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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

toadee posted:

Kitakami got HE citadeled by Midway bombs. Literally useless pile of trash.


Oh, I didn't say last year's version attempt was good, just that it existed - and as such the idea that they'd never bring it back has been dead for a while now.

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Please note that in a recent Q&A by WG, they responded to a question asking how they choose which ships to rebalance, they gave a fairly boilerplate response of how they take into account all the various stats you expect (avg. wins, absolute/relative damage, # of ships sunk, etc.) and others in making their decisions.

Then they used Khaba and Zao as examples of where they disagree with the community on them needing buffs. For Khaba, they used a fairly reasonable argument that it became more effective once damage from large calibers was scaled back - whether you AGREE or not is a different matter, but on the surface at least it's a reasonable statement. For Zao on the other hand? Let me just post verbatim: "Zao is one of the leaders in terms of number of battles played on her." They used, in an official Q&A, "a launch ship has a bunch of battles played on her" as an example of why it doesn't need buffed.



No one in the actual gameplay department of WoWS has any loving clue what they're doing.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

To sum up some brief points...

-LWM and Chobi's work on "Something which is not Yukon" began after an NA office staff member talked to them and offered the collaboration way back well over a year before the release (1.5 years maybe? Covid completely threw off the original timetable). Incidentally, said NA staff member has apologized to them since, as far as I'm aware. It was interference from the corporate main office in St. Petersburg (not even the development section) which hosed everything up and resulted in the mess and abuse that followed. The general gist of WG's response was basically that it wasn't WG's fault that they thought that they were contributing something because there'd been no agreement, and when they proved that yes, they actually did have a signed contract it just changed to a different (still non-apologetic) tack - Obviously that was all done much more abusively than that relatively clean explanation.

-The recent final breaking points were WG lying on their Q&A to a question LWM posed that she specifically posed two answers to and asked which one was correct regarding the MO credit situation for long-time owners (they cited translation miscommunication later, because of course they did). And then her asking for three things to be done to prove WG was actually taking their promises to improve seriously. Sub_Octavian agreed with the first two, which were just words (a promise to work on WG's corporate culture, and updates on a supposedly upcoming ship that's ANOTHER piece of concern), but refused the only tangible one, which was to implement the camo that had been worked on by LWM/Chobi for Yukon to prove that at least some of their work wasn't going to waste. And then on the 12th she got viciously verbally abused by some WG employee on their Discord, and any sort of conciliatory gesture (along the lines of "sorry for that employee") was extremely slow in coming.

And so, she quit. And it's opened an avalanche of other CCs, major and minor, quitting as well.
Fairly recent list:

quote:

LittleWhiteMouse
TheMightyJingles
Flambass
iChase
Mr.Gibbins
DocBrighter
ClydeTheMonkey
Yuzral
Athotek101
Turry
Malimoo
Privateer
DobbyM8
BL4CK_SK
TheGrumpyBeard
ChaosMachineGR
Denarmo
Aetam
MageT

Several have already released videos, LWM has made some explanations on various social platforms, and more are coming. But the gist of it is that the CC program has been a disaster for a while now, with various CCs pointing to different (but probably related) things. iChase mentioned that their was an incredibly noticeable shift in the responses they were getting from WG management years ago, and speculated there may have been some change in the executive management. LWM more directly pointed to an issue in the CC program itself where it shifted, due to some dumbshit newly installed PR person, from a friendly, cooperative program for improving the game collectively for a while after launch into a vicious competition between CCs to see who actually got the rewards - basically promoting the confrontational, sensationalistic type of content that you started to see popping. And then, when some of said confrontational aggression started to get turned on WG - since, you know, at least some of that crowd actually wanted problems addressed and the game improved too - they basically just started ignoring the CCs entirely.


So like, for all I know WG's corporate culture is incredibly misogynistic (and yeah, it probably is), and said abuse of LWM may have tapped into that to add even more nasty comments to their diatribe, but said misogyny isn't WHY they completely ignored their work - that's just good old WG having just become a complete pile of poo poo that's been abusing all their CCs and basically ignoring practically all the work any of them are putting in. The Yukon saga was just a particularly egregious example done to one of their best.

Lord Koth fucked around with this message at 04:35 on Aug 16, 2021

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

What are you talking about? WG doubled down in their Q&A last week (after the previous "total games played matters, right?" one) that Zao is absolutely competitive in any game mode and has lots of great features which line up fine with the current state of the game, and thus needs no buffs whatsoever.



In other news, this is hilarious.


"Technical limitations," huh?

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

I'm legitimately not sure what those heavy cruisers designed for open water play are supposed to do these days, specifically the ones "protected" by 30mm armor. Which worked great back when the only ships that could overmatch that were Yamato and Republique. Now? Only 7 out of 17 (counting this new replacement) of the T10 battleships don't overmatch that, and two of those are Conqueror and Columbo - which also don't care because HE/SAP.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

wdarkk posted:

Petro nerf is to the wrong thing, it needs to sit higher in the water.

Also :laffo: that I don't think the Zao got back all the hp it lost.

It didn't, the original amount lost was ~4000 so this is roughly half of that. I seriously suspect this is literally just deliberate mockery by the dev team.



go for a stroll posted:

I don't know if WG is big enough to have a lot of design people separate from the code touchers, but I would absolutely never play a game I was a developer on for fun. Any project this size is just a collection of bugs and hacks once you've seen it up close.

The problem is that for a competitive multiplayer game, if your dev team isn't testing/playing it themselves they need to be talking to people who ARE playing it seriously and can identify the problematic aspects. And WG absolutely isn't doing that either.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

kaesarsosei posted:

The image of WG is so bad that people actually believe this - not having a pop, you certainly aren't alone in thinking like this.

The thing is, a few months ago I actually would have been willing to just attribute it to their seeming complete lack of ability to competently balance ships. But between then and now we've had not one but two Q&As where Zao's come up with them going "it's fine" due to completely irrelevant statistics or other reasons - stats you shouldn't even have to play a MP game to understand are utterly worthless - along with that recent incident on the RU side where the CC Tury left and they immediately released a bonus code that included "FKUTURY" in it among other things. And that's on the public side, not even getting into the various poo poo being done internally like what contributed to the mass exodus of CCs on the NA server.

Like, they're not even pretending to be professional anymore on any level.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

I'm just bitterly laughing at the recent ship announcement where they announced YET ANOTHER Soviet T10 premium cruiser, as well as the very first premium submarine - also Soviet, of course. This makes loving 6 unique Soviet T10 cruisers, compared to the US/UK who have a whole 4 (not counting Alaska B), and less for everyone else. At least the sub's real and a museum ship, but lol at what it is - they chose a loving Whiskey-class launched in '54, and it's a T8.

I haven't played in a while and recently uninstalled because I needed the space immediately, but I just keep hoping they actually improve the game again, and WG just keeps disappointing.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

Stanley Pain posted:

This sounds like you haven't played any multiplayer game in the last decade or so where team A is shooting team B. It's sad as heck but a large majority of players have the situational awareness of a rock.

Be kind... a rock occasionally falls on someone if they start poking (shooting) it with something. If rocks were like players in this game, they'd start rolling back uphill when that happened.

Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

I mean, we're not even a week out from this gem:

quote:


Due to the interaction patterns of the submarines, they often accidentally detect each other. This causes them to get caught in an air strike and also forces them to engage in a duel without being able to get out of it safely. Disabling guaranteed detection will make submarine play more comfortably, and in case you want to attack an enemy sub, you will be able to use the Low Frequency Hydrophone.


To say nothing of the two loving premium subs being tested with 40kt+ underwater speed and 10km hydro respectively. It's almost like sane ship design and overall class balancing goes completely out the window or something for CVs and subs. Admittedly it's not been particularly great in general for a while.

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Lord Koth
Jan 8, 2012

This devblog's just hilarious in how full of bullshit it is.

https://blog.worldofwarships.com/blog/377

Seriously, just read this section.

quote:


"The subs have come a long way in testing — almost three years since the concept was created. Finally, only about a year ago, subs were added to Random Battles, where we, based on your battles, brought them up to release-ready status. That's a long way to go for developing one ship type, and we needed to move on. Thus the next step is getting the submarines into early access. "

Just read those last two sentences and think about it for a moment.

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