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Will it help stymie the hand-wringing in this thread to point out that Arglebargle's point is really just the kernel of moral skepticism? That human life has no objective value because there is not such thing as Value out there in the world to quantify is hardly a new idea, or a terrifying one that you could only expect psychopaths to hold. I mean, yes, they're being a bit of a smug poo poo about it, but their argument doesn't warrant the fussbaggery that's being displayed. We can value things without thinking there is a universalisable reason for valuing it without society and all ethics crumbling. Read some John Mackie and calm the gently caress down, people.
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Mar 22, 2015 07:48
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Rakosi posted:Ad hominem much? I don't have any dreams of that at all; it was a hypothetical situation and I was being honest about my likely reaction, and whether or not people not in that position would have a right to criticize. Nobody gives a flying gently caress who you would or wouldn't murder though so why don't you shut up?
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Mar 22, 2015 09:19
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Effectronica posted:So you've finally come around to the idea that murder is a crime against a person, eh? But an eye for an eye blinds us all, and it in turn denies the possibility of forgiveness. So where does that end? What kind of society would we have if we denied forgiveness and focused on revenge? Uh, our current one basically. I don't want to live in a more bloodthirsty society either, but you're not showing everybody how much better your set of values is than that of someone who does with silly platitudes. Somfin posted:But what good would it do? What positive impact can there be from retribution? Once we burn off that initial rush of adrenaline, what is left but a void? Would it not be better to see someone who has done terrible things rehabilitated and restored to a place in the community? Not necessarily to all people. Why is it so hard to deal with the fact that a lot of people don't value human life and forgiveness as highly as you do? It scares the poo poo out of you, but it's the case in the here and now. It's not degeneracy. It doesn't create Hell on Earth. Don't scare yourself into thinking that just because because someone has a stronger retributive drive than you do that they can't control their impulses in that regard.
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Mar 22, 2015 19:41
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Somfin posted:Is there some long-term benefit of retribution over rehabilitation that I'm missing, here? No. What you are missing is the possibility of placing some personal value on retribution while not being anywhere near so stupid as to think it should have anything to do with criminal justice.
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Mar 22, 2015 20:46
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Blue Raider posted:like my functional example is that texan farmer who killed the dude he caught molesting his daughter. that was good, and right, and good on him for having the stones to be a man about it This is one of the more hilarious examples of an idiot's bare-faced misogyny I've seen this week.
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Mar 22, 2015 22:56
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Blue Raider posted:glad to oblige, ill have to up my game though because i wasnt really even trying Super edgy bro we're all majorly impressed 
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Mar 22, 2015 23:22
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Somfin posted:All right. I agree. Some people value the idea of retribution. Though I do not agree with them, I sympathise with them, as I mentioned. If you believe that retribution should have nothing to do with criminal justice, then we agree on that point as well. Where to from here? Why does it need to go anywhere else? This whole discussion is pretty facile.
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Mar 23, 2015 00:54
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