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I guess if Changeling is going to be Hunter, it's only fair that Beast is going to be Changeling.
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Apr 13, 2015 02:50
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*Sigh* Remember early nWoD, where fiction was either really creepy mysterious stuff with no explanations (like the original God-Machine thing) or Greg Stolze being great? And then it devolved into grimdark "everyone dies horribly and no one wins and BvD" stuff? And now it's back to oWoD level of terrible? Edit: Why can't we just have more stuff like the Horror Recognition Gudie? That was pretty much the best non-Greg Stolze whitewolf fiction book.
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Apr 13, 2015 03:04
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Ferrinus posted:I guess if Changeling is going to be Hunter, it's only fair that Beast is going to be Changeling. Changeling is going to be Hunter? I'm going to regret asking this aren't I? Edit: Oh right Huntsmen, got it.
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Apr 13, 2015 03:04
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MonsieurChoc posted:*Sigh* Remember early nWoD, where fiction was either really creepy mysterious stuff with no explanations (like the original God-Machine thing) or Greg Stolze being great? And then it devolved into grimdark "everyone dies horribly and no one wins and BvD" stuff? And now it's back to oWoD level of terrible? Time is a flat circle. The grand irony of it is the revived oWoD products don't seem to be falling into the same trap. Perhaps even oChangeling's anniversary edition will be good and free of the cycle! (It won't. They won't do a huge, radical revision like it loving needs, let alone incorporate the more interesting, more complex stuff they could be doing.)
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Apr 13, 2015 03:34
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I feel like this piece of fiction is just one "Nothing personal, kid..." and a katana away from hitting a 10 on the Edge-o-meter.
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Apr 13, 2015 03:46
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Loomer posted:Time is a flat circle. At least we'll always have Wraith, which was probably the most consistenyl high quality line of the Olde Waurlde. Even it'S gmpcs were pretty good (like whatsisface wandering aroudn the world to find this girl he saw once to say sorry he didn't save har).
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Apr 13, 2015 04:01
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SunAndSpring posted:I feel like this piece of fiction is just one "Nothing personal, kid..." and a katana away from hitting a 10 on the Edge-o-meter. Black hoods were the trenchcoats of the aughts. Loomer posted:Time is a flat circle. Tbf most of Lore of the Clans is terrible.
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Apr 13, 2015 04:32
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Hey look what else just got posted
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Apr 13, 2015 04:35
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Marian Apparition (*) Target number of successes: 5 Sacrament: A piece of pure white cloth, stained with a single drop of menstrual blood So, I feel like we talked about this god damnit, white wolf and onyx path
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Apr 13, 2015 04:46
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The mage looks down at his hands, puzzled and dismayed. Across the room, his smirking vampire nemesis pulls his hand out of his pocket, revealing the penknife he was holding onto the entire time.
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Apr 13, 2015 04:53
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pospysyl posted:Tbf most of Lore of the Clans is terrible. goddamnit. I never read the pre-release text since I'd rather wait for the art, etc. What in particular stands out? tatankatonk posted:Marian Apparition (*) Goddamnit.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:09
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Man, White Wolf cares about menstrual blood almost as much as........ the posters in this thread.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:14
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I love Apocalypse though. Anti-Masquerade nuclear option is a pretty great threat from the Covenant most likely to be allied with the Invictus, upholders of the Masquerade.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:20
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Not quite sure why it's a drop of "menstrual blood" instead of "the blood of a virgin," anyhow.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:25
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Which would also be much easier to find. There's the surface value creepy and the creepiness of trying to get it to work at all in the setting, kind of like with Wolf-Bloods in Werewolf 1st Edition.
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Apr 13, 2015 05:29
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I like Apocalypse a lot, too - it's a cool and powerful top-level effect. Meanwhile, I have no idea why Miracle of the Dead Sun exists at all, let alone is castable at three dots. The much lower-key sun-blotting-out ritual from 1E, where you had to actually stand out in the sunlight for a turn or two and got a pall of thick clouds for your trouble, was much cooler. Also, I'm totally for Belial's Brood, or at least hypothetical parts of Belial's Brood, being a bogeyman for the Sanctum in specific as well as the kindred in general. I don't see why Apple of Eden has to provide an experience cost break. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 05:36 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 05:31
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Loomer posted:goddamnit. I never read the pre-release text since I'd rather wait for the art, etc. What in particular stands out? quote:Let’s start with something simple, then: everything I say here is a lie. The whole chapter is like this. Other than the Malkavian chapter and the weirdly metaplot-reliant Assamites, the rest of the book ranges from boring and pointless to interesting but a rehash. You're not going to find the definitive statement on any clan here. The combination disciplines are neat, but some clans are shafted. The Merits and Flaws are mostly reprints. It doesn't go full White Wolf, but it's not outstanding new material.
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Apr 13, 2015 06:22
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The Assamite and Malkavian revised clanbooks were pretty great, so I guess I'll stay with those instead.
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Apr 13, 2015 06:47
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Oh god, and the comment section of that piece of fiction is already full of praise. I feel like a golden age is just slipping through my fingers, and all that I can do is look at it longingly as it circles down the drain.
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Apr 13, 2015 06:58
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paradoxGentleman posted:Oh god, and the comment section of that piece of fiction is already full of praise. Oh for God's sake, it's some pretty bad prose but looking at it and declaring that the golden age of elfgames is dead is putting the cart about ten miles in front of the horse, especially after Demon and how hyped everybody in here was getting for Dark Ages. Now, when Beast comes out or has its Kickstarter and it all turns out to be wall-to-wall edgelord dreck, sure, we can start doomsaying.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:21
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Daeren posted:Oh for God's sake, it's some pretty bad prose but looking at it and declaring that the golden age of elfgames is dead is putting the cart about ten miles in front of the horse, especially after Demon and how hyped everybody in here was getting for Dark Ages. I know, I know, sorry for being overdramatic. But I am worried that seeing a wall of praise in front of their opening fiction is going to encourage Onyx Path to go straight down that road with no brakes.
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Apr 13, 2015 07:27
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Daeren posted:Oh for God's sake, it's some pretty bad prose but looking at it and declaring that the golden age of elfgames is dead is putting the cart about ten miles in front of the horse, especially after Demon and how hyped everybody in here was getting for Dark Ages. he's right though, the fact that this is being written an submitted for public approval in the first place, let alone the immediate public approval, cannot be denied as a sign of things to come
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Apr 13, 2015 08:23
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Well, I guess I must be Edgey Mc Edgerston, because I thought it was a neat little snippet, but I've been pretty interested in Beast since the gencon announcment.
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Apr 13, 2015 08:26
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tatankatonk posted:Marian Apparition (*) Finally a buff to Vampire Menses!
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Apr 13, 2015 08:29
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Soonmot posted:Well, I guess I must be Edgey Mc Edgerston, because I thought it was a neat little snippet, but I've been pretty interested in Beast since the gencon announcment. It's a power fantasy, of the sort that teenagers enjoy. This coupled with their reluctance to describe Heroes as anything more than "those jerks you have to beat up because they don't understand you" is vaguely worrying, because if Beast is meant to be aimed at that crowd exclusively it could be pretty limited in scope. There is nothing necessarily wrong with that, but it's not the sort of thing a lot of people were hoping Beast would be. It's early to make a judgement call on the whole line, but the potential for an unsatisfying product is there.
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Apr 13, 2015 09:22
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Ferrinus posted:The mage looks down at his hands, puzzled and dismayed. Across the room, his smirking vampire nemesis pulls his hand out of his pocket, revealing the penknife he was holding onto the entire time. All Powerful Lancea members now carry a battle-axe slung across their back, just in case. tatankatonk posted:
yes! yes!
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Apr 13, 2015 10:59
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Are the same people who worked on Demon working on Beast? I would feel better if I knew that that game is in those capable hands.
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Apr 13, 2015 11:35
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I don't really care that it's power fantasy. What is interesting to me is how the setting reacts to the character's anger. Sea water begins to seep into the room. The kid had sucker marks in a spot where she didn't touch him. How much of an afgevt do beasts have on reality?
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Apr 13, 2015 13:40
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paradoxGentleman posted:Are the same people who worked on Demon working on Beast? I would feel better if I knew that that game is in those capable hands. Rose Bailey is heavily involved. Matt McFarland is running Beast; he and Rose were the developers on Demon. Writers on Demon were Dave Brookshaw, N. Conte, Susann Hessen, David A. Hill Jr, Alec Humphrey, Danielle Lauzon, Michelle Lyons-McFarland, Matt McFarland, Mark Stone, Travis Stout, Stew Wilson and Eric Zawadzki. Could not tell you how many of them are on Beast, but Rose and Matt have a history of quality product.
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Apr 13, 2015 13:55
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I feel like trying to suss mechanical signifiers out of a piece of intro fiction instead of tonal signifiers is a fool's errand, personally.
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Apr 13, 2015 13:56
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I'm a monster, hooray! Is how 70% of we games go, and the rest are Mage. Now that play style's actually supported. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 14:27 on Apr 13, 2015 |
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Apr 13, 2015 14:03
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I also feel you can't actually make any claims at all about what play styles Beast supports based on a piece of broadly-sketched intro fiction and a super-vague mission statement. Especially if for some reason you don't think Werewolf or Vampire's similarly overarching mission statements don't support "I'm a monster, yay."
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Apr 13, 2015 14:11
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Also to clarify, that looks more like maybe a chapter opener. The actual gameline intro fiction pieces are like several pages long.
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Apr 13, 2015 14:16
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Daeren posted:Now, when Beast comes out or has its Kickstarter and it all turns out to be wall-to-wall edgelord dreck, sure, we can start doomsaying. If you're at all interested, a leak of Beast was posted on 4chan's /tg/'s World of Darkness General a few days - maybe a week or two - ago. It has multiple full fluff chapters, intact rules, and so forth. I'd recommend tracking it down if you're interested in seeing the quality of the line, barring future major revisions.
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Apr 13, 2015 14:22
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I would have zero problems with Beast as an analogue for teenage power fantasy if that is the feel they are going for, along with overlays of mythology. Alienation, bullying, and externalizing "bad" parts of yourself as a monster are all interesting themes to me. Choosing that particular fiction to debut on to me indicates this is what we should expect, so I can't imagine these themes are not intentional. The tone of some the responses from the developers have made me not sure if it's being approached without some sense of detachment. The defensiveness is weird to me, and makes me anxious to see what comes of it.
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Apr 13, 2015 14:23
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I have become less critical of Beast's fiction and otherwise iffy presentation to this point. Part of that is that it is very easy to denigrate games with a pithy example of gameplay- Vampire: the pedophile ring game, Werewolf: the southern revanchism game, Changeling: the abuse survivor game, Promethean: the homeless autistic game. Beast being described as the teenaged otherkin outcast game is not yet a great retort to the game-as-played.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:15
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Yeah, I'm with Gerund. All we have to go on is a bit of fiction and some snarky forum posts. So far we have next to nothing from the actual book. Beast's Kickstarter should be next in the chute after Lore of the Clans, so even discounting the blogs we'll be getting, the whole thing will be up probably mid-to-late May. Also here's something from the OPP Forums: Matthew McFarland posted:So, fun fact: I actually wrote that bit a long time ago, as part of the original pitch for Beast. It doesn't appear in the book, although I like Eve and if we do an anthology I may write a story about her. But when I did that post for the blog, I had to read through that fiction bit and think, "OK, now that the rules are written, can you actually do this stuff?" So there's that, too.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:35
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Antonio could only nod. And then everyone stood up and clapped. The handsome student teacher finally noticed her, and they fell in love and are still together to this day. Beast might be an interesting game for the right group, but good luck finding that group because teen revenge powertrip otherkin fantasy is goddamn catnip for wrong groups. Even if the game turns out to be the mechanically best Onyx Path offering, it seems like it's headed in the wrong direction for me - and entirely the right direction for people I never want to sit at a table with again.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:35
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You sure can read a lot into things from a single snippet of fiction from a sales pitch. Back when Demon wasn't out yet, I thought I was going to hate it - all the teasers and so on made it sound like the technological aspect was going to override the occultism completely, like it'd be playing the Matrix except vampires live there, too. I was dogging on it to my friends, and the tone of the teasers rarely helped. Then it came out and it's one of my favorite games now. Calm your rear end, man.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:54
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moths posted:Even if the game turns out to be the mechanically best Onyx Path offering, it seems like it's headed in the wrong direction for me - and entirely the right direction for people I never want to sit at a table with again. Yeah. but that seems to be a working as intended deal. All of the new editions seem to follow the base premise of, "These are games made for people with adult, competent, groups." Open games, pickup games, or games with internal group issues are not the target audience. On one hand this frees you up a lot to not have to worry about universal balance or the like, on the other sometimes it seems like a cosmic event to have a full table of adults where you don't have to auto-balance at the table.
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Apr 13, 2015 16:59
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