World of Darkness Megathread: Curse of the Were-Poster

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Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Yeah, Vampires have a bunch of historical stuff to fall back on (Rome, 80s, that proto-Dark Eras book) and Hunters are probably the easiest splat to port over into whatever you're doing at the time.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 15:37

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# ? Apr 25, 2024 10:38

Kellsterik: Mar 30, 2012

Pope Guilty posted:

CJ: (in a pseudo street-rap staccato)
They call me CJ, and it was 50 years back
a bitch named Mikki took my blood and gave it back
I thought I was sick, I felt so queasy and green,
I felt myself hooked on something I never seen

# ? Apr 10, 2015 15:58

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Crion posted:

I think it's probably more important (or at least more interesting) to give the under-served, underplayed games more materials in exercises like this to try and entice people to try them out. And honestly, there's so much Vampire material out there you can already basically set a game when or wherever you want, so long as you're willing to do the reading on the time period and place in question.

I agree, at least for Promethean. Geist though *holds nose, comically waves hand in front of face*

# ? Apr 10, 2015 16:04

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Yawgmoth posted:

That's certainly the complete dismissal of valid concerns without actually reading a word of said concern that I've come to expect out of you. But since I have time to post at work, I'll tl;dr it for you: the problem isn't that the topic is explored, it's how that exploration is presented. Specifically, a book titled "sexmurder" with zero other context (because it's a book cover) is, if nothing else, in extremely poor taste.

it's actually a goon having a hilarious meltdown over nothing

# ? Apr 10, 2015 16:05

Gravitas Shortfall: Jul 17, 2007; Utility is seven-eighths Proximity.

Clanbook: Gangrel posted:

CJ: (in a pseudo street-rap staccato)
They call me CJ, and it was 50 years back
a bitch named Mikki took my blood and gave it back
I thought I was sick, I felt so queasy and green,
I felt myself hooked on something I never seen

Behold, the whitest thing ever written.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 16:11

Dave Brookshaw: Jun 27, 2012; No Regrets

Tezzor posted:

it's actually a goon having a hilarious meltdown over nothing

It's a full-page rant about a book's internal development codename, not even anyhing that made it into print.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 16:38

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Gravitas Shortfall posted:

Behold, the whitest thing ever written.

...until you see the Bone Gnawers one.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 17:23

kaynorr: Dec 31, 2003

MalcolmSheppard posted:

I admit I'm pretty dismissive of concerns about violence from the person cited in the intro post, because he later wished I would for-real die. But in the interests of moving forward, given that for good reasons and bad it *is* tricky, how would the folks here go about handing the disturbing things about Vampire? Because previous discussions have ended with assertions that it's all going to be stupid and RPGs are an inherently untrustworthy medium.

I think that it can all be summed up in trying to bridge the gap between My Gamers and All Gamers. My Gamers might be cool people I've played with for years if not decades, mature adults who can handle the more transgressive and morally grey parts of the game, and can openly communicate about boundaries and tastes without anyone getting pissy or ending friendships. All Gamers are a immature, hate-infested cesspool of (mostly) manchildren who cannot handle the presence of the opposite gender at the gaming table in an entirely nonsexual context, let alone the more complicated issues of intimacy and violation that go along with the vampire mythos.

The optimist in me says that if CWoD and (to a lesser extent) NWod are your cup of tea, then learn to play to the maturity level they require and find a gaming group that meets that bar. Note that in many, if not most, cases this means you aren't going to play Vampire the way you (or its creators) meant it to be played because you can't get a group together that's all on the same page. If you can, count your blessings and godspeed. Otherwise, once it becomes apparent what kind of people you're gaming with you might want to downshift to something at the level of maturity everyone can bring to the table. And this is the OPTIMISTIC point of view.

The pessimistic one is that ultimately the artistic experiment of the World of Darkness is a failure. What was intended to elevate and expand the hobby was immediately misinterpreted and mishandled as soon as it came into contact with the majority immature children that make it up. RPGs cannot handle mature or disturbing things because the ability to handle that kind of subject matter is lacking in the vast majority of people who play RPGs. Whatever people it attracted from outside the hobby have left, or were never enough to drown out the voices that turned it into superheroes in trenchcoats.

As is obvious, I bounce back and forth between these two interpretations pretty frequently. And I say this as someone that read Wraith 2nd Edition way back in the late nineties and thought, "What a fantastic game. I would love to play or run this. I'll never be able to assemble a group that can." Which, as a product meant to be used and not just read, is a somewhat depressing thought.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 17:36

Ferrinus: Jun 19, 2003; i'm finding this quite easy, i guess in part because i'm a fast type but also because i have a coherent mental model of the world

It's really not tenable to gauge a game's success based on whether Those People have the right feelings about it. Roleplaying gamers aren't uniquely horrible and it's not on Vampire to morally uplift them.

I thought Etherwind's "rant" was a pretty cool story about the roleplaying society he's in and an extremely subdued and reasonable reaction to the actual working title "sexmurder." Like, look at the actual portions of the essay wherein he talks about it, rather than just marking the post's length and making up for yourself what it actually says. That guy could be really goofy and tonally off, but he wasn't in that post.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 17:57

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Ferrinus posted:

It's really not tenable to gauge a game's success based on whether Those People have the right feelings about it. Roleplaying gamers aren't uniquely horrible and it's not on Vampire to morally uplift them.

I thought Etherwind's "rant" was a pretty cool story about the roleplaying society he's in and an extremely subdued and reasonable reaction to the actual working title "sexmurder." Like, look at the actual portions of the essay wherein he talks about it, rather than just marking the post's length and making up for yourself what it actually says. That guy could be really goofy and tonally off, but he wasn't in that post.

It's really cool that he mentioned people dismissing it as unimportant and overreacting, and- lo, it is dismissed.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 18:18

MalcolmSheppard: Jun 24, 2012; MATTHEW 7:20

Effectronica posted:

It's really cool that he mentioned people dismissing it as unimportant and overreacting, and- lo, it is dismissed.

I'm not dismissing it. I'm accusing it of being an exercise in bad faith. There's a difference.

I mean we can play this a number of ways. For example, let's take a look at the reference to "dick-ripping lesbian feminists" in this thread. That's about the Black Furies, right? An all-women faction? Do you not think that this kind of hyperbole is discriminatory poo poo designed to punish folks for daring to explicitly design a faction for women? Because it's not the first time. I've read the same thing about the Sisters of Hippolyta in Mage, and if I were to take this in equivalent bad faith it'd be fair to read it as concern trolling designed to disguise some lovely biases. Log in your eye, eh?

But maybe we can stop exercising bad faith, eh?

# ? Apr 10, 2015 19:33

MalcolmSheppard: Jun 24, 2012; MATTHEW 7:20

In any event, if we assume the worst anyway, the argument about whether CWoD is better or worse than NWoD is an argument about whether clumsy stereotyping is better or worse than erasure.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 19:38

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

On the other hand, the least charitable definition of any given WtA faction is almost definitely the most accurate one given *gestures to everything about the entire product line from start to finish*.
Unless you want to split hairs about the spiritually-incapable-of-keeping-money-on-hand homeless werewolves with a gift for eating actual literal garbage or the named-for-cannibal-spirit group whose savagery is matched only by their nobility, and how that's just grossly oversimplifying the deep and well-considered lore that all the tribes secretly have. Or maybe in their tribebooks, like the Children of Gaia one.

e: If it's erasing magical blood power Gypsies and the mysterious vampires of the Hidden Orient with completely different cosmological underpinnings then yes, erase away holy poo poo

# ? Apr 10, 2015 19:42

Gerund: Sep 12, 2007; He push a man

Dave Brookshaw posted:

It's a full-page rant about a book's internal development codename, not even anyhing that made it into print.

Onyx Path publicly advertised the name "sexmurder" in customer-facing branding for a long time before print. The rant itself existed before you ever brought it to print. Until nearly the print was made, the product was to all consumers known as sexmurder.

It was a wildly botched roll-out on Onyx Path's part, and the act itself has zero defenders and a whole lot of revisionist retellings to frame it as less-lovely, as quoted above. To be totally dismissive of the misstep is showing a lack of correction to the mindset of Onyx Path as producers.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 19:44

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Excuse me, I misspoke. Blood purity power Gypsies.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 19:46

tatankatonk: Nov 4, 2011; Pitching is the art of instilling fear.

Pope Guilty posted:

Wow, I got my hands on a copy of the original Clanbook Gangrel and drat but they used to be The Gypsy Clan (also gently caress the Ravnos). Also:
Clanbook: Gangrel posted:
CJ: (in a pseudo street-rap staccato)
They call me CJ, and it was 50 years back
a bitch named Mikki took my blood and gave it back
I thought I was sick, I felt so queasy and green,
I felt myself hooked on something I never seen

This is the good poo poo.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 19:54

MalcolmSheppard: Jun 24, 2012; MATTHEW 7:20

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

On the other hand, the least charitable definition of any given WtA faction is almost definitely the most accurate one given *gestures to everything about the entire product line from start to finish*.
Unless you want to split hairs about the spiritually-incapable-of-keeping-money-on-hand homeless werewolves with a gift for eating actual literal garbage or the named-for-cannibal-spirit group whose savagery is matched only by their nobility, and how that's just grossly oversimplifying the deep and well-considered lore that all the tribes secretly have. Or maybe in their tribebooks, like the Children of Gaia one.

Can't see one of the reviews. The other one just gives it a "meh."

Meanwhile, Black Furies got:

quote:

And on that note, that�s Tribebook: Black Furies! Final verdict? I liked it. The history section is useless, but the other chapters have cool, evocative material. Usually the last chapter is the weakest in a White Wolf splatbook, but this one really stands on its own. There are epic plot hooks to sink into, and the Furies certainly feel more necessary than their core entry makes them out to be. They're not just feminists; they have an active role in human society in judging crimes, more so than the other tribes, and they have a devotion to mysticism that rivals the Uktena. They feel fully realized. If we�re going to judge the book on whether it makes Black Furies more playable or interesting to enact, I�d argue that this one does. It�s certainly not the best Werewolf has to offer, but it�s decent, and it could have been a lot worse than that. But next time, we�re going to look at a book beyond decent.

Yeah, that sure looks like a cavalcade of awful as any right-thinking person should believe, right?

quote:

e: If it's erasing magical blood power Gypsies and the mysterious vampires of the Hidden Orient with completely different cosmological underpinnings then yes, erase away holy poo poo

Sure, Gypsies was bad. It's why the company actively ignored it. On the other hand, the idea that it would be less racist to say that Asian vampires come from the Bible but are too dumb to remember (which is the other option in CWoD) is worth a laugh.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:01

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

MalcolmSheppard posted:

I'm not dismissing it. I'm accusing it of being an exercise in bad faith. There's a difference.

I mean we can play this a number of ways. For example, let's take a look at the reference to "dick-ripping lesbian feminists" in this thread. That's about the Black Furies, right? An all-women faction? Do you not think that this kind of hyperbole is discriminatory poo poo designed to punish folks for daring to explicitly design a faction for women? Because it's not the first time. I've read the same thing about the Sisters of Hippolyta in Mage, and if I were to take this in equivalent bad faith it'd be fair to read it as concern trolling designed to disguise some lovely biases. Log in your eye, eh?

But maybe we can stop exercising bad faith, eh?

Calm down, I wasn't addressing you. But the argument that you're proposing is pretty funny if you want it to be equivalent to Etherwind's argument, which condenses down to "because our society conceives of sex and violence differently when it comes to men and women, 'sexmurder' has a different connotation for men and for women, generally" and "minor infractions, issues, etc. can have a gigantic effect because of the way in which they create the climate people operate under". I don't see anywhere where he says anything about anyone's motives in using it.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:02

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

MalcolmSheppard posted:

Can't see one of the reviews. The other one just gives it a "meh."

Meanwhile, Black Furies got:

Yeah, that sure looks like a cavalcade of awful as any right-thinking person should believe, right?

Sure, Gypsies was bad. It's why the company actively ignored it. On the other hand, the idea that it would be less racist to say that Asian vampires come from the Bible but are too dumb to remember (which is the other option in CWoD) is worth a laugh.

I'm glad you found the good book to match the other bad book, because that completely validates your argument and renders mine moot.

And no, what's worth a laugh is the having-cake-and-eating-it-too idea that the owod cosmology has anything resembling internal consistency and that it's planned for reasons of inclusivity and not left-hand-doesn't-talk-to-right-hand kitchen sink planning that tries to backsolve itself into coherence when people try to wrap up the product lines and sprawl the metaplot. Unless you completely ignore that Judeo-Christianity informs the very first and foundational product line for the entire company, and also Demon: The Fallen, the game of playing fallen demons from the Christian Bible cast out of Paradise alongside Lucifer and that within it attempts to offer an explanation for all the creation myths of all the product lines being correct because of the division of reality caused by the titular Fall.

So yeah. I'd say it's more ok to assume vampires use the same rules everywhere if the entire universe is written in-product as being reconciled together and explained by a Judeo-Christian viewpoint. I mean, it's good enough for the Gaki to still be vampire-vampires and not year-of-anime-vampires. Not that flesh shintai isn't cool and all.

Chernobyl Peace Prize fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Apr 10, 2015

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:17

Tezzor: Jul 29, 2013; Can't post for 3 years!

Gerund posted:

Onyx Path publicly advertised the name "sexmurder" in customer-facing branding for a long time before print. The rant itself existed before you ever brought it to print. Until nearly the print was made, the product was to all consumers known as sexmurder.

why do you care what their developmental name for a roleplaying game was

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:25

Effectronica: May 31, 2011; Fallen Rib

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

I'm glad you found the good book to match the other bad book, because that completely validates your argument and renders mine moot.

And no, what's worth a laugh is the having-cake-and-eating-it-too idea that the owod cosmology has anything resembling internal consistency and that it's planned for reasons of inclusivity and not left-hand-doesn't-talk-to-right-hand kitchen sink planning that tries to backsolve itself into coherence when people try to wrap up the product lines and sprawl the metaplot. Unless you completely ignore that Judeo-Christianity informs the very first and foundational product line for the entire company, and also Demon: The Fallen, the game of playing fallen demons from the Christian Bible cast out of Paradise alongside Lucifer and that within it attempts to offer an explanation for all the creation myths of all the product lines being correct because of the division of reality caused by the titular Fall.

So yeah. I'd say it's more ok to assume vampires use the same rules everywhere if the entire universe is written in-product as being reconciled together and explained by a Judeo-Christian viewpoint. I mean, it's good enough for the Gaki to still be vampire-vampires and not year-of-anime-vampires. Not that flesh shintai isn't cool and all.

Hell, why would it be any more racist to have a consistent cosmology that's Judeo-Christian (hypothetical CWOD without Kuei-~~ren~~jin, etc.) than one based off of Carl Jung (Unknown Armies)? I've never seen anyone say that the idea of the Invisible Clergy was Euro/Anglocentric, only that certain archetypes were.

Tezzor posted:

why do you care what their developmental name for a roleplaying game was

Holy poo poo. A glass house- and this dude's throwing stones from it!

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:26

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

Effectronica posted:

Hell, why would it be any more racist to have a consistent cosmology that's Judeo-Christian (hypothetical CWOD without Kuei-~~ren~~jin) than one based off of Carl Jung (Unknown Armies)? I've never seen anyone say that the idea of the Invisible Clergy was Euro/Anglocentric, only that certain archetypes were.

Also the funniest part of that specific example is that anybody can be Embraced as a Cainite vampire, but explicitly only people from eastern Asia can come back as Kuei-Jin. Cainite vampirism: truly the big tent party.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:33

moths: Aug 25, 2004; I would also still appreciate some danger.

Doesn't that have more to do with culturally/regionally created afterlife models though?

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:41

MalcolmSheppard: Jun 24, 2012; MATTHEW 7:20

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

I'm glad you found the good book to match the other bad book, because that completely validates your argument and renders mine moot.

Given that this was the book about the thing I talked about, instead of what you wanted it to be about, I have no regrets.

quote:

And no, what's worth a laugh is the having-cake-and-eating-it-too idea that the owod cosmology has anything resembling internal consistency and that it's planned for reasons of inclusivity and not left-hand-doesn't-talk-to-right-hand kitchen sink planning that tries to backsolve itself into coherence when people try to wrap up the product lines and sprawl the metaplot. Unless you completely ignore that Judeo-Christianity informs the very first and foundational product line for the entire company, and also Demon: The Fallen, the game of playing fallen demons from the Christian Bible cast out of Paradise alongside Lucifer and that within it attempts to offer an explanation for all the creation myths of all the product lines being correct because of the division of reality caused by the titular Fall.

Well the funny thing is that in this regard, I have first hand knowledge. The Classic WoD isn't innately Judeo-Christian. Game lines had autonomy over matters related to their own setting as long as they did not make overly strong claims about other lines, which the other lines could ignore. Fallen loosened this a bit, but having worked on Ascension I can tell you that as far as we were concerned nothing about Demon mattered unless we wanted it to matter. I nicked a few ideas but that's the extent of it.

quote:

So yeah. I'd say it's more ok to assume vampires use the same rules everywhere if the entire universe is written in-product as being reconciled together and explained by a Judeo-Christian viewpoint. I mean, it's good enough for the Gaki to still be vampire-vampires and not year-of-anime-vampires. Not that flesh shintai isn't cool and all.

So no, your premise is wrong. In any event this would still be bad, because it would make it canonical that a whole group of people are wrong by virtue of where they live. And the Gaki sucked. Now KotE is still wacky in a whole bunch of ways, but the premise that more than one type of being can generate a vampire myth isn't one of them.

(Mostly, KotE was unplayable because it had four fluctuating traits whose comparative values mattered.)

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:43

Kurieg: Jul 19, 2012; RIP Lutri: 5/19/20-4/2/20

MalcolmSheppard posted:

Can't see one of the reviews. The other one just gives it a "meh."

Meanwhile, Black Furies got:

Yeah, that sure looks like a cavalcade of awful as any right-thinking person should believe, right?

Sure, Gypsies was bad. It's why the company actively ignored it. On the other hand, the idea that it would be less racist to say that Asian vampires come from the Bible but are too dumb to remember (which is the other option in CWoD) is worth a laugh.

CoG 1st edition is the one that garnered a "meh", CoG Revised is the one with the all-tribal moot at woodstock '99, the werewolves being attacked by the evil wyrm tainted industrialists at the WTO Conference, the ritual that requires sex in Crinos form, the children of Gaia claiming about 17 different historical figures(including Jesus) as either Children of Gaia or Children of Gaia kinfolk, and the claim that the only reason the other tribes are angry at them is because they're jealous about all the free love and gay sex that they're having. That's just what I can remember off the top of my head.

The First edition Black Furies book paints the tribe in a much more stark light, amongst other things suggesting that they should only take mates from males raised by other Black Furies or their kinfolk because "They know their place" and that the Judeo-christian god is actually a Wyrm Spirit named Patriarchy who was created by men to keep women humble and to teach them that their nakedness was sinful. There's also a canon NPC named "Ball-Biter" who runs with a pack in Sydney killing men because they might be potential rapists.

I'll admit that "Dick Ripping Femnists" may have been a bit too much of a hyperbole but their First Edition portrayal was not good.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:45

MalcolmSheppard: Jun 24, 2012; MATTHEW 7:20

Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Also the funniest part of that specific example is that anybody can be Embraced as a Cainite vampire, but explicitly only people from eastern Asia can come back as Kuei-Jin. Cainite vampirism: truly the big tent party.

Heh. Yeah, this is a classic example of a bad decision made for a good reason--the reason being that tons of people would have played white Wan Xian who got to the right hell by really enjoying Bleach or something.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:45

Mors Rattus: Oct 25, 2007; FATAL & Friends
Walls of Text
#1 Builder
2014-2018

Kuei-jin was a product line with many problems - among them, things like 'complete lack of any in-depth research' and 'someone decided to literally use a random squiggle and claim it was the kanji/hanzi for an element while all the other ones had actual hanzi, if poorly done and somewhat inappropriate ones.'

Oh, and 'your dark, inner self is a white guy who likes the West.'

And of course the name kuei-jin was itself a horrible linguistic bastardization of Chinese and Japanese that is completely absurd, but one might possibly argue that was a feature rather than a bug. Or, at least, I've seen that argued.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:51

Chernobyl Peace Prize: May 7, 2007; Or later, later's fine.
But now would be good.

moths posted:

Doesn't that have more to do with culturally/regionally created afterlife models though?

It's both, but the best part about that is that it's being surface-inclusive while being actual-super-racist. It's a win-win! Because on the one hand you get to say that Asians have two souls, but on the other, you can say that people from Japan and China and Korea and Indonesia and the Philippines and anywhere else are just interchangeable Asian. Which is something that hoooooo boy please say this around anyone's grandparents who grew up in any of those countries and report back.

Honestly Malcolm, I don't mean to single you out for the sins of The World-Spanning Stereotypes of The Great Cosmopolitan Luminaries of Stone Mountain, Georgia. But holy poo poo dude, if you're going to go to bat and advocate for a brand, you have to realize this one (by which I mean owod specifically, and even more specifically vast swaths of material written in the unwashed 90s) is...really, really not-great, a lot of the time, and no amount of personal involvement in its creation or rose-colored nostalgia is going to make it any less stupid or gross.

Chernobyl Peace Prize fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Apr 10, 2015

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:53

Dave Brookshaw: Jun 27, 2012; No Regrets

Gerund posted:

Onyx Path publicly advertised the name "sexmurder" in customer-facing branding for a long time before print. The rant itself existed before you ever brought it to print. Until nearly the print was made, the product was to all consumers known as sexmurder.

It was a wildly botched roll-out on Onyx Path's part, and the act itself has zero defenders and a whole lot of revisionist retellings to frame it as less-lovely, as quoted above. To be totally dismissive of the misstep is showing a lack of correction to the mindset of Onyx Path as producers.

And if you go back to early last thread, you'll see me promising to bring the name up with Rose based on people's reactions to it here. And lo, it was changed, thanks to several writers and Developers disagreeing with the way calling Blood & Smoke that was going.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3504652&userid=187851

I was the very opposite of dismissive of the misstep. I complained about it in the middle of the process of becoming Awakening Developer.

I *am* dismissive of sticking it in the intro to this thread, as though it's anything like a going concern.

# ? Apr 10, 2015 20:58

paradoxGentleman: Dec 10, 2013; wheres the jester, I could do with some pointless nonsense right about now

Speaking of Blood and Smoke (as I have never read a single cWoD book I barely have an idea of what is being talked about) , was anyone else taken aback by reading it the first time? The veey first thing it shows you are the Clans, and the very first clans are the Daevas, who are written in such a way (I distinctly remember the term "communion of the cock and the oval office") that I got an inkling of what you guys mean when you say "going full White Wolf".

# ? Apr 10, 2015 21:11

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

So yeah I'm just going to clip that post cause its p much a flippin apple of discord in this thread and we got enough discord as it is, we don't need any help from a bunch of lame gags from 2+ years ago.

paradoxGentleman posted:

Speaking of Blood and Smoke (as I have never read a single cWoD book I barely have an idea of what is being talked about) , was anyone else taken aback by reading it the first time? The veey first thing it shows you are the Clans, and the very first clans are the Daevas, who are written in such a way (I distinctly remember the term "communion of the cock and the oval office") that I got an inkling of what you guys mean when you say "going full White Wolf".

I don't remember finding anything too weird in it, but I was also bouncing back and forth and came in knowing about Requiem stuff so if something was off it might have just gone over my head.

Edit: VVV VVV

Luminous Obscurity fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Apr 10, 2015

# ? Apr 10, 2015 21:18

Daeren: Aug 18, 2009; YER MUSTACHE IS CROOKED

Listen, it's my two+ year old sassy quote at the top of this thread, and I think that OPP as a whole shouldn't be as demonized as it has been. There's some stupid poo poo in the past, yeah, but Etherwind's rant about an internally controversial branding loses the self-righteous punch when he turns around and gets perma probated for wishing actual, literal death on a dude for having the gall to have different opinions. Make fun of specific aspects, maybe even specific writers if they have an extremely long and proven history like Rein*Hagen or Brucato, but maybe the third post should be cut or replaced by just the bestiality paragraph and Rape of Persephone if it's just going to cause arguments and slapfights.

efb

# ? Apr 10, 2015 21:19

Luminous Obscurity: Jan 10, 2007; "The instrument you know as a piano was once called a pianoforte, because it can play both loud and quiet notes."

Fault corrected. Front page now more White Wolf than ever. :colbert:

# ? Apr 10, 2015 21:21

Yawgmoth: Sep 10, 2003; This post is cursed!

Daeren posted:

Listen, it's my two+ year old sassy quote at the top of this thread, and I think that OPP as a whole shouldn't be as demonized as it has been. There's some stupid poo poo in the past, yeah, but Etherwind's rant about an internally controversial branding loses the self-righteous punch when he turns around and gets perma probated for wishing actual, literal death on a dude for having the gall to have different opinions. Make fun of specific aspects, maybe even specific writers if they have an extremely long and proven history like Rein*Hagen or Brucato, but maybe the third post should be cut or replaced by just the bestiality paragraph and Rape of Persephone if it's just going to cause arguments and slapfights.

efb

Counterpoint: malcolm sheppard is a lovely writer, a lovely poster, & a lovely person and if he weren't credited in WW books he would have been banned long ago.

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

# ? Apr 10, 2015 21:25