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I had a very negative opinion on rape, but that was mostly as the rapee, I've heard it's actually quite a better time as the rapist, so I've decided to hold off on judging rape so harshly until I've gotten the full picture
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Apr 8, 2015 16:28
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In accusations of rape, the benefit of the doubt does and should go to the accused
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Apr 8, 2015 18:14
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Obdicut posted:What about in accusations of making a false charge of rape? In the social accusations of rape there's no rule of who should get the benefit of the doubt. Obviously you have no reason to doubt your friend saying that she was raped just like I have no reason to doubt my friend Mark who says he didn't rape her.
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Apr 8, 2015 18:37
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Obdicut posted:Yes, thank you for agreeing that in accusations of rape, the benefit of the doubt shouldn't always go to the accused. I was referring to the legal prosecution of rape. quote:The only way this is ever true is in the specific case that, if the person is on trial, the prosecution has to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that they were the rapist. This specific case is literally every single court trial of rape
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Apr 8, 2015 18:57
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Obdicut posted:The orthodox answer is that, given that rape is he-said-she-said, that making accusations of rape opens up women to lots of attack and abuse, and that you gain nothing by it, that these represent mostly actual rapes where there isn't enough evidence, or the woman doesn't want to go through the gruelling trial and being called a liar and having her sexual history used against her. How do you conclude that in a majority of these undecided cases the rape actually occured? What you outlined is true and does certainly happen, but how can we accurately tell at what rate this happens?
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Apr 8, 2015 19:25
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Gotta love the "I'm right, look it up" old school D&D defense
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Apr 8, 2015 19:42
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Obdicut posted:This is not true. It is not a nicer way of saying "We assume the allegations are false". There is no assumption made, either of guilt or innocence. Evidence is prevented, and a jury makes a decision on the points of fact, guided by a judge in points of law. At no point are they instructed to begin from an assumption that the allegations are false. There's technically no assumption made because until the judge bangs his gavel, he's innocent. Full stop. As every jury is instructed, the defendant is an innocent man unless the prosecution proves to the jury he committed the crime.
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Apr 8, 2015 20:29
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PerpetualSelf posted:You know false rape stories keep hitting the front page of reddit like they are big issues. I'm really worried as to who may be pushing the stories. There's obviously some kind of raiding/brigading going on and it's pretty frightening. I'm really worried it's political operatives instead of just creep red pillers or women haters. Im genuinely curious about whose political agenda you think is trying to push those stories
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Apr 11, 2015 14:34
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SedanChair posted:Gosh it seems that a whole conversation on the nature of consent, intent and controlling your public image after disclosures of one's private life has taken place. Remind me what a bad job the artist did here? As a provocation to spark discussion on those topics the piece is fine, but as any sort of artistic statement on said topics it's pretty poor.
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Jun 8, 2015 17:20
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mlmp08 posted:Now I'm imagining a world with the rule that you can't say someone raped you if you cannot prove it under penalty of confinement. You can tell them to get hosed or tell them 'you know what you did' or 10000 other things instead of sitting silently
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Jun 9, 2015 21:49
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Obdicut posted:Do you understand that it is nearly impossible to prosecute a non-violent rape if it is just he-said-she-said? You seem to keep having this fantasy that rape is provable; it is usually not. Most rapists would not be found guilty. Even if we fixed the massive bias against rape victims in the police and judicial system, we require evidence beyond reasonable doubt and simply one person's testimony versus another does not rise to that. So should the system itself be changed? Or should rape be prosecuted in a way different from other crimes?
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Jun 10, 2015 15:23
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Obdicut posted:No, it shouldn't. Or at least, I can't think of any way of changing it that would help. The police and judicial system need to address their current disbelief in rape victims, but other than that, unfortunately, this just a flaw in reality. We do need to change rape culture. Ah, gotcha. Agreed
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Jun 10, 2015 15:42
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