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TheImmigrant posted:Other than the several hundred US-Okinawan marriages every year, you mean. Sure, but this was during the really big rape crisis in the 90s, when local papers were panicking about rape vans loaded with drunk Marines kidnapping and killing schoolgirls.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:53
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Is marriage positive, or even a sign of good relations? It is a given that women will try to marry US servicemen wherever they are stationed.
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Apr 4, 2015 16:04
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SedanChair posted:Is marriage ... a sign of good relations?
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Apr 4, 2015 18:25
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Did at least one woman bone/marry one of the occupying soldiers? If yes, relations are good, no problem.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:46
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VitalSigns posted:Did at least one woman bone/marry one of the occupying soldiers? If yes, relations are good, no problem. Actually, a single protester is a sign of broken relations and united opposition to oKKKupation. And seriously, check your male privilege. I was talking about marriages between US servicewomen and Okinawan men.
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Apr 4, 2015 18:50
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SedanChair posted:That's not what linguists do. Colourless green posts sleep furiously.
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Apr 5, 2015 01:27
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TheImmigrant posted:Actually, a single protester is a sign of broken relations and united opposition to oKKKupation. No one has said this TheImmigrant posted:And seriously, check your male privilege. I was talking about marriages between US servicewomen and Okinawan men. Gay marriage is unconstitutional in Japan.
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Apr 5, 2015 02:44
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VitalSigns posted:Gay marriage is unconstitutional in Japan.
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Apr 5, 2015 02:47
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Rent-A-Cop posted:This is either racist or misogynist but I can't tell which. I think he just misread servicewomen as servicemen.
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Apr 5, 2015 02:50
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E: Oh yes I did misread it. Now theImmigrant's post makes even less sense
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Apr 5, 2015 02:51
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TheImmigrant posted:And seriously, check your male privilege. I was talking about marriages between US servicewomen and Okinawan men. No you weren't. But why start saying the truth about what you're posting now? Why be frank about your intentions.
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Apr 5, 2015 03:25
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He brings up an interesting point. "They stealin' are wimmins!" is at the heart of a lot of the more xenophobic objections to the US military presence in Japan.
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Apr 5, 2015 03:45
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Doesn't the "unconditional" part of "unconditional surrender" definitionally mean it's not stolen?
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Apr 5, 2015 05:04
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Apr 5, 2015 05:25
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Bip Roberts posted:Doesn't the "unconditional" part of "unconditional surrender" definitionally mean it's not stolen? Are you asking: "Is it still stealing if you pass a law that says you can do it?"
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Apr 5, 2015 05:33
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Suga and Onaga are having their meeting, but it looks like the Abe government isn't letting up their hard line on Henoko. I doubt any progress will be made toward resolving the current tensions. Everything I've been reading seems to suggest the central government has the power to force the base through. But if they do go that route, it will further inflame anti-US/anti-Tokyo sentiments, and could cause more serious problems for the Abe government down the road. Chief Cabinet secretary arrives in Okinawa for Futenma base talks with governor quote:GINOWAN, OKINAWA PREF. – Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga arrived in Okinawa on Saturday on a two-day visit to hold talks with Gov. Takeshi Onaga. The OP has been updated Red and Black fucked around with this message at 05:40 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 05:37
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VitalSigns posted:Are you asking: "Is it still stealing if you pass a law that says you can do it?" Ignoring the history of why are there in the first place is pretty cool.
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Apr 5, 2015 06:00
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VitalSigns posted:Are you asking: "Is it still stealing if you pass a law that says you can do it?" The Conquered don't dictate terms to the Conqueror.
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Apr 5, 2015 06:25
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Okay Conan. In the real world the moral highground actually counts for something. Start applying your logic to African or native American colonialism and see how long it takes for rational people to tune you out.
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Apr 5, 2015 13:40
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Bolow posted:The Conquered don't dictate terms to the Conqueror. I agree, when you think about it Iraq and Afghanistan actually are rightfully American territory by right of conquest and anybody who disagrees should just get offed by the occupation forces.
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Apr 5, 2015 13:48
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SlipUp posted:Okay Conan. In the real world the moral highground actually counts for something. Start applying your logic to African or native American colonialism and see how long it takes for rational people to tune you out. Actually the whole concept of a moral high ground is just another way to leverage power in the absence of actual physical power; do they not teach kids Nietzsche anymore? A lot of people in this thread need to get real about the politics involved. And while the foregoing is in of itself an obviously repugnant concept, I imagine anyone trying to argue morality as being any more than that would be hard pressed to win that argument, since it would mean a decisive end to any debate, which if D&D teaches us anything its that debate is endless and only constrained in the presence of power. The fact that Okinawa is what it is and Chomsky is wasting his time here is all you need as evidence to these facts. I mean are we really going to entertain the opposite?- that he's got it figured out and its the world that's somehow confused..? Maybe all that the powers that be are lacking is a little SA in their lives. Irrational Man fucked around with this message at 14:30 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 5, 2015 14:21
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VitalSigns posted:Gay marriage is unconstitutional in Japan. But the US federal government recognized gay marriages, so couldn't a US serviceman marry an Okinawan of the same gender on base?
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Apr 5, 2015 14:57
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Irrational Man posted:Actually the whole concept of a moral high ground is just another way to leverage power in the absence of actual physical power; do they not teach kids Nietzsche anymore? A lot of people in this thread need to get real about the politics involved. And while the foregoing is in of itself an obviously repugnant concept, I imagine anyone trying to argue morality as being any more than that would be hard pressed to win that argument, since it would mean a decisive end to any debate, which if D&D teaches us anything its that debate is endless and only constrained in the presence of power. The fact that Okinawa is what it is and Chomsky is wasting his time here is all you need as evidence to these facts. I mean are we really going to entertain the opposite?- that he's got it figured out and its the world that's somehow confused..? Maybe all that the powers that be are lacking is a little SA in their lives. Congratulations, you've endorsed terrorism.
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Apr 5, 2015 15:00
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Let me just blow your puny minds for a moment: have you considered that there is no objective basis for morality? Yeah. Didn't think so. Heh.
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Apr 5, 2015 15:10
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 "Vae victis" -the final argument of a democratic society
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Apr 5, 2015 15:18
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Hey it worked for the romans for a good run
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Apr 5, 2015 15:41
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Pornographic Memory posted:I agree, when you think about it Iraq and Afghanistan actually are rightfully American territory by right of conquest and anybody who disagrees should just get offed by the occupation forces. Neither the Taliban or the Iraqi government signed a formal document stating their unconditional surrender to the United States so this post isn't as clever as you think it is.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:50
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The US occupation of Okinawa ends the moment the Japanese central government tells them to GTFO. I can't believe people are using The Riddle of Steel as an argument in favor of US bases on Okinawa.
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Apr 5, 2015 17:35
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Typical Pubbie posted:The US occupation of Okinawa ends the moment the Japanese central government tells them to GTFO. I can't believe people are using The Riddle of Steel as an argument in favor of US bases on Okinawa. Does the US even occupy Okinawa? US forces are there with at least acquiescence of Tokyo, if not request.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:48
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crabcakes66 posted:Ignoring the history of why are there in the first place is pretty cool. Surely it's possible to make moral judgments about the way the victor treats the vanquished even after an unconditional surrender. I don't think it would have been moral to line up every Japanese civilian and shoot them. I do think it would have been moral to hang the emperor, but a bad and impractical idea. I'm totally on board with executing the war criminals like we did. Where bulldozing the homes of civilians five years after the end of the war to build military bases on their land falls on this is at least debatable. If we're just going to brush that off with "victors can do no wrong", then we just justified the extermination of Jews in occupied France: it was an armistice condition after all so I guess that makes it okay.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:54
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Pornographic Memory posted:I agree, when you think about it Iraq and Afghanistan actually are rightfully American territory by right of conquest and anybody who disagrees should just get offed by the occupation forces. Also, the former Japanese colonies known as Taiwan and Korea should be returned to Japanese rule.
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Apr 6, 2015 03:01
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I'm kind of confused by the fact the OP seems to simultaneously complain about the US interfering with reunification with Japan, and complaining about the Japanese government selling out the Okinawans for the perks of military cooperation with the U.S.
Jarmak fucked around with this message at 12:04 on Apr 6, 2015 |
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Apr 6, 2015 05:37
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Jarmak posted:I'm kind of confused by the fact the OP seems to simultaneously complain about the US interfering with reunification with Japan, and complain about the Japanese government selling out the Okinawans for the perks of military cooperation with the U.S. He also had to look up what NIMBY was, so.
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Apr 6, 2015 06:09
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I really enjoyed my time in Okinawa. Took time to learn the language and culture. Enjoyed the food.
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Apr 6, 2015 19:37
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SlipUp posted:Okay Conan. In the real world the moral highground actually counts for something. Start applying your logic to African or native American colonialism and see how long it takes for rational people to tune you out. Waking up Okinawans with fighter jets is literally the exact same as European colonialism in Africa and the Americas.
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Apr 6, 2015 19:41
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as a person on the internet i have a lot of opiniong on this subject and am also very angry
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Apr 6, 2015 20:45
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Omi-Polari posted:The idea is to turn Okinawa into a big trade hub. Tourism. Also IT call centers from shore to shore.  if you think resorts full of tourists are any less noisy, environmentally unsound, and likely to drunkenly assault locals than the Futenma Marines.Omi-Polari posted:
The other secondary effects on the local labor market are no different from a town hosting a large auto plant or other major employer. (The primary effects are obviously different since most positions on the base aren't being staffed by locals.) Providing services isn't "unproductive" it's a major sector of the economy. Also, video games are never a good comparison. Omi-Polari posted:A positive example I'm thinking of is demilitarizing the Presidio in San Francisco in the 1980s. ReindeerF posted:p.s. - Just had Okinawan food last weekend and spam features prominently. USA! USA! USA! Reminds me of modern Pinoy food in that regard.
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Apr 6, 2015 22:34
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From what I understand.
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Dead Reckoning posted:San Francisco in the 80s was a major world city with a diversified economy centered on high tech, finance and services. As others have noted, the Presidio and shipyards were a blip in economic terms. It's also kind of a funny example to choose since there's two examples of how places can go to poo poo when the military leaves within two hours' travel of the Presidio: Vallejo and Hunter's Point.
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Apr 7, 2015 00:38
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Yankees go home.
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Apr 7, 2015 00:43
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Darkman Fanpage posted:Yankees go home. *1 year later* "Yankees come back!" Repeat ad nauseum.
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Apr 7, 2015 00:44
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