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Best Friends posted:It must be a struggle to simultaneously believe arms races don't exist or inflame tensions while also being very mad at the U.S. military industrial complex.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:24
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I grilled hamburgers for some japanese orphans once. Although I did punch a deer in the face when I was at Miyajima, so I guess my presence there is karmaticaly even
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Apr 10, 2015 07:27
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No, going by those two things alone you would be 2 ahead because deer are worthless garbage creatures and you probably prevented someone from getting into a car crash.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:29
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The ones on Miyajima are all domesticated and poo poo, so they're basically seagulls with hooves. They bite the poo poo out of you and try to steal your food.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:33
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VitalSigns posted:A theoretical Japanese arms race with China might be bad, so let's just get into an even bigger arms race with china ourselves not in much of a race. We're coasting along light years ahead. We also haven't raped any Chinese cities to death.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:35
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Best Friends posted:not in much of a race. We're coasting along light years ahead. We also haven't raped any Chinese cities to death. Speaking of that, what do you think of US military officials going on ultra right wing Japanese news stations (which deny the rape of Nanking ever happened) to decry Okinawan anti-base protestors for "hate speech"?
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Apr 10, 2015 07:54
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Best Friends posted:not in much of a race. We're coasting along light years ahead. We also haven't raped any Chinese cities to death. Something something Foxconn something.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:54
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Best Friends posted:not in much of a race. We're coasting along light years ahead. We also haven't raped any Chinese cities to death. And neither will the Japanese, since they are incapable of it even if they wanted to.
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Apr 10, 2015 07:59
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Chomskyan posted:Speaking of that, what do you think of US military officials going on ultra right wing Japanese news stations (which deny the rape of Nanking ever happened) to decry Okinawan anti-base protestors for "hate speech"? Honestly, I can't get an erection these days unless I know that someone, somewhere is feeling outraged by incredibly minor and trivial poo poo, so I'm pretty much 100% in favor.
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Apr 10, 2015 08:07
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Dead Reckoning posted:Honestly, I can't get an erection these days unless I know that someone, somewhere is feeling outraged by incredibly minor and trivial poo poo, so I'm pretty much 100% in favor. If you can't get an erection these days unless you know that somewhere someone is feeling a minor, you might be a dyncorp contractor
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Apr 10, 2015 08:12
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The party palace just hasn't been the same since they told us we couldn't buy bacha boys anymore.
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Apr 10, 2015 08:16
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SedanChair posted:Ah yes the creeping CHINESE MILITARY THREAT China is actually behaving remarkably aggressively in the South China Sea and not just Japan, but also the Philippines, Taiwan, and Thailand benefit from US military presence there due to our mutual defense treaties.
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Apr 10, 2015 08:30
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JeffersonClay posted:China is actually behaving remarkably aggressively in the South China Sea and not just Japan, but also the Philippines, Taiwan, and Thailand benefit from US military presence there due to our mutual defense treaties. we must respect their sphere of influence the easterners are weird that way please don't let the spheres touch, they think that's gay
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Apr 10, 2015 09:19
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Maybe we could just let China go ahead and annex Vietnam? They do have a historical claim to it. Maybe throw in the Philippines too while we're at it
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Apr 10, 2015 09:44
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If there's one thing we learned in the last fifty years, it's that ain't nobody annexing Vietnam and keeping it.
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Apr 10, 2015 09:47
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Chomskyan posted:Speaking of that, what do you think of US military officials going on ultra right wing Japanese news stations (which deny the rape of Nanking ever happened) to decry Okinawan anti-base protestors for "hate speech"? I thought your entire thesis here is that we should do whatever political minorities in Japan want?
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Apr 10, 2015 14:47
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Vietnam got down, fought for home, and kept it.  at the US trying to Hitler North Vietnam, and instead you had future presidential candidate crash into the jungle 20 times.China will not succeed in doing the same thing to Japan. Although they wish they could.
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Apr 10, 2015 17:52
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TBH after WW2 we should've told France to gently caress off and let Vietnam go independent it really should've been after WW1 though
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Apr 10, 2015 20:00
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Woodrow Wilson didn't have a super high opinion of non-whites though, at least not if they couldn't prove themselves up to Western standards of sociopathy and industrial murder like the Japanese did
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Apr 10, 2015 20:06
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Killer-of-Lawyers posted:We should raise the top bracket tax rate well before we should try and raise the corporate rates. Also, shipping manufacturing overseas doesn't have anything to do with why its important for the US to keep the oceans safe and trade flowing. The US has the largest corporate tax rates of any country that matter, so no we shouldn't
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Apr 10, 2015 20:51
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Book tax rate and applied tax rate are completely different stories. You can have two firms in the same industry paying wildly different proportions of tax. Generally, the bigger one will be paying less, having more room to play games and, long term, work with lobbyists.
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Apr 10, 2015 21:04
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Excellent work. The New Battle for Okinawa has been resolved.
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Apr 10, 2015 23:58
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tsa posted:The US has the largest corporate tax rates of any country that matter, so no we shouldn't The US has the largest corporate tax rate, so we shouldn't not raise them? I don't really follow the logic, but whatever you guys say!
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Apr 11, 2015 00:38
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tsa posted:The US has the largest corporate tax rates of any country that matter, so no we shouldn't Yeah but the effective rate is laughably low.
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Apr 11, 2015 01:35
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Can anybody tell me or better yet show me an article about why people think it was some uniquely unconscionable war crime that the USA dropped nuclear bombs on Japan? As if the many dozens of other times we flattened whole cities and wiped out thousands of people were A-OK. Does it really make a difference if somebody got vaporized in a nuclear blast or if they got spontaneously immolated in a firestorm?
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Apr 11, 2015 04:20
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Nukes attract attention due to the spectre of nuclear war.
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Apr 11, 2015 04:24
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icantfindaname posted:Maybe we could just let China go ahead and annex Vietnam? They tried that in 1979 and it didn't work out too well
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Apr 11, 2015 04:30
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Eustachy posted:Can anybody tell me or better yet show me an article about why people think it was some uniquely unconscionable war crime that the USA dropped nuclear bombs on Japan? As if the many dozens of other times we flattened whole cities and wiped out thousands of people were A-OK. Does it really make a difference if somebody got vaporized in a nuclear blast or if they got spontaneously immolated in a firestorm? As someone said, we view the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki through the lens of the Cold War and the nuclear taboo. We talk about the two bombings like they were a discrete event; people in the 40's unfamiliar with the exceptional nature of fission weapons would have viewed them as just another two cities:  Alex Wellerstein has written some good pieces on this topic: http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2014/09/22/tokyo-hiroshima/ http://blog.nuclearsecrecy.com/2012/08/06/hiroshima-at-67-the-line-we-crossed/
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Apr 11, 2015 05:29
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Eustachy posted:Can anybody tell me or better yet show me an article about why people think it was some uniquely unconscionable war crime that the USA dropped nuclear bombs on Japan? As if the many dozens of other times we flattened whole cities and wiped out thousands of people were A-OK. Does it really make a difference if somebody got vaporized in a nuclear blast or if they got spontaneously immolated in a firestorm? It wasn't considered particularly heinous in 1945. The association between maximum evil and the use of nuclear weapons is a product of the Cold War and thermonuclear stockpiles that if used would poison the earth and lead to extinction. Working backwards, Hiroshima and Nagasaki must have also been particularly evil, despite the fact that massive use of conventional weapons created as much or more suffering to civilian populations in the war.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:31
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Plus, atomic bombings are uniquely American, which lets you neatly play the Bad Yankee card without having to unpack the fact that any country with an internet connection has some equally heinous poo poo in their past.
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Apr 11, 2015 05:37
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tsa posted:The US has the largest corporate tax rates of any country that matter, so no we shouldn't Even if any (any) corporation paid those rates, there would be no reason not to raise them higher. And then, raise them higher still.
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Apr 11, 2015 10:52
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Onaga and Abe finally meet, Onaga reiterated his opposition to the base and emphasized that the existing bases were built on stolen land. Abe feels he can't let the base fall through before his visit to Washington. So it looks like the Prefectural government and Tokyo are on a collision course.quote:Original article (Okinawa Times)
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Apr 18, 2015 07:26
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I can't believe I just now caught this thread. Here are some thoughts to maybe try to turn this into a non-shitpost: 1) Helos and Ospreys make more noise than jetliners. That's because jetliners fly on a defined instrument approach corridor. Outside of that narrow corridor, turbofan non-afterburning airliner engines don't make much noise. Typically the only time you can legitimately hear an aircraft is when they are taking off at a high power setting directly over where you live. After they take off, they're in a pretty steep climb to an altitude where the sound is barely noticeable. Helicopters and ospreys, however, tend to cruise at very low altitudes because, well, that's the flight regime they are designed to operate in. They also fly in visual conditions, many times along the coastline, and do low levels and contact approaches on the regular, again, at much lower altitudes. That is why an osprey/helo will be louder than a jetliner. But to be quite honest, the noise pollution is a minor issue when it comes to efficient use of the land. 2) Okinawa is a densely populated island with a very heavy tourism and service sector. Yes, it's true, the military bases inject a lot of money into the economy with servicemembers and families with cash to burn. HOWEVER, the issue is with the land. If it was a tiny base with a bunch of soldiers on it, it would be an economic boon. But, the issue is that an airbase takes up a -LOT- of loving room. Add that to the munitions storage area and the jungle warfare training area, and you're talking about massive chunks of the island. To simplify the math, let's say HYPOTHETICALLY BECAUSE THESE AREN'T REAL NUMBERS each military dude is on average worth $10000/yr in economic activity. You have 10,000 military dudes in a base that takes up 20 square miles. That means for every square mile, you earn $5M ($10k*10k / 20) in economic activity every year. Now lets say the rest of the island with its civilian population and tourism and poo poo is able to generate, on average, $10M per square mile in economic contribution. I'm talking the sum total of developing the land as real estate for condos, land for businesses, opening up more tourist entertainment spots, hotels, etc, etc. A decently sized small to medium business can easily take up half a block and generate $1M/yr, so it's not that far fetched to get to $10M. Furthermore, 100% of the employment is going to constituents who pay income and property taxes that pay for public schools, public works, so on and so forth. So you're creating jobs, creating tax revenue, AND increasing economic activity where you didn't have it before. Anyway, the point is that yes the military does contribute to the economy in a big way. However, Okinawa is a very densely packed island in the southern half. The bases take up an immense amount of landmass, and the Americans account for a mere fraction of the total island population and its economic activity. Furthermore, the actual land, like the literal earth beneath your feet land is being inefficiently utilized in an economic sense. It's unproductive. This was actually a major point of Onaga's campaign. 3) The actual security situation. Very few people actually have a clue about this, but yes Okinawa is a very key strategic asset for both the nations of Japan and the U.S. The main issue is that Okinawa, for its size, carries an outsized burden compared to the rest of the nation. If the Japanese could build a base somewhere else, they would, but nobody else is willing to host a new base in the backyard because they know it sucks, hence the national government pushes to maintain the status quo. What seems insane to me is the amount of land that the military holds on to that has no operational or strategic value whatsoever, but we don't have to give it back, so gently caress it. Like, having a massive golf course on base is just such a huge "gently caress you we're untouchable" to the locals that it boggles my mind we're able to get away with it. Or the fact that Camp Lester is still open despite having literally nothing useful on it. The U.S. Navy Hospital was located there, but then moved to another base, and literally the only thing there is leftover base housing. That's pretty hosed up. In fact, massive chunks of the non-operational land on Kadena is run by the U.S. government -- the local economy doesn't get a cut if someone occupies on-base housing if they spend 95% of their income on base. From a US perspective, it saves money, but from an Okinawan perspective, it costs money. It costs far more money in lost revenue than the national government could possibly cover with their "economic aid package". 4) The conclusion. What's happening is that Okinawans have been patient for a very long time. The attitudes were very positive, hopeful, and obedient for a while. For example, leading up to the reversion to Japan in 1972, most Okinawans believed that bases would start disappearing, as though they were a temporary fixture like most of the cold war-era bases we had in Europe. And a couple of bases DID shut down, such as Camp Hamby (turned into an economically productive shopping area -- surprise). However, progress stalled until the rapes in 1995 which prompted the whole Futenma/Henoko move. That stalled for a while until a new party promised Okinawans that they would relocate the base completely off the island. And of course, that never materialized, and they regressed back to the Henoko plan. Now, relations are getting soured to the point where there seems to be a very visible mistrust of the national government (especially Abe's right-leaning platform), a deliberate promotion of Ryukuan or "Uchinanchu" identity over Japanese, and a consistent effort to utilize outside influences to moderate the dispute. For example, one argument Okinawans put forth is that they are second-class citizens as a result of historical (which is true, tbqh) and institutionalized racism against Ryukyuan people. If they get the attention of the UN and other IGO's, and even give Japan's rivals ammo to throw spears (similar to how the USSR threw the USA's accusations of human rights abuses right back in its face citing southern racism against blacks), the small island prefecture could manage to punch above its weight. Americans don't really realize that the rest of East Asia doesn't consider Okinawans in the same light as Japan, as they are viewed as fellow victims of Japanese colonialism. Personally, I think the only solution that involves both the pacification of Okinawan dissent AND allows the bases to remain is a grand bargain that involves elements of Scottish-style devolution. But that's a topic for another post.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:23
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On the other hand those bases are there for the purpose of making it easier and more effective for Americans to fight and possibly die in the defense of the Japanese home islands including Okinawa if it ever comes to that, so I think that the US military presence there should be forgiven the inconveniences.
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Apr 19, 2015 18:49
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I've still not seen any evidence that Okinawan objections to the base are popular and apolitical.
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Apr 19, 2015 19:33
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Rekinom posted:
Isn't Henoko supposed to fix much of these problems? The fact that the anti-base people are incensed most of all by a plan to eliminate 95% percent of the legitimate reasons to be upset by the bases makes me feel like the legitimate grievances are really just a smokescreen for a bunch of nativist/NIMBY crap. Also I'm not sure how you can call Okinawa a victim of Japanese imperialism here in 2015 when they reunified with Japan voluntarily over US objections.
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Apr 19, 2015 20:53
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Jarmak posted:Also I'm not sure how you can call Okinawa a victim of Japanese imperialism here in 2015 when they reunified with Japan voluntarily over US objections. ryukyu was forcibly occupied in the late 1800s but a better term way to describe it than imperialism is more like the central gov being blatantly nonrepresentative of okinawa thanks to japans dysfunctional democracy.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:44
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Fojar38 posted:On the other hand those bases are there for the purpose of making it easier and more effective for Americans to fight and possibly die in the defense of the Japanese home islands including Okinawa if it ever comes to that, so I think that the US military presence there should be forgiven the inconveniences. Support are troops. If you don't fully agree with every policy decision the president makes then you're not supporting are troops hard enough, and are probably a traitor to the Red Chinese.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:51
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VitalSigns posted:Support are troops. If you don't fully agree with every policy decision the president makes then you're not supporting are troops hard enough, and are probably a traitor to the Red Chinese. This but unironically.
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Apr 19, 2015 23:53
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Fojar38 posted:On the other hand those bases are there for the purpose of making it easier and more effective for Americans to fight and possibly die in the defense of the Japanese home islands including Okinawa if it ever comes to that, so I think that the US military presence there should be forgiven the inconveniences. Thats a dumb thing to think is necessary or worth defending.
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Apr 20, 2015 00:30
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