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TyroneGoldstein posted:It's not a relative small number, actually. Entire regions of States in this country would be absolutely devastated if we cut back all the pork procurement the Feds engage in or, God forbid, retool the military to fight modern engagements. The thing that blows my mind from the many I know who work in the industry is how they overwhelmingly hate the government and all its wasteful spending. You know, except for the wasteful spending that keeps them employed.
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Sep 13, 2018 14:21
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NatasDog posted:The thing that blows my mind from the many I know who work in the industry is how they overwhelmingly hate the government and all its wasteful spending. You know, except for the wasteful spending that keeps them employed. It's worth remembering that they consider the military a sacred institution that should always get more funding. Ignoring of course that a depressing chunk of that is just blatant corruption like piles of tanks the army doesn't even want.
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Sep 13, 2018 20:28
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Sacred is a really good word for what they consider it. It's like they're ritually throwing money into a volcano to appease the gods of the MIC. Praying for an increased aura of national confidence, strength and dominance. The details don't matter to them past that.
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Sep 13, 2018 20:49
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Defense of white property and subsidizing white property is the only legit function of the state, everything else is communists overthrowing democracy, of which land owning should be a prerequisite to participate. Oddly enough, if you're within the "one of us" designation for people like that, you can usually talk them into extremely far left socialist ideas as long as you don't use any trigger words.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:09
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Fun fact: if you asked people if they liked Obama care specifically it had mediocre results at best and a bunch of hate from the right. If you just listed all the poo poo it did without naming it it got drat near unanimous approval from everybody.
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Sep 13, 2018 21:48
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Dumb Lowtax posted:Sacred is a really good word for what they consider it. It's like they're ritually throwing money into a volcano to appease the gods of the MIC. Praying for an increased aura of national confidence, strength and dominance. The details don't matter to them past that. When I was in the industry, my main justification was "Defense is necessary". This is completely true, but kind of a lie through omission. When first hired I had no idea about the total billing to the government per hour of labor on a project or that most of the systems from our cash cow program sat in a warehouse. Incompetent management caused us to lose contracts and result in layoffs. Prior acts of incompetence had fermented the environment to become a festering hellhole and people turned against each other in order to keep their jobs. That's when a lot of the disturbing comments came up like "Hopefully there will be a terrorist attack soon so they'll need our products again and we can keep our jobs". If I had been in a more effectively-run facility that ran on the same program continuously, I might have been indoctrinated into it. After leaving the industry for good, I've asked many of the self-proclaimed conservatives about how they justify their position, particularly some of the older ones who have been in the industry for most of their professional career. Quite a few unfriended me or unfollowed/filtered me on facebook. Of the only two people who respond at all anymore, it's just an echo of "Defense is necessary" and no answers provided when questioned about specific wasteful products, like our systems that sat and never left the warehouse.
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Sep 17, 2018 03:37
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wrong thread
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Sep 17, 2018 12:01
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came by to drop this off, given to me by a friend: https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/?single=1 also lol that somehow the forums are coded such that Prester Jane's username hasn't updated in the thread author field
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Oct 15, 2018 05:11
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LordSaturn posted:came by to drop this off, given to me by a friend: https://harpers.org/archive/1964/11/the-paranoid-style-in-american-politics/?single=1 Well I hope that if she ever reregisters her account on Something Awful she can go ask the mods about that.
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Oct 15, 2018 05:56
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Annointed posted:Well I hope that if she ever reregisters her account on Something Awful she can go ask the mods about that.
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Oct 16, 2018 01:52
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Prester Jane posted:Given the reputation that Radium's code has I would be rather surprised if the mods could do anything about it. It's a minor thing though really since I'm about to close this thread and reopen it in C-SPAM. I'm done with posting in D&D Glad you're back, and do link us when you go! Also, I'm curious what you think of the article I posted.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:31
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Prester Jane posted:Given the reputation that Radium's code has I would be rather surprised if the mods could do anything about it. It's a minor thing though really since I'm about to close this thread and reopen it in C-SPAM. I'm done with posting in D&D I hope C-SPAM mods and users treat you better.
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Oct 16, 2018 02:34
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Prester Jane posted:Given the reputation that Radium's code has I would be rather surprised if the mods could do anything about it. It's a minor thing though really since I'm about to close this thread and reopen it in C-SPAM. I'm done with posting in D&D gently caress yeah PJ please come post in the avenatti toxx thread with us D&D does not deserve you
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Oct 16, 2018 02:36
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gently caress yes, welcome back PJ
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Oct 16, 2018 02:38
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LordSaturn posted:Glad you're back, and do link us when you go! Also, I'm curious what you think of the article I posted. It's been posted in this thread many times, but the basic gist is I feel it does a good job demonstrating that Narrativism is nothing new in American politics. Typically it has appeared in waves that attempt to disrupt the status quo, and although these movements often do some damage they have always failed in the past. This was because Narrativists have never actually controlled one of the major political parties before. What changed was the Republican Party deciding that a strategy of intentionally appealing to nativist in a cynical ploy to create a lock step voting block essentially invited the vampire into their house. A big part of my recent (as yet unpublished) work has been examining the psychological reasons that Republicans were willing to take this risk- I believe that the present Democratic Leadership is essentially half-assing their way to making more or less the same mistakes. Basically the conclusion of my upcoming projects is thus: if you have a class of privileged Elites and said Elites begin to lose control of the status quo; then they will often collectively decide to manipulate Narrativists in the mistaken belief that doing so permits them to retain control over the situation and eventually restore the previous status quo. It is my general contention that the German political class made this mistake in the 30's, the Republican Party made this mistake in the 60s, and the present Democratic Leadership is making this mistake right now. I believe this is also why whenever you have the situation arise in history where you have 1.) an entrenched Elite Class caught between 2.) rising fascism on one side and an 3.) an energized leftist movement on the other- the elites will always choose to support the fascists over the leftist. This is because they always view the fascists as an incompetent threat to the status quo, whereas they view the leftist as a competent threat to their control of the status quo. In their minds than they see an energized leftist movement as a more significant threat to their power than fascism presents. Prester Jane fucked around with this message at 02:53 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 02:47
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Prester Jane posted:I believe this is also why whenever you have the situation arise in history where you have 1.) an entrenched Elite Class caught between 2.) rising fascism on one side and an 3.) an energized leftist movement on the other- the elites will always choose to support the fascists over the leftist. This is because they always view the fascists as an incompetent threat to the status quo, whereas they view the leftist as a competent threat to their control of the status quo. In their minds than they see an energized leftist movement as a more significant threat to their power than fascism presents. I would argue that the elite do not consider the fascists a threat at all, either due to a fascist lip service to the 'status quo', or a belief that the 'new' status quo will be sufficiently identical to maintain the elites position. Fascists claiming 'status quo', of course, are not speaking of the current 'status quo' in which they are typically less powerful, rather it speaks either to a mythologised 'past' status quo (See A German Empire Pre-WW1 and before the depression), always attempting to emulate it into a near future status quo, where the fascist is now an elite (The Third Reich!).For the moment, this is a mythologised roughly 1950's post-War period, in which America was Strong and Able and Great, men were men, women were women and there 'wasn't racial tension'. Those who remember the time think fondly of it, as a older people are wont to do, while the younger driving force envision themselves successful if only the world did not have the different circumstances of this time.
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Oct 16, 2018 06:40
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Torchlighter posted:I would argue that the elite do not consider the fascists a threat at all, either due to a fascist lip service to the 'status quo', or a belief that the 'new' status quo will be sufficiently identical to maintain the elites position. Fascists claiming 'status quo', of course, are not speaking of the current 'status quo' in which they are typically less powerful, rather it speaks either to a mythologised 'past' status quo (See A German Empire Pre-WW1 and before the depression), always attempting to emulate it into a near future status quo, where the fascist is now an elite (The Third Reich!).For the moment, this is a mythologised roughly 1950's post-War period, in which America was Strong and Able and Great, men were men, women were women and there 'wasn't racial tension'. Those who remember the time think fondly of it, as a older people are wont to do, while the younger driving force envision themselves successful if only the world did not have the different circumstances of this time. That is a pretty good counter point in all honesty. It isn't hard for established Elites to imagine themselves remaining in there comfortable positions should the fascist come fully into power. (Chuck Schumer and Nancy Pelosi certainly don't seem to feel threatened by the idea of a fascist overthrow of the government.) They view themselves personally as two important and too difficult to replace to ever truly lose their ability to have some sort of hold on power- as a result they don't individually view the fascists as a threat to their personal status quo. There was a good example of this a few months back in the truck thread where someone admitted to me that they had no nothing but a life of comfort free of conflict and we're too afraid to learn how to fight now. They believe that because they knew how to fix the computers that kept everything running that they would always be a place for them, and they would be able to live out a comfortable existence even if fascism took over the government. (They were wrong of course, but it's not like comfortable yt's are in short supply in the Trump threatened at least this individual was willing to be honest about it.)
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Oct 16, 2018 06:49
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Prester Jane posted:There was a good example of this a few months back in the truck thread where someone admitted to me that they had no nothing but a life of comfort free of conflict and we're too afraid to learn how to fight now. They believe that because they knew how to fix the computers that kept everything running that they would always be a place for them, and they would be able to live out a comfortable existence even if fascism took over the government. (They were wrong of course, but it's not like comfortable yt's are in short supply in the Trump threatened at least this individual was willing to be honest about it.) Are you talking about me? Because I have no illusion I'd be targeted, it's just that I prefer to go out painlessly on my own terms rather than die screaming in a meaningless struggle. Also I really suck at my job because I am literally paralyzed by the fact that all I do will be dust. AceOfFlames fucked around with this message at 10:35 on Oct 16, 2018 |
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Oct 16, 2018 10:33
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The fun part is I'm pretty sure most of the liberal enablers would either soon join in full-throated fascist support to fit in or be disposed of and replaced by fascist cronies as rewards for their service, because fascism must associate all levels of power with loyalty and ideology.
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Oct 16, 2018 11:33
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AceOfFlames posted:Are you talking about me? Because I have no illusion I'd be targeted, it's just that I prefer to go out painlessly on my own terms rather than die screaming in a meaningless struggle. I would argue this is a fairly privileged position to be taking this particular scenario though. What you are essentially stating is that you would much rather let other people take all the risks while you enjoy your present comfortable situation for as long as you possibly can. If the people taking the risks succeed then bully for you, and if they don't don't succeed then you will simply check out by your own hand. And you view this as preferable to taking any risks yourself. Minorities don't get to make that kind of decision in this scenario. We have to risk it all and struggle regardless. And the frustrating part is whether or not there is any meaning in our struggle will largely be determined by people in comfortable situations like yourself.
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Oct 16, 2018 12:33
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Prester Jane posted:If the people taking the risks succeed then bully for you, and if they don't don't succeed then you will simply check out by your own hand. And you view this as preferable to taking any risks yourself. The key thing is that climate change will end everything, so there really is the last option. Anyway, I'm in therapy to put myself in a useful state to the world. I was diagnosed with AvPD and my therapist insists my fixation on the end is an excuse to avoid trying to change my life. I am inclined to agree since even fantasizing about the perfect life only brings out a blank. I hope I change my mind and wish you luck in your struggle.
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Oct 16, 2018 12:38
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AceOfFlames posted:I hope I change my mind and wish you luck in your struggle. It's not just my struggle though, it's all of our struggle. It's your struggle just as much as it is mine. You're just in a privileged enough position where you can (temporarily) pretend otherwise.
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Oct 16, 2018 12:55
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AceOfFlames posted:I was diagnosed with AvPD ah, a case of Alien vs. Predator Disorder
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Oct 16, 2018 16:28
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LORD OF BOOTY posted:ah, a case of Alien vs. Predator Disorder In my case, I suspect it has already progressed to AvPD: Requiem.
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Oct 16, 2018 17:09
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Prester Jane posted:It's not just my struggle though, it's all of our struggle. It's your struggle just as much as it is mine. You're just in a privileged enough position where you can (temporarily) pretend otherwise. I had a smart friend in school in our town in mostly rural Georgia. He was a neoconservative who loved Bush when in school, then when he graduated, he went to Stanford and got a master's degree in biology and while doing so, became a liberal hippie. I guess a couple years or so before Trump became president, he ended up switching to near Alt-Right. Maybe he'll switch again. I didn't find out about his switch away from liberalism until asking him what his thoughts were on the current political situation a few months after Trump had been in office. His response floored me - he was saying that historically races have never mixed well so if we have people fighting for and against racial equality, he felt he needed to pick the side that would support him. He went on to say that the US was going to decay and he wanted to maintain a wall of privilege as best as possible. It was a little surreal having all this stuff that most conservatives deny unless completely in company with their own kind being broadcast openly to me over facebook messenger, but that's the state of the world now. I too leaned Republican shortly after being hired at the military industrial complex for the first time (see earlier post in this thread). If it's possible to look at my post history from back then, doubtless I made a few posts in favor of "conservative" policies. The big thing in that back of my mind was not admitting I was a government contractor and realizing that if asked this in an argument and pressured about the work I did, I'd use the "Defense is necessary for survival and allocated to the government by the constitution" defense for why I lived off taxpayer dollars but was supportive of removing this privilege for other people. As a white guy with an engineering degree, from a state school no less, the Republicans offer a huge boon to me. The primary jobs available are in defense contracting or supplying, and telecom which their anti-Net Neutrality help. Their indictment of affirmative action helps ensure I'll have a slightly higher chance of getting a desired position and the social conservative fervor they receive from rural America helps ensure the survivability of these defense contracting jobs in the name of patriotism. The patriotic appeal to have a big military and cut back on social safety nets also ensures more money routed to defense industries as well as pitting social conservatives against those on either the fiscal right or social left who would oppose this. Lastly, defense contracting is amongst the last activities that can be outsourced. The Republicans definitely offer a nice honeypot for a certain segment of the population if they're okay with exploiting a lot of other segments for their own gain.
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Oct 16, 2018 17:11
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Jolly Jumbuck posted:As a white guy with an engineering degree, from a state school no less, the Republicans offer a huge boon to me. The primary jobs available are in defense contracting or supplying,
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Oct 16, 2018 17:37
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Huh, welcome back PJ. An unexpected and welcome surprise. 
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Oct 16, 2018 18:34
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Ice Phisherman posted:Huh, welcome back PJ. An unexpected and welcome surprise. Thank you <3 I thought I was done with this place but SA means too drat much to me. Also the rest of the internet sucks even worse than this place.
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Oct 16, 2018 18:43
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Prester Jane posted:Also the rest of the internet sucks even worse than this place. And that's why we all keep coming back here. It is amazing how effective the paywall is.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:02
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Madmarker posted:And that's why we all keep coming back here. It is amazing how effective the paywall is. It's really a testament to the effectiveness of the overall structure of this site that this site not only has persisted this long, but has persisted despite some pretty consistently bad management decisions over the decades.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:18
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If Lowtax were to devote time to make this site well it’d resurge IMO. But it’s probably secondary to his main job or life
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Oct 16, 2018 19:23
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Gatts posted:If Lowtax were to devote time to make this site well it’d resurge IMO. But it’s probably secondary to his main job or life He just doesn't have the backbone to do such a brave thing.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:24
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If this site was even halfway presentable to anyone without an account it would really help things out I imagine. I didn't realize just how unbelievably bad and dated this website looks until I got banned. Holy crap, between the word filter making discussions nigh-unreadable and the bizarre pictures crammed into posts it' just makes the whole thing look like an abandoned web 1.0 abortion.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:30
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...Aren't you on Twitter?
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Oct 16, 2018 19:46
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Halloween Jack posted:...Aren't you on Twitter? In my defense it drives more hits to my website than something awful does. Reddit has driven more hits to my website then something awful by more than a factor of 10.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:49
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Prester Jane posted:If this site was even halfway presentable to anyone without an account it would really help things out I imagine. I didn't realize just how unbelievably bad and dated this website looks until I got banned. Holy crap, between the word filter making discussions nigh-unreadable and the bizarre pictures crammed into posts it' just makes the whole thing look like an abandoned web 1.0 abortion. The only way Ive been able to explain it is a cross between an internet VFW and a fraternity where pledge week involves looking at goatse and getting mean words typed at you. It is STILL embarrassing to this day to show my wife stories from SA. She hopped onto Lipstick Alley and that place is like the mirror mirror episode of startrek. Every poster is basically the same, but a sassy black girl version of their SA counterpart. So there the internet is bigger that I understood.
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Oct 16, 2018 19:54
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I wanna get coffee with AU T-man, she sounds cool.
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Oct 16, 2018 20:16
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Gatts posted:If Lowtax were to devote time to make this site well it’d resurge IMO. But it’s probably secondary to his main job or life LOL nah man the forums generally do better when he's sitting back with something else and doesn't try to micromanage but is instead only coming in cuz something serious happened.
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Oct 16, 2018 21:39
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There was an attempt to Make SA Funny Again after Kiwifarms made anti-klurfing memes, but that didn't go so well. The forums are a semi-sentient gestalt now. They no longer heed the 'tax's whims.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:34
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When Lowtax dies we forum members get right of first refusal to buy SA right?  Also, neo-liberalism is fundamentally incompatible with socialism, which is why it cozies up so well with fascism. That's why you don't see dems embrace so many leftist policies; what with fear of a slippery slope and all that.
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Oct 16, 2018 22:59
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