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Dazzling Addar posted:Teenage delinquency is not sufficient grounds for a death sentence, "Death sentence" is a really dishonest way to frame the issue. Organ transplants are a matter of triage. There simply are not enough viable organs to go around, and some people will not get the organs they need to survive. You might as well call it "genocide." It would be about as accurate.
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Apr 4, 2015 00:09
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tumblr.txt posted:All else being equal, if you have to choose, yes. A thousand times yes. I am astounded that there is any disagreement here. I have an exquisitely-defined hierarchy of racial consideration, based on self-loathing and embarrassingly sophomoric fetishism, to use in determining what is Right.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:00
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VitalSigns posted:You sound like you care, because you really really want to use it as a soapbox for why black people get all the breaks, even though your only proof for race-baiting being involved was "well, he was black! Race-baiting is what they do!" Having an opinion on someone else's thread is capital-C Caring. You sound like you Care.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:35
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Hodgepodge posted:You're astounded that people object to doctors personally deciding which lives are more valuable than others? Look up the word 'triage.' Then grow up, lifeless muppet.
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Apr 4, 2015 12:47
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Effectronica posted:The team of experts made a decision based on the likelihood of his taking his medication. By that metric, they absolutely made a mistake in their initial evaluation, because the transplant was a resounding success and the kid took his meds. They don't use a metric of "social worth", which is why you are allowed to be prescribed medication. How do you feel about Mickey Mantle receiving a liver transplant?
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Apr 4, 2015 14:06
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Effectronica posted:They looked at the medical criteria, they decided to try and save the patient's life, they failed because his cancer had been malignant for some time. Too bad. You could argue that they made a mistake there, but I don't think the two situations are at all comparable. Mantle was a clearer case of mistaken medical judgment (he received a transplant the day after going on the list), but the hospital's reversal of their initial decision about Stokes' transplant was a mistake as well. quote:Anyways, what's your medical background? Moonlight as a surgeon in between trips to the Golden Triangle? My medical background is probably no more or less than that of any of the other bloviators on this thread. You sound jealous of being able to travel. Jealousy will eat you up, son.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:21
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Effectronica posted:You believe that you can clearly discern who deserves to live and who does not deserve to live, judging by your posts in this thread. Normal people would be embarrassed to post something like this.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:22
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Effectronica posted:No, it wasn't. The medical judgement in the reversal was completely sound, because he was healthy, physically active, and was obviously taking his meds. The medical judgement did not involve "This kid is likely to commit crimes in the future" or else it was not triage. Yes, it was. Mantle and Stokes shared a high risk of premature death due to lifestyle. quote:Ah, you realize that claiming both legal and medical expertise would stretch credibility beyond belief. A good sign. Yes, some of us are aware that we are not omniscient. Give it a try - maybe take a break from Posting and get a passport. You know, meet some Furriners. It couldn't hurt your Posting.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:28
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Effectronica posted:Lifestyle factors cannot be and are not a major consideration in medicine, in large part because the natural conclusion of using them is that the rich get healthcare and the poor get gently caress-all, along with other unjust outcomes. For example, lifelong chain-smokers still receive treatment for lung cancer and emphysema rather than putting them automatically into category 2. We are talking about a limited number of organs, not generic treatment. I'm sorry if the distinction eludes you, but if that is the case I suggest you take up an activity more commensurate with your intellect, like fingerpainting.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:35
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Effectronica posted:There's actually nothing that says that organ transplants are special, especially in the ideas in this thread people like you and "tumblr.txt" have been espousing. Triage, for example, applies to all medical care, because all medical care is inherently finite. Besides, treatments for lung cancer and emphysema are often extensive and expensive and take up a lot of resources that could be freed up by leaving smokers to die. Hell, there's a constant shortage of blood, but apparently that's not sufficient reason to deny it to people in risky lifestyles. Organ transplants are very limited, but that's not a difference in kind. Yes, the difference in degree of shortage makes the difference one of kind. The shortage of transplant organs necessarily means that some people who could be saved by a transplant must die. This isn't the case, at least not in the everyday US, with generic medical treatment or blood transfusions.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:45
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Bel Shazar posted:Are you sure about that? That is about deaths due to lack of health insurance, not shortage of medical care. It's definitely an issue, but not they one we are discussing here.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:51
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Effectronica posted:No, it doesn't. There are plenty of procedures and medicines, "generic medical treatment", that are so limited in availability that they cannot be made generally available and some people who could be saved by them must die. For example?
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Apr 4, 2015 14:51
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Bel Shazar posted:So... your argument is that the inability to get medical care doesn't equate to the inability to get medical care? No, that is not my argument.
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Apr 4, 2015 14:57
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Effectronica posted:Orphan drugs are probably the quintessential example. Paroxysmal nocturnal hemoglobinuria, which affects between 7000-14000 people per year, is treated with Soliris, which costs over $400,000 a year to administer, and bone marrow transplants, which are risky. Both are limited in effectiveness, as well. The majority of people with the disease cannot access treatment, and it has a high fatality rate. People die every year because of this. Fair point.
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Apr 4, 2015 15:11
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Popular Thug Drink posted:I'm enjoying how the D&D reactionaries are trying every argument under the sun as to why it's a moral harm to give organ transplants to black teens when there are so many deserving white people. Maybe race isn't a consideration for everyone here.
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Apr 5, 2015 00:37
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Adventure Pigeon posted:I was hoping this thread would move into "is there strong evidence or proof of racism in the organ triage process and, based on this, what role if any should public advocacy play", but nope, still retarded. Racism is a given when dealing with white people, other than self-loathing white people.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:33
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Adventure Pigeon posted:What about white people who aren't self loathing but do feel mild disappointment in themselves? Half racist? I defer to Che Brigadistas on issues of Doctrine.
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Apr 5, 2015 16:44
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shrike82 posted:What I find funny is the attempt to white-wash the guy's behavior as teenagers being teenagers. Please rephrase your statement in a non-racist way, or I shall be forced to report you for reeducation.
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Apr 5, 2015 18:54
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VitalSigns posted:I love the persecution complex. Excellent post, tovarishch.
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Apr 5, 2015 19:00
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shrike82 posted:maybe sedanchair's privy to something we aren't? Amassing thousands of posts without ever having typed more than a single sentence in any of them? Freezing one's face in a perpetual sneer? Auto-fellatio? The most awesome wiggery in the history of wiggertude?
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Apr 5, 2015 21:09
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Who What Now posted:Uhhhh... That'd be pretty impressive considering he isn't white. Cool! Instant Internet Gravitas! I'm 6'9".
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Apr 5, 2015 21:14
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