lebanese exchange officer shoving a Big Mac in my hand like it was drugs and telling me to eat before the cadre saw, volunteering for 2 AM nights shifts to smoke cigars and listen to Stevie Wonder so I could have some time to myself, and watching tanks break in every conceivable way. I think we had three complete engine replacements total during the exercise along with all the various track and suspension issues.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 01:14

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:

what if you dont smoke? (cigs or dicks)

non smokers get smoked when the smokes run out

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 01:58

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

psydude posted:

Oh wait, the post OEF/OIF world is stupid poo poo like going on ruck marches so I guess my post is invalid in TYOOL 2015.

Insha'Allah

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 02:36

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Active duty IBOLC students who don't desire to go to Ranger school have to give an in-person explanation to the IBLOC commander why.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 12:55

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

What are the specialty roles for companies in LI? I spent my life in a CAB, so doctrinally it was A&B running screens in brads/humvees and C&D running heavy with tanks.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 14:17

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

E was part of the BSB for us as well, and I think it's where the engineer attachments went too. HHC/HHT hate is a universal thing in line companies. Then you get up there after company time and find that you don't have a real job anymore.

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 14:53

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Cole posted:

hey buddy, when we were in afghanland we boarded a chinook and it took off and landed and we walked off that chinook and we called it an air assault mission

Must be nice to have a combat star on your air assault bad...ohhhhhhh

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-GaXa8tSBE

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 15:21

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

A mortar landed 6000 miles away from me, do I get a CAB?

# ¿ Mar 30, 2015 18:50

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Your thread was gassed for missing ringtones

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anCVuxP9NA0

BARNABY JONES

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 00:59

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

Army Thread - no felons (OK some felons)

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 17:34

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# ¿ May 17, 2024 16:08

EBB: Feb 15, 2005

LeoMarr posted:

Alright guys, we're going to let in NON-VIOLENT felons into the army. What do we mean by non violent? well did you actUally kill someone? No? OK why are you bringing it up then, lets go talk about it over some applebees.

What's up with your autoban?

# ¿ Apr 2, 2015 21:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Internet VFW > Army Thread - These people already don't give a fuck about me

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