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Yeah looking back at marvel TV, the majority was mediocre to painful. JJ season one was probably the standout of the Netflix stuff but I was a fan of alias and it sort of did that book justice compared to most adaptations. Second place was d'onofrio stuff on daredevil and a few long take fight scenes, otherwise pretty eh. Punisher season 1 was watchable at times despite dragging the hell out of the season with some pretty pointless subplot stuff. Luke cage season one was also super uneven but had a watchable first half. That leaves what 12 thirteen hour or so seasons of slog? Yeesh. Still, having watched stuff like inhumans and The gifted the marvel TV bar could get much much lower, so silver linings I guess. Ultimately legion was the most interesting thing they did imo but even that had some ridiculous moments. Literally citizen Kane compared to the rest of it E: cloak and dagger also had its moments but the leads did all the heavy lifting. Having actual chemistry made that show better then it had any reason to be (let's not get carried away though) zer0spunk fucked around with this message at 04:20 on Oct 20, 2020 |
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Oct 20, 2020 04:15
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Netflix/Marvel is so weird to me. Season 1 of DD, Punisher, JJ and LC (until Cottonmouth dies) were all pretty solid imo. I didn't hate Iron Fist as much as most goons, but Defenders was a stunning letdown. DD and Punisher are still the only ones I've watched the follow up seasons for, I still haven't watched S2/3 of JJ, S2 of IF or LC or S3 of DD. Defenders really just broke my ability to give a poo poo somehow.
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Oct 20, 2020 07:06
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zer0spunk posted:Still, having watched stuff like inhumans lol I enjoy the fact when folks talk about what the bad bits of Marvel TV were they don't even mention Inhumans for the most part  I could find scraps of entertainment in all the other Marvel shows, but Inhumans? I think I got one genuine 'hah cool' in the whole thing (where Bolt walks out without paying the commoners for his suit, gets tazed and blows a cop car away)
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Oct 20, 2020 23:11
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zer0spunk posted:Yeah looking back at marvel TV, the majority was mediocre to painful. I agree. Definitely, the pacing was awful for all of them, even DD S1. Not a single season of any of them needed to be 13 episodes, and I've never heard anyone disagree with that thought. It seems like 8-10 episode seasons have become the norm for streaming shows since, and that would've done wonders for pretty much every one of these. JJ S1 is the one I recall the most fondly, just because it was the most *about* something of any of them. It'd be so easy to make a female-lead superhero show and fall back onto a sort of lazy empowerment theater (the "she's got help" scene from Endgame), but JJ dove headfirst into trauma and rape culture. It was genuinely about feminist topics, in a challenging and confrontational way. Kilgrave is easily the most menacing villain in a Marvel thing, because of how on point that season was at depicting the disempowerment and violation that his victims felt. It's some top tier stuff...if only they didn't have to spin their wheels for so many episodes in the middle. Punisher S1 was super impressive to me, on similar grounds. They could've made a shallow exploitation revenge fantasy and left it that. Instead, they made a really sobering story about PTSD. It was great.
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Oct 21, 2020 01:18
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I think that's one of the most disappointing things about LC, to me. It's a show with black characters and occasionally comes up to the line of confronting race issues and then backs away before it gets too real.
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Oct 21, 2020 03:29
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A fun fact is that the Marvel jobs were notoriously among the most difficult NYC shows to film in terms of hours (lots of overnights), logistically challenging schedules, and heavily outdoor with NY’s terrible weather in some of the busiest and least controllable neighborhoods in the city. It was very common (in most departments) to start at 4:30 Monday morning and wrap the week on Saturday two hours after sunrise. Union rules make filming more than five days per week prohibitively expensive, but nothing prevents that kind of call time slippage into Fraturdays.
theflyingexecutive fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 06:10
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Cottonmouth was such a good character. His death might be top 10 disappointing tv moments to me.
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Oct 21, 2020 06:18
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Mahershala Ali is way too good of actor to burn on a marvel TV show. Hope he gets a shot in a movie
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Oct 21, 2020 06:24
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Isn't he Blade
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Oct 21, 2020 06:57
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Yeah, Ali is the new Blade.
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Oct 21, 2020 08:03
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theflyingexecutive posted:A fun fact is that the Marvel jobs were notoriously among the most difficult NYC shows to film in terms of hours (lots of overnights), logistically challenging schedules, and heavily outdoor with NY’s terrible weather in some of the busiest and least controllable neighborhoods in the city. It was very common (in most departments) to start at 4:30 Monday morning and wrap the week on Saturday two hours after sunrise. Union rules make filming more than five days per week prohibitively expensive, but nothing prevents that kind of call time slippage into Fraturdays. Actually shooting these in NY instead of Canada or the LA New York Backlot was one of the few positives. One of my fav stories comes from dd season 2. My buddy was day playing for 52 on electric side, like most of us he had this notion that union crew = cream of the crop (lol). He's setting one of the twenty million rooftop par cans they used on daredevil and he sees a guy in his 60s and a guy in his 20s. My buddy, who has been actively trying to get his union card or even be able to apply starts up a convo with the old timer. Guy's been union for decades blah blah, he then asks oh what about the kid next to you. Dude replies oh him? That's my pizza guy, they needed bodies. My friend said he could feel the moment his soul left his body. That story also made me realize union doesn't mean poo poo, later corroborated by the newly formed "tier 0"  The other cool thing about marvel Netflix was they'd usually keep the same folks show to show, my friends in hmu on luke all also did iron fist. Those shows employed a lot of people.
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Oct 21, 2020 12:46
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Q_res posted:Netflix/Marvel is so weird to me. Season 1 of DD, Punisher, JJ and LC (until Cottonmouth dies) were all pretty solid imo. I didn't hate Iron Fist as much as most goons, but Defenders was a stunning letdown. DD and Punisher are still the only ones I've watched the follow up seasons for, I still haven't watched S2/3 of JJ, S2 of IF or LC or S3 of DD. The first half of punisher season 2 was alright (and one episode in particular, I think #3, was a solid western movie that you could probably watch standalone) but once they got back to NY I lost interest. Having him deal with an annoying teenage brat sidekick the whole time didn't help any. Daredevil season 3 was like a greatest hits collection of season 1 and first half of season 2 stuff. A lot of things we liked, but remixed in a way that doesn't quite capture the same magic. As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Oct 21, 2020 |
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Oct 21, 2020 13:23
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I have watched Defenders all the way through twice and I don't remember anything except that it had something to do with The Hand and Sigourney Weaver. I watched the 2nd time because I realized that I couldn't remember anything about the 1st time. It just can't keep my attention at all. I end up poo poo posting here or loving around with a game or something. I still have no idea how the series resolved whatever the conflict was.
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Oct 22, 2020 19:27
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madame gao's smug smile across the various series became a running joke with my friends and i.
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Oct 22, 2020 19:56
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I'm still annoyed they made Madame Gao a member of The Hand.
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Oct 22, 2020 20:38
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Inspector 34 posted:I have watched Defenders all the way through twice and I don't remember anything except that it had something to do with The Hand and Sigourney Weaver. I watched the 2nd time because I realized that I couldn't remember anything about the 1st time. It just can't keep my attention at all. I end up poo poo posting here or loving around with a game or something. I still have no idea how the series resolved whatever the conflict was. Oh, I think you mean Istanbul
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Oct 22, 2020 20:42
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I think Defenders is worse than Iron Fist because at least Iron Fist has Ward Meachum.
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Oct 22, 2020 20:44
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zer0spunk posted:Actually shooting these in NY instead of Canada or the LA New York Backlot was one of the few positives. I’m definitely not bashing the first job to ever give me film work, they were just notoriously hard, with punishing (heh) hours and locations. Those definitely meant you got better looking shots; watch an episode of Blacklist and all of your baddies of the week are gallivanting and killing in broad daylight but the crew makes it home by 9p every Friday. As for the 52 stuff, there’s miles of difference between u ion and nonunion crews. DDS2 happened right at the NY film explosion. Chris Christie ended the NJ tax credit and productions were scrambling for everyone with a heartbeat with NY’s very generous one. Sure, Additional Lamp Op #17 may not know much more than how to coil wires, but there’s a very deep bench of talent from the L&O-and-that’s-it days as well as people upgrading from the NM and Louisiana scenes, which ebb and flow.
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Oct 23, 2020 01:04
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Another thing I want to pay tribute to is the Getty Oil Terminal, the most scenic industrial backwash ever to exist. They’re tearing down the big stacks and I’m going to miss it. I believe every single Marvel show filmed there (it’s a three minute van from the stages) and you could find spent blanks everywhere from all the gun fights.
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Oct 23, 2020 01:07
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Inspector 34 posted:I have watched Defenders all the way through twice and I don't remember anything except that it had something to do with The Hand and Sigourney Weaver. I watched the 2nd time because I realized that I couldn't remember anything about the 1st time. It just can't keep my attention at all. I end up poo poo posting here or loving around with a game or something. I still have no idea how the series resolved whatever the conflict was. Sigourney Weaver is in New York, dealing with a unique building with an ancient history, and is trying to find a keymaster to unlock something for her. Only Rick Moranis, Bill Murray, and Dan Akroyd aren't there to make it interesting. Also, the villains listened to the Doc Terminus song "every little piece" and took it literally. As Nero Danced fucked around with this message at 04:48 on Oct 23, 2020 |
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Oct 23, 2020 04:46
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Defenders had the same issue as everything else - Elektra ruins everything she touches. DD season 2 is excellent until the exact moment she shows up and then the show careens off a cliff.
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Oct 23, 2020 04:59
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What was the point of a Black Sky person anyways? In DD season 1 Stick acts like if the kid sees the light of day then it's going to start raining blood and buildings will explode. In that show she just sort of stumbles around like an amnesiac zombie.
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Oct 23, 2020 05:03
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She zombie kicks their rear end for a bit until a building falls on her and mat.
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Oct 23, 2020 05:21
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The only iconic scenes from Defenders (as in stick to memory) would have to be everyone cussing at each other in a Chinese restaurant, and some weird roaming camera fight sequence in a cave that mostly stuck to memory for being vaguely interesting. Sigourney Weaver tried doing her hardass thing, and would have succeeded too if the writing team put any effort forward for her to chew up.
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Oct 23, 2020 14:03
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Andrigaar posted:The only iconic scenes from Defenders (as in stick to memory) would have to be everyone cussing at each other in a Chinese restaurant, This scene had Stick, so that fits.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:45
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Andrigaar posted:The only iconic scenes from Defenders (as in stick to memory) would have to be everyone cussing at each other in a Chinese restaurant, and some weird roaming camera fight sequence in a cave that mostly stuck to memory for being vaguely interesting. You left out the RTJ fight scene that starts with Danny being dumb and then you eventually get all four of them in by the end of it. (just the beginning of it) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1jWJkRXEj8 It's way better than the final fight and I actually was feeling good about the series after this ep and during the Chinese restaurant stuff that follows...then it got terminally stupid.
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Oct 23, 2020 17:51
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Lid posted:Defenders had the same issue as everything else - Elektra ruins everything she touches. DD season 2 is excellent until the exact moment she shows up and then the show careens off a cliff. this character will never get any justice in live-action form. ironic cuz "Elektra: Assassin" is right there! point of no return/femme nikita/long kiss goodnight exists, people can accept the premise..just make this already and double down on the surrealism of legion..the one show that wasn't a chore...
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Oct 23, 2020 18:13
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All they needed was the ninja turtles to meet DD just like the comics and the whole season would have been saved.
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Oct 23, 2020 18:30
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Invalid Validation posted:All they needed was the ninja turtles to meet DD just like the comics and the whole season would have been saved. Yeah but then it would probably turn out like the Saban series of ninja turtles where they can't see out of the costumes. Wait that'd make them get along even more with Matt
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Oct 23, 2020 18:35
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As Nero Danced posted:What was the point of a Black Sky person anyways? In DD season 1 Stick acts like if the kid sees the light of day then it's going to start raining blood and buildings will explode. In that show she just sort of stumbles around like an amnesiac zombie. It's very obvious whatever the initial idea they had for Black Sky it was rewritten to a much dumber and less interesting concept. Kind of like everything about The Hand.
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Oct 23, 2020 18:39
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I suspect they didn't have any plan for Black Sky beyond looking for a reason to have Stick want to kill a kid. Making Elektra a Black Sky flowed from there because of course you want an instance of the pro kid murder guy going soft and protecting one kid.
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Oct 23, 2020 19:06
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In DD S2, Stick (I think) states that the danger of the Black Sky is that the Hand will feel so empowered by having her lead them that they will throw themselves into far more daring and dangerous schemes. In Defenders, most of the Hand seems completely indifferent towards her. Having Elektra become the new leader of the Hand would have been a lot more interesting than just making her a brainwashed assassin.
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Oct 23, 2020 19:20
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Lurdiak posted:It's very obvious whatever the initial idea they had for Black Sky it was rewritten to a much dumber and less interesting concept. Kind of like everything about The Hand. I liked how DD S1 handled the supernatural magic ninja poo poo. It was inscrutable and mysterious, had an occult Illuminati quality. Then DD S2 went full "inverse ninja law" and all the weight and mystery started to lift. By the time Iron Fist and Defenders happened, the architects of the spooky millennia-old magic ninja cult were revealed to be extremely boring and unambitious. Likewise K'un Lun and the "cities of heaven," which were mysterious and powerful-sounding entities that turn out to be completely irrelevant to anything or anyone. I'm doubtful that Shang-Chi is going to be much better in these regards. There'll be more money, I guess.
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Oct 23, 2020 19:30
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zer0spunk posted:this character will never get any justice in live-action form. ironic cuz "Elektra: Assassin" is right there! Legion had its problems but it really is the best realization of comics in a tv show, imo. The CW's wacky crossovers and constant resetting of canon definitely comes close, but the way Legion presented itself and wasn't afraid to get Weird As gently caress made it one of my favorite bits of media. The only upside to the oversaturation of superhero shows is that we're starting to get weird stuff in the margins like Legion or Doom Patrol, and that wouldn't be a thing if all these marvel shows hadn't come out and kinda sucked but a lot of people watched them anyway.
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Oct 23, 2020 19:59
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Xealot posted:I liked how DD S1 handled the supernatural magic ninja poo poo. It was inscrutable and mysterious, had an occult Illuminati quality. Then DD S2 went full "inverse ninja law" and all the weight and mystery started to lift. By the time Iron Fist and Defenders happened, the architects of the spooky millennia-old magic ninja cult were revealed to be extremely boring and unambitious. Likewise K'un Lun and the "cities of heaven," which were mysterious and powerful-sounding entities that turn out to be completely irrelevant to anything or anyone. My guess is there was a behind-the-scenes tug of war between going all-in on the more esoteric/supernatural aspects of those series and keeping them more "grounded" (read: boring) to fit in with the more street-level tone of the other two series, and grounded won.
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Oct 23, 2020 19:59
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As Nero Danced posted:What was the point of a Black Sky person anyways? In DD season 1 Stick acts like if the kid sees the light of day then it's going to start raining blood and buildings will explode. In that show she just sort of stumbles around like an amnesiac zombie. Black Skies are dangerous because they’re Asians that know martial arts, that’s the thesis of the shows.
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Oct 24, 2020 02:53
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Sounds racist, but then again one of my favorite objections to Iron Fist is that he's not asian and therefore shouldn't be good at martial arts
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Oct 24, 2020 19:14
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Too bad they couldn’t find a white guy who can karate AND act.
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Oct 24, 2020 21:37
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Invalid Validation posted:Too bad they couldn’t find a white guy who can karate AND act. It seemed like he couldn't do either
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Oct 24, 2020 22:05
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aparmenideanmonad posted:You left out the RTJ fight scene that starts with Danny being dumb and then you eventually get all four of them in by the end of it. God that scene just owns. Even bargain basement Danny Rand pulls it off here, everyone gets a win, that RTJ song is just  . Why couldn't it have been more of this?
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Oct 25, 2020 07:47
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