Magic: The Gathering: Megathread: Spoiler Argument Stadium

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qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

I apparently missed pages of argument over new Sidisi, so I'll just say that upon first look, she seems loving awesome and I can't wait to text her out. 4/6 Deathtouch for 5 is already very solid value, and the exploit makes her nuts, especially post board when your deck is potentially full of silver bullets.

The white 7cmc return permanent to battlefield I'm less hot on, as that's an expensive cost for a not very consistent effect. It's not easy to manipulate your graveyard to have 2 permanents worth that cost.

Are new Silumgar and old Silumgar affected by the Legendary rule?

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 21:18

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 09:12

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

BJPaskoff posted:

Is there a reason this doesn't say "creatures you control with flying have haste"? It's going to be annoying explaining to people that when they turn their manifested dragon face up, it doesn't gain haste.

Because Hushwing Gryff don't give a gently caress.

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 21:54

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Barry Shitpeas posted:

The way exploit is worded, it seems like it's two separate triggers. If you remove the exploit creature in response to the first trigger, can you still get the second trigger for the exploit effect?

If they kill the creatures in response to the Exploit trigger on the stack, you won't get the effect, but you will get to choose whether or not to sacrifice. If they remove the creature after the 1st trigger resolves but with the 2nd trigger on the stack, you get the effect.

I can see an edge case where a player might want to do something between the two triggers, depending on what creature gets sacrificed.

I guess if there's a really good Exploit card in the set that's Legacy playable, a card like Stifle would be a huge blowout.

qbert fucked around with this message at 23:58 on Mar 2, 2015

# ¿ Mar 2, 2015 23:55

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Rinkles posted:

Which begs the question of why it's formated that way. It seems very "feel bad" and unintuitive for the unsuspecting caster.

Also another question. I didn't realize Exploit allowed you to sacrifice the creature you just cast. Will the 2nd triggered ability even go on the stack if you choose to say, cast Sidisi and then sac it to its own Exploit trigger?

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 00:01

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Rinkles posted:

It will. According to Gottlieb:"yes, she can exploit herself"

Wow, that makes Exploit even more powerful than I thought.

New Sidisi is gonna be sweet.

I hope there's enough good Exploit cards for some kind of Sultai Exploit deck with Prophet of Kruphix.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 00:06

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Tim Raines IRL posted:

since Hero's Downfall was printed as a promo in the FRF clash pack, does that mean it will remain legal in standard until FRF cycles out?

No. Clash packs have nothing to do with card legality in Standard.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 01:30

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

rabidsquid posted:

There were some cards that weren't in the last core set that are currently legal, where did they come from? Like I know Serra Angel and Sengir Vampire are legal right now but not in M15 or Theros or Khans.

They're technically part of M15 so they're legal, it's just the only way to get an M15 version is from a sample deck.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 01:45

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Symphonie posted:

This card is really good. I'm just imagining it in R/W alongside Valorous Stance.

4/4 Flying for 4 is already great in Red. The fact that a lot of the time it's a virtual 2-for-1 with the 2nd card being Lightning Strike makes it extra sweet.

qbert fucked around with this message at 04:38 on Mar 3, 2015

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 04:34

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Elyv posted:

Excluding Dragon tribal shenanigans, I don't think this card is Standard playable because it's worse than Ashcloud Phoenix.

It's not worse than Ashcloud Phoenix. This card dodges almost all burn-based removal except for Stoke, as well as dodging Bile Blight. Also you would much rather play this dude against any deck with Polukranos. I also think the more aggressive decks would prefer the 3 damage over resiliency in their dudes in a lot of matchups.

They both have their pros and cons and which one you play will probably end up being a meta call. Personally I think this guy ends up getting played in Standard, easy.

qbert fucked around with this message at 05:02 on Mar 3, 2015

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 04:59

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

jassi007 posted:

It is even better, a japanese player said it is actually

Should easily slide into a deck with stormbreath for bonus shenanigans.

A great value Red creature that ALSO makes Stormbreath even BETTER?

I know what I'm playing when Dragons comes out.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 05:04

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

TheKingofSprings posted:

This card seems really good for what red normally gets, but I think Ashcloud might still be more playable in standard. I guess it comes down to whether a 2/2 body that becomes more relevant late game is better or worse than a lightning strike(s) to the face.

Absolutely. But if there's one color that usually doesn't want to play a late game, it's red, and that's a big part of why this card shines.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 05:20

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Symphonie posted:

now argue about this one

This card's about as good as the multicolored counterspell.

Will never be played in Standard or even Limited maindecks.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 07:24

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Mikujin posted:

Did Renounce the Guilds even see play the first time around? Because I can't see Renounce the Guilds 2: Dragon Boogaloo being much better.

Renounce the Guilds was a super fringe sideboard card in U/W control when Obzedat was at peak popularity because U/W Control had literally zero answers to that guy.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 07:26

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

New Shaman + In Garruk's Wake.

Wizards, how dare you print a 2 card combo :argh:

...That costs 20 mana and a bunch of other creatures.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 19:55

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

rabidsquid posted:

UW control needs a 2 CMC creature so that one of the modes isn't dead. Unfortunately yet again Wizards chooses to callously leave Wall of Omens out of Standard.

Actually, Omenspeaker wouldn't be a terrible choice.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 20:03

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Terrible Horse posted:

In terms of sweepers and finishers, UB and UW are pretty even. I think its just cheap white removal that's holding UW back.

B also has access to Thoughtseize and a cheap, solid threat in Ashiok.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 20:07

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

rabidsquid posted:

Every creature that is not Wall of Omens is in fact, bad.

Wall of Blossoms is so salty right now.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 20:11

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Owen's tweets alternate between super whiny and trying to hit on Taylor Swift.

# ¿ Mar 3, 2015 20:48

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Count Bleck posted:

It's weird because I get this tingling sensation in my hand and I don't understand why.

But every time I've trusted it there's a loving foil in the pack.

Early symptoms of hypertension. Consult your physician.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 04:17

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Does Rebound still trigger if the spell is countered?

Edit: Nevermind, I see the "as it resolves" part.

qbert fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Mar 4, 2015

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 19:37

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Symphonie posted:

This card seems quite good in mono-R.You could do much worse than top-decking this when trying to eek out that last bit of damage in the mid-game.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 20:46

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

goferchan posted:

That is not a bad one-drop to topdeck, wow

Also just realized how good it is against control. Dash means it doesn't get hit by a sweeper like Crux or Drown, they actually have to spend a Downfall or counterspell on it, which is just value town.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 20:50

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Will Narset's -2 work with Temporal Trespass? The card is going to the exile zone either way.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 21:40

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

I wonder if the Exile effect was tacked onto Trespass for Narset? Otherwise it seems kind of a pointless restriction.

Doesn't Wizards just make it a rule to exile every "Take and extra turn" spell these days? All the Commander players who have to deal with Time Warp complained.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 22:07

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Big Ol Marsh Pussy posted:

If you cast Treasure Cruise delving away all the other Cruises in your graveyard do you lose 10 to the new kolaghan?

No, because Kolaghan only affects creature/planeswalker spells?

Edit: Wow, a lot of people above me don't know how the card works.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 22:09

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

That's because nobody cares about the dollar Mythic's trinket text ability

Could you please post a complete price guide for all the spoilered cards so far, I want to budget out my next month thanks.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 22:18

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

I don't get it.

Please stop declaring the price of a card 5 seconds after it's spoiled. It's annoying.

Edit: For actualy discussion, I think new Narset is insane and you're vastly undervaluing her.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 22:33

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

Narset: 10 dollar card.

Hey remember when Ugin was spoiled and I had to point out to you that he'd be played in U/B Control and you were doubtful of that?

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 22:41

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

Well, obviously, you are smarter and better at Magic than I am; I imagine you are also better looking.

I will now (not) stop providing extensive reasons why this card doesn't slot right into an already non-competitive deck.

You're right, it's more beneficial to the thread to actually discuss the merits (or lack thereof) of U/W Control.

In my opinion, U/W is still a perfectly viable color combination for control right now, but the biggest thing standing in its way was that U/B was just better. Narset (and maybe that new Command card) have the potential to tip that balance. U/W doesn't have access to the good removal and hand disruption that black provides, but it does get to play Elspeth, which is just a powerful enough catch-all card that it might be worth the trade off.

Narset fills the same slot Jace, AoT did in a lot of ways, and what Ashiok does right now in U/B, namely, drawing combat damage away from you and towards it, and providing incremental card advantage. You know how hard it is to kill Ashiok via pure combat damage if it comes down on T3. Narset is the same for T4. NO opponent will ignore Narset while she's on the board and they know you're playing control.

Narset's ceiling seems much higher than Ashiok or Jace, AoT, however. Using her -2 on ANY draw spell in your deck is insane (even Divination). The biggest liability with End Hostilities or Crux right now is that they deploy a big threat after you have to tap out for it on T5. Narset allows a sweeper effect 2 turns in a row, giving the control player time to untap and hold counterspells up, or just deploy Elspeth for defense. Her +1 will be just as good as Domri's +1 was in Standard, which was nuts. It also makes your fetches slightly better, as if you know your top card is a land, you can crack to not draw it next turn.

4 mana, starts at 7 loyalty, every ability is good. This card will make U/W Control A THING again.

# ¿ Mar 4, 2015 23:08

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

Risen Executioner
Creature - Zombie Warrior
Risen Executioner can't block.
Other Zombie creatures you control get +1/+1.
You may cast Risen Executioner from your graveyard if you pay an additional (1) for each other creature card in your graveyard.

Really not liking this guy. First off he can't block, which is a big reason you would even care about a creature that can return itself from the graveyard. So his only use is offense, but at 4CMC the more aggressive decks won't necessarily want him. Not to mention that the more aggressive the deck, the more likely this guy will cost more to cast from the yard.

Seems like the definition of a creature Wizards was overly cautious in nerfing.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 00:39

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Prediction: Bloodsoaked Champion becomes even better now with Exploit.

More Exploit spoilers please.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 01:00

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Corte posted:

Looking for some opinions on Monastery Mentor, I have one and some other white and red stuff that I could build a standard deck around but I don't want to invest in 1-3 more if it's not going to be a staple in decks that I play white in or hold its value.

Unless you're playing Jeskai Tokens it's one of those cards you could play, or you could replace it for another powerful 3-drop depending on your preference. Definitely not a must have in the R/W deck.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 01:12

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

If you decide to play new Zurgo in your deck, of course you have to play at least 3x. He's so much worse anywhere but the opening hand.

But actually between him and Lightning Berserker, Mono-R is going to get pretty nuts when Dragons comes out. I'm thinking Dragon Fodder might even see some play, because Foundry Street into Fodder seems great.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 20:42

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

Sligh's problem isn't the available card quality. Its that there's a shitload of answers to Mono-R.

The deck still wins A LOT. Also you're ignoring that the new good cards in question DODGE Drown in Sorrow and Anger.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 20:49

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Angry Grimace posted:

Back up the train there a bit, everything about Magic is worth discussion in the Magic topic. Dash avoids Drown and Anger, but I think that's less of a benefit than you're imagining because the dash sucks in a deck with 18 lands in it.

I don't know how well you've kept up with the archetype, but I haven't seen a Mono-R deck play only 18 lands in a long time.

Secondly, if you're not trying to stifle discussion on the deck, then perhaps don't just reply with "whole deck dies to Drown, moving on".

You're treating Dash like either the pilot will play 1 creature the whole game, or vomit out their entire hand. It's actually possible to play strategically and offer enough threats early on that need to be answered with a Drown or they die, yet still hold back significant hasty threats post-wipe to finish them off.

qbert fucked around with this message at 20:55 on Mar 5, 2015

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 20:53

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Weird. There's already alternate art version of Dragonlord's Servant?

https://twitter.com/marshall_lr/status/573554454651273216

http://mythicspoiler.com/dtk/cards/dragonlordsservant.html

Is there like a whole comic strip of this little dude's adventures?

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 21:23

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Cernunnos posted:

That's the one that's in the set proper. The other one we saw earlier was the alternate art one you can get from the dice game at Pre-release.

Ah, gotcha. Looking at the promos, I really like the buy-a-box Ojutai's Command. Reminds me of snow-covered lands.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 21:34

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Rinkles posted:

Art for upcoming spoiler

I would guess that's the Force of Will reprint, but since we already got the art for that, my money's on Misty Rainforest.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2015 23:31

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Irony Be My Shield posted:

Could Stratus Dancer be playable in a control sideboard or a tempo deck? A Welkin Tern without the drawback is an OK turn two play, and then later on it can be a negate attached to a reasonable body.

I actually think it's a good sideboard card against the mirror in control decks. The other control player would have likely sided out most of their removal, so either it hits a good spell, or it eats a Downfall, both of which are pretty solid value.

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 02:47

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 09:12

qbert: Oct 23, 2003; It's both thrilling and terrifying.

Dohaeris posted:

Terrible new player question. Been working on constructing a Sultai Control deck since I got an Ugin out of my first draft ever the other day. Looking around online, I see land looking a lot like this a lot:
2 Island
3 Swamp
2 Llanowar Wastes
4 Opulent Palace
4 Polluted Delta
2 Temple of Deceit
4 Temple of Malady
1 Temple of Mystery
2 Yavimaya Coast
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth

Often there's 1 Bloodstained Mire as well.

What's the purpose for the Yavimaya, Llanowar and the Mire? Why not throw in different scry or the life gain lands? I actually have all of that except for the 4 Temple of Malady, which I'm replacing with a Jungle Hollow at the moment.

Also, Mindscour Dragon is hilarious and has performed very well for me in my drafting so far.

Usually pain lands in place of Scry or Gain lands is because you want a certain ratio of lands that come into play untapped in order to not lose tempo. If you need to cast a Bile Blight on Turn 2 or a 3-drop on Turn 3, that becomes hard when all but 5 of your lands come into play tapped. Bloodstained Mire is solely there to further enable your delve spells. Also provides a slight benefit when you have Courser out and need to shuffle away a useless card on top of your deck.

qbert fucked around with this message at 03:48 on Mar 6, 2015

# ¿ Mar 6, 2015 03:46

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Traditional Games > Magic: The Gathering: Megathread: Spoiler Argument Stadium

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