USPol April: Posting Cafe & Bakery (NOTE: Baby-killing gays need not apply)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol April: Posting Cafe & Bakery (NOTE: Baby-killing gays need not apply)

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JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

RevKrule posted:

I just don't understand this. If the bill is just a reproduction of the federal law, why pass it anyway? Don't local laws just inherit the laws above them if there's nothing set?

If you want it in line with the federal version, why not just not pass it, then you're covered under the federal version?

The Federal RFRA only covers federal laws, state RFRAs are intended as an extension that cover state and local law.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 18:10

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 13:02

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

There is a role in the American political system for a party that is preoccupied with efficient government and avoiding wasteful government spending. That said, the Republicans have not been that party for decades, and now that they are bound to the hip with the Pentagon and defense contractors, they never will be again.

Fried Chicken posted:

Then I suppose my background in it is insufficient, my exposure to it has been the post 9/11 "the wars are stupid, labor is needed to balance the power of capital, global warming is real and serious, public programs are important and need to be sensibly designed, racism is still a thing that needs to be fought, we need serious Justice reform, invest in infrastructure" type

This form of conservatism has not been prevalent since the 50s.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 19:42

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

tsa posted:

The right is going to swing libertarian and will become increasingly popular with millennials.

Crowsbeak posted:

Yeah the only ones who will turn to that would be those who already voted Republican anyways.

Let's say that, in theory, a Republican congress endorses federal weed decriminalization (or at least nationwide legalization of medical cannabis) before a Democratic president lowers its Stage. And drops the gay bashing and... hell, maybe eases off abortion. Even with their lower class-destroying economic policies, a slight easing of their social policies as well as throwing a bone to the young voters that the Dems haven't yet would get them a lot of attention.

That said, a lot has to happen before it gets to that point.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 20:28

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

baw posted:

Like, the US is becoming less white. That's not really disputable.

Within the century whites won't even be the majority ethnicity, even if they build a wall in all likelihood

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 20:30

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

baw posted:

Then they lose the Evangelical vote, which is critical for them to even have a chance at the presidency.

What chance at the presidency do they have now? Small share of the youth and women vote, almost no share of the minority vote, aging voterbase. Their current strategy is doomed to oblivion.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 20:31

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Dr. Tough posted:

Whites will always be a majority of the US population. The day that "white" as it's defined now dips to 49.9% is the day that "hispanic" disappears as a racial category.

This guy gets it.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 20:36

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Relentlessboredomm posted:

Add in support for universal health care and anti-intervention and this describes most of my beliefs. Is that called something? I can never figure out what each of the different classifications of liberal/conservative/socialist/labor even means anymore.

- the wars are stupid
- labor is needed to balance the power of capital
- global warming is real and serious
- public programs are important and need to be sensibly designed
- racism is still a thing that needs to be fought
- we need serious Justice reform
- invest in infrastructure
- support for universal healthcare
- anti-intervention

Congratulations, you're a leftist.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 21:02

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Fried Chicken posted:

If this is an April Fool's prank there will be a lot of blowback, if it is real, holy poo poo that's a hell of a win by labor organizers

McDonald's to Raise Hourly Pay for 90,000 Workers

This is not poo poo you joke about. Seems like a major step in the right direction.

# ¿ Apr 1, 2015 21:41

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Wouldn't a bill with changed wording need to go through committee or at the very least be formally amended and voted on again? Can they just... change it and have him sign a different thing like this?

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 01:37

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

ErIog posted:

This could be the quote of any night since Obama's inauguration in 2009. The right can't decide whether Obama is Hitler or Chamberlain. It might have something to do with their focus.

Schrodinger's Obama. To a right-wing commentator, an unobserved President Obama is both spineless and a tyrant until observed and the wave function collapses.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 01:45

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

Yes, yes you do. You whore out your boss to amuse a billionaire. You take calls at 3am to listen to rambles about UFO's to amuse a billionaire. You eat poo poo to amuse a billionaire. What the gently caress kinda lobbyist is this guy?

That was the funniest bit to me as well

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 18:14

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

A Winner is Jew posted:

$700k isn't that much though. My wife and I could clear that in like 4-5 years tops.

I'm such a 1%.

That's still 5-odd whole years of income for a middle-class working couple. Or 10 or so years of income for a single middle class worker. Or two or three years of income for someone in the lower edge of the 1%. That's a lot.

JT Jag fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Apr 3, 2015

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 20:34

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

Why move? Do the above and claim you were put out of business by the "gay agenda," acquire a few media contracts to defend RFRA, and become a regular talking head.

Fox News contributor (whatever their name is), former owner of Memories Pizza has a certain ring to it

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 21:14

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

ReidRansom posted:

I doubt these people are well-spoken enough to be talking heads.

How cute, you actually think that the ability to be a captivating speaker is a prerequisite to be a political talking head.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 21:19

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Spaceman Future! posted:

You think Fox, purveyor of blonds with exposed legs for 6 months until they are considered old and haggard, are going to put a ugly snaggletoothed religious loose canon on the air? Shes not a man or pretend political rep, she has no future as any kind of figurehead.

Yeah, on a panel, not on their own show or anything.

# ¿ Apr 3, 2015 21:20

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

How are u posted:

I'm looking for somebody to reassure me. Today The Guardian had a big old article about how congressional Republicans are gearing up to sink Obama's deal with Iran by any means necessary.

Somebody tell me they won't be able to do it. This deal is one of the best things to come out of Obama's presidency, and I'd be loving heartbroken to see it scuttled by Republicans doing the same thing they've been doing for the past six years.

We need this deal, for a more peaceful world. Tell me I'm afraid of something that's not going to happen.

Even if the Republicans scuttle it I'm guessing they might have prepared for Republican intransigence when drafting the deal and the other nations involved might be capable of proceeding without us on more lenient terms, that's mild optimism though

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 07:01

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Pyroxene Stigma posted:

Is anyone in this thread opposed to a $20/hr minimum wage?

I think more important than any specific dollar figure is that the federal minimum wage be pegged to inflation and automatically adjusted every few years. The fact that it isn't is how it's fallen so far behind in the last few decades.

# ¿ Apr 4, 2015 10:59

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Joementum posted:

Still totally legal to carry a working firearm on school property in Tennessee, but please no toy guns or swords.

This is a clear violation of the second amendment rights of Highlanders, sighing Reagans, and Renfaire enthusiasts!

No, see, that clearly just prohibits an imitation firearm, machete or sword. Real machetes or swords are legal.

The wording is vague enough that I bet that would be a legitimate challenge in court.

# ¿ Apr 5, 2015 22:00

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Relentlessboredomm posted:

This was the best interview and discussion of Snowden I've ever seen, thank you John Oliver. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XEVlyP4_11M

Everyone should watch this.

This is seriously a pro-click.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 08:52

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

The WMD's were Iranian. We succeeded at forcing them to halt their WMD programs. Now, in order to preserve the dignity of the United States, our duly elected Congress must force Iran to own up to their past weapons programs before any sanctions relief is applied.

I like your jaded yellow dog Democrat character more than your hawkish Zionist one

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 19:59

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

...yellow dog democrat? Is that some kinda race thing?

Basically someone willing to vote the Democratic party line regardless of the situation, to the point where they'd vote for a yellow dog instead of a Republican if the dog was running as a Dem.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 20:08

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

Excitement doesn't win elections.

Money wins elections.

The Democrats cannot out-shill the Republicans. To do so only leads to inevitable compromising and betrayal of their own platform. The best alternative is left populism.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 20:39

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

Tell me, at what point did R-money have a commanding lead in money?

Romney and Romney-associated PACs had a significant funding lead during the summer of 2012, after he clinched the nomination

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 21:06

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

Summer of 2012, he didn't have a monetary lead for how many quarters preceding that? 2 Q's of leading versus how many of being behind?

Funding was split between the various Republican candidates before then. Once Romney got the nod, he shot out to a funding lead, though it ebbed away to more or less funding parity by the time of the election.

# ¿ Apr 6, 2015 21:22

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Manny Ninefinger's Last Stand

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 04:53

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Xibanya posted:

My boss was arguing against providing subsidized vaccinations to children. I am for it because I don't like human suffering but I argued with him that it will save money when these kids don't have to go to the ER with some awful disease. My boss answered that they can go to "low cost hospitals" funded by charity if they come down with measles.

Yeah it's impossible to argue cost because they don't actually give a poo poo about saving money, they just don't want the "undeserving" to get help.

But on the whole "let him die" business, people who are alive, employed, and pay taxes are hella valuable to an economy. The death of Paul's campaign guy was expensive - the guy had a fairly nice earnings potential regardless of whatever his job was. So now you don't have him paying taxes. You don't have him buying goods and services (with revenue on which vendors will pay taxes). And now his family's demand for goods and services is depressed by the debt. Since he was fairly young, his death may have cost the economy a million dollars. But we'd rather lose that money and those lives than help the undeserving. Welp.

The problem with this is that the primary purpose of the economic policies of the Republican party is not stimulation of the economy or governmental cost savings.

It's spite.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 18:48

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

DemeaninDemon posted:

Who gives a gently caress?

He's asking if EBT is revenue neutral, which in this age of austerity fatalism is one of the primary requirements to get anything done unless it's military spending.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 20:07

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Honestly the Republican Party should change their name, because what they practice isn't even honest conservatism any more. They're honestly closer to anarcho-capitalists than proper conservatives.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 20:31

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Warcabbit posted:

Remember, Walker's the one who is skipping payments on his state's debt. He's fiscally conservative.

I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if Walker's government was instructed to deliberately bankrupt his state government, and they never expected his reforms to produce any revenue. It only strengthens the Republican message of 'government is ineffective and wasteful, this can all be done better by private enterprise'.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 20:38

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

RuanGacho posted:

I wonder how much time it would buy us collectively to just start calling them that outright, and then when they object just say "please explain how you are conservative" forcing them into defense against the Socratic method.

Republicans call Democrats socialists and communists all the time, it's only fair play to call them anarchists in return.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 20:49

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Trabisnikof posted:

How can they be anarchists if they're authoritarians? Checkmate libtrad.

Anarcho-Capitalism. The boot of the corporation stomping the face of the worker forever, without any government interference. Corporations becoming sovereign entities capable of making their own laws, effective for those employed by them, being the highest authority in the land.

Republicans want to destroy America as we know it and grind it down into countless petty corporate tributaries. Their vision of the future is Shadowrun, but without the cool magic poo poo.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 20:53

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

zoux posted:

Who's vision of the future is making Anime real?

The Green Party

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 20:54

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

DemeaninDemon posted:

What the gently caress are you talking about here?

Metaphors that confuse me aside the argument about policy isn't my goal or whatever. It's to highlight the GOP runs on spite and contempt for poor people.

He's asking how exactly do you go about selling programs like EBT to lawmakers, who first and foremost care about doing things they can put on campaign ads. Unless you can frame EBT and other welfare programs in a way that is politically expedient, even Democrats will be reluctant to spend their political capital on it.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 21:33

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Everblight posted:

"Hmm, what looks good on a campaign ad? Maybe me literally feeding the destitute, giving back to my community or even a smiling child with a full belly?.... nah"

You can pretend to do that without actually enacting any laws. Come on, give me facts, numbers, figures that politicians could use to sell welfare programs in ads.

I like MIGF more when he's doing this because he is regrettably right about how a lot of domestic politics works.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 21:41

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Basically, what needs to happen is someone needs to fund a study that proves that food stamps and programs like it lower the unemployment rate, or otherwise positively impacts one of the other economic indicators that are simple to understand and sound important to the majority of people. And then every Democratic policymaker should trumpet the fact that these programs lower unemployment, and if you are against them, you're for a weaker, less productive nation. The fact that people aren't starving is just a neat side-effect. It's disingenuous as hell, but that's how things work.

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 21:53

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Captain_Maclaine posted:

And Georgia.

And South Florida when the Biscayne Aquifer is inevitably contaminated with saltwater

# ¿ Apr 7, 2015 23:57

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

If you had to pick the best position within a Hillary whitehouse for Rahm, what would you pick?

Secretary of Commerce maybe

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 18:38

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

Gravel Gravy posted:

Why stop there? I am all for the AGA, Affordable Gun Act aka Obamagun. Mandatory guns for everyone or pay a fine. Alternatively if you like your gun you can keep it.

Subsidized weapon purchases for every adult American (you can get away with not owning your own gun until 26 under your parents' coverage)

The NRA would hate it

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 20:26

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

My Imaginary GF posted:

Ya'll overlooking the obvious policy option: allow vets to keep their gun. You serve, you get to take your M16 home with you.

Active national guard members too, because well regulated militia.

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 20:48

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# ¿ May 15, 2024 13:02

JT Jag: Aug 30, 2009; #1 Jaguars Sunk Cost Fallacy-Haver

zoux posted:

Weird. Did you coin that term? I've never seen it before?

Yeah nice to meet you, my name is James Madison, I wrote something up about this once

Side note: I bet if you asked a selection of Americans who was primarily responsible for writing the Constitution, significantly more would answer Thomas Jefferson than Madison

# ¿ Apr 8, 2015 20:52

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > USPol April: Posting Cafe & Bakery (NOTE: Baby-killing gays need not apply)

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