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For personal reasons I find it interesting when someone calls a character out for being inconsistent, because that has two connotations and I'd like to know which one you mean. You suggested that Gainer is inconsistent between episodes. Removing yourself from the equation (i.e. don't ask: "What would I do if I were Gainer") do you think Gainer is an inconsistently written character or do you believe Gainer is being portrayed as an inconsistent individual? To elaborate: If Gainer is inconsistently written it means his character either hasn't been fully thought out (yet) or whose motivation changes from episode to episode or even during the episode completely at random depending on who's writing him. Examples of this would be Captain Janeway from Star Trek Voyager, Fezarl Ezelcant and Zeheart "I know the names of all my soldiers and would never send them to die needlessly unless they're a woman" Galette from Gundam AGE, or pretty much every character from a BioWare game. If Gainer is being portrayed as an inconsistent individual, it means that his motivation and personality is largely consistent but he (as a character) either doesn't know what he wants or how to go about achieving what he wants. Essentially that inconsistency is intentional and part of his character (likely a flaw) that he is struggling to overcome. Examples of inconsistent individuals would be Bellri Zenam from Recongista in G or Shou Zama from the first ten or so episodes of Aura Battler Dunbine. As a follow-up, if you feel Gainer is being written inconsistently why does he give you that impression? Alternatively if you feel he is being intentionally written as an inconsistent person, what narrative purpose do you think that lends to the story so far?
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Mar 25, 2015 03:11
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Ok, so speaking hypothetically: If Gainer is an inconsistent individual, what purpose (if any) do you feel that serves at this point in the story? Edit: wording PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Mar 25, 2015 |
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Mar 25, 2015 03:35
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I understand it's a hard question, and it's not even necessarily one you have to answer right away. I'm genuinely interested in your answer and there is no "right" or "wrong" way to answer. I just want to know, as someone who's never seen Overman King Gainer, what Gainer's inconsistencies tell you about him as a character. So keep that question in the back of your mind as you watch the next few episodes. In my experience if a character is being written as an inconsistent person there's almost always a reason behind it, and when it's the main character that reason is usually central to the show. I can tell you what I think that reason is but I don't want to influence any conclusions you may draw, so if you feel like trying to answer again later (or even at the end of the show itself) I'd be interested in seeing your thoughts. Again: this is a question that you can't get "wrong."
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Mar 25, 2015 04:25
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ClawShrimpy, after watching more of your reviews I have some advice for you that should instantly make you a better poster: Every time you want to use the word 'Evil', unless you're directly talking about Nazis, replace the word 'evil' with the phrase 'morally questionable' (if it's a decision you don't agree with on moral grounds) or 'morally objectionable' (if it's an action you don't agree with on moral grounds). Very few people are going to argue that Gain hasn't done some morally questionable and morally objectionable things. He has and will likely continue to do so because he feels the potential good (freeing everyone from an oppressive regime, letting everyone live freely in the manner of their choosing) is worth more than his own morality. Whether Gain's motivation is selfish (proving his parents right) or selfless (a general desire to help people), he is sacrificing his own morality for the sake of others, which many people could (and do) see as a heroic act (depending on the circumstances). One of Tomino's common themes is: imperfect people making imperfect decisions in an imperfect world. Whether the choices made by those imperfect people are ultimately beneficial is usually left to the viewer to decide but in my experience making that decision before a Tomino show is complete or nearly complete is usually a bad idea. The man loves his last-minute surprises. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 13:21 on Mar 27, 2015 |
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Mar 27, 2015 13:18
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I'm really surprised you could tolerate Robotech given than the main character is a pedophile.
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Mar 28, 2015 19:38
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And since Gundam is based on the WWII Japanese Navy things like officers punching their subordinates to "correct" or "motivate" them is just a thing that happens. Early UC Gundam also, at least in part, seems to be a way to help the children of Japanese soldiers come to grips with the fact that the parents they know and loved can still be good people even though they may have worked for or supported a political power that did some monstrous things. Oh I see why ClawShrimpy doesn't like Gundam now.
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Mar 28, 2015 20:24
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Hbomberguy posted:The key is communication. You have to understand what people are saying and be able to get your own ideas across properly, so disagreement isn't simply a result of failure to talk and is down to genuine differences that can be compared and discussed. This, incidentally, is what most of the 'be a man' lines in Anime mean. It's not a call to be overtly masculine but a call to face your day-to-day problems like an adult. Which is also what the boxing ring scene was about. Speaking of which: for Gainer, that boxing ring was no different from what you're trying to accomplish here in this thread. He couldn't function as he was in the society he found himself in but he wasn't mentally prepared to make any attempt to improve his own condition. Left to his own devices, he would've stagnated mentally and socially and eventually fallen into an ever-worsening spiral of depression and despair: which is something I can relate to and I suspect you can as well. Gainer had completely stopped while the world moved on around him. The boxing ring was Gain's attempt to engage him, if not mentally then physically, to try to get him back in "motion." And to give Gainer a moment to let out his frustration in a way that didn't involve trying to find words to come to terms with himself. This is a six year old girl calling Gainer out for being childish from episode 3:  The boxing match was on episode 4 This thread and the boxing match are the same. You came into this knowing there'd probably be some pain but wanting to better yourself as a poster. Gainer went into that boxing ring knowing there'd probably be some pain but wanting to better himself as a person. Even though he lost that fight Gainer clearly didn't think it was physical abuse because it helped him start to see that the tight, tiny, lonely, empty little world he thought he wanted for himself maybe wasn't really what he wanted. And remember when I asked you to think about themes earlier? This is what I meant. Also from Episode 3:  So, part of the challenge of the Anime you've chosen is that Gainer is very, very much like you. So rather than trying to project yourself onto him (if he's too similar it won't work, because Gainer is miserable at the start and trying to "become" him will make you miserable too), I really suggest taking a half step back and trying to see what lesson the show is trying to teach him. That'll serve you a lot better than trying to decide which character is the most "evil." You don't need to respond to this. Just try to keep the question in mind: What is the theme? What is the show trying to teach me through these characters? You might even find it more enjoyable that way. Don't be Gainer. Don't "be" anyone on the show. Just be yourself, and try to find the threads that tie it all together.
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Mar 29, 2015 05:13
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Clawshrimpy posted:Striking someone, especially someone who is in mental distress, is never an acceptable solution under any context or situation, though. It's a pity the prison he was in didn't have correspondence courses, Simon could've picked up a skillset he's never needed before in time to help. Seriously: In a crisis you use whatever tools you have available to you and you don't have time to be picky. Part of my job is working with the (thankfully rare) suicidal individual and you use any and every method at your disposal to keep them focused on the here-and-now and not pulling that trigger or downing those pills. Simon's options were limited and he absolutely did the right thing with the skills at his disposal at that very moment.
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Mar 29, 2015 16:13
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Hbomberguy posted:Why is changing someone's mind with words all of a sudden less violent than hitting them? I'm also curious. If you can't answer the question immediately (and that's perfectly fair) could you at least acknowledge that you've seen it and are attempting to consider it?
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Mar 29, 2015 17:03
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Hypothetically, if I were so far gone that I was seconds away from committing suicide and the only person close enough to do anything was an inarticulate heavyweight boxer I'd certainly want that boxer to knock me unconscious if he had to to buy time for someone who was "good with words" to help. Even if he gave me a concussion the "violent act" would actually be an act of kindness. It would give other, more articulate people, family, and friends a chance to help me start to cope with whatever had set me on the edge to begin with.
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Mar 29, 2015 18:15
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Clawshrimpy posted:That's exactly it though. Someone throws a water balloon at you. You have one second to catch it. You can either move to catch it right now, or you can get half-way through saying "stop" to try to talk the water balloon out of hitting you. That was the timeframe Simon was working with. Sometimes there is no time to "think of a better way." Edit: I mean, I guess he could've used that second to jump backwards to keep Rossiu's brains from splattering on his shoes or something. PoptartsNinja fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 29, 2015 |
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Mar 29, 2015 18:59
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It's ok to be wrong, ClawShrimpy. Wrong and Bad are not synonyms. Wrong and Evil are not synonyms. A lot of very intelligent people have been wrong over the course of human history. For example: Most Americans are taught that Christopher Columbus wanted to prove the Earth was round, and that sailors of the time were afraid they'd sail off the edge. This is wrong. Everyone knew the Earth was round. Hell, the Romans called the Earth "Orbis" because they were certain the Earth was a globe. The real reason nobody would give Christopher Columbus ships because his math was wrong. He thought the Earth was about 1/3rd smaller than it really is. If he hadn't blundered into the Americas he and his men would've Never Been Seen Again because Queen Isabella got so sick of his begging that she gave him some boats to shut him up. Are people who believe Europeans in the 1400s thought the world was flat wrong? Absolutely. Does that make them bad people? Not at all. Is Christopher Columbus a bad person for being wrong? Well, he was no paragon of virtue and his discovery did lead to some very bad and dangerously wrong ideas, but it also lead to some good ones as well. Sometimes being wrong leads to great discoveries. Sometimes being wrong is the quickest way to learn. 
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Mar 30, 2015 00:25
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Anyone who skips Dunbine's opening is a monster. 
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Mar 30, 2015 01:59
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Namtab posted:What if......both experiences matter That's impossible. It would mean that other people actually exist and aren't just constructs created by my own mind and projected on the wall of Plato's Cave to keep me from feeling lonely.
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Mar 31, 2015 00:32
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Clawshrimpy posted:But you're all trying to treat me like I'm horrible for being a coward and hiding. Because you're not doing anything to overcome it. You're latching on to the pain and suffering like it's a life preserver, which isn't healthy and something you should be taking up with a therapist. Hiding is a temporary solution, it's something that's OK to do in the moment--like taking shelter from a tornado or an Earthquake--but when the trouble's past (and it seems like it's what, 5-10 years past?) it's safe to stop hiding and start picking up the pieces. Even if the first thing you do with them is reinforce your tornado shelter you're still making your life better.
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Mar 31, 2015 00:39
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Stalin-Chan posted:I bet no one will acknowledge this post. You just did. Also, while it is correct, we can still point out how unhealthy it is to dwell on the things that hurt you to the exclusion of everything else.
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Mar 31, 2015 00:56
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mikeycp posted:It should also be noted that, from my experience, the typical person who plays Magic in public is very probably going to be kind of a lovely person regardless of disabilities or other such things. I can't say I recommend playing Magic or that kind of thing with strangers if you're sensitive to insults and assholeish behavior. If I learned anything from YuGiOh Abridged, it's that you've just played right into my trap card. Something Something defense mode!
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Mar 31, 2015 01:25
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