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L-Boned posted:Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I see. Obviously, everyone else saw my point that was if you just went by qualified recipients, there was no way that kid was getting the heart. quote:o, anyone claiming racism is a moron. Race and white guilt was actually the only reason he got a second chance to start with. You said it's not about race, then you said it's about race. I think maybe you're just a stupid motherfucker.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:41
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Popular Thug Drink posted:You said it's not about race, then you said it's about race. I think maybe you're just a stupid motherfucker. I don't think that guy should be allowed to get organ transplants, as he would obviously waste them.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:42
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Zo posted:
Nobody knows if that is what happened. You're only assuming as much so you can enjoy the death of a black teenager.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:43
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so the hospital made the right call from the beginning. It's almost as if we should let medical professionals do their job, instead of having religious advocacy groups pressure them into doing dumb things. Crazy thought.
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black people can't even get an organ transplant in this country without it becoming major national news
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Apr 4, 2015 03:43
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Popular Thug Drink posted:You said it's not about race, then you said it's about race. I think maybe you're just a stupid motherfucker. Name calling. What morons resort to when they get called out. Sorry that intellect isn't your strong suit.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:44
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L-Boned posted:Name calling. What morons resort to when they get called out. Sorry that intellect isn't your strong suit. No, I don't think he was namecalling, any more than you are. I believe that PTD was actually accusing you of the sin of incest, which is disturbingly plausible, and in fact a family history of consanguinity seems entirely likely at this point.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:46
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L-Boned posted:Name calling. What morons resort to when they get called out. Sorry that intellect isn't your strong suit. Surely you can do better Friday night drunkposting than this. Have some pride in your work, son.
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Apr 4, 2015 03:54
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This thread is attracting terrible posters like flies to honey.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:00
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People do terrible things, therefore deny stereotypes essential life saving treatments.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:07
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The thread really should have been closed after this, because lol at that twiiter exchange. There is just no pleasing people.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:17
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Look at all this racism
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Apr 4, 2015 04:55
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To be fair to the wizard who decided to give him a heart, this kid was less destructive to society than any of the people running for President in 2016.
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Apr 4, 2015 04:57
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Bob James posted:To be fair to the wizard who decided to give him a heart, this kid was less destructive to society than any of the people running for President in 2016. Seriously, he was far more peaceful than Dick Cheney. So I'll count this as a win.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:06
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Seriously, the souls of Iraqi children are a scarce resource too, and we let Cheney harvest them to keep his decrepit corporeal form functioning even as doctors warned him that his noncompliance with their medical recommendation to stop channeling the powers of the darkest hells would just land him back on the list.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:15
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Kaal posted:According to the Christian advocacy group that spearheaded the effort to get him his heart, they connected him with a mentoring organization but lost direct contact after the surgery was successful. Unless you expect them to perform constant oversight for years afterward, it sounds to me like they did their due diligence. I mean it's not like Stokes was wandering down the hospital corridors with a gun in hand stealing clipboards - regardless of his actions outside of the medical environment, I'm sure he was just a normal patient while under their care. Certainly if I was in charge of their organization, I'd have thought that resources would be better spent helping other people in need, rather than babysitting one person for political reasons. fair enough, I suppose that part of my post was pretty lazy when a simple googling could have given me actual facts on the matter
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Apr 4, 2015 05:30
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I don't see the story here. It's kind of depressing to hear about somebody given a reprieve at life and wasting it, but I don't think there's much of a problem to discussed or solved here.
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Apr 4, 2015 05:36
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Motto posted:I don't see the story here. It's kind of depressing to hear about somebody given a reprieve at life and wasting it, but I don't think there's much of a problem to discussed or solved here. the news media lives and dies on manufactured outrage and button pushing. why do you think the five o clock news is nothing but murders, crimes, houses burning and missing children?
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Apr 4, 2015 05:49
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Saying this issue is about Race is idiotic when a White kid with the same criminal record should have been denied as well.
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Apr 4, 2015 06:08
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L-Boned posted:Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, I see. Obviously, everyone else saw my point that was if you just went by qualified recipients, there was no way that kid was getting the heart. "I'm afraid you're...underqualified to receive
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Apr 4, 2015 06:13
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tumblr.txt posted:Saying this issue is about Race is idiotic when a White kid with the same criminal record should have been denied as well. ...so then stop saying it's about race? The power to stop being an idiot lies within ~u~
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Apr 4, 2015 06:21
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Popular Thug Drink posted:...so then stop saying it's about race? The power to stop being an idiot lies within ~u~
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Apr 4, 2015 07:13
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A Buttery Pastry posted:It's theoretically possible that the denial wasn't about race, but the impetus to overturn it was. Not from the parents of course, most parents would probably have done what they did, but the SCLC did get involved. Oh yeah, the SCLC which only advocates for minority rights exclusively and doesn't really care about the poor or disadvantaged. Race pimps.
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Apr 4, 2015 07:16
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Popular Thug Drink posted:Oh yeah, the SCLC which only advocates for minority rights exclusively and doesn't really care about the poor or disadvantaged. Race pimps.
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Apr 4, 2015 07:36
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Or maybe hyu-mons have sympathy for terminally ill teenagers and if you put pictures of sick kids on TV and the internet, there will be a lot of public support and pressure to do everything we can for them? "But who would have sympathy for a Negro? Must have been white guilt"-Goons
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Apr 4, 2015 07:50
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VitalSigns posted:
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Apr 4, 2015 08:36
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I'm not sure what the problem is here. Are people saying that doctors should have looked at this kid and decided that he didn't deserve to live?
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Apr 4, 2015 08:53
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If he was the only one in need of a heart, of course he should get it. If there were others on the waiting list, who were of reasonable age, and they did not have his criminal history, they should have got the heart instead.
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Apr 4, 2015 09:04
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tumblr.txt posted:If he was the only one in need of a heart, of course he should get it. What if it's nothing but criminals? Do they throw the heart in the trash? What if it's a criminal heart, is that worthy? Surely you can put your predictive powers to good use here.
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Apr 4, 2015 09:08
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tumblr.txt posted:If he was the only one in need of a heart, of course he should get it. So, the lives of people with criminal records are worth less than the lives of people without criminal records? Further, doctors should attempt to evaluate the relative worth of the lives of their patients and base medical decisions on their conclusions?
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Apr 4, 2015 09:09
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TheImmigrant posted:"Death sentence" is a really dishonest way to frame the issue. Organ transplants are a matter of triage. There simply are not enough viable organs to go around, and some people will not get the organs they need to survive. Please read all of my post and not just the part that your idiot child brain disagrees with. The hospital was well within its rights to put Stokes lower on the priority list. They have protocol to follow. However, the suggestion that his parents are somehow bad people for trying to save the life of their child in response to this is patently absurd. Expecting them to do hosed up moral calculus about the potential of his society-defined success versus ending up in jail based on teenage delinquency and conclude that some nice white child down the way deserves the heart more, as some posters seem to do, is what I am objecting to. Because it's stupid, you see. If you showed them some angelic little girl in desperate need of a new heart, then, okay, maybe a particularly selfless family would accept that. But if you present the idea of a nebulous Other Person On A List Somewhere, then you are going to meet resistance. For what it's worth, I think that there is a good discussion to be had about organ priority protocols, the effect of a patient's race in doctor assessment, and organ scarcity. I would be very surprised to see that discussion emerge here, given that we are on what appears to be round 3 of the "concerned parents... or race-baiters!?!?" argument.
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Apr 4, 2015 10:46
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Hodgepodge posted:So, the lives of people with criminal records are worth less than the lives of people without criminal records? quote:Further, doctors should attempt to evaluate the relative worth of the lives of their patients and base medical decisions on their conclusions?
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Apr 4, 2015 11:51
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tumblr.txt posted:All else being equal, if you have to choose, yes. A thousand times yes. I am astounded that there is any disagreement here. I have an exquisitely-defined hierarchy of racial consideration, based on self-loathing and embarrassingly sophomoric fetishism, to use in determining what is Right.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:00
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tumblr.txt posted:If you can only pick one person to save, of course. It makes more sense to pick Susie, who is a straight-A student who volunteers for charity on the weekend, instead of Bob the noted car thief. The public was not presented with this choice. They were shown pictures of one cute 15-year-old kid in a hospital bed talking about wanting a second chance. The same thing was done for the 10-year-old white girl, and that worked too, even though a cold rational calculus would say that adult lungs should go to larger people who are more likely to survive if we want to maximize life. But people aren't rational, and in both cases pictures of one cute kid vs some vague Other Person On The List worked to get public sympathy. The fact that you think white guilt is the only way a person might have sympathy for the black child who was rejected is quite frankly bizarre.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:20
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I'm not convinced it's White Guilt, more a refusal to believe that maybe, just maybe, a teen with 11 arrests is a bad person compared to your average kid. Again - I don't care what colour the guy was, the criminal record is enough for me.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:28
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You sound like you care, because you really really want to use it as a soapbox for why black people get all the breaks, even though your only proof for race-baiting being involved was "well, he was black! Race-baiting is what they do!"
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Apr 4, 2015 12:33
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VitalSigns posted:You sound like you care, because you really really want to use it as a soapbox for why black people get all the breaks, even though your only proof for race-baiting being involved was "well, he was black! Race-baiting is what they do!" Having an opinion on someone else's thread is capital-C Caring. You sound like you Care.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:35
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tumblr.txt posted:All else being equal, if you have to choose, yes. A thousand times yes. I am astounded that there is any disagreement here. You're astounded that people object to doctors personally deciding which lives are more valuable than others? Or that people object to the idea that a criminal record makes one's life inherently worth less than that of others? In either case, if you are actually astonished that people disagree with your position, I'm afraid that the most charitable conclusion that I can reach is that you are fairly ignorant of questions ethics and morality, and that your astonishment is the result of unquestioned assumptions being challenged and reevaluated. For example, your position disallows any idea of inherent human rights. If one life is less valuable than another, and the difference is decided by the state, and may result in deprivation of life-saving treatment (a basic human right), then humans only have rights at the pleasure of the state. In a medical context, this has disturbing implications. So just to be clear, do you think it is obvious that a juvenile record should strip citizens of their basic human rights? Likewise, making the decision to not provide life-saving medical intervention cuts right to the heart of medical ethics. Most doctors take an oath specifically to respect human life and (in more recent years) human rights. Do you think that a criminal record is sufficient cause to exempt doctors from their oaths?
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Apr 4, 2015 12:38
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Hodgepodge posted:You're astounded that people object to doctors personally deciding which lives are more valuable than others? Look up the word 'triage.' Then grow up, lifeless muppet.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:47
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VitalSigns posted:You sound like you care, because you really really want to use it as a soapbox for why black people get all the breaks, even though your only proof for race-baiting being involved was "well, he was black! Race-baiting is what they do!" Hodgepodge posted:You're astounded that people object to doctors personally deciding which lives are more valuable than others? quote:For example, your position disallows any idea of inherent human rights. If one life is less valuable than another, and the difference is decided by the state, and may result in deprivation of life-saving treatment (a basic human right), then humans only have rights at the pleasure of the state. In a medical context, this has disturbing implications. Do I think it's ethical for doctors to step in and say it's idiotic to give them to patient A, so therefore patient B gets her life saved? Absolutely. Taking a "all life is special, let's flip a coin to see who wins the lungs" view is foolish in a world with finite resources. Atlanta guy is the same thing, just to a lesser degree. quote:So just to be clear, do you think it is obvious that a juvenile record should strip citizens of their basic human rights? quote:Likewise, making the decision to not provide life-saving medical intervention cuts right to the heart of medical ethics. Most doctors take an oath specifically to respect human life and (in more recent years) human rights. Do you think that a criminal record is sufficient cause to exempt doctors from their oaths?
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Apr 4, 2015 12:52
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tumblr.txt posted:What the hell? Please, quote which posts of mine you read to reach that conclusion. Are you sure you're not mixing me up with someone else? tumblr.txt posted:
This kind of implied to me that you were jumping on the "the only reason that PR campaign worked is because he was black" train. If I misinterpreted then, I apologize.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:58
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