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I feel like when your "like the protagonist type except More and Worse" antagonist-type has to escalate to "makes people egg-pregnant and forms arson cults" you should take a step back and see where you've set your baseline.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:41
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I think my favorite part is that the only real difference between Insatiables and Heroes appears to be tat Insatiable powers are actually mechanically dangerous.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:47
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I feel like when your "like the protagonist type except More and Worse" antagonist-type has to escalate to "makes people egg-pregnant and forms arson cults" you should take a step back and see where you've set your baseline. If you know and accept that the baseline is absolutely monstrous, like Vampire, that's one thing. But BHM really, really wants Beasts to be the protagonists.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:48
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Kurieg posted:Because if an Insatiable ends up sitting around for too long they unleash Mega Ultra Disquiet Hyper Fighting Edition EX ++
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Jan 12, 2017 01:47
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Kavak posted:If you know and accept that the baseline is absolutely monstrous, like Vampire, that's one thing. But BHM really, really wants Beasts to be the protagonists.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:50
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Seems like they could have done a thing where the gross egg-pooping fungus mutants are what children of the dark mother look like by default, and it's rare humans who manage to confront or master them astrally rather than get devoured bind and reshape them into the forms of griffins, dragons, sea monsters, or other photogenic monsters.
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Jan 12, 2017 01:50
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See, that'd actually be Good, and as we all know, this is beast. It'd even lend itself to a retooling where player Beasts aren't irredeemable monsters they currently are but are one step removed from those monsters by possessing that lingering piece of human experience (obviously by dialing down the whole 'oh hey it's Abuse: the Gamening' aspect) - and that's why they're so rabidly set against the True Children (in addition to 'please stop trying to eat us' and 'this is my feeding ground'), who have no such softening element towards what they perceive as either a natural threat or natural prey. They wouldn't have to be the ones being dreadfully abusive either - they can just, y'know, eat people outright or tear them open to fill their bellies with thousands of glistening eggs etc. Maybe they can't even comprehend that humanity is sentient. It can even tie Beast better into the God Machine mythos, which it more or less isn't. Mankind as a product of the God Machine, the True Children purely spawned by the older, pre-Structured Dark Mother, and the Beasts caught in the middle on both an existential and a moral level sets up all sorts of natural conflicts and explains why Beasts and Demons hate each other as an instinctive response, but can overcome that. The Demon is still programmed to see a Beast and think 'raw chaos made manifest in reality, CLEANSE AND PURGE', but between their free will from their slavery and the human element of the PC beast weakening the response it can deescalate from immediate violence. Meanwhile, the Angels are still going to have that response, and Demons are probably still going to hate the True Children since they'll bring down all kinds of trouble in their neighborhoods in the forms of Angel sterilization teams and long-term 'correction' of whatever esoteric geometries both permitted the Demon to hide and the True Children to emerge there. In turn, you can add in why Werewolves are disposed well to Beasts according to the base texts - the Beast is no longer a massive source of spiritual suffering and disruption, but a preventative factor that might spawn one or two bad spirits here and there, but the tradeoff is against having a sentient swarm of crab-things lurking in the sewer with a guaranteed nexus of all kinds of bad juju forming around them, culminating in the birth of a True Child surrounded by a swarm of very hostile spiritual entities.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:16
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One of the sample incarnate beasts is an incarnate because his horror sunk the titanic SUNK THE TITANIC
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Jan 12, 2017 02:17
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I think you're missing the true, amazing beauty of the dude who shits eggs out his penis and if you eat the eggs you also poo poo eggs out your penis
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Jan 12, 2017 02:18
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Eat the eggs, Smashmouth.
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Jan 12, 2017 02:41
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Fun fact about the Titanic-Murdering Snake it has Strength 5 and no Brawl or Weaponry dots. (And no Firearms dots for its Dex of 7, but there is nothing there to suggest it'd use guns anyway.) It can't reliably hit a starting PC. E: it does, however, have Presence 8 and Striking Looks 1. the sexiest snake Mors Rattus fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 02:44
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Mors Rattus posted:Fun fact about the Titanic-Murdering Snake It doesn't have to hit a starting PC--it had to hit a ship. How many Strength dots does an iceberg have?
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Jan 12, 2017 02:50
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The insatiables special insatiable only powers are called Esurients Hungries
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Jan 12, 2017 02:50
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hungry hungry hippos, they're in an eating race
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Jan 12, 2017 02:51
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Kurieg posted:
"You know what's really scary? Gamer girls except not pretty."
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Jan 12, 2017 03:04
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Whoa, that was a quick name change for the thread.
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Jan 12, 2017 03:25
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I like how all of these would be an I guess okay but poorly done (at best) antagonist in some rando's game at home but somehow we're supposed to spend money on this. Like, the best case for this was some stuff to mine for better games than Beast and we got what I'd be pretty regretful about making while half-drunk on a smoke break cause my players wanted to keep playing after my actual ideas were gone. gently caress.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:33
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Mors Rattus posted:Fun fact about the Titanic-Murdering Snake Now, let's be fair: Titanic-Murdering Snake makes it possible for us to have a capable but still mortal martial artist completely make a chump out of a monster able to sink a cruise liner. This is basically a Steven Seagal movie in CofD form.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:42
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Oh, you can't hurt it, it has Defense 11 and Armor 10. It just can't hurt you either.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:48
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Sure am glad that Defense ranges from 1 to 10 before you even add superpowers now.
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Jan 12, 2017 06:49
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I'm so very glad I'm running mage and none of my players have likely ever heard of Beast. I've decided that they most definitely do not exist in my universe. This is worse than BvD and that picture in the Montreal by Night book (you know the one, I'm not looking it up for you).
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Jan 12, 2017 06:54
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The one nice thing about Beast is that you can carve out the guts of the game and steal mechanics to make for some pretty sweet Horrors to use in other games. Every Atavism is basically a Dread Power, as is every Nightmare. Just take out the good meat and throw out the rotten bones.Mors Rattus posted:Oh, you can't hurt it, it has Defense 11 and Armor 10. Not actually true; there are martial arts/weapon styles that let characters hit anyone who starts their turn off within range, regardless of defense, and which turn unarmed attacks into lethal ones. Also, no armour is perfect; you always take at least one bashing level from any hit that does lethal damage. It becomes possible for a martial artist to just kinda slowly pummel the monster into submission in the manner of an elephant seal; wearing them down through sheer bloody-minded attrition.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:06
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I've kind of wavered myself between Beasts existing, but being universally accepted by the supernatural community as horrible, horrible things to be hunted/killed, and them flat-out not existing in my World of Darkness.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:07
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A few years before BtP was a thing, I ran a Changeling scenario that centered around a homebrew antagonist monster that I described as "a nightmare made real." It was based on the Corinthian from Sandman but if I ran it again today I would make it a Beast, they hit the same notes. There's also a lurking NPC in my current LA Mage game that's basically the Mystery Man from Lost Highway as a Beast, although I haven't had to break out stats for him yet. The core idea of a dream monster in human skin that's drawn to nightmares and places of trauma is a good one for my game. I'm presenting it more as "lone creature lurking in the shadows" than "member of complex family-based society" though.
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Jan 12, 2017 07:33
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Kellsterik posted:A few years before BtP was a thing, I ran a Changeling scenario that centered around a homebrew antagonist monster that I described as "a nightmare made real." It was based on the Corinthian from Sandman but if I ran it again today I would make it a Beast, they hit the same notes. Ultimately pathetic half-creatures convinced they're far more grand and terrible than they actually are, before being casually unmade by something tired of their poo poo? 
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Jan 12, 2017 07:34
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Daeren posted:Ultimately pathetic half-creatures convinced they're far more grand and terrible than they actually are, before being casually unmade by something tired of their poo poo? Well, it actually ended up wiping the PCs in a big Hedge brawl before we got to that last bit, but basically yeah! I'm kinda proud of the scenario, the real problem was the Freehold of a dying small town falling apart because no one cares enough to fix it, and then this completely unrelated monster shows up at the worst possible time. It's a dangerous threat, but it isn't actually the star, the underlying issue is deeper than a monster of the week. It ended up being an organic and climactic enough ending to be fun. Every now and then it's fun to reinforce the horror mood of the setting by being able to say to full-template supernatural characters "you did not succeed, sorry. you have been eaten by a grue."
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Jan 12, 2017 08:46
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Jhet posted:I'm so very glad I'm running mage and none of my players have likely ever heard of Beast. I've decided that they most definitely do not exist in my universe. This is worse than BvD and that picture in the Montreal by Night book (you know the one, I'm not looking it up for you). BvD at least was so incredibly over the top and dark that it spun back around to being hilarious in that "What the gently caress is wrong with you people." sort of way. Plus, they actually did something as horrific as BvD right in Requiem. The whole point of the Requiem/Damnation City version of BvD was that the guy responsible for it ended up being murdered in the end for being an evil poo poo by the Prince. It's pretty clear that even the characters in universe that are at least marginally sane are disgusted by BvD and the psychopath that came up with the idea. And like all the stories in the book it turns out it's a story about how willful monstrosity degrades and destroys everyone in the end. These violent delights have violent ends and all. From what i've read of impressions of the Beast core book so far this poo poo is just depressing in how badly it's built mechanically, occasionally tries to justify the monstrous protagonists literally wishing they were wholesale turbo-monsters, and even comes off every now and then like the author is projecting some really weird and offensive societal views on the world. Crasical posted:I've kind of wavered myself between Beasts existing, but being universally accepted by the supernatural community as horrible, horrible things to be hunted/killed, and them flat-out not existing in my World of Darkness. I can't imagine that any supernaturals that were widely aware of them would be tolerant of them if they had a full picture of what they were about. Like, I could picture even the Circle of the Crone just turning their noses up at those poser Beast's when they get into their whole "Dark Mother" spiel. Individual cases where things worked out nicely could work, sure. But they come off as preaching what most other monsters want to avoid being for what are wholly correct and sane reasons. Archonex fucked around with this message at 13:47 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 11:38
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Archonex posted:From what i've read of impressions of the Beast core book so far this poo poo is just depressing in how badly it's built mechanically, occasionally tries to justify the monstrous protagonists literally wishing they were wholesale turbo-monsters, and even comes off every now and then like the author is projecting some really weird and offensive societal views on the world.
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Jan 12, 2017 14:57
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The more I learn about Beast, the more I think a good litmus test for evaluating other nerds is simply "Do you think Revenge of the Nerds was a documentary?". Because there is a subset who really do seem to think that there is this hard division of people who like mainstream things and those that like geeky things, that the former are actively and deliberately tormenting the latter, and that as such rabid hatred and complex revenge fantasies are totally justifiable on the part of nerdy folk. Some people are so tribalized that they just can't seem to grasp the idea that one might like watching football AND pretending to be an elf.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:30
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I could absolutely see reading Beast and wanting to play the game where you are something sort of like Claimed for an astral nightmare realm, expressions of the fears of the universal unconscious given body in the real world. I could absolutely see reading Beast and wanting to play the game there.....just not as is. The Astral is such a massive thing that basically nobody but Mages gets to play with. I mean a bunch of people can mess with the Shadow, or Underworld, or get into the Hedge, but pretty much nobody but Mages does much to the Astral. Another game line touching on aspects of it is a cool idea. Pity what we got there though.
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Jan 12, 2017 15:36
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The thing that annoys me the most about this is that the Insatiables read like BHM's lovely high school fanfiction about Goku VanSephiroth, who's even more badass and amazing than everyone else. But mechanically they fall into the same trap as Heroes where they aren't actually a threat to Beasts unless they've merced some weaker Beasts offscreen due to DM Fiat. Insatiables are constantly treated as if they had undergone the Merger, which increases their stats and power based on how many lair dots they have. Except Insatiables don't natively have any lair dots, or atavisms, they have to steal them from other Beasts. And the dice pool for pulling off that feat is so hideously skewed in the Beast's Favor unless the Insatiable has already taken over another Beast's lair and used those dots to pump their strength. Without lair dots the only effect a lair 0 Insatiable gets is that they lose a point of satiety each day And most of their powers are so hideously expensive that every insatiable must have a body count that would make a Slasher nauseous. Oh and every 24 hours they go without visiting their stolen lair complex(which costs Satiety) one of their chambers (and the associated lair dot) go back to their original owner if they're still alive.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:04
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I've said it before, but in addition to being utterly disgusting, Beast is basically like watching someone fall off the wagon and go full 90s WW again.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:09
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Probably the most hilarious bit is the Blind Man(who isn't actually blind) Who's written like a fairly bog standard horror movie trope until you get towards the end and you find out that he can clench his abs and poo poo eggs out of his dick that make it so that anybody who eats the eggs will also poo poo eggs out of their dick and he's doing this because he thinks that if enough people start making GBS threads eggs out of their dick it will bring back the Progenitor who's their ultra badass patron who's so amazing and badass that he hosed the dark mother. I feel like that entire paragraph should just have a giant red C through it and "SEE ME AFTER CLASS" written in the margin.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:14
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Kurieg posted:Probably the most hilarious bit is the Blind Man(who isn't actually blind) Who's written like a fairly bog standard horror movie trope until you get towards the end and you find out that he can clench his abs and poo poo eggs out of his dick that make it so that anybody who eats the eggs will also poo poo eggs out of their dick and he's doing this because he thinks that if enough people start making GBS threads eggs out of their dick it will bring back the Progenitor who's their ultra badass patron who's so amazing and badass that he hosed the dark mother. I'm failing to see how people eat the eggs. Is this some Contendings of Horus and Set stuff where he hides it in their salad.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:16
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Night10194 posted:I'm failing to see how people eat the eggs. Maybe they are Cadbury Eggs.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:17
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Night10194 posted:I'm failing to see how people eat the eggs. they look and taste like Caviar apparently.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:19
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Night10194 posted:I'm failing to see how people eat the eggs. Apparently, he passes it off as caviar/roe  e: f,b
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Jan 12, 2017 16:20
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Kurieg posted:Probably the most hilarious bit is the Blind Man(who isn't actually blind) Who's written like a fairly bog standard horror movie trope until you get towards the end and you find out that he can clench his abs and poo poo eggs out of his dick that make it so that anybody who eats the eggs will also poo poo eggs out of their dick and he's doing this because he thinks that if enough people start making GBS threads eggs out of their dick it will bring back the Progenitor who's their ultra badass patron who's so amazing and badass that he hosed the dark mother. So while you're on the book, what's the Progenitor all about? The idea of there being two big monster makers in the setting that monsters can trace their roots back is interesting to me. Is that how it's played out?
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Jan 12, 2017 16:24
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Archonex posted:So while you're on the book, what's the Progenitor all about? Are you asking if it's played out in a way that's interesting? No, of course it's loving not. It's something that's even more mysterious and poorly understood than the dark mother. Which basically means all we get are even more cryptic myths except for the one where he totally hosed the Dark Mother. Supposedly it's what created the Insatiables, and the Primordial Dream doesn't immediately reject them the way it probably should considering they're basically walking hunger holes that turn the area surrounding them into a small apocalypse.
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Jan 12, 2017 16:27
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Kurieg posted:Are you asking if it's played out in a way that's interesting? So what? They're basically void related monsters? The funniest thing about all this to me is that the more I hear about this the more I think that this game would have done better as some sort of retarded mortal tier spin off book for Exalted 3E where you play as the poor monsters that get ripped apart by early level Exalt's. Not that 3E is that good at the moment either, what with toning down the power levels and somehow still making the mechanics of playing it a headache. Titanic sinking sexy snake monsters versus cosmic kung fu super-gods is at least theoretically fun as a concept and helps overlook the general terribleness of it all. It'd at least make people confused about whether the terrible parts were supposed to be a parody or actually serious. Plus, some of the poo poo i'm reading about fits in there far better than it does NWOD/CofD thematically. Exalted's crazy enough that some of this poo poo would just elicit a "Meh." from the fan base. Archonex fucked around with this message at 16:38 on Jan 12, 2017 |
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Jan 12, 2017 16:30
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