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I'd agree with the last half season being the roughest. You knew the end was coming and you're expecting things to either get wrapped up (McCann buying them out, Don and Megan split up) or start setting up storylines that don't need a resolution (Pete flies off to his new LearLife, Roger and Marie live happily ever after), but then all sorts of time gets wasted with Don Draper chasing the least interesting woman in the world for...what reason exactly? Even if its purpose was to get Don to just drop off the Earth and go on this rambling journey to California, it spent too much time getting there. I mean, I really liked what happened at the VFW party, but it was triggered by that Eeyore woman.
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Jun 25, 2015 02:44
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Data Graham posted:Occam's Razor would suggest all this is just the result of lazy writing by people who can't remember life before POS swipers and for whom saying "the title is in the glove box" is just a convenient way to have him shed trappings of himself without much thought. You forget that wire transfers have been a thing for a long time. All he had to do was call his bank and have them wire transfer the money to a bank he was at.
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Jul 3, 2015 02:20
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Does anyone know how many times Bobby's actor was changed? I remember it being like three or four times around season 5.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:50
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Four, according to Wikipedia. I think the first one was only in a couple of episodes: quote:Robert "Bobby" Draper (Maxwell Huckabee in season 1; Aaron Hart in seasons 1 and 2; Jared S. Gilmore in seasons 3 and 4; and Mason Vale Cotton in seasons 5, 6 and 7) The original was the cutest.
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Jul 3, 2015 18:57
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"Mason Vale Cotton" sounds like a spree killer and/or someone who assassinated a president.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:13
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netally posted:The original was the cutest. Thanks. It always bothers me in live action stuff when actors get replaced. It's a little better with bobby since he's growing up through the show and some change is expected, but it still annoys me a little.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:15
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Huh, I watched the entire series over the course of a month and only noticed him change once.
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Jul 3, 2015 19:21
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Don't they do a flashback/deleted scene to Megan and Don driving home from Disneyland that has an older actor for Bobby in it?
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Jul 3, 2015 19:36
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Bobby's sole character trait was being weird about food
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Jul 3, 2015 20:26
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Capntastic posted:Bobby's sole character trait was being weird about food And calling his extremely sensitive, overweight mother ugly when she tried a new look to boost her confidence.  e: A few short years before she died of cancer.
stev fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Jul 3, 2015 |
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Jul 3, 2015 20:45
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And he traded her sandwich. Imagine the guilt when she's dead. It's all your fault Bobby Draper!
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Jul 3, 2015 21:04
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I just realized that Don stole Peggy's dream like he stole Rizzo's. This probably should've occurred to me earlier.
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Jul 6, 2015 10:49
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Sash! posted:I'd agree with the last half season being the roughest. You knew the end was coming and you're expecting things to either get wrapped up (McCann buying them out, Don and Megan split up) or start setting up storylines that don't need a resolution (Pete flies off to his new LearLife, Roger and Marie live happily ever after), but then all sorts of time gets wasted with Don Draper chasing the least interesting woman in the world for...what reason exactly? She was only in about two episodes, and there was a bit of content related to her in two more episodes, I think. This isn't really a huge amount of time. None of Don's lovers have been interesting since Season 1, anyway. As for the way the show wrapped up, it was never going to have a heavily serialized last seven episodes like Breaking Bad or something, the structure of the show was always 'tell short stories in each episode', which they continued to do. That tends to involve introducing new characters. Kelly posted:I would actually consider the back half of this season to be "bad" though obviously it's still better than most of what's on TV. I thought the first half of the season was a lot worse than the second half. There was a really boring inevitability to it, since it felt after the S6 finale that Don's marriage was already over, and you knew Don would end up back at the firm. Pedro De Heredia fucked around with this message at 11:10 on Jul 6, 2015 |
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Jul 6, 2015 11:04
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Aw, yeah. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZK3rPTAiP8 Trudy's face.
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Jul 6, 2015 18:04
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so like, Jon Hamm won an award or something
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Sep 21, 2015 20:32
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Cruel and Unusual posted:Aw, yeah. I just realized that they are referencing the event that the Red Wedding is based on.
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Sep 21, 2015 23:33
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Max posted:I just realized that they are referencing the event that the Red Wedding is based on. THE KING ORDERED IT!
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Sep 21, 2015 23:37
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So following a couple newcomers in the thread for The 100 posting as they're catching up a series, I thought I would do likewise here for Mad Men. I only ever watched the first episode when it was new, thought it was wholly boring and never went back. But it is cold and since there are seven seasons, I figured I'd give it another shot. Having viewed that first episode again, it is still well boring. Though it was eclipsed by the S03E12 which was 80% people sitting on the couch watching the Kennedy assassination coverage. That was about the laziest TV show I've ever seen, but I'll soldier on since the one just before it was when Betty confronted Don/Dick and that's about as good as TV can be. I think the visuals in this show are amazing. There is huge attention to detail that has me looking through the background for retro stuff like the Lux soap that is so often by the Drapers' sink. That's cool, and the show really hits the costuming ball way out of the park. It captures the 60's aesthetic for the glorious gaudiness that it is. Thematically it seem en pointe as well; the rise of television, rampant workplace sexism, little hints of the 60's counterculture popping in here and there. That's neat, and especially so since they not just parading out The Beatles et al. to show that the show is indeed set in that decade. It is mostly about the parents of the people we normally associate with then, essentially the generation of our grandparents as they raise the baby boomers. And while all that's fresh and interesting, the characters are generally awful. I mean, they are awful people, not that they are poorly written because they are about the most fleshed-out degenerates I've seen. I didn't really think there was a need to have two rapists, but oh well! Pete at least gets some good lines and a thrilling dance number. I see it as good news that Dr. Rapesmore (Glen? Gary? Greg? don't care!) is heading to the army because maybe he'll die and we won't have to see him anymore. Don/Dick is the very definition of an unlikeable sack of poo poo, and pretty much everyone other than Peggy would have probably been better of without him being around. At least Betty seems to be realizing that and Peggy seems to be using him just for his admittedly good handle on the advertising profession. I think the writers were trying to make him a bit sympathetic with his rough childhood and taking care of Mrs. Draper the First, but I'm not buying it. I think they were going for a non-sarcastic Gregory House but wound up with a non-violent Richard Kuklinski. That's an achievement of sorts, but I don't think it to be a good thing when he's the protagonist. So I head boldly into the season three finale. I'd like to see Sal comes back because his dismissal was stupid as hell, I hope there is nothing as weak as deus ex lawnmowerina being used to preserve the status quo ever again, and maybe Henry gets Joan to come back to work in his department because they're both pretty decent and that seemed a good avenue of growth for Joan. Something has to happen with her anyway as the housewife thing seems to be slipping away rather quickly. Maybe she'll start a polka band.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:15
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You should really continue your posts as you power through this show. And then read them again when you finish.
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Jan 29, 2016 21:33
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i think the second half of season seven just got added to Netflix, and yeah please keep posting your impressions!
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Jan 29, 2016 21:35
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If you love the costuming read http://tomandlorenzo.com/tag/mad-men/ Mad Style and and the Mad Men recaps by Tom and Lorenzo as you go. Also if you go back and read Alan Sepinwall's analysis of each episode they are illuminating.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:34
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What the hell happened to Sal anyway. Surely there was some kind of behind the scenes thing.
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Feb 1, 2016 00:50
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General Battuta posted:What the hell happened to Sal anyway. Surely there was some kind of behind the scenes thing. There was a good article about this. The actor who played Sal was pretty much retired to New Orleans when he got cast and did it for his first contract. He got offers to come back afterwards but didn't want too.
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Feb 1, 2016 03:16
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Head canon says after being fired from S&C, he used his impressive resume as a commercial director and contacts in the industry to secure freelance jobs, eventually moving to LA to direct TV shows. He invented the sitcom that featured the dim but well meaning husband who just wants to watch TV and hang out with his dude friends, while his wife wants him to spend time with her and the kids and fix the roof. Sadly, he died of aids in the early 80s. EDIT: The only character it felt like the show ended on an pessimistic note for was Sally. She was shown taking Betty's role as the runner of the house, showing that she was to sacrifice her dreams for her family. Though I like to think after Betty died, she and the boys move back with Don in NYC, and his new found balance in his life he's found, helps him become the father they needed. Which enables Sally to get on with her life. Stan is the first person to use a Nagel in advertising. twistedmentat fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Feb 1, 2016 |
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Feb 1, 2016 08:34
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So the weekend allowed me to finish off that last episode of season three, also all of season four and much more than I had realized of season five. I worked a lot of overtime last week so I was content to just lazy about and watch TV. I see The Beatles finally made their appearance, strange that they had knock off music for one of the credit scenes and then licensed a track for another. Stones was a thing too. Inevitable really, odd that they didn't go for the low hanging fruit of The Ed Sullivan appearance considering how often they like to cram in other important events to give scale of when things were. Hey look! Grusome shots of the Richard Speck murder to tell everyone who cares to look it up that this is mid-summer 1966! I'm not sure if I like this or not. It works for the viewer, sure, but seems a bit hamfisted sometimes. I really liked the end of season three, the maneuvering to distance themselves from Sterling Cooper to become Sterling Cooper Draper and Price, but the gap between S3 and S4 really left out some interesting stuff. In the finale someone says something to the effect of it being a long time before they have a lobby with names in it. Then the next episode they have a lobby with their names in it. I suppose watching it on the broadcast schedule it gave enough real time between the episodes that it didn't feel weird to have skipped into the future, but my Netflix binge had me thinking I might have missed a few episodes or a webseries or something. It's no great surprise that they make it (or at least faking it until they do) but it would have been nice to see them grit it out a little bit more than two minutes in a hotel room. Apparently Don became a bit stupid between seasons though as he clearly had no concept of the power of earned media. The canned ham thing was a bit out there I guess, but to be uncooperative for a fluff piece? What? He seemed to get it together for the second interview, then totally forgot about it being a thing when he paid for a full page ad for his no tobacco Op-Ed. And as if the New York Times just happened to have an entire blank page available at press time. For something that's generally been better rooted in reality, these things are getting contrived and it's hurting the series a bit. He's also becoming much more brazen about how much of a prick he is when he straight up abandons the rival Sno-Cone idea in a taxi. Were or are there people out there that actually idolize Don in some way? Why? I struggle to find really anything nice to say about the man. I guess he got to the point at least three times where he could have started beating his wife and didn't, but when that's topping the list of pros on the balance sheet, that's a tremendous problem. He barely even smiles out of happiness. Dick is a nice person though. I consider them to be pretty much two separate people because really they are. They are separated by an entire continent and Don is a polite rear end in a top hat cranked to 11 while Dick is a generally mellow and decent dude. Desertion and identity fraud not withstanding. I don't think Don ever did anything altruistic while Dick actively makes a woman with cancer enjoy life a little bit more. And doesn't tell her about her impending demise. Maybe it's some sort of Jungian thing going on, which really was driven home in a way earlier episode that ended with essentially the reverse image of the man in a suit on a chesterfield image from the credits. It was when he wigged out and spend that first couple of weeks in California, season two I think? The show is still really good, but is weakening. Still beats the hell out of Under the Dome which I am trying to get through. That's drat painful. Part of the weakening here might have to do with the bloated cast. It leaves some characters with very little to do, but they were so important before that they can't really be written out either. Betty is the prime example. Since divorcing Don, she put on some weight and got mad at Sally for cutting her hair. By nature of me watching this after it is finished, I know the big thing at the end that is still to come, but holy poo poo, I do not care how many more Weight Watcher's meetings she goes to between then and now. Ken Cosgrove too. Did he really need to come back? He's not done much of anything. The new art guy Michael Ginsberg, has more going on. The insurance agent's wife has more stuff going on. Ken seems to be there just so Pete doesn't have to be in so many scenes. The scenes surrounding the death of the old secretary were gold though. That seemed like an unused (or perhaps oft-used) routine out of a sitcom. I totally could have seen that at home in Frasier or MASH. Actually, I'm pretty certain it was in MASH. Doesn't matter, it was really good physical humour without being out-of-place slapstick.
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Feb 1, 2016 21:13
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Antifreeze Head posted:Hey look! Grusome shots of the Richard Speck murder to tell everyone who cares to look it up that this is mid-summer 1966! I'm not sure if I like this or not. It works for the viewer, sure, but seems a bit hamfisted sometimes. Perhaps, but I'll give them a pass because it was so important to the theme of the episode. Antifreeze Head posted:It's no great surprise that they make it (or at least faking it until they do) but it would have been nice to see them grit it out a little bit more than two minutes in a hotel room. Agreed, I would have liked to see a little more of that progression. Antifreeze Head posted:He's also becoming much more brazen about how much of a prick he is when he straight up abandons the rival Sno-Cone idea in a taxi. Brazen, or just desperate? Antifreeze Head posted:Dick is a nice person though. I consider them to be pretty much two separate people because really they are. You might like how they resolve this in the last season. Betty makes sense in the end, too. I think her character suffered the most from the extra season added right before the end: Wiener had good ideas for her beginnings and endings, but wasn't quite sure how to stretch her story out in the middle.
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Feb 1, 2016 22:53
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Antifreeze Head posted:Were or are there people out there that actually idolize Don in some way? Why? Yes, I used to know one. We no longer have any friends in common, which I say having only lost him as a friend. I seem to recall that he thought the mens' rights movement had some legitimate points. He also studied The Game.
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Feb 2, 2016 00:40
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Propaganda Machine posted:Yes, I used to know one. We no longer have any friends in common, which I say having only lost him as a friend. I seem to recall that he thought the mens' rights movement had some legitimate points. He also studied The Game. I just assume those people watched the first couple seasons and stopped. Because if you don't care about the fact he's a selfish douchebag, being Don Draper seems glamorous early on in a "suburban ennui" American Beauty kind of way. But even if you don't care about the infidelity and emotional abuse, late-seasons Don is simply pitiful. Even as a symbol of nonchalant white male privilege, he's also so clearly broken that I can't imagine it being a fun vicarious experience for PUA-types. Seasons 4 and 6/7 in particular are like a horror show of Don's lovely alcoholic decisions. Whatever nice things he gains are utterly dismantled...it's like watching a trash fire. He's nobody's James Bond, is what I mean. The character's obvious flaws make him a terrible conduit for some kind of male empowerment fantasy.
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Feb 2, 2016 02:23
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Don can be admired on 2 levels, in that when he's on, he's on and loving cool as hell. The other being you can see your own flaws in him and empathize. As much as Don regresses and makes horrible, backfalling decisions, one constant about the character is he always wants to better himself and become a better person. He often comes up short, as do many of us.
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Feb 2, 2016 05:17
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Xealot posted:I just assume those people watched the first couple seasons and stopped. Because if you don't care about the fact he's a selfish douchebag, being Don Draper seems glamorous early on in a "suburban ennui" American Beauty kind of way. Outside of the Making a Murderer thread, goons are generally reasonable people, so between this thread, Sepinwall reviews, and Mad Style, we're all privy to a nuanced interpretation of the show and see Don Draper as something of an rear end in a top hat, but also conflicted with occasional glimpses of hope. To an MRA, he's the Ideal Man and a consummate victim to the evil forces around him. His creative ideas are too brave and bold, so he gets shut down. His bitch wives are so childish and controlling, he really has no choice but to be a philanderer in order to allow the expression of his passion and vitality. It's Rachel Menkin's own loving fault that she ultimately rejected him and ended up dead and forgotten with a milquetoast epilogue. It's a tragic flaw of his that he continues to support people like his old bohemian girlfriend as his success builds and they prove their weaknesses.His later sad-sack alcoholic years are the direct result of being beaten down, subjecting himself to the foolish notion that he should be paying attention to the women around him (basically, it's all Megan's fault). If Don Draper is a tragic figure, it's because he was Fighting the Good Fight against the world of constant castration surrounding him. He's not the pussy everybody wants him to be and, in the end, after letting his cock hang loose road-tripping away from his society-induced-and-unnatural responsibilities and test-driving hot rods across the desert, he uses meditation to get back in touch with himself, the Ideal Man, to make the best ad campaign of all time. Now that I think of it, it's kind of Objectivist. Huh. Gross. I am very glad that this thread has been free of that terrible, awful opinion, but there exist assholes in the world who would agree with it. (spoiler tags are finale-related. I'm of the opinion that if there's somebody watching for the first time within the last page or two, don't be an rear end in a top hat)
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Feb 2, 2016 06:00
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Propaganda Machine posted:It's a tragic flaw of his that he continues to support people like his old bohemian girlfriend as his success builds and they prove their weaknesses. His later sad-sack alcoholic years are the direct result of being beaten down, subjecting himself to the foolish notion that he should be paying attention to the women around him... Yeah, I can see someone having such a reading. It's terrible, but I can kind of see it. Ironically, Bert Cooper kind of views him that way at first...he literally recommends Atlas Shrugged to him, as I recall. Before Don starts self-destructing and Bert grows tired of his poo poo, I mean.
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Feb 2, 2016 06:27
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Astroman posted:Don can be admired on 2 levels, in that when he's on, he's on and loving cool as hell. The other being you can see your own flaws in him and empathize. I think Pete is quite important in this context: he basically behaves like Roger and Don, only when he does it he isn't surrounded by coding that tells us "this is cool and good", so we see him as a creep, a drunk and a rapist. Pete's tragedy is that he is sufficiently self-aware that he knows this.
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Feb 2, 2016 08:15
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While I don't think Don is an admirable character, it's not very surprising that people might find him to be one. He is an extremely handsome (goes a long way), intelligent, professionally successful man who is often shown to be trying to 'do the right thing', and his vices and manifestations of his problems (drinking, womanizing) are seen as 'cool' in society. When the show portrays him in a particularly negative light, they quickly portray him in a more positive light afterwards. His wives never leave him for his womanizing and he always manages to patch things up with people who hate him (and those who he can't patch things up with aren't in the show anymore). There is definitely a certain romantizing of Don's problems.
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Feb 2, 2016 08:32
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Xealot posted:Yeah, I can see someone having such a reading. It's terrible, but I can kind of see it. That's an hilarious observation. I don't want to give Weiner so much credit as to have seen that reading coming, but it actually makes it hilarious since Bert is so...erm, affected. Who ever knew that by the end of the show, we would kind of love Bert most? He's like the racist grandpa who taught you how to speak Japanese and weld and fish.
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Feb 2, 2016 08:51
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I'm probably stretching a bit here, but I kind of think of early season Don paralleling JFK a bit, where Don's a drunk, JFK's a drug addict and they're both massive womanizers, but the mystique around being a glamorous person in the early 60's conceals how gross it is. As the 60's go on and a more modern cynicism takes hold, you see the character of Don demystified and a lot of the charm just isn't there anymore to make up for his shortcomings.
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Feb 2, 2016 16:11
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Saw that episode where Kinsey reappears yesterday. If anyone is keeping a list of worst episodes, this one gets my nomination. I thought his storyline wrapped up really well with him realizing that he wasn't as good as he hoped he was in the season three finale. But then he came back to tick off two boxes on the "Things we have to mention in the 1960's" checklist. Yarg. Followed it with the one where they finally get an automobile account in about as greasy a way as could be possible. That was a solid way to bounce back and stuff is happening again, so I'll just forget about the Negrons and Kinsey and Lakshmi as I assume all of you have. Propaganda Machine posted:(spoiler tags are finale-related. I'm of the opinion that if there's somebody watching for the first time within the last page or two, don't be an rear end in a top hat) As that newcomer, I appreciate this but I also realize that I am late to the party so nobody should feel they need to spoiler anything. For me it is about the about the journey more than the destination. Lots of it has been spoiled for me in a sense anyway, like I know that Peggy left but is also coming back somehow because I've also seen promotional materials and the show's IMDB page.
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Feb 2, 2016 16:41
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Nude Bog Lurker posted:I think Pete is quite important in this context: he basically behaves like Roger and Don, only when he does it he isn't surrounded by coding that tells us "this is cool and good", so we see him as a creep, a drunk and a rapist. Pete's tragedy is that he is sufficiently self-aware that he knows this. And the best thing about Pete was when he finally stopped trying and just accepted who he was, what he wanted in life, and how important his family was, he had the most self actualized and happy ending.
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Feb 3, 2016 00:28
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Antifreeze Head posted:Saw that episode where Kinsey reappears yesterday. If anyone is keeping a list of worst episodes, this one gets my nomination. I thought his storyline wrapped up really well with him realizing that he wasn't as good as he hoped he was in the season three finale. But then he came back to tick off two boxes on the "Things we have to mention in the 1960's" checklist. Yarg. Ooooh, and you haven't even mentioned the fun spoilers. You're in for some good stuff! I love it when newbies catch up on shows like this; it's like seeing it for the first time all over again 
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Feb 3, 2016 02:22
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- Look, I've been revising my will. And with Margareth..lost, I'm dividing most of my estate between Ellary and ... (points to Kevin, Joan's son) - Roger... - I know you don't want it, but it's for him. And I don't want to put you in an awkward position when some man you used to work with leaves your son a small fortune. The good doctor for example. - Greg had twins with some nurse. As for as he is concerned, Kevin never happened. - So he knows? - No. He is just a terrible person.
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Mar 9, 2016 22:39
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EDIT: Sorry, wrong thread.
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Apr 12, 2016 15:02
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