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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:didnt nyc do a mumbai type training scenario and came to the conclusion that first responders to that kind of attack were totally hosed? You mean 9-11?
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Apr 2, 2015 15:00
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Smiling Jack, not a member of the 1 or 2%. Even at that salary.
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Apr 2, 2015 15:11
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Is waiting outside movie theaters after a Fast and Furious movie to catch people racing in the parking lot still a thing or did it die out after the third movie or so?
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Apr 2, 2015 15:15
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BexGu posted:Is waiting outside movie theaters after a Fast and Furious movie to catch people racing in the parking lot still a thing or did it die out after the third movie or so? After the first movie actually. If you still have fart pipes on your car you deserve to be publicly ridiculed. If you see cops waiting outside near the theater they probably are watching for drunks leaving the nearby bar, and actually have no idea the movie was playing.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:00
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Smiling Jack posted:Punching someone in the face isn't even an arrestable crime in many jurisdictions. Please tell me where.
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Apr 2, 2015 16:12
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Nostalgia4Murder posted:Please tell me where. Virginia. If it's misdemeanor assault not in my presence you can get your own drat warrant. ....That is to say it's an officers discretion to arrest, simply write a ticket for a misdemeanor, or advise warrants. Untagged fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 17:07
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It sounds amazing there.
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Apr 2, 2015 17:36
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:didnt nyc do a mumbai type training scenario and came to the conclusion that first responders to that kind of attack were totally hosed? A bunch of suicidal, trained dudes with AKs and grenades? I think a lot more than the first responders would be hosed.
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Apr 2, 2015 18:53
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What was your education level when you first joined, donut consumers?
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Apr 2, 2015 19:07
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Equine Don posted:What was your education level when you first joined, donut consumers? Graduate
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Apr 2, 2015 19:32
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Bachelor. 
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Apr 2, 2015 19:48
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Bachelors
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Apr 2, 2015 21:52
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Bachelor. I got through half of a graduate program before bailing on it because I couldn't juggle two jobs, school, and a life. I'd like to finish my masters eventually but don't really feel compelled to because there are no tangible benefits to doing so unless I want to be chief some day I guess. V - lol The Shep fucked around with this message at 22:26 on Apr 2, 2015 |
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Apr 2, 2015 22:23
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:Bachelor. I got through half of a graduate program before bailing on it because I couldn't juggle two jobs, school, and a life. I swear I quickly read this as "coudn't juggle two boobs..." and was about the say "dude that's the standard". CARRY ON
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Apr 2, 2015 22:25
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SedanChair posted:A bunch of suicidal, trained dudes with AKs and grenades? thats a real loving rude thing to call the swat team m8
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Apr 3, 2015 00:58
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Kung Fu Fist gently caress posted:thats a real loving rude thing to call the swat team m8 I would never call a swat team trained.
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Apr 3, 2015 01:11
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SedanChair posted:I would never call a swat team trained. ha
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Apr 3, 2015 01:20
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quote:
Nostalgia4Infinity fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 02:05
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Mod edit: Ask all of your questions about law enforcement here. This is a "safe space" where anyone can post but if you're poo poo posting/concern trolling don't be surprised if something bad happens to your account!|
I didn't post that poo poo, I posted "gently caress you"
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Apr 3, 2015 02:16
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Smiling Jack posted:I didn't post that poo poo, I posted "gently caress you" You're right, my apologies good sir.
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Apr 3, 2015 02:18
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i have an associates degree, in law enforcement.
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Apr 3, 2015 02:55
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Branis posted:i have an associates degree, in law enforcement. Aren't you sheriff of some tiny rear end town though?
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Apr 3, 2015 04:04
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Equine Don posted:Aren't you sheriff of some tiny rear end town though? Sheriff's departments are county, not city.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:08
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Whale Cancer posted:Sheriff's departments are county, not city. Our Sheriff serves papers and nothing more. I live in an rear end backwards county so idk
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Apr 3, 2015 04:13
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Equine Don posted:Our Sheriff serves papers and nothing more. I live in an rear end backwards county so idk They should deal with all rural crimes or crimes in towns without municipal police departments
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Apr 3, 2015 04:33
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That's entirely dependent on the state and locality for the Sheriff's Office. Some VA Sheriff's do it all like patrol, jail, courts, etc. Some just do patrol and courts, some do just jail, some do just courts and paper, some just do traffic enforcement because they don't have a courthouse. It can really depend. Then you got states like PA and DE where Sheriff's have essentially zero authority and are basically pointless agencies.
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Apr 3, 2015 04:50
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tiny county in a tiny state, but here sheriffs have full powers and are responsible for civil service and jails. Education is becoming one of the most important qualifiers for LE though, so if I want to leave this tiny poo poo hole I have to get educated.
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Apr 3, 2015 05:32
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If you pull someone over who has a CCW and they're up front and polite about the whole thing, are you more likely to give them a ticket? Someone suggested the cop would be sufficiently upset about the whole thing that they would be more likely to give you a ticket, but my impression was more that they probably wouldn't even take the firearm unless they had a reason to, and wouldn't be more inclined to demand a search or whatever.
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Apr 3, 2015 17:35
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Hey, copgoons, quick question. Do any of your departments actually do any practical threat assessment training on the regular? I'm talking about the sort that actually includes practical exercises in when to escalate to violence. I keep hearing in local political bullshit that part of the problem with any sort of reform is that there "just isn't any budget" for training, and I'm curious as to your experiences.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:16
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In my rural town, the only law enforcement is the County Sherrif, who usually doesn't patrol our area except during large events due to being so out of the way, and then there's the CHP and the National Park Rangers. The Rangers usually only ever give out tickets for illegal firewood gathering or campfires without a permit, but sometimes they give people speeding tickets on national forest roads and that's always funny to hear people whine about.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:30
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Liquid Communism posted:Hey, copgoons, quick question. Do any of your departments actually do any practical threat assessment training on the regular? I'm talking about the sort that actually includes practical exercises in when to escalate to violence. Like all government agencies, police budgets have been fairly slashed to the bare minimum, and unless you work for a large department that hosts trainings, sending officers to training means hotel rooms, class fees, and overtime which adds up quick. shortspecialbus posted:If you pull someone over who has a CCW and they're up front and polite about the whole thing, are you more likely to give them a ticket? Someone suggested the cop would be sufficiently upset about the whole thing that they would be more likely to give you a ticket, but my impression was more that they probably wouldn't even take the firearm unless they had a reason to, and wouldn't be more inclined to demand a search or whatever. depends on the cop. You might get the guy who is terrified of his shadow and when you say gun he pulls you out and pats you down and removes your gun and then treats you like a felon or you might get the guy that doesnt give a poo poo. I've never encountered standardized training on how to deal with CCW carriers, and I personally feel that if someone notifies me they are carrying i don't care if they keep it on them.
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Apr 3, 2015 18:40
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shortspecialbus posted:If you pull someone over who has a CCW and they're up front and polite about the whole thing, are you more likely to give them a ticket? Someone suggested the cop would be sufficiently upset about the whole thing that they would be more likely to give you a ticket, but my impression was more that they probably wouldn't even take the firearm unless they had a reason to, and wouldn't be more inclined to demand a search or whatever. Having a ccw has no relevance on whether they get a ticket or not from me. I do ask everyone I stop if they have a weapon in the car. But I have to phrase it as "without reaching for it, do you have any weapons in the car?" If I don't say it like that I end up with "Durrrr I sure do *reaches for colt python stuffed between the seat and center console*
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Apr 3, 2015 20:15
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I'm pro right to carry, and I'd like to know if you have it. If I'm going to write you a ticket the fact that you have a CCW gives zero weight on my decision though. I probably decided the moment I pulled out of my spot if this is likely a warning stop or a cite stop. Edit. The only time I've disarmed a ccw from someone on a stop was when they were drunk or high. Untagged fucked around with this message at 20:41 on Apr 3, 2015 |
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Apr 3, 2015 20:36
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Liquid Communism posted:Hey, copgoons, quick question. Do any of your departments actually do any practical threat assessment training on the regular? I'm talking about the sort that actually includes practical exercises in when to escalate to violence. We do it in our "academy" but we don't have ongoing training in it. Honestly, we need way more of it - I'd say scenario training provides a huge training value that is necessary for modern law enforcement. The problem is that scenario training doesn't provide value unless you have solid fundamental skills. Fundamental skills are what we usually think of as law enforcement training - defensive tactics, firearms manipulations, positioning and communication. So scenario training can't replace that initial training. It has to follow it. So that means adding weeks of training, which requires roleplayers, props (including vehicles, weapons, and furniture, etc) and locations that provide useful approximations of real life locations. None of that is usually free. The highest value scenario training includes simulated use of force tools (firearms, baton, OC, taser), which are even more expensive. It's a hard sell to convince management of the importance of this kind of training on an ongoing manner.
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Apr 3, 2015 21:25
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shortspecialbus posted:If you pull someone over who has a CCW and they're up front and polite about the whole thing, are you more likely to give them a ticket? Someone suggested the cop would be sufficiently upset about the whole thing that they would be more likely to give you a ticket, but my impression was more that they probably wouldn't even take the firearm unless they had a reason to, and wouldn't be more inclined to demand a search or whatever. If I were still doing traffic enforcement: I don't see why a CCW holder telling me he has a weapon would get me any more upset at them than anyone else. Obviously I want to know if you have your gun (and the law requires that anyhow) but as long as you're complying with the law in that regard I really don't care about the gun. If you're driving like an idiot I'm far more concerned with if you have kids in the car and have them in a car seat than if you have a gun.
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Apr 3, 2015 21:26
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Whale Cancer posted:Having a ccw has no relevance on whether they get a ticket or not from me. Reminds me of when I worked for a bank call centre. "Now don't tell me your PIN number, but do you still remember what it" - "OH SURE MY PIN IS 1234". Even when I worded it as carefully as I could, there was always inevitably that one person who would manage to blurt it out.
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Apr 3, 2015 23:59
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Felix_Cat posted:PIN number why!?
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Apr 4, 2015 00:02
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Liquid Communism posted:Hey, copgoons, quick question. Do any of your departments actually do any practical threat assessment training on the regular? I'm talking about the sort that actually includes practical exercises in when to escalate to violence. In my experience, I would participate in probably 8-16 hours of practical scenario training each year. This included various active shooter, rapid deployment, firearms drills, room clearing, felony stops, etc. The majority of training that officers go to, in my experience, is classroom based. For example, most recently I attended a 16 hour refresher and update class on vehicle and traffic laws. On average, I would say I attend 3-6 days a year of additional and refresher training. Most of the training that cops get is at the academy and on the job field training, after that it's varies from department to department. All cops attend generally a 3-6 month academy basic training course and then go on to an additional 3-6 months of field training with experienced officers. Most cops will tell you that it really takes 3-5 years before you're really settled in to doing the job and feel comfortable and confident doing everything it entails. There is a bigger focus on training now then there has ever been in law enforcement, though I agree it's still lacking. The fact that there are no on-going training standards between departments or to a lesser extent, states, is a problem as well. Budget concerns are an issue like you mentioned, but man-power is probably just as big of an issue. The vast majority of police departments in the country are something like 1-20 man departments. Taking 1 or 2 officers out of shift rotation to send them to training puts a hurt on the schedule that is difficult to cover. SedanChair joked (although was likely serious) that SWAT teams aren't trained. I disagree. The multi-jurisdictional SWAT teams in my area train more often than any other unit I'm aware of. The problem though is that if you talk to D&D, they have this idea of some mythical level of training and qualifications that can't be met because there is not infinity money and the applicant pool isn't going to get any better than it already is without substantially raising salaries, and even then it might not change much. PD's are having a tough time as it is recruiting qualified applicants, and you'd be surprised that qualified applicant and level of education aren't necessarily related to eachother.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:24
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Cmdr. Shepard posted:SedanChair joked (although was likely serious) that SWAT teams aren't trained. I disagree. The multi-jurisdictional SWAT teams in my area train more often than any other unit I'm aware of. The problem though is that if you talk to D&D, they have this idea of some mythical level of training and qualifications that can't be met because there is not infinity money and the applicant pool isn't going to get any better than it already is without substantially raising salaries, and even then it might not change much. PD's are having a tough time as it is recruiting qualified applicants, and you'd be surprised that qualified applicant and level of education aren't necessarily related to each other. I've noticed that there are a lot of people out there (by which I mean society at large, not D&D) that seem to think that 'more training' will make unfeasible or unsafe tactics workable. For example, if the police shoot someone who was clearly armed with, say, a knife they don't like it because what they really want is for the police to never shoot anyone. When you point out that a knife is a deadly weapon though, they realize they'll look like a total idiot if they say "well I don't care; I just don't want COPS shooting anyone." So, they dress it up with comments like "well, the police should be trained to take away knives without shooting people." As to qualified applicants, I've noticed that in small departments they often actively avoid better qualified applicants because they don't fit into the social scene of the department. My old department was like this: If you were a young guy, they were looking for you to have played high school football locally. Not any other sport, football, preferably in games on local radio. If you were a little older, it was important that you ride a motorcycle - and not a crotch rocket. These were critical elements in "fitting in".
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Apr 4, 2015 01:16
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That kind of small town good old boy system-ing is endemic to pretty much all small town and especially rural politics. One of the ways to combat is to centralize services to state level, for example. But as it is with the types of government, it is neither easy or even lawful in many cases. I can speak from the stories of old timers in Finland. My birth town had one single dude acting as the civil law-version of the "Sheriff", translated to roughly just a "Process Server", but still had policing rights and responsibilites. No one who wasn't drinking vodka with a bunch of guys in the Volunteer Fire Station could hope to be one of the deputies. Ever. And if he wanted to retire, only one to follow him would be a person he wanted to. And Finland would most likely still have that, if not for the massive regionalizing efforts of the early 2000s where Fire Rescue Medical and Police were organized into massive Departments spanning hundreds of miles, somewhat alike to State Police here in the US. With small national services along the National Bureau of Investigation and Security Police, there are only 12 Police Departments and a Highway Patrol, but Highway Patrol was also merged into the 12 regional ones recently. Fire Services went from separate local small town single station volunteer depts and city departments into massive, 20 separate Fire Rescue Departments that spans cities, rural areas and suburbs for loving forever, creating systems that have 14 paid stations, 20 part time and 70 volunteer stations, for example, managing all that centrally. Now if you want to volunteer at your local fire station, you don't have to gently caress the right cousin and wash the cars of the mayor anymore, you just apply online. National standards set the strict fitness requirements and if you are fat, you are made non-riding. Back in the day the local chief would just falsify the documents to get his fat buddies to stay in the engine. Most importantly, small town police chiefs and fire chiefs were removed and only local station commanders and patrol commanders remained. Hiring and Firing is done by a separate HR and there is only one National Police Colleges, plus two National Fire Colleges. Good old boy systems don't work anymore, since the small time dick who wants to hire all his relatives has no power in the town anymore. I love the system, but the best is to listen to the old timers whine and moan about the old times and how all that was better (it wasn't) and what they got off of with. And not just emergency services, these systems work in government and small businesses and what not. Answer to all of that is pretty much always centralization. While not without issues, it definitely makes things more streamlined and effective. Policing is very centralized in most countries in the world. Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Apr 5, 2015 |
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Apr 4, 2015 01:34
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